Outrageous Paying For Soda

[bUU]

Yish! I never realized that the margins were that narrow in the cruise industry, Mark. That's a real eye-opener!

[Lyncruiser]

I can't believe how many people seem to think it's a good idea that RCCL charges for sodas now on the theory that they don't like them anyway, they aren't healthy, etc.

RCCL executives must be loving this exchange if they are reading it. They must be laughing in the exective dining room -- we knew our passengers could be duped into paying for sodas -- but duped into defending their right to pay for sodas? Now that's one for the books!!!

Are you all saying that RCCL should charge for each thing you don't like so that your cruise is cheaper? On that logic, there should be a surcharge if I eat lobster on formal night -- because not everyone likes lobster! Why should those who don't like it subsidize my lobster. It would be much more equitable if I paid extra for my lobster. Gees -- I'm having to pay a 3/4 passenger charge for my 4-month old and all she eats/drinks is formula. Why should I pay the same price for her cruise as a 3/4 person who eats on the ship eight times a day? All I'm really doing by paying her cruise fare is subsidizing those of you who choose to eat.

Desserts are very bad for your figure, teeth, etc. Why shouldn't RCCL charge extra if I decide to have a dessert -- or let my child have a dessert. They aren't good for me. Healthy people don't have them. Why should other passengers subsidize my sweet tooth -- or my bad parenting if I let my child have something sweet? Why should you have to subsidize my child's sugar high?

What about the shows? I like the shows and I go to them. Others don't. Why shouldn't there be a surcharge for each show I attend, and an extra charge for the ice show since it's really great? Why should those who don't go to the shows subsidize those who do?

By the same token, I hate the pool games, knobby knee contests, etc. Why should I subsidize an extra ship employee to conduct silly games at the pool?

Before long, it won't be a cruise. It will be a ship that you pay to get on. Then you pay for each and every thing you choose to eat, drink, participate in, look at, watch or notice. Ooops, I probably just gave the RCCL executives a great idea.

[momofmeg]

Sorry if I mispoke. the last RCCL cruise I did was in 2001. in the windjammer Sovereign had solf serve. Not 24 hours like Carnival (which does not matter to me I don't normally eat ice cream at 2 a.m. anyway) but they did have it. That is a disapointment as I am planning a cruise on Mariner next year.

I read posts that Mariner had the soft serve in the Windjammer. Is that correct? And yes I have made my own milkshakes before. I take the soft serve ice cream, mix in a little milk and sometimes a little coffee. This is much better for me because I can control how rich it is and as the one post already mentioned about themselves I too have diabetes. That post is correct too. White bread and potatoes both can run your sugar much higher then a simple dessert. I love ice cream (not Hadgen Doz or Ben and Jerry's) as it does not run my sugar up as much as a baked potato and heck I enjoy it much more.

I too say RCCL should keep the soft serve in the windjammer-not all of us can eat that Ben and Jerry's. I hope RCCL reads these boards and see this.

[bUU]

[quote name='Lyncruiser']I can't believe how many people seem to think it's a good idea that RCCL charges for sodas now on the theory that they don't like them anyway, they aren't healthy, etc. [/QUOTE]The bit about soda not being healthy doesn't compute for me either. However, if you think about it, you'll realize the logic in supporting fees for services that folks don't patronize. It is called a la carte pricing, and it is much more common, in the wider economy, than the inclusivity that you advocate.

[quote name='Lyncruiser']Are you all saying that RCCL should charge for each thing you don't like so that your cruise is cheaper? On that logic, there should be a surcharge if I eat lobster on formal night -- because not everyone likes lobster! Why should those who don't like it subsidize my lobster.[/QUOTE]This line of reasonsing is not helping your cause, IMHO. You may think it sounds ridiculous, but only if you choose to ignore the inherent rationality of a la carte pricing.

To demonstrate this, just move away from a cruise ship, into a restaurant. Other folks don't subsidize your lobster, there. In actuality, the situation aboard cruise ships is the anamoly.

To the extent that the included items represent what the general public wants, it serves well to include them. People like feeling free to indulge in things, especially when they've "already paid for them." That's part of the service being sold by the cruise lines.

However, that very same aspect rubs a lot of people the wrong way. As the number of people cruising increases -- especially as cruising comes into the realm of affordability for folks of lesser means -- the trend could very likely be towards reducing the base price and charging extra for high-cost aspects of the service.

Yes, that could lead towards Southwest Cruise Lines (a la Southwest Airlines), but keep in mind that thousands and thousands of passengers love Southwest precisely because it does provide a service they can afford, even if it doesn't have all the amenities of the higher-priced carriers.

[quote name='Lyncruiser']It would be much more equitable if I paid extra for my lobster.[/QUOTE]And don't knock equity. Generally, equity is considered to be a good thing (except, of course, when the unequal treatment is good, and it is bestown on one's self! :D )

[quote name='Lyncruiser']Before long, it won't be a cruise. It will be a ship that you pay to get on. Then you pay for each and every thing you choose to eat, drink, participate in, look at, watch or notice. Ooops, I probably just gave the RCCL executives a great idea.[/QUOTE]It's not a matter of giving them any ideas. They are really really smart people, as evidenced by recent financial news. I think it is a little silly to sell them short by assuming they haven't thought of it. Rather, they're so smart that they know that they need to respond to the market: When the market wants to move towards lower base prices and more a la carte surcharging, they'll do it. They're actually already doing it, of course, on a small scale, with the soft drinks. If the market moves in the other direction, so will the suppliers. Again, it all comes down to what the market wants.

[Erie Dave]

It is amazing the number of people who can't believe that companies want to make money!!!

[bUU]

Well, I think they believe it; they just don't want it to be the case.

[xpcdoojk]

[quote name='Woodsmaster']Their base prices are not below cost.

The sad thing is that they have seen some of their compadres start the charging extra gig for this and that and they will all be doing it before long. Just cae back from a Princess Cruise. Coke Card was the best deal I paid for all week. They had three pay to eat places..... Sabatinis, the Desert Rose, and a Bistro in the Horizon (buffet) lounge at night. It is a way for them to introduce the idea of people having to pay on a cruise ship for services that five years ago were part of the ticket. If cruisers don't complain, then they will continue to engage in predatory charging for everyday services.[/QUOTE]
I love to read the posters that actually know the cost structure of the cruise industry. I must assume that you are on the board of directors to know that they in fact make a profit on all cabins, including the ones that are empty. :rolleyes: :D I think Mark K makes an eloquent statement of the fallacy expressed in this and other similar replies on this thread.

Everyone thinks they can run the cruiseline better than the cruiseline. I am still waiting for the OP to tell us about her restaurant so we can check it out and accuse her of ripping off the poor customer as she is so flip to do with RCI.:rolleyes: :D

jc

[bUU]

Glad to find yet-another thing to agree with you about, jc.

[Mark_K]

My personal view is that they should charge $1.00 per ounce of soda and $1.00 per ounce of liquor. Teach those weenies who can't drink it straight up a lesson.

[Cruise-Nut]

Kat -

I must tell you that I own a restaurant as well and I make more money off of my drinks than I do off of my entree's. I as well as all other good restaurant owners realize that people remember the price of your food more than they do of your drinks and when it is time to go out to eat your customer will remember the price of the food so they will come to eat. If you had high food you might not come in to eat. That is why it is so cheap to cruise with RCI. If they included everything, you might not want to cruise because the rate would be very high. this way you have a choice rather or not you want to order soda or not. Me, I prefer tea but the wife loves her soda. So what? YOU HAVE THE CHOICE!!!

[Lyncruiser]

Bicker -- Since you seem to have felt it necessary to give me a step by step lesson in what ala carte pricing means (as if I didn't know), perhaps you'd like to give us an example of how it ought to work in the cruise industry (an industry known for basically all-inclusive pricing) since ala carte pricing is "inherently rational".

Perhaps you could even apply it to the all-inclusive hotel industry. Seems inherently rational there, too! And, I suggest that you write to Disney and tell them that their one-price entry fee for Disney parks is inherently irrational. Why should I pay money that is used to operate rides I don't like and won't go on? Disney used to have ticket books but they gave those up in favor of one-pass pricing. Huge multi-national corporation takes action that is inherently irrational. Hmmmmmm.

The thing I have enjoyed about cruising is that I don't have to pay for each thing individually. I pay one fare and alot of what I like is already included. It's the same reason I like staying concierge at Disney resorts. But, you are right, with computer chips, etc., a cruise could be reduced to a fare to get on board (someone said $14 net, so perhaps $100 per person) and then every single thing you eat, every show you attend, every pool game you play, etc., would be extra. And, I agree that the mass market cruise industry is trying to move that way.

I wonder how many who read this board would like that. I, for one, would stop cruising.

Cruise-Nut -- if you own a restaurant, you know how cheap soda is. That's why restaurants can give refills and it costs them essentially nothing to do it. The cruise price wouldn't go up one penny if sodas were included with dinner, IMHO. Cruise pricing depends on much more than toting up what food and drink costs for someone for a week. Charging for sodas does not reduce your cruise fare. Competition among cruise lines does.

[momofmeg]

[quote name='Candi']Right -there are no drink cards offered on the Mariner for beer or alcohol and there is no soft serve ice cream in the windjammer or anywhere on this ship only frozen yogurt on the promendade or by the pool and honestly, do you really think that someone is going to make their own shake?? Come on lets get some real answers. If you want real ice cream, you can pay for Ben & Jerry's and if you want a real shake you can pay for it at Johnny Rockets.
There was lobster tails served one night on the Mariner and there is also steak in the dining room.[/QUOTE]
Candi I already apologised for miss speaking but I also started a tread asking if there were solf serve stations on Mariner. I was told there is but instead of the windjammer it is by the pool. As I said the last time I was on RCCL was in 2001.

Anyway I think people are right. Bring your cokes and drink them in the cabin. We have taken cokes on board before and no one said a thing to us. so glad though now I am no longer hooked. That is the reason I stopped drinking cokes. The DR. did not want me to drink more then 2 a week and I would crave them too much so I just went cold-turkey. after drinking that one coke back in Oct. I craved them again for a week or more-so I can't cut down I have to go cold turkey.

I am not into drinking beer and wine so I won't miss the discount card. Well as I said over-all cruising is cheaper except for the voyager class ships. I guess I can buy my own drinks and still come out cheaper then what I paid for a cruise 4 years ago-but then I like buy 2 drinks sometimes 3 a day at the most.

[bUU]

[quote name='Lyncruiser']Bicker -- Since you seem to have felt it necessary to give me a step by step lesson in what ala carte pricing means (as if I didn't know),[/QUOTE]I have gotten conflicting feedback on quoting vs. not quoting in my replies. The overwhelming direction I've detected is in FAVOR of quoting.

[quote name='Lyncruiser']perhaps you'd like to give us an example of how it ought to work in the cruise industry since ala carte pricing is "inherently rational".[/QUOTE]Given sufficient market data, surely.

[quote name='Lyncruiser'](an industry known for basically all-inclusive pricing)[/QUOTE]"Known" -- define "known."

[quote name='Lyncruiser']Perhaps you could even apply it to the all-inclusive hotel industry.[/QUOTE]And here you've hit on the point I was making: Hotels are generally NOT all-inclusive. Therefore, it isn't surprising that the push is towards having some significant amount of cruises be non-all-inclusive as well.

[quote name='Lyncruiser']Seems inherently rational there, too![/QUOTE]Just because a la carte pricing is rational, that doesn't preclude other inherently rational pricing models. Are you reading things into what I'm writing that aren't there?

[quote name='Lyncruiser']And, I suggest that you write to Disney and tell them that their one-price entry fee for Disney parks is inherently irrational.[/QUOTE]Evidently you are. Go back and read again. No one has suggested that all-inclusiveness is inherently irrational. Rather, all I've said is that a la carte pricing is inherently rational.

[quote name='Lyncruiser']Why should I pay money that is used to operate rides I don't like and won't go on? Disney used to have ticket books but they gave those up in favor of one-pass pricing.[/QUOTE]Yup, and many amusement parks still offer a la carte pricing. Amusement parks lean towards pay-one-price, while hotels don't. Is it surprising that there is a spectrum of approaches? If so, why?

[quote name='Lyncruiser']The thing I have enjoyed about cruising is that I don't have to pay for each thing individually.[/QUOTE]And (if true) you'll be drawn towards the more all-inclusive cruise lines, which unsurprisingly, charge more.

[beverland]

I don't drink soda and frankly don't want to pay for someone else's soda by adding it onto my cruise fare. There are plenty of "free" beverages around if you have to drink something that is free. Have anyone ever tried water??

Frankly, I like beer by the pool, wine with dinner & a martini at the shows. I think these beverges should be free on the ship whenever and wherever I want them. NOT!!

If you don't like what you're getting for the price you've paid - you can always take your business somewhere else. It's the American way.

Hey, a day on a cruise is a hundred times better than a day working, in my humble opinion. Why doesn't everyone just "qui'cha bichin" and enjoy your cruise vacation??

[PGcruiser]

So all drinks should be charged, except water. Afterall we wouldn't want to accomodate some peoples tastes and not others. Who decides which drinks are included....what if you don't drink, coffee, tea or lemonade...Just a point of reference..I don't and I will not purchase a soda card...and yes I will purchase the one can of diet soda that I will drink per day.

[Planetsis]

If the soda cards included the type of soda I'm interested in drinking, which is diet/caffeine-free, then I think it'd be worthwhile to purchase one. Since the ships don't typically carry what I drink, I see no point in purchasing one. While on board, I think I'll request that they start carrying that type of soda to accommodate me and others who drink diet/caffeine-free soft drinks. :)

Soda in cans is a heck of a lot more expensive than fountain soda. Am I correct in my understanding that the soda card only includes fountain drinks and NOT canned?

[montgomeryfamily]

Planetsis, the soda cards only include fountain sodas, not canned sodas, even if the particular soda requested is only carried on the ship in cans. We have, on rare occasions, been given a soda poured from a can into a glass by the bartender, but only when the fountain soda wasn't working (at at a bar where we had been drinking soda and tipping the server extra). On other occasions when the soda fountain didn't work, we were told to go to another bar and were not offered canned soda as an alternative.

We also found that, using the small ice-filled glasses which are usually used for fountain sodas, that a canned soda will fill this glass twice. Thus, using the adult soda card, it requires eight glasses a day of soda to make the soda card approximately the same price as buying the equivalent amount of soda in cans (four cans) instead.

[montgomeryfamily]

Lyncruisers, I agree with your posts, especially that RCI must be really happy to have so many defenders. However, RCI executives, if you are reading this, I want to point out that, for the most part those defenders have said they hadn't been buying the soda cards anyway, so RCI should consider the reaction and feedback of their RCI soda card customers and former customers (like us, who used to buy the soda card but won't with this new price increase) rather than the approval of those defenders who have never been soda card customers.

Lyncruisers, I haven't been posting back to this thread until Planetsis asked the question above because I decided not to waste my time refuting the DEFENDERS OF RCI who assure us that RCI is really smart and knows what they are doing and we shouldn't question their decisions. Also, I put in the same category those who have been pontificating regarding business strategies/practices/theories, especially as to RCI, without providing any actual sources or data, yet criticizing and citing lack of data for those who have a differing opinion. None of these pontificators have indicated they work for RCI or have some particular data source they are using on which their opinions are based and therefore, their statements are just their opinions, just like everyone else who is posting. So Lyncruiser, I wanted to let you know that I am going to ignore this thread and suggest that you also do the same unless you have a lot of time to waste.

The only one who has posted any "data" is Mark K, who provided information that the RCI's net income is $14.00 a day per passenger. I am also a RCI stockholder and that data is derived from data available in the annual report. What Mark doesn't explain is this net income is derived after all of the other operating expenses of the company are deducted, including the salaries and stock options of the senior executives, monies paid for the shipbuilding program, and various other expenses such as litigation settlements. This is all contained in the annual report. I thought most people would know this, but since another poster commented on the "narrow margins" I wanted to clarify this. So there are many things that RCI can do to increase profit margins, including reducing these non-shipboard operational expenses.

Also interesting to note is the net income for Carnival Corporation, which owns Princess and Holland America, and is approximately $36 per day per passenger. I am a Carnival Corporation stockholder and this data is also drived from data contained in their annual report and their 4th quarter 2003 Financial Press Release. (This is also net income derived after all of the other operating expenses are deducted, including merger expenses.)

Remember that Princess and Holland America both offer soda cards at charges which are approximately half that of RCI.

IMHO it is clear that the profitability of RCI doesn't hinge on the current soda card charge. I think that Madforcruising's description of RCI's current business philosophy/strategy is right on target, that is "to squeeze the most profit out of soda drinkers."

What surprises me is the number of people who say this is exactly the business philosophy/strategy a business should have--that it is their duty to to their stockholders--to squeeze the most profit possible from a commodity.

If this was correct, the price of gasoline should be many times higher than it is now. With the reliance on petroleum products, I'm sure people would continue to buy gasoline even if it was $5.00 (closer to the price in Europe) or even more a gallon. The petroleum companies don't raise the prices this high in the United States not because they don't think the market will bear it, but because of the other ramifications, including, very importantly, public opinion and outcry. I am also a stockholder in several energy/petroleum companies and I don't believe that the company is failing to act in the best interest of the stockholders by not raising these prices because I recognize there are other business considerations which affect how much profit the company should make through retail sales to individual customers.

RCI used to charge for the rock-climbing wall, but discontinued that practice after customer outcry and comments and the refusal of the customers to pay the charges. I believe a positive way to address the high charge for the soda card issue is refuse to buy the adult soda card AND to indicate in comments to RCI via the cruise comment card or in other correspondence that this is the reason you didn't buy it. You can carry soda onboard to drink instead.

Frankly, since the actual cost of fountain soda is so minimal and the servers do almost all of the work, I think that the soda card charge should be a gratuity for the bar servers tip pool. I would find this a more reasonable basis on which to charge a fee for the soda card and this would also likely make the bar servers much more enthusiastic about serving soda, since they would now want people to buy the cards and get that big gratituty in the tip pool.

[Merion_Mom]

KATHY (montgomeryfamily) FOR PRESIDENT! Best posting I have EVER read on this or most other topics.

Carol

[montgomeryfamily]

Thanks. In order to help people to be able to purchase sodas to take onboard, I'm going to start a thread asking CCers if they can provide locations near the ports where sodas can be purchased to take onboard.

[Lyncruiser]

Montgomery Family -- Thanks for the post. I agree with everything that you said -- couldn't have said it better myself!!

[Mark_K]

montgomeryfamily,

That's why they call it "net" income, it's "net" of all expenses - even the toilet paper in the executive washroom. I think most people have a pretty good idea of what's meant by the term.

Anyway, I took a closer look at the Annual Report ... RCL gets 26.7% of it revenues from 'Onboard and other revenues' and it only accounts for 6.6% of its expenses. Anybody who doesn't believe they sell the cruises at a loss and make up for it with what we buy onboard is nuts.

[bUU]

Sorry, montgomeryfamily, but all I see is someone blindly rationalizing away a company's right to make profit.

[kimanjo]

BICKER is correct--Disney charges more for the equivalent RCL cruise. Hence, more of Disney's features are "all inclusive" and reflected in the higher Disney price.

Since I don't drink soda I would rather have a lower cruise price and let those people who want to have soda pay extra for it, as opposed to charging me (in my cruise fare) for an option that I won't use.

[malony33]

We take a cruise to enjoy ourselves - hey, it's vacation, life is short and all that.

I drink iced tea, but my husband is a hard-nosed, long-time Diet Coke man. We've found the soda card a good deal for him; it's convenient; the insulated cup keeps it cold; the cup is bigger than the glasses, so fewer trips to the bar. And, NO HEALTH COMMENTS, PLEASE, he has a big thirst.

If my kids were still little and traveling with us, we would have a different plan. IT'S ALL PERSONAL PREFERENCE AND SITUATION, FOLKS.

I've learned : go with the flow, don't sweat the small stuff (if it's small to you), a cruise is a present we give ourselves and is not a time for needless anxiety. I really meant it when I said at the top of this post that life is short.
I've had a brush with death once, my DH quite a few times, our world is filled with terrorists and HIV and insane wars, politics runs our lives...TAKE THE CRUISE!!! DRINK SODA, TEA, WATER, ...but kiss the teakwood deak as soon as you board and thank your personal creator for your LIFE, not the soda that consumes it!

Sorry...I hardly EVER rant and have a distaste for "preaching" - I know, I know, I just did. But really, for some CC posters, I truly wish you a life where the price of soda on your once-a-year vacation is your biggest worry, because then you've got it made. God bless and smooth sailing!

Barb :)