HAL's Tipping Policy

[hammybee]

Another thing that I most certainly do believe that HAL and probably most cruise lines do is the meeting immediately after we disembark with all the Dining Room Stewards reading out which stewards/tables had tips removed. First off I do not find this degrading in any way. This is actually a common thing in many work places. I work for a Automobile Dealership. Every Friday we have a sales meeting with the staff and manager and the sales force must annouce what they have sold for the week. They are also divided into teams and we most always have some type of contest or incentive going on. The team that is loosing is annouced right in front of everyone and those at the bottom that are pulling them down are all questioned why they are not pulling their weight. I think those of you that are offended by that practice have not been out in the sales world. The ships is no different they are selling a product and the crew's main income souce is tips that are pooled. If my livelyhood is coming down by a fellow employee I would want to know about it. I would also want to prove I can be the best.

 

Lisa, This is a good analogy. Anyone in Sales needs to know where they stand versus the others and is no stranger to humiliation.

[ponte]

“LOL”

 

 

Good grief, I have been reading this thread with amazement.

 

 

I just want to go on holiday and have a peaceful restful vacation with a good book and pleasant company and not worry unduly about who to tip and who not to tip.

 

 

I certainly hope that I am not seated next to a couple of the more authoritarian types among you in the Pinnacle Grill. "LOL"

 

 

 

Ponte

[peaches from georgia]

A good incentive program can be accomplished without humiliating or demeaning any employee.

[hammybee]

“LOL”

 

 

Good grief, I have been reading this thread with amazement.

I just want to go on holiday and have a peaceful restful vacation with a good book and pleasant company and not worry unduly about who to tip and who not to tip. I certainly hope that I am not seated next to a couple of the more authoritarian types among you in the Pinnacle Grill. "LOL"

 

Ponte

 

Oh come on now. Does it get better than this? Where else can you find international drama, intrigue, deception, upheaval, healing and cow's milk on one plate?

 

Ponte, You are going to be just fine. Put all of this behind you and enjoy your cruise. And let us know how it turns out.

[dakrewser]

A good incentive program can be accomplished without humiliating or demeaning any employee.

 

And I can't find any post which says that people are humiliated or demeaned.

 

Some people have stated that the mere reading out of the "decline" documents is demeaning (it's not) but that's only in their minds, not in the actual practice.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Ponte:) , I'm with you! And the good news is you won't think of any of this when you're on your cruise. I certainly know I don't.

 

I think Hammybee's post is interesting information, but I have to admit it's the last thing I think about when I take a cruise. In fact, if I did I'm quite sure it would ruin the entire trip for me.

 

There is such a thing as "too much information" and in this new age of cyberspace and 24/7 news, I think we are definitely getting way more information than I want or need.

 

It's sort of like reading the ingredients package on the back of a Stouffers Dinner Entree. If you can still eat the thing after reading that, you're a lot tougher than I am:D .

[hammybee]

It's sort of like reading the ingredients package on the back of a Stouffers Dinner Entree. If you can still eat the thing after reading that, you're a lot tougher than I am:D .

 

Most excellent point. Imagine sitting at your table and while you are eating, reading about the trace elements contained in your dinner. No thank you.

[Grumpy1]

And I can't find any post which says that people are humiliated or demeaned.

 

Some people have stated that the mere reading out of the "decline" documents is demeaning (it's not) but that's only in their minds, not in the actual practice.

I'm with you, Dave. Part of the problem might be the perception that the crew are a meek and mild mannered, very sensitive bunch that would be easily offended and/or humiliated. Having observed some of the crew members when they are in port, I think most of them are very self-assured and confident. It's likely that they have fun with some of the comment cards, as the steward that may have been wrongly singled out by a passenger isn't the only one that knows that the passenger in question is a nut. His boss probably knows, too. They also know the ones among them that are truly deserving of bad comments and WILL apply peer pressure to help them shape up, and that, IMHO, is a good thing. These are not children with fragile psyche that we must be careful to not bruise. These are grown men and women doing a tough job. They sometimes need an ego boost and sometimes need to have a big ego shattered, just like the rest of us.

[hammybee]

I'm with you, Dave. Part of the problem might be the perception that the crew are a meek and mild mannered, very sensitive bunch that would be easily offended and/or humiliated. Having observed some of the crew members when they are in port, I think most of them are very self-assured and confident. It's likely that they have fun with some of the comment cards, as the steward that may have been wrongly singled out by a passenger isn't the only one that knows that the passenger in question is a nut. His boss probably knows, too. They also know the ones among them that are truly deserving of bad comments and WILL apply peer pressure to help them shape up, and that, IMHO, is a good thing. These are not children with fragile psyche that we must be careful to not bruise. These are grown men and women doing a tough job. They sometimes need an ego boost and sometimes need to have a big ego shattered, just like the rest of us.

 

Thank you wise men, Dave and Grumpy. Perhaps it's called perspective.

[ponte]

Oh come on now. Does it get better than this? Where else can you find international drama, intrigue, deception, upheaval, healing and cow's milk on one plate?

 

Ponte, You are going to be just fine. Put all of this behind you and enjoy your cruise. And let us know how it turns out.

 

Too funny. OK, I could be persuaded to sit beside you.

 

Ponte

[AAAAmerican]

Which seating? Upper ? Lower?

 

Remember she is the Second Female Catian in HALs history. And the ms HammyDam is a Worldcruise vessel...:cool:

 

I hope she commands the new ship too, the ms ZeeDam..its Zee:confused: best Dam ship coming...

 

Too funny. OK, I could be persuaded to sit beside you.

 

Ponte

[AAAAmerican]

Double vision.. oh well Anchors away mates...

[serendipity1499]

I'm with you, Dave. Part of the problem might be the perception that the crew are a meek and mild mannered, very sensitive bunch that would be easily offended and/or humiliated. Having observed some of the crew members when they are in port, I think most of them are very self-assured and confident. It's likely that they have fun with some of the comment cards, as the steward that may have been wrongly singled out by a passenger isn't the only one that knows that the passenger in question is a nut. His boss probably knows, too. They also know the ones among them that are truly deserving of bad comments and WILL apply peer pressure to help them shape up, and that, IMHO, is a good thing. These are not children with fragile psyche that we must be careful to not bruise. These are grown men and women doing a tough job. They sometimes need an ego boost and sometimes need to have a big ego shattered, just like the rest of us.

 

Dave & Grumpy...I hate to beat a dead horse but, perhaps you should read Jim Gallup's Post # 18 of this thread..

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=422867

 

Would love to hear both of your & other posters views of this post...I honestly don't think it was just me that considers this to be humiliation of the staff... Many other posters were just as horrified as I was to read this statement & the fact that he considers this to be one of his favorite moments blows my mind..Quote "One of my favorite moments of the cruise happens after all of you have disembarked." Unquote

 

If this is true, even if the sevice was rotten I could never reduce our tips as I would hate to see anyone treated this way..:( I also believe that a Good Manager should think about what this type of action could do to push a crew member off the deep end...Even some grown men have fragile psyches..That is one very important thing that most good Managers are supposed to think about..

 

Betty..

 

P.S. In Post 20 (same thread) he states he does not know if HAL does it this way as he does not work for HAL..

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Betty, I just do not see what you see in this being so very bad. Having worked in a car dealership for almost 12 year and being a manager and the only women manager. I too enjoy a similiar type of thing. All I can say is that you obviously have never worked in sales or where you work as a team. There is absolutely nothing degrading or humilating about it. You may be very surprised of just how many businesses operate pretty much the same way and YES use this as motivation.

I think it is now time to let this poor dead horse rest in peace.:)

[Grumpy1]

Betty...The post you reference is exactly the one that I was referring to, and I'm pretty sure Dave was, also. I think JG was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with his reference to capital punishment, but his point about peer pressure being a tremendous incentive is valid.

 

I stand by my comments in my post that you referenced. I do not see the treatment described as demeaning and humiliating. You are free to agree or disagree. What's the old saying? "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." What JG described is a way of quickly finding out who can take the heat and who can't and for some of the "fire-hardened" ones to help out their fellow workers.

 

The training from raw recruit to top notch waiter/steward has to be a very short time, considering the length of the contract. You do not achieve that degree of training, quickly, without the help, reinforcement and pressure of their peers.

 

Ask yourself... if the treatment is so terrible and demeaning, coupled with the incredibly long hours, why do so many keep coming back, contract after contract.

[HeatherInFlorida]

This is still way more information than I want or could ever possibly need. For some reason most of you love to read all about the deep recesses of what goes on behind the scenes on the ships.

 

I don't. I pay good money to go on a cruise to have fun, meet wonderful new friends, be treated royally by some awfully good people and relax.

 

How or what motivates these individuals to be nice to me just puts a damper on the whole thing.

 

Thank heaven much of what I read here is left back home when I embark. I wouldn't even visit here anymore if it weren't for the more joyful parts of this board. I just have to be more careful to pick and choose what I read here.

[serendipity1499]

Ok Grumpy...I guess we have different ideas about teamwork & incentives & yes, I can agree to disagree..

 

Laffinvegas ...I got a good laugh out of your post about it being obvious that I never worked in Sales..:D It's obvious that you and I disagree on Management styles of handling staff, but your observation of my experience is totally incorrect..

 

I retired from a major European Airline after 30 years in Sales... I taught Telephone Sales Classes & my final job was, "Telephone Sales Manager"...I managed 70 agents & supervisors and understand what team work is all about! I also was one of the first Women in N.Y. to become a Sales Manager..

 

But, you are correct in one thing, it's time to put this dead horse to rest..Cheers everyone..Betty

[Sunshine91]

Oh come on now. Does it get better than this? Where else can you find international drama, intrigue, deception, upheaval, healing and cow's milk on one plate?

 

And here I thought this was the tipping thread. Tipping a cow maybe? :D

 

Good grief this thread has gotten more melodramatic than a soap opera. Where's RuthC? Oh that's right, she's on the SpamDam. :)

 

Ponte - You're very welcome. Go with your heart & enjoy your cruise.

[Copper10-8]

Got milk?;)

[HeatherInFlorida]

..................

Laffinvegas ...I got a good laugh out of your post about it being obvious that I never worked in Sales..:D It's obvious that you and I disagree on Management styles of handling staff, but your observation of my experience is totally incorrect..

 

I retired from a major European Airline after 30 years in Sales... I taught Telephone Sales Classes & my final job was, "Telephone Sales Manager"...I managed 70 agents & supervisors and understand what team work is all about! I also was one of the first Women in N.Y. to become a Sales Manager................

 

Promise I'm not beating the horse:) , but Betty's statement proves a very important point ..... We don't know each other or what we have accomplished in our lives.

 

This is just one more reason that assuming something about someone simply does not work. The fact that someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they have no experience in the area. Certain the area of sales could be discussed all day ... what works and doesn't work. My guess is many of us would not agree.

 

Lisa is one of the nicest, most helpful people on this board and I'm sure she meant no disrespect of Betty. It's just not her nature to be like that. But we get heated in our discussions sometimes and say things we probably wouldn't say face to face.

 

So we'll all take a deep breath and regroup:) . Sunshine is right ... what happened to the tipping discussion???:o I think we're done with that, too.

[gizmo]

Got milk?;)

 

Cow's milk or AAA's Goat milk ?:D

[sail7seas]

See......we even have different wants/needs when it comes to milk. :D

I want Soy Milk!!! :D :D

 

How in the world do we think we are all ever going to agree about the big three??? Tipping/dress code/freestyle dining vs traditional???

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

See......we even have different wants/needs when it comes to milk. :D

I want Soy Milk!!! :D :D

 

How in the world do we think we are all ever going to agree about the big three??? Tipping/dress code/freestyle dining vs traditional???

 

 

 

[hammybee]

Skim with chocolate for me, please.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Non-Fat Soy for me:D