Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

[twinkletoes4445]

Twinkle, that's a little harsh on Hammy ("But I'll bet they are glad they have their own little cheerleader here trying to convice many of us that's this isn't a big deal,") don't you think? Hammy's post didn't sound that way to me, just seems an explanation on HAL making money on Parkwest & other groups, and how they will continue to sell to large groups to make money.

 

The original issue was the taking over of the Crow's Nest. Even I went to check it out on my first HAL cruise and it was closed for a group. Our CC group is scheduled to have a Meet & Greet there this summer, but we have been warned that our venue could be changed.

 

I also agree with you that HAL and it's special assistants do give wishy washy response letters. I have received some myself (another issue) that were not 100% clear, and that in itself is a customer service issue.

 

Actually, I don't think I am being hard on HB at all.

 

If HAL wants to rent out space to subsidize the cruise so it can be more profitable to them, or make it profitable, or whatever the reason...I don't care WHY they are doing it...I just want to know in advance that they are doing this so I can make a decision as to if I want to deal with this sort of thing.

 

I don't care if certain areas of the ship are closed here and there, that's not my complaint. We were tossed out of one of the lounges because a group was celebrating an anniversary. We just moved on. It was no big deal.

[twinkletoes4445]

I appreciate that many passengers like the art auctions because the revenues from this are subsidizing my cruise.

 

And I don't want to have to give up a "public space" for a group that may or may not be subsidizing my cruise. And we don't know this is even a fact.

 

I want what's advertized. I want to have full access to the Crow's Nest and other public areas. If HAL intends to "rent out" the space, then I want to know in advance.

 

Then and only then can I make a decision that will work for me. If you or anyone else out there is willing to deal with this sort of thing...that's your decision. I am not in the habit of taking leftovers...especially on a cruise that I paid a lot of money for.

 

And you have really wonder what type of people would spend $$$ on this junk. lol I guess there's a sucker born everyday and HAL is taking full advantage of it!

[twinkletoes4445]

I wonder how much it would cost to rent the CN for a cruise just to keep it public?

 

That's a thought!!

 

Well, if they want to rent it out...then they just need to take it off the list as a public space. That would resolve that issue. But how many people would not cruise if they knew they didn't have access to this area? Right now, HAL is doing this under the radar...we don't know if it will happen or not. Kind of like spinning the Wheel Of Fortune...or Misfortune.

 

HAL will do this until they see that their individual cruisers no loger will put up with this...and leave. And they may be able to fill their ships with enough groups and individuals that just don't care. I won't be one of them, but I guess it's their business, they can do what they want. I just don't have to book a cruise with them.

[twinkletoes4445]

Ever since submitting my second evaluation card to HAL, and not getting any response to my comments, I have been offering higher and higher $$ to the charity of their choice if they would send me a response to my comments. Guess what? Still none after five HAL cruises.:rolleyes:

 

Interesting. You'd think they'd take the time and get back with you.

 

Maybe on the next card, you need to say your one of the Park West "suckers" and see if they take the time to respond.

[twinkletoes4445]

Twinkletoes..You keep talking about HAL's agenda...You are the one in denial..Park West is on most Cruise Lines & they are raking in the money for these companies..Go on their WEB site..You will see they are hiring people to work as auctioneers on all the cruise lines...

 

But to say that it's only HAL is ludicrous..Wake up & smell the coffee...Don't expect any other Cruise Line to be any different..If you don't like it, then take a land based vacation where you can be assured that all the public areas will be open & not rented out to private groups..If you can find one of these..:rolleyes:

 

I know Park West is on all cruise lines. But I object to HAL (or any cruise line) blocking off public spaces for the entire length of a cruise.

 

We've have done a lot of traveling, and have never encountered anything like this. And after spending almost 6k for my cruise, I would have been beyond unhappy to find out the Crow's Nest was not open to the public for the length of my cruise.

 

You're the one who is in denial. lol It's quite easy to find a land based vacation spot where you won't run into something like this. And if a particular area is blocked off, for whatever reason, you're not on a ship floating in the middle of the ocean, you can go elsewhere. What are you going to do on the ship? Get in your rental car and look for other options? lol They've got you where they want you.

 

If HAL or any other cruise line wants to do this...then disclose this up front. If they choose not to do this...then I choose not to cruise.

 

And if they can get enough people who say "that's the way it is" then they will continue this practice.

 

I don't "settle" for anything. When I plunk down my money, I want to know what I am getting for my money.

 

HAL, along with being labeled the "nursing home of the high seas" is now also going to be known for their large number of charters, and catering to large groups. If that's the direction they want to go...that's their business. But I want no part of this.

 

And since this is a forum...it's nice to know what they and other lines are doing.

[O2B@C]

Denial means pretending something did not happen. Perhaps a better term is that HAL and all the other cruise lines are ignoring the situation.

 

But that is exactly what they did, in the response posted here indicating that only 9 pax complained - they did not pretend the closing of the CN did not happen, but they did pretend that pax were not troubled by it. That's bull - they just were ignoring the unhappiness unless a pax turned in a formal written comment card.

 

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything beyond the realities of cruising which includes Park West being a significant contributer to the bottom line of every cruise and that large Groups trump individual passengers. ....

 

But you do seem to feel that PW's contribution to the bottom line justifies HAL's accommodating them in any way they ask, no matter how much that tramples on the legitimate expectations of the individual pax. It's not PW's presence on the cruise that bothers me - I don't even care if they give perks to their VIPs, as long as those perks don't require taking something way from other pax that they have been led by HAL's own advertising to believe will be available as part of what they pay for with their cruise fare. There are plenty of ways HAL could accommodate PW without closing off the CN for them (free upgrades, OBC, etc.). And there are other venues PW could use without having anywhere near as much of an impact on other pax as closing the CN does.

 

The OP did not have his facts straight in the begining and relied upon what some officer told him, that the CN was closed due to a Park West renting out the CN for an employee event. Eventually he and we learned that the guests were Park West VIPs.

 

What does it matter that the OP was wrong about who PW was closing the CN for? The important thing was that the CN was totally closed to non-group pax on two scenic cruising days - he was not wrong about that - and HAL tried to deny this, or downplay it to the point of absurdity.

 

I have sailed with Park West VIPs who received comp cabins because they were known to HAL and Parkwest as big spenders and they most certainly were. It is common for people like this to board mid cruise and the ship will indeed wait for them.....

 

Fine - let them have their comp cabins and board on whatever day they like - that doesn't interfere with my ability to enjoy the facilities I was led to believe I was paying for. If the ship waits for them, and makes up the time later so I get more or less the amount of port time that was advertised, that's fine too. In fact, this part of your post just proves my point that there are plenty of ways HAL can accommodate these people without letting them exclude other pax from premium venues for large stretches of time.

 

Having said all that, I do want to add that I don't think it was fair or appropriate to cast aspersions on your motives or accuse you of cheerleading for HAL. You are a valued contributor to this board, and my own disagreement with you is nothing personal.

I understand that you are just trying to explain the economic realities of the situation. But I do think you are not giving enough credence to the argument that it is false advertising for HAL to tout the CN as a public facilityon its website and then make it unavailable for large stretches of time, without telling pax prior to booking, and without compensating them. In my view that is tantamount to breach of contract, and possibly fraud.

[serendipity1499]

Quote In my view that is tantamount to breach of contract, and possibly fraud.Quote..

Twinkletoes…Where in the contract does it say that we will have use of the Crow's Nest or any other Public forum? Have you read the contract? I have!

 

First let me state that, I'm not a shill for HAL, don't work for HAL & have even booked a cruise on a competitor (Oceania) this Nov. (could not pass up a good deal).But I love cruising & want to continue cruising for many years to come..

I also was in the Travel field for more than 30 years & have traveled all over the world..Have seen this sort of thing happen more times than you know..If you think HAL & other cruise Lines will change you are living in a dream world..

I'm not in denial..Here in Florida we have many luxury resorts....Families with young children were booked for a week at one of them…They were denied access to the main pool due to planned maintenance for the entire week..They were never told, when they booked that they would not be able to use the pool....When they asked to use one of the time share pools, they were told no it could not be done..They only could use the beach..They were not told beforehand & had no where else to go..Many people do not like to use the beach & these folks were furious..Those who complained the loudest, were given a coupon for an overpriced dinner at the Resort Restaurant..

Recently, in Jacksonville there was a Barbershop (Singing) Convention and all the luxury Hotels were booked up for a week…Some non-Barbershopper guests were also booked in one particular Hotel..They could not sleep because the Quartet singing was going on at all hours of the night..All the other Hotels were booked up & there was no place else to for them to go..They were furious because they were not told about this convention beforehand..

You also stated,. that we don’t know for a fact that Park West helps to subsidize our cruises, but you are wrong..We do know this & any good Travel Professional will confirm it.. Our cruises are subsidized by Art Auctions, spa services, shore excursions, Bar tabs etc.. It’s also a fact that Cruise Prices have not increased in proportion to cruise costs…

In 1996 My DH & I paid $1498.00 plus port charges for an outside cabin, on a 7 day NCL Caribbean Cruise. That's $214.00 per day. (DH says these travel brochures etc. must go..LOL)

The price of a 7 day Eastern or Western Caribbean cruise in 2006 on HAL for an outside cabin started at $749 per person or $1498 for two..That was also $214.00 per night..

We take the longer cruises & spend much more than $6,000 on them & would not be happy if the Crows Nest were closed for our entire cruise either..But we won’t stop cruising & are happy that we both are healthy & able to cruise..

Will still gather the lemons..Any one else care to join me for a fresh glass of lemonade...

[serendipity1499]

O2B@C & Twinkeltoes.. OOPS! mea culpa...

 

Apologize for my error in the above post ..The first question concerning fraud & the cruise contract should have been addressed to O2B2C..

 

However the next part of it was in answer to Twinkletoes prior posts..

 

Betty

[hammybee]

A cruise line's web site and brochure are marketing tools. No where does it say all venues will be available 24/7, to all passengers. In fact, HAL's own web site , like many cruise line web sites, make it clear they have meeting space for up to 900 people, available at no additional cost to the group booking. Where do you think that space is going to come from?

 

I have stayed at golf resorts only to find the golf course closed to accommodate a private event. I have stayed at a resort and found the resort pool closed due, to a private event. We are not talking about a single day here and it was not possible to check out and go somewhere else. None of this was known to me at the time of booking. It happens all the time in the hospitality business and occasionally, in the cruise segment too.

 

The hospitality industry has, by practice, redefined public space, because it is their space. Guest may use the facilities unless such facilities have been booked for a private event. And none of them tell you this before hand, unless there is a construction crane overhead repairing hurricane damage.

 

Sure it's misrepresentation. So what. It is what it is. Group business has and will continue to trump individual guests/passengers, from time to time.

 

I am comfortable with the odds that it is unlikely that a group or Park West event will disturb my enjoyment of a cruise, on any cruise line. (and by the way, I have more days with other cruise lines than I do with HAL and the grass is not any greener, on the other side).

 

I love cruising and choose to not allow an unlikely event to diminish my plans to cruise with any cruise line. As I previously said, the liklihood the weather will not be good, is greater than the likelihood of being denied access to the Crows Nest, for the duration of a cruise.

 

The alternative is to stay home and whine on message boards, about something I have no control over. I prefer to make lemonaide, if and when I encounter some lemons.

[crazy4cruisn]

A cruise line's web site and brochure are marketing tools. No where does it say all venues will be available 24/7, to all passengers. In fact, HAL's own web site , like many cruise line web sites, make it clear they have meeting space for up to 900 people, available at no additional cost to the group booking. Where do you think that space is going to come from?

 

I have stayed at golf resorts only to find the golf course closed to accommodate a private event. I have stayed at a resort and found the resort pool closed due, to a private event. We are not talking about a single day here and it was not possible to check out and go somewhere else. None of this was known to me at the time of booking. It happens all the time in the hospitality business and occasionally, in the cruise segment too.

 

The hospitality industry has, by practice, redefined public space, because it is their space. Guest may use the facilities unless such facilities have been booked for a private event. And none of them tell you this before hand, unless there is a construction crane overhead repairing hurricane damage.

 

Sure it's misrepresentation. So what. It is what it is. Group business has and will continue to trump individual guests/passengers, from time to time.

 

I am comfortable with the odds that it is unlikely that a group or Park West event will disturb my enjoyment of a cruise, on any cruise line. (and by the way, I have more days with other cruise lines than I do with HAL and the grass is not any greener, on the other side).

 

I love cruising and choose to not allow an unlikely event to diminish my plans to cruise with any cruise line. As I previously said, the liklihood the weather will not be good, is greater than the likelihood of being denied access to the Crows Nest, for the duration of a cruise.

 

The alternative is to stay home and whine on message boards, about something I have no control over. I prefer to make lemonaide, if and when I encounter some lemons.

 

But I think it is only fair to let people know what to expect. At least you will have a choice to book or not book.

I guess everyone saw the posting about Park West's art being at Costco? Guess HAL didn't make them enough money.

[Copper10-8]

Dear Twinkletoes:)

Your message(s) has/have been received loud and clear by anyone that reads this nice thread (including, I'm sure, HAL Seattle). What you want most, however (without putting words in your mouth;) ) seems to be that HAL gives us pax a heads up prior to our cruise(s) that the Crow's Nest (or any other lounge on the ship) is going to be unavailable to "regular pax" at times, due to same being rented by certain groups. In this case a group that "sells junk, has folks waiving paddles in the sky, and serves cheap bubbly".

Awwrighty then! Ain't gonna happen, period! Might as well say goodbye to HAL now, start booking Oceana, Silver Seas, Chrystal, the SS Minnow, you name it and no longer waste your valuable time and energy. This is a business decision and John and Jane Q loyal customers like you, me, Hammybee, S7S, the Reverend in Texas, Hawg Wild Terry, the nice Navy lady in San Diego.........AAAAmerican (geez, where did that come from?:eek:) ........, you name it, got no input in it. The allmighty $ speaks here, period. HAL is not going to send out letters to all those other pax and run the risk of them cancelling their cruise beforehand because the CN happens to not be available. They'll obviously rather take their chances and handle the fall-out onboard, after the cruise, and/or here on Cruise Critic. None of us here know, yes, including Harbormaster, how many of the 1,316 guests on Rotterdam were unhappy campers on that cruise (yes, the infamous nine comment cards). Unless people start building barricades in front of 300 Elliott Ave in Seattle, me thinks HAL will take them odds, run with them, and do damage control later.

Now, you come across as a bright individual! You and many here have got to know that Holland America Line is a business, run by business folks at the top. They're in it to make money! If Park West or any other entity comes along and says "Lookie here, cloggies in Seattle, we will offer you xxxxx amount of $$$$ if you let us use the famous Crow's Nest for whatever we wanna do (within reason) during a certain cruise" What do you think the suits in the coffee capital of the world are gonna say??? Heck No, get outta here, you silly junk sellers! Go over to the Norwegians, give them your money and take your cheap champagne and paddles with you. Come on, now!

There's been a lot of speculation and angst on this thread but the bottom line is this: How many times has this sorta thing happened or is this going to happen in a years time? An inside source told me Park West holds this type of event 2-3 times a year. If you or I happen to be the unlucky pax that will find ourselves on one of those 2-3 cruises, like Harbormaster, well, I guess, we're caca out of luck! Having said that, you and I will be fully within our rights if we then say "This is B.S.! Up yours HAL, I'm leaving and I'm never never coming back, no matter how many of those free Delft blue tiles you give me!"

Aren't we lucky we have those choices?

[hammybee]

But I think it is only fair to let people know what to expect. At least you will have a choice to book or not book.

 

I completely agree. Resorts and cruise lines should disclose this when guests and passengers book, but they don't.

[arabrab]

There's a big difference between intermittent facility closures, and the sustained closure on the Rotterdam. There are a lot of facilities that would be a problem if they were rarely open -- if a fitness group blocked the gym, or blocked it every day from 7am-10pm, other passengers would have good reason to be annoyed and to feel that HAL had reneged on the facilities advertised. But if the gym isn't available one or two mornings on a seven day cruise, that's different. The line between okay and not acceptable gets pretty blurry -- if the gym was reserved for a group all day for each sea day, that's over the line, even if it is available to everyone full time on port days. Having the Crows Nest available only on port days or only after 11PM rather defeats the concept behind the Crows Nest, and I wouldn't consider this equitable.

 

I'm sorry HAL hasn't been more upfront on this issue.

[twinkletoes4445]

Twinkletoes…Where in the contract does it say that we will have use of the Crow's Nest or any other Public forum? Have you read the contract? I have!

 

 

 

 

I also was in the Travel field for more than 30 years & have traveled all over the world..Have seen this sort of thing happen more times than you know..If you think HAL & other cruise Lines will change you are living in a dream world..

 

I'm sure they have there back side of the ship covered each and every way...up to and including dumping you off a cruise that you've booked (if a chater comes along).

 

I've been traveling for a long, long time...and just like you, we've covered a lot of territory. We've never encountered this before (maybe you're just picking the wrong places to vacation). The biggest problem with this issue is we are on a cruise ship...not a land based hotel. If a particular venue is booked, at least if you are on land, you have the option of finding another spot to do whatever...swim, watch the the world go by...whatever...but on a ship...you are limited in your abilities to wander too far looking for a solution.

 

I'm not living in a dream world...not at all. If HAL continues doing this sort of thing, then we have other options. It's not like I am going to beg them to stop...so I really don't care if they do or don't.

 

We manage to find ourselves in places that don't seem to adhere to this practice. We're not used to "settling" for whatever leftovers are to be had...and our TA does a fantastic job finding quality places where we won't run into this sort of thing. She's been at it a long time, and I'd say she's doing a great job...since she's not set us up in a situation like this...and you said you've experienced this many times. I could give you her number if you want...she's awesome.

[twinkletoes4445]

But I think it is only fair to let people know what to expect. At least you will have a choice to book or not book.

I guess everyone saw the posting about Park West's art being at Costco? Guess HAL didn't make them enough money.

 

That's exactly my point. Let us know in advance. Then we can decide. That's all I want. I don't want to know why they do it...I don't care...I just want to be informed.

 

LOL..The Costco post was funny.

[twinkletoes4445]

I completely agree. Resorts and cruise lines should disclose this when guests and passengers book, but they don't.

 

But at least with resorts, you can go elsewhere. If you are on a ship...where are you to go?

[hammybee]

But at least with resorts, you can go elsewhere. If you are on a ship...where are you to go?

 

When you are at the Dorato Beach Resort in Puerto Rico or Half Moon in Jamacia, to name a few, there is nowhere else to go, in high season and no seats available on a flight home, should one care to eat the fare differential and abort the vacation.

 

I am not going to worry about something that might happen, a few times a year, spread across almost 1,000 sailings, on 13 different HAL ships.

[twinkletoes4445]

Dear Twinkletoes:)

Your message(s) has/have been received loud and clear by anyone that reads this nice thread (including, I'm sure, HAL Seattle). What you want most, however (without putting words in your mouth;) ) seems to be that HAL gives us pax a heads up prior to our cruise(s) that the Crow's Nest (or any other lounge on the ship) is going to be unavailable to "regular pax" at times, due to same being rented by certain groups. In this case a group that "sells junk, has folks waiving paddles in the sky, and serves cheap bubbly".

Awwrighty then! Ain't gonna happen, period! Might as well say goodbye to HAL now, start booking Oceana, Silver Seas, Chrystal, the SS Minnow, you name it and no longer waste your valuable time and energy. This is a business decision and John and Jane Q loyal customers like you, me, Hammybee, S7S, the Reverend in Texas, Hawg Wild Terry, the nice Navy lady in San Diego.........AAAAmerican (geez, where did that come from?:eek:) ........, you name it, got no input in it. The allmighty $ speaks here, period. HAL is not going to send out letters to all those other pax and run the risk of them cancelling their cruise beforehand because the CN happens to not be available. They'll obviously rather take their chances and handle the fall-out onboard, after the cruise, and/or here on Cruise Critic. None of us here know, yes, including Harbormaster, how many of the 1,316 guests on Rotterdam were unhappy campers on that cruise (yes, the infamous nine comment cards). Unless people start building barricades in front of 300 Elliott Ave in Seattle, me thinks HAL will take them odds, run with them, and do damage control later.

Now, you come across as a bright individual! You and many here have got to know that Holland America Line is a business, run by business folks at the top. They're in it to make money! If Park West or any other entity comes along and says "Lookie here, cloggies in Seattle, we will offer you xxxxx amount of $$$$ if you let us use the famous Crow's Nest for whatever we wanna do (within reason) during a certain cruise" What do you think the suits in the coffee capital of the world are gonna say??? Heck No, get outta here, you silly junk sellers! Go over to the Norwegians, give them your money and take your cheap champagne and paddles with you. Come on, now!

There's been a lot of speculation and angst on this thread but the bottom line is this: How many times has this sorta thing happened or is this going to happen in a years time? An inside source told me Park West holds this type of event 2-3 times a year. If you or I happen to be the unlucky pax that will find ourselves on one of those 2-3 cruises, like Harbormaster, well, I guess, we're caca out of luck! Having said that, you and I will be fully within our rights if we then say "This is B.S.! Up yours HAL, I'm leaving and I'm never never coming back, no matter how many of those free Delft blue tiles you give me!"

Aren't we lucky we have those choices?

 

 

Well, of all the posts...this really covers it all nicely. :)

 

All I want is to be informed, but it sounds like this won't happen.

 

Fine.

 

So my other options are to book a premium line. That's no problem, we'll probably in up doing that, because I'd rather pay more, and know exactly what I am getting. I am not one who wants to take a gamble on this sort of thing.

 

And I do understand how a business operates...we own a business. We're in it for the $$$, but I can tell you, not all decisions we make are based on how much profit is in the deal for us. We engineer and build equipment (that everyone everyday benefits from-even you), And because of this, we have a VERY loyal group of customers. But HAL does have to understand that they may so anger a particular segment of their passengers, that they lose them forever. And I suppose, that is their choice. We just don't operate in the fashion HAL does.

 

Maybe HAL figures they have enough newbies to fill the slots of those of us that are unhappy and go elsewhere. So be it.

 

And we are lucky that we do have other options. I can just take my AMEX card and go elsewhere. :)

 

But I will say I've never come across this type of issue on any vacation we've ever taken.

 

And I really think it's a hoot that these people pay so much for this "junk." Because that's all it is. But if it's the lifeblood for certain cruiselines, then those cruiselines aren't for us.

[twinkletoes4445]

When you are at the Dorato Beach Resort in Puerto Rico or Half Moon in Jamacia, to name a few, there is nowhere else to go, in high season and no seats available on a flight home, should one care to eat the fare differential and abort the vacation.

 

I am not going to worry about something that might happen, a few times a year, spread across almost 1,000 sailings, on 13 different HAL ships.

 

I know you won't worry...that's up to you. :)

 

And I can tell you that every vacation we've been on we've never encountered anything like this. But I just knew you'd come up with the name of some isolated resort. lol

 

Our TA does a wonderful job in finding locations where we're not "stuck" in the locations you mentioned. So if you are going to the places you've mentioned, you've left yourself wide open to having the same thing happen that HAL is doing (but I know you don't care...but we do). We don't have to make changes, or abort anything...because we have "options." Our TA is really awesome...I could pass her name along to you, if you'd like. It might be fun for you to take a vacation where you got to see how it should work...instead of just settling for you get...and hoping for the best. ;)

 

I have an idea...

 

How about not responding to my posts...and I won't respond back to you. :)

 

I know your feelings on this issue. Mine are the opposite. It's simple. We do not agree. We have different travel standards. And there's nothing wrong with either.

[sab490]

I am not going to worry about something that might happen, a few times a year, spread across almost 1,000 sailings, on 13 different HAL ships.

 

I agree with Hammy. It did happen to us on Noordam and it was still the best cruise we have ever been on. Yes it is annoying and unfair but if it happens again we will deal with it. It's just another risk of cruising along with storms, engine trouble, rogue waves, closed ports, noro virus, kids gone wild, obnoxious tablemates...none of which are limited to HAL. These are all facts of cruising life, some of which we have no contol over. For us the rewards still far outweigh the risks.

 

- Steve

[Copper10-8]

......... we own a business. We're in it for the $$$, but I can tell you, not all decisions we make are based on how much profit is in the deal for us. We engineer and build equipment (that everyone everyday benefits from-even you).........

 

OK, come on now, what are you making that even little ol' me will benefit from???;) :D

[bob brown]

I disagree with those that say it's acceptable for HAL not to disclose in advance that certain featured venues are planned to be excluded from public use...That it's a normal occurence in the travel or hospitality business. I would offer as an analogy what passenger reaction would be on a transcontinental passenger train if the featured dome or glass topped observation car would be only available to a private party who prebooked its use during a scenic crossing of the Rocky Mountains. Could cause a riot! The railroad would never do this. If anything, they would provide another car for the private party.

For those who say its the luck of the draw... please consider a passenger who saved long and hard to go on their 'dream vacation", and may not have the means to go again as some of us may. Their missing out as just tough luck?

[Jade13]

 

And I really think it's a hoot that these people pay so much for this "junk." Because that's all it is. quote]

 

I am not sure how much one has to spend to be a Parkwest VIP to get a free cruise, but perhaps some of them have it figured out where they spend say $5K (I am making up this number) on the auction (and get something) but end up with a free Suite which would have cost them a lot more.

 

This is not how I would want to spend my vacation time, but perhaps some of these people are not so dumb...just a thought.

[Jade13]

I also wonder how many people use or care about the Crows Nest? I mean on a cruise with 2,000 passengers, you do not see 2,000 there, at one time anyway.

 

I can also see how this would be more of an issue on a longer voyage, such as a transatlantic. Most European cruises (as an example) are so port intensive that the venue may only interest pax on the 2 (average) port days, but then those interested in the Crows Nest want it open those days.

[ldog]

I received my reply from HAL today. It's from Marybeth Rose, Special Advisor, Office of the President.

 

"We sincerely apologize for the dismay you have expressed and appreciate this opportunity to response (sic). Please be advised that a large group did indeed reserve the use of the Crow's Nest during specific hours while on board the ms ROTTERDAM. As you may know, Holland America Line reserves the right to accommodate large groups who wish to sail with us, but cannot anticipate the personal dissatisfaction that some guest may experience. Because our staff was contacted by some guests on board, we made every effort to limit and re-schedule the private group functions and so on behalf of those who voiced their concern. As such, with the exception of May 11th and May 13th during daytime hours, the Crow's Nest was open to everyone at all hours throughout the sailing. We hope this information is helpful to you. Thank you again for taking the time to provide us with your comments.

 

Thank you again for taking the time to provide us with you comments. (sic)"

 

My initial inclination was to write "Pants on fire!" on the letter and mail it back but I haven't yet.

 

Don't know what I'll do. This letter is so full of errors and differs so greatly from what Harbormaster wrote about the situation, but I guess it is the HAL party line. Denial, denial, denial.