HAL's Tipping Policy

[hammybee]

Hammybee, I have to be honest. I have not yet read that post. When posts get that long I admit I skim for "drift". Some are just too long and I don't have that kind of time:) .

 

So I picked up on the "theme" a bit later.

 

Heather,

 

Many posters do not read all the posts in a thread before they jump in.

[gizmo]

I am not going to take sides here but there are a couple of things to think about.

 

This is a public board and someone can portray themselves in a number of different ways.

 

Remember Vicar ? His posts went on for months. :rolleyes:

[hammybee]

Gee, and here I thought an efficient, polite steward was what I should be looking for. Who knew that "socializing" was part of their job????

 

No wonder service is slipping if people ave that attitude about what deserves a tip...

 

In most service positions, those who have the language and social skills to smooze tend to do better than those who work harder. Customers have a tendency to notice and reward those that appeal to them on an emotional level. Remembering your name, your drink, your family,a preference, whatever are skills but do not necessarily mean they are honed by the hardest working staff. There is a difference.

[hammybee]

I've avoided this thread up until now... I've read bits and pieces, but have now gone back to the beginning and read, not skimmed every post. What have I learned? I've learned that there are a lot of people that refuse to believe anything that anyone tells them. They have there own views of how things SHOULD be and read and respond to every post based on that view. I don't always agree with everything I've seen posted by JG, but on this thread I think he has given a fairly factual view of how thingsactually work onboard MOST ships (not all). He has clearly stated that there are exceptions. And it is clear to me that most of the people on this thread that sail in a lower category (not Class) of cabin fall within those exceptions. But just because the generalization does not apply to YOU, it is no less valid.. as a generalization.

 

It is pretty clear to me that the JG group is familiar with the facts and the numbers. I don't see him/them talking down to anyone. I see him trying to put out some factual information to try to correct some misconceptions and then being attacked because the facts don't fit with others view of how it SHOULD be..

 

I travel economy class more often than not. I did not feel JG was talking down to me. In fact, it made me feel special :) I am an exception to the generalization. I know it, and when I cruise, the crew I come in contact with, know it. I enjoy JG's posts. He is a very able writer and consistently shares truth and does so in a way to spark some controversy and dialog.

 

Censuring him or telling him or anyone else for that matter, how to post, seems to me, to be beyond the scope of this board. Those that doubt JG have the choice to reflect upon it or move on, if what they read challenges their perception.

[Hoyaheel]

Heather,

 

Many posters do not read all the posts in a thread before they jump in.

 

Knowing that doesn't make it any less annoying to read a post asking a question you just answered one post up;)

[hammybee]

Knowing that doesn't make it any less annoying to read a post asking a question you just answered one post up;)

 

Hoyahee:

 

So much in life can be annoying. Many,many posters on this and other boards have a tendency to not read the entire thread and/ or say things that might be considered annoying. Sometime it seems as if who is saying, is more important than what is being said. I can't control it. I choose not to take or make it personal. I choose to control what I can, what I say. That's enough of a challenge for me , at least :).

[HeatherInFlorida]

Heather,

 

Many posters do not read all the posts in a thread before they jump in.

 

Actually, Hammybee, I do read every post on a thread before I "jump in". It doesn't make sense to me not to. When I haven't read every single one, I say so. In the case of Kryos, I confess her posts are just too long for me to read completely because they're not broken up with paragraphs and my eyes swim on the page.

 

But I do read all the short posts and scan everything for meaning. One reason I really strive for brevity (and sometimes I'm not successful) is because I know people don't have the time to wade through too long a post.

 

Just so you know, the only reason I asked Rita that (and not to be nasty at all) is because I have noticed that I often post and 2 or 3 posts later she asks a question that is answered in a previous post. So I think it was a fair question to Rita.

 

John, yes that's the thread. But as I mentioned it's been mutilated. I still have the entire thread saved in Word before it was cut.

 

As to the rest of it, I'm now sorry I stood up for the posters who took exception JG's remarks about "pergatory", etc. I wasn't even speaking for myself because his remarks didn't apply to me. Everytime I do this, I'm the one that gets bashed and it's just not worth it to me anymore. Somehow I've noticed it rarely happens the other way around so why do I bother?

 

I have no idea. But it won't happen again.

 

P.S. BTW, I said I felt JG talked "at", not "down" ... at least I hope that's what I said. I've noticed that's what he generally does. I also did mention that people shouldn't talk down to people, but I wasn't referring to JG (or didn't mean to). Sorry if I did.

[hammybee]

Thanks for that info!;) Been looking at some old posts - not sure if we can find/read the ones that are locked

Been reading some of the older threads. Are you maybe referring to the "What exactly is leisure dining concept" thread where JG says: "Frequent Cruisers are not that special. They are great people who are usually on limited budgets. They have figured out all the angles to avoid spending excess money on a cruise. They generally purchase fewer photos, fewer shore excursions, fewer drinks, they gamble less, and they generally tip less - especially on longer cruises. In general, the mass market cruise industry realizes nearly 30% of it's income onboard. If you are not making your 30% contribution on your frequent cruises, the cruise industry doesn't want or need you. They just cannot afford you. Now you know why most Frequent Cruiser Programs are just shells of their former selves. The cruise lines would rather invest their money and resources in attracting novice cruisers who generally spend far more money and complain far less"

 

I remember this one and the blood bath that ensued. Generally speaking, I agree with most of it as it relates to me, sans the tipping thing. The more I cruise, the more I know. I have never spent as much as I did onboard as I did my first two cruises. Cruising is a business and the cruise lines need to make a profit and it makes sense that they would value new blood more than me. Competition for passengers is keen. That some cabins are sold at cost means that there is increased pressure for the passenger to spend, while on board.

 

I know that some posters prefer to not see references to the stock market on this board because of a belief it is not relevent to cruising. I look at it differently. That a cruise line is owned by the public is the reason I am able to cruise as frequently as I do. Most if not all of the acquired cruise lines were on the brink of financial disaster , when acquired. It was impossible to operate those lines like they had been, with all of their traditions intact and survive. Changes were made and in turn, the cost of cruising became more affordable to almost everyone, including me.

 

Cruise lines,like any business, operate at the primnary benefit of their shareholders, not passengers, unless they happen to be one in the same. Whether we like it or not, it is what makes this world go around.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Hoyahee:

............. Many,many posters on this and other boards have a tendency to not read the entire thread .................. I choose not to take or make it personal.......

 

Hammybee, whether or not you take it personally is not the issue. I can't imagine posting to a thread I have not read pretty much all the way through or at least the last 3 or so pages. It just doesn't make sense to me. How can you make an intelligent contribution if you don't know what's been said?

 

I'm quite sure that Rita didn't even see Grumpy's post bearing out my feelings on this because she only responded to me and not to him. This can be frustrating after a while.

 

I wouldn't go to my Book Review Club and put my 2 cents in if I haven't read the book.

 

Rita has posted she can't read the thread at work because of the system there. I don't know how that works, but I can see she has a problem. But there are many people here who post who have obviously not read the threads at all.

[peaches from georgia]

I can't imagine posting to a thread I have not read pretty much all the way through or at least the last 3 or so pages. It just doesn't make sense to me. How can you make an intelligent contribution if you don't know what's been said?

 

 

I wouldn't go to my Book Review Club and put my 2 cents in if I haven't read the book.

 

But there are many people here who post who have obviously not read the threads at all.

So agree, Heather. Some people also will answer a question that has been thoroughly answered in the post or several posts just above. It's almost like if they don't give the answer themselves it hasn't been properly answered, though often the question requires nothing more than a 'no' or 'yes' answer. Maybe they think other posters will think it's the correct answer only if they say it. If you know an answer is correct, why repeat it? ;)

[jtl513]

Knowing that doesn't make it any less annoying to read a post asking a question you just answered one post up;)

 

I'm a slow typist and admit to usually saying more than is necessary, so I often get "beaten out" on a very active thread. :D

[Grumpy1]

I'm a slow typist and admit to usually saying more than is necessary, so I often get "beaten out" on a very active thread. :D

Been there, done that:D

[Copper10-8]

Been there, done that:D

 

Wow, this thread has taken off!:eek:

Ever heard of the "one finger pecking" method? That's me! I have a bucket of water underneath my desk just in case my keyboard catches fire

[serendipity1499]

Betty, I believe John is right and the Jim Gallup group does work for HAL as an Officer. It was JG who said he/they are 3 people all posting under the same screen name. That's the only reason I ever mention it.

 

Also, I have often thanked JG for his very helpful and interesting posts. However, John, in this particular instance he definitely talked down to many people and did insult them ... not saying he meant to, but he did.

 

JGs have never said they worked for HAL here on the board, but it's been pretty well established that they do.

 

I'm as happy as many others to have the input from the "inside"; I just think the information could be given in a less offensive way.

 

Heather et al...I'm not sure I understand what you are saying as I'm only quoting Jim Gallup's post in the other thread....

 

The other thread (near the bottom of this main board) is entitled:

 

"A slightly different tipping Question etc." And in Post No. 28 the Jim Gallup who is the same one in this thread states...

 

Quote First, I'm not entirely sure that HAL does this. You would have to ask someone on a HAL ship. I do know that most if not all Mass Market Lines do it in some fashion. I have been on many mass market ships where several variations of what I described are done. Unquote etc etc.

 

If he worked for HAL, how can he make the above statement:confused: ..this leads me to believe he does not & has never worked for HAL, or why would he say.."I'm not entirely sure that HAL does this. You would have to ask someone on a HAL ship"

 

And since there is no signature at the end of Post no. 28 to indicate that it's a different person, I'm assuming he is the same poster .... Don't believe I'm confusing him with the JG group, whomever they are..But if there is more than one of them posting it would be nice to know which one I'm answering..:confused:

 

Anyway Heather just to change the subject a bit..The thread you started about amuzing incidents on board is wonderful & fun to read all the stories..:)

 

Grumpy & Hammybee you both have made good points..And you may be correct in your thinking that ship-board life is akin to Military Life..But these men are not fighting or protecting our country & I still don't agree that the right way to run a business is to humiliate people.. I've seen teams work very well together without humiliation! In the same thread Jim also states, that this is his favorite part of the meeting..That statement blew my mind....:(

 

I do respect the opinions of HAL Management People when they are commenting on HAL Policies..IMO generalizations about other companies should not be posted unless the poster makes it clear that he/she does (or Not) work for HAL..I believe that most people who have read this thread in it's entirety believe that Jim Gallup is speaking for HAL.. And that is not the case..He has worked other Mass Lines, but apparently not HAL..

 

Perhaps the Stewards working the lower decks are not the most experienced, but I still find it hard to believe that Our Wonderful HAL Stewards consider it to be "purgatory" working there...That's where generalizations can hurt people..JMO...Betty:)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Betty, I'll discuss this with you another time off the board:D .

 

But I've decided I'm done with this here. Everyone is relieved about that:) . My feelings about the postings of certain individuals have not changed nor will they ... I just think the subject has been exhausted.

 

I'm so glad you enjoyed the "stories" thread. Of course it didn't last long ... not enough controversy :)

 

My approach to CC will be quite different in the future.

[ponte]

Thank you, Sunshine 91 and New Mexico Nita for your help.

 

I can see that this tipping business is a contentious subject on this board.

 

It appears by skimming through the replies there is no hard and fast rule. I will therefore have to play it by ear.

 

I am not comfortable with being expected to tip all and sundry after a stipend to cover tipping has been added to my bill.

 

Please don’t think that I am Silas Marner reincarnate, it just seems to me that the Cruise Line is double dipping, if you get my drift.

 

 

 

Ponte

[HeatherInFlorida]

............... I will therefore have to play it by ear.

 

I am not comfortable with being expected to tip all and sundry after a stipend to cover tipping has been added to my bill.

 

............

 

Ponte, exactly right. I think playing by ear is a good plan. If you feel you want to tip extra, do so. If not, you're absolutely under no obligation to tip extra.

[AAAAmerican]

Your the one which has the personal choice no matter what anyones else opinion is, they are welcome to theres as you are yours.:eek:

 

The only expectation is other peoples .. :confused:

[LAFFNVEGAS]

One thing that did come out on this thread that I may consider is that I can increase the amount of my auto tip. I am one that when I get especially good service I will give extra to that person and definitely did so on last week's 4 day cruise to several special crew. I also believe that they do believe in team work and more than likely do give their money I give them back into the pool. Our son works in the restuarant business here in Vegas and like the ship most do all pool the tips together which is a common practice. I have learned now that the best way to help the crew is by either giving them high marks on the survey or by giving a note to the front desk or H/M of how I appreciated a particular crew member. I believe that is far more appreciated than just handing them money. Especially since they then have to deal with putting the money back into the pool. Another possiblilty is just to hand that crew member a Thank you Note and state that you increased your tip due to his excellent service.

Another thing that I most certainly do believe that HAL and probably most cruise lines do is the meeting immediately after we disembark with all the Dining Room Stewards reading out which stewards/tables had tips removed. First off I do not find this degrading in any way. This is actually a common thing in many work places. I work for a Automobile Dealership. Every Friday we have a sales meeting with the staff and manager and the sales force must annouce what they have sold for the week. They are also divided into teams and we most always have some type of contest or incentive going on. The team that is loosing is annouced right in front of everyone and those at the bottom that are pulling them down are all questioned why they are not pulling their weight. I think those of you that are offended by that practice have not been out in the sales world. The ships is no different they are selling a product and the crew's main income souce is tips that are pooled. If my livelyhood is coming down by a fellow employee I would want to know about it. I would also want to prove I can be the best. I could go on about casinos here in Vegas that dealers all pool their tokes together and trust me they know which dealers are not getting the high tokes and are not there that long although in many cases it is Lady Luck that gives them most of the higher tokes, along with a good personality.

I have found this tread over all informative and like I said I will most likely now just increase the Auto Tip, not only is it far more convenient for me not running around to pass out money on the last night/day. It also just adds to my air miles I am earning:)

[HeatherInFlorida]

................ Another possiblilty is just to hand that crew member a Thank you Note and state that you increased your tip due to his excellent service.

 

...................

 

I think this is very important, Lisa. If we're not going to give the extra directly to the crew member, I would still want them to know that I increased the tip because of their service specifically.

 

Am I right (and this may have been said, but at this point who remembers?;) ) that when you increase the autotip, it's just overall. I mean you might increase from $10/pppd to $15 or whatever.

 

So the person who led you to increase would not know the reason. That's really why wel give the extra tip directly to the crew member whether or not he ends up pooling it. At least he knows it's his service that is being rewarded.

[sail7seas]

Thank you, Heather. Yes. That is an important point. If we choose to tip additionally because of a particular person (or persons), I want them to know how much we appreciate the effort they put forth to make our cruise more enjoyable. We find the crews on HAL ships try so hard to make everyone as happy as they can that the best reward is a smile and a sincere thanks.....and a little extra cash. ;)

 

[dakrewser]

Hammybee, whether or not you take it personally is not the issue. I can't imagine posting to a thread I have not read pretty much all the way through or at least the last 3 or so pages. It just doesn't make sense to me. How can you make an intelligent contribution if you don't know what's been said?

 

careful Heather - I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but it appears you are saying that me and others like me (who don't always read everything that some people post) aren't capable of making an intelligent contribution...

 

It really isn't necessary to read every word (even you don't, by your own admission) to participate in a thread. And, frankly, I find most people here guilty at one time or another of mis-reading something.

[HeatherInFlorida]

careful Heather - I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but it appears you are saying that me and others like me (who don't always read everything that some people post) aren't capable of making an intelligent contribution...

 

It really isn't necessary to read every word (even you don't, by your own admission) to participate in a thread. And, frankly, I find most people here guilty at one time or another of mis-reading something.

 

Dave, you may have missed my post saying I'm done with this subject ... not going to push it around any longer because it always ends up in the same place anyway.

 

But just to clarify in case there's any confusion about my meaning. You are right ... I did not mean to suggest that you need to read every word, but I do think it should be pretty close. The only posts I don't read are the overly (IMO) long ones and AAA's (and that's only because I have tried but can't understand them). But even then, I definitely scan and get the drift of the post. If I don't do that I don't post and you may or may not notice I really don't post on that many threads.

 

Now that I will no longer be standing up for my friends and not-so-friends here, it will eliminate the problem. From now on I'm not going to be careful at all. I'm just going to say what I personally feel and that's that.

 

Finally learned my lesson .... just a little bit of a slow learner:)

[AAAAmerican]

Waffels I thought were just aboard the ships..>? :eek:

 

Did you tip your waffle server too with the compote ?

[hammybee]

Quote

 

Grumpy & Hammybee you both have made good points..And you may be correct in your thinking that ship-board life is akin to Military Life..But these men are not fighting or protecting our country & I still don't agree that the right way to run a business is to humiliate people.. I've seen teams work very well together without humiliation! JMO...Betty:)

 

Betty,

 

The Internet is full of stories about cruise ship culture, politics and labor problems. There are many reports of crew mafia that sponsor employees and take a percentage of what is earned from their people. There are stories of employees who believe that their sponsor owns the ship they work on. There are reports that some of the HAL Dutch officers operate ships as if Indonesia were still a colony. And lastly, there are reports of how cruise lines will not allow one ethnic group to dominate, to avoid labor problems. I have no idea what, if any, of this is true. But there is enough of it, over time, to strongly suggest it is a different world than what most of us are used to.

 

Knowing exactly where you stand verus the team, at the end of each run is vital. Short comings have to be addresed immediately because in a matter of a few short hours, a new cruise begins. There is no cooling off period. And despite the stakes being different, the closest thing this compares to, in my mind, is the military, where it's all about 24/7 teamwork. Individual rights, dignities and preferences bow to the team effort/result.

 

JG opens our eyes to some of the differences regardless if we agree with it, how it is delivered or which cruise line they work for. I am grateful for the opportunity. How about you?