Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

[cruznon]

How about standing near the auction area and loudly saying something like, "Wow! Park West is selling their stuff here now? Look, these are the same paintings they had last week at COSTCO!" :D

[Chivalrygirl]

I do not blame you for being upset. As all passengers are entiltled to use the common areas as part of passage. But be warned about Parkwest, I have been on cruises with Parkwest and their phony art auctions. They seem to be on all cruise lines now and are a MAJOR source of revenue for the cruise lines. Not only does HAL get the rental fee for the lounge but they get a percentage of all art sold too. The art "auctions" art not what they seem. You are lured into then with the promise of free cheap champagne or wine and they sell off cheap art prints at full retail to pax with little or no art buying knowledge. Parkwest boasts about how the artworks they sell will go up in value as an investment, the same BS all timshare salesmen use. Any one every bought a time share and sold it for more than you paid for it?

 

If more pax would refuse to participate in the phony art auctions Parkwest would go away and the Crows Nest would be for all to use and enjoy. Keep the complaints going to the HAL offices, but until HAL quits making revenue from Parkwest it will not change!!

 

Last September we met the young woman who was working for Park West on the Statendam in Skagway in a wine shop. She sent us special invitations to her next art auction, we went along, mainly for the free grog. During the course of the auction we won a print! Wow, but all she wanted was $US100 for postage for it to be sent down to NZ from Park West. She suggested seeing as be were travelling all the way to NZ it was possible we might win some more prints. However, one art auction for us was quite enough. At first everytime we ran into her she made a huge fuss of us, but by the time we got to Auckland, she would not speak to us and never gave us even a nod! Who she thought she was impressing beats me. Sadly, we did not come down in the last shower, I find it hard to believe that they sell any of this so called art. Full stop :D

[Cruisin Kay D]

Having been on 15 cruises all with art auctions, we've seen alot of UGLY artworks lining the hallways or in the lounge where auction held -- early on we once sat in the auction for about 45 min to 1 hr (for the champagne) and NEVER bought anything -- over all these cruises we've probably seen only 1 or 2 paintings/prints that we would even consider putting in my home. We have been so shocked that people continue to patrionize those stupid auctions!!! And yes, I will be real PO'd if they totally take over an area during our 10 nt cruise in October on Volendam.

[Odd Ball]

Is focus on the real issue being lost here ?

It makes no difference who the organization is, Park West or Joe's Softball team. The real issue is that Holland America blocked off the Crows Nest for the majority of hours each day.

[hammybee]

This goes to show you that we do not represent the majority of cruisers because the auctions are well attended and people are buying. In fact, many people cruise because they want to buy art.

 

With the exception of Princess, who has its own exclusive art dealer onboard, all mass marketed cruise lines use Park West @ Sea and art sold during cruises acccounts for the majority of Park West's revenue. The sailing gets a percentage of sales.

 

I am glad they are there and that other pax buy the stuff because it subsidizes my cruise.

[mamaofami]

IMO, the problem isn't that Park West sells art on the ships. It's that they were allowed to take over a popular venue for most of a particular cruise.

 

It's clear that there are many people buying this art or Park West wouldn't be there, and it's clear that HAL needs the money they represent. What isn't clear is why HAL allowed them to use the Crow's Nest for so many hours. There must be some other lounge that could be substituted for the Crow's Nest.

 

It's also unfornuate that HAL hasn't seen fit to respond and to seek a better solution to the problem. If they have, it would be great to appease everyone by at least letting us know that they are working on the problem.

[Odd Ball]

IMO, the problem isn't that Park West sells art on the ships. It's that they were allowed to take over a popular venue for most of a particular cruise.

 

It's clear that there are many people buying this art or Park West wouldn't be there, and it's clear that HAL needs the money they represent. What isn't clear is why HAL allowed them to use the Crow's Nest for so many hours. There must be some other lounge that could be substituted for the Crow's Nest.

 

It's also unfornuate that HAL hasn't seen fit to respond and to seek a better solution to the problem. If they have, it would be great to appease everyone by at least letting us know that they are working on the problem.

 

My point exactly........It isn't PW selling art on board, but the fact that Hal gave them the Crows Nest for many hours each day.

I believe they were allowed to take over the Crows Nest because PW had a group of VIP Buyers. Some kind of special group run by PW. Regardless, HAL allowed this, with no regard for the other passengers.

[twinkletoes4445]

How about standing near the auction area and loudly saying something like, "Wow! Park West is selling their stuff here now? Look, these are the same paintings they had last week at COSTCO!" :D

 

LOL...Now that's a great idea!!!

[twinkletoes4445]

My point exactly........It isn't PW selling art on board, but the fact that Hal gave them the Crows Nest for many hours each day.

I believe they were allowed to take over the Crows Nest because PW had a group of VIP Buyers. Some kind of special group run by PW. Regardless, HAL allowed this, with no regard for the other passengers.

 

That's exactly right...they had no regard for other passengers.

 

If the revenue from the cabins and other revenue (drinks, pics, excursions, etc) isn't enough for them to actually make enough money to cover the expense of a sailing, and they have to do something like this...then they should notify the passengers. Give us an option. It may not matter to some people, but they present this as a public space and it should not be closed off for the entire cruise to a special group. Otherwise, take it off the list of public spaces, and only have it available for a fee. People would probalby have a fit if they did this...lol...but HAL is being sneaky about it. What are you going to do? You're on a ship.

 

But I personally think this is just a way to make more money. Period. And until passengers complain, they'll keep doing it. And if they see that this isn't an issue...they'll try something else and see how that floats.

 

It really wouldn't bother me if they did this sort of thing in another lounge, because the Crow's Nest is a place that's really a special treat. Or maybe limit the hours they do this. Closing off the lounge for the entire day is wrong.

[twinkletoes4445]

IMO, the problem isn't that Park West sells art on the ships. It's that they were allowed to take over a popular venue for most of a particular cruise.

 

It's clear that there are many people buying this art or Park West wouldn't be there, and it's clear that HAL needs the money they represent. What isn't clear is why HAL allowed them to use the Crow's Nest for so many hours. There must be some other lounge that could be substituted for the Crow's Nest.

 

It's also unfornuate that HAL hasn't seen fit to respond and to seek a better solution to the problem. If they have, it would be great to appease everyone by at least letting us know that they are working on the problem.

 

HAL will do this until passengers that are denied access to the CN complain and it becomes clear to them that this isn't acceptable. I guess you can't blame them for trying (although I think it's bad business), but if they get away with this...then what's next?

 

I don't think anyone will hear from HAL about this and if they do, I think HAL will try and skirt around the issue. I called and talked to them about the CN issue. I've not heard anything from HAL. And it can't be because I didn't put it in writing...because after our cruise, there was an issue...I called as soon as we were home, and within a week or so, I had a letter from HAL addressing my problem.

 

I suppose if they stick their heads in the sand long enough...they think the problem will go away.

[jtl513]

Without further comment, here is an e-mail that I JUST received:

 

June 15, 2007

 

Mr. John Lxxxx

E-mail: jtloncc@bellsouth.net

RE: Case 109346

 

Dear Mr. Lxxxx,

 

Thank you for the e-mail regarding a recent ms ROTTERDAM cruise. We truly appreciate the valuable feedback you have provided us and welcome the opportunity to respond.

 

 

We understand that you are responding to Holland America Line based on comments you have read on “Cruise Critic”. We would like to share with you the information known to us in this matter.

There was a lot of misinformation on Cruise Critic. The ship has actually had 9 guests expressed concerns to the staff or via "We Care cards". Cruise Critic on the other hand had over 300 postings, maybe 400 by now, and over 11,000 "hits" to the message stream. Upon learning that there were a number of dissatisfied guests on board during this time that had expressed their complaints with ship staff, the schedule for reserving the venues in question was altered. With that knowledge, and with the cooperation of the group’s leaders, we re-scheduled group events on most days to accommodate all of our guests. With the exception of May 11 and 13 during the day, the Crow's Nest was open to all guests at all hours.

We are very sorry our group arrangements resulted in a less than extraordinary cruise experience for our guests. We are sorry this situation happened and we learned from it.

 

We do hope that this information has been helpful in understanding this situation and thank you again for taking the time to provide us with your comments. We look forward to serving you in the very near future.

 

Very truly yours,

 

Nancy Katt

Special Advisor

Office of the President

Nancy Katt

Special Advisor

Office of the President

1-800-599-8256; Fax 206-301-5327

[harbormaster]

The email is interesting for what it does not say. May 11th to 13th were the last days of the 12-day cruise which began May 2. We disembarked on the 14th. On May 12th, there were more than 900 people on excursions to Cairo and Alexandria - most of which lasted 10-12 hours-they did not have the opportunity to use the Crow's Nest.

 

May 11th and 13th were sea days when the Crow's Nest was unavailable. So, HAL opened the Crow's Nest for one day - the day everyone was gone (and disembarkation day).

 

Parsing words may sound effective, but it does not deal with the issue, nor does it address customer service. I would like to know how many comment cards FOLLOWING the cruise addressed the issue.

Perhaps they have learned from the issue - but their PR approach has not.

[Barkingowl]

I believe they were allowed to take over the Crows Nest because PW had a group of VIP Buyers. Some kind of special group run by PW. Regardless, HAL allowed this, with no regard for the other passengers.

 

Park West VIPs usually become VIP after they have spent a minimum of $20,000 in an auction at sea or a land auction.

 

I'm not familiar with your Crow's Nest but it sounds like a popular hangout.

Isn't there a way for the ship to allocate the space so that all parties are happy? :confused:

[gizmo]

Harbormaster,

 

Thanks for taking the time to post the letter.

 

Interesting doesn't even come close. :eek: I have to think about this so called response and post my thoughts at another time. :mad:

[jtl513]

Harbormaster,

 

Thanks for taking the time to post the letter.

HEY! That was me that posted the letter! :mad: But you're welcome! :D :D

[hammybee]

Harbormaster,

 

Thanks for taking the time to post the letter.

 

Interesting doesn't even come close. :eek: I have to think about this so called response and post my thoughts at another time. :mad:

 

Harbormaster was not the one posting. Instead, it was someone who read about the situation on this board. I wonder if this influenced the response. By this I mean, I am thinking that someone in Seattle is responding to a situation that the writer read about on a message board versus a first hand experience.

 

I have no doubt that most employees in Seattle have no idea what did or did not happen onboard, this particular cruise.

 

I have no doubt that this cruise had many vacant cabins and Park West VIPS filled those cabins and it was hoped that in doing so, the cruise would be profitable. HAL did not know, on final payment date that it was going to sail with vacant cabins, especially suites. This sounds very much like a last minute business decision made in Seattle.

 

Time will tell if this practice persists.

[twinkletoes4445]

Park West VIPs usually become VIP after they have spent a minimum of $20,000 in an auction at sea or a land auction.

 

I'm not familiar with your Crow's Nest but it sounds like a popular hangout.

Isn't there a way for the ship to allocate the space so that all parties are happy? :confused:

 

The Crow's Nest is this big lounge at the top and front of the ship. It's an awesome place to be and see what's going on around the ship.

 

The problem is it's a public space.

 

I think HAL ran this up the pole, and it didn't work. Hopefully, we won't be hearing about HAL doing this again.

[twinkletoes4445]

Regardless, HAL allowed this, with no regard for the other passengers. [/size][/font]

 

That's exactly what HAL did. I hope they have learned their lesson. I guess we'll see.

[gizmo]

Jtl513,

 

Sorry about that. It was you who posted the letter, so let me thank you for taking the time. :)

[Mary Ellen]

I think HAL ran this up the pole, and it didn't work. Hopefully, we won't be hearing about HAL doing this again.

From what our friends/neighbors experienced on he Oosterdam in Dec '07, this was not the first time that HAL has done this. On our friends' cruise a Poker Tournament group had the Crow's Nest 24-hrs a day - for the entire cruise. They weren't part of the group, so they never were able to enjoy the Crow's Nest. HAL's done it before, I won't be surprised if they do it again. :mad:

[gizmo]

I have no doubt that most employees in Seattle have no idea what did or did not happen onboard, this particular cruise.

 

I have no doubt that this cruise had many vacant cabins and Park West VIPS filled those cabins and it was hoped that in doing so, the cruise would be profitable. HAL did not know, on final payment date that it was going to sail with vacant cabins, especially suites. This sounds very much like a last minute business decision made in Seattle.

 

Time will tell if this practice persists.

 

I agree that some of the employees in Seattle have no idea what happened.

 

I don't agree with your other speculations. We don't know if there were empty cabins or if that had anything to do with PW sponsering a VIP cruise for their customers. All this speculation doesn't justify what happened.

 

The fact is PW had exclusive use of the Crows Nest for most of the day. :mad:

The letter danced around the real issues and said nada!!!!

Perhaps Nancy should re-read this entire thread.

 

Did they learn from this ? Only time will tell.

[RedmondCruiser]

The e-mail response from HAL shows that they are still in denial. The company line is that they only got nine "I CARE CARDS" I've sailed for close to 300 days with HAL and I have never seen an "I CARE CARD" It sounds like one of those great ideas that comes from a newly minted MBA after a 5 martini lunch (its called a complaint card) They ignore the true measure of passenger discontent, which would be the number of comments made to the front desk.

 

My gut feeling is that this situation has been rationized by those in the head office and it will be repeated again. The only thing is I hope I am not on that cruise.

[twinkletoes4445]

From what our friends/neighbors experienced on he Oosterdam in Dec '07, this was not the first time that HAL has done this. On our friends' cruise a Poker Tournament group had the Crow's Nest 24-hrs a day - for the entire cruise. They weren't part of the group, so they never were able to enjoy the Crow's Nest. HAL's done it before, I won't be surprised if they do it again. :mad:

 

That's terrible for your friends.

 

You're right...this will most likely happen again. HAL will pull this sort of thing as long as they can get away with it. They'll try and downplay it and hope everyone goes away and forgets about this sort of thing.

 

If they want to close off a public area for the entire cruise, then they should just make the Crow's Nest a place you can rent. Don't even mention it as being available to the cruisers. They are very sly about this.

[twinkletoes4445]

The e-mail response from HAL shows that they are still in denial. The company line is that they only got nine "I CARE CARDS" I've sailed for close to 300 days with HAL and I have never seen an "I CARE CARD" It sounds like one of those great ideas that comes from a newly minted MBA after a 5 martini lunch (its called a complaint card) They ignore the true measure of passenger discontent, which would be the number of comments made to the front desk.

 

My gut feeling is that this situation has been rationized by those in the head office and it will be repeated again. The only thing is I hope I am not on that cruise.

 

They are in denial.

 

Someone somewhere (maybe the MBA with his martinis...lol) thought they'd toss this out and see if it floats. And it sounds like they've done this before. But they better be careful, because they could lose their loyal following...and end up with a lot of ship space to fill with charters or special groups...because the individual cruiser isn't going care for being treated like this.

 

And I hope I am not on a cruise where this happens. And we so much enjoyed our cruise...but I would have been SO unhappy had I found out that the Crow's Nest was "rented out" to a group. And I don't care how special they are or how much money they spend...if they are that special, then HAL should only look for bookings from them...not from the rest of us. Let them fill all the ships with these people. Good luck.

[twinkletoes4445]

I agree that some of the employees in Seattle have no idea what happened.

 

I don't agree with your other speculations. We don't know if there were empty cabins or if that had anything to do with PW sponsering a VIP cruise for their customers. All this speculation doesn't justify what happened.

 

The fact is PW had exclusive use of the Crows Nest for most of the day. :mad:

The letter danced around the real issues and said nada!!!!

Perhaps Nancy should re-read this entire thread.

 

Did they learn from this ? Only time will tell.

 

Ditto.