17 People robbed on Conquest Jamaica excursion

[Texas_Diver]

 

I'm not sure how I feel about CCL paying for the additional counseling. If I'm mugged in the streets of NYC I don't expect NYC to pay for my counseling. Something to consider though.

 

quote]

 

The major difference being....NYC is not guaranteeing your safety on their streets! I feel Carnival put the responsibility on themself when they issued guarantees.

 

A.

[Stircrzy]

I thought that travel agents were not to advertise here... yours has the name of your agency as well as your certifications. I can't take advice about my safety from someone who stands to make $$ from my business.

 

 

Joe has been a great source of advice and knowledge here, and as GC said, is working within the guidelines of this board. He's never pushed the boundaries of the guidelines.

 

If you wouldn't take advice about your safety "from someone who stands to make $$ from you", who WOULD you take advice from?

 

I depend on the advice of my travel agent (and it isn't Joe!).

[hmstins]

Go back and look at the post by Houtx1559 -- he's got it all the way right. I'm thinking he is a Houston police offer with 31 years experience, including Interpol. Not too hard to interpret, hope I got it right.

 

I too live in Houston and know that these guys face lots of scum every day. HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. They put their life in danger when they make a traffic stop and even worse. Why you head-in-the-sand folks keep saying it can happen anywhere just amazes me. I have been in over 30 countries on cruises, and have never felt more in danger than in Jamaica.

 

It DOES happen every day in Jamaica. Why are you worried about who should pay for the counseling? Why are you stating that it can happen in every city? THAT IS NOT THE POINT. The point is that anyone who goes go Jamaica knowing the circumstances there is completely naive and needs to have their head examined. It is not a safe place. If you think it is, be my guest and go. Just don't come whining to me when you or someone you are with get/s robbed, raped, beat up, or heaven forbid killed. It happens every day to tourists and you just don't hear about it. Why? Because it is a totally and completely corrupt country and the only money is made on drugs and tourism. You want to vacation in a spot that exists on drug money? Go right ahead, be my guest, stupid.

[Stircrzy]

The major difference being....NYC is not guaranteeing your safety on their streets! I feel Carnival put the responsibility on themself when they issued guarantees.

 

A.

 

Actually...Carnival doesn't guarantee your safety.

 

From Carnival FAQ:

 

Does Carnival own the tour companies in the ports and is it responsible for what happens on the shore excursions?

No.

All of the shore excursions, including any related transportation, are operated by local independent companies and they are solely responsible for their products, excursions and any related transportation. We try to choose the most reputable companies available to provide your excursions. Carnival is not responsible for any losses, damage, death, injuries or claims whatsoever arising from, connected with, or related to any activities engaged in by guests while off of Carnival’s ships or tenders in any port of call. This includes all shore excursions, whether sold onboard or by third parties ashore.

You will engage in all such activities off of the ship at your own risk.

Carnival acts only as an agent for the independent tour operators supplying excursions or services. Carnival neither supervises nor controls their actions, nor makes any representation either expressed or implied as to their suitability. Carnival sells tickets for all excursions as a convenience to guests only. Tour operators, transportation providers, and their employees are neither agents nor employees of Carnival, not withstanding their use of any signage or clothing which may contain the name “Carnival” or other related trade names or logos.

[Texas_Diver]

Just don't come whining to me when you or someone you are with get/s robbed, raped, beat up, or heaven forbid killed. It happens every day to tourists and you just don't hear about it. Why? Because it is a totally and completely corrupt country and the only money is made on drugs and tourism. You want to vacation in a spot that exists on drug money? Go right ahead, be my guest, stupid.

 

Can you just state your opinion without being rude?

 

A.

[bluebonnet]

Ravekid...........can I just say wow!! You are a sympathetic soul aren't you. If this had happened to you as it did to me I promise you that you would feel completely different and I would have nothing but compassion for you at this point. World is made of all sorts of souls!!!

 

TexasDiver..........that is our point exactly, Carnival guarantees safety when taking a tour through them and not a local tour guide. Which is now what I wished we had done!!

 

snoozeman...........I can definitely see your point!

 

Goincruisin.............thank you!!! Counseling is for the traumatized daughter!

[Texas_Diver]

Actually...Carnival doesn't guarantee your safety.

 

 

According to some of the people on the ship, those are the exact words used in the pre-port meeting. Something like, "We can only guarantee your safety if you use a ship sponsored tour." So yes they did.

 

A

[GoinCruisin]

 

I'm not sure how I feel about CCL paying for the additional counseling. If I'm mugged in the streets of NYC I don't expect NYC to pay for my counseling. Something to consider though.

 

 

 

The major difference being....NYC is not guaranteeing your safety on their streets! I feel Carnival put the responsibility on themself when they issued guarantees.

 

A.

 

See, that is the one part that gets me... I have NEVER heard anyone say that Carnival guaranteed your safety if you booked one of their excursions. That CD, if he said that (and the excursion talk is taped), should be fired.

 

Carnival makes it QUITE clear that they are not responsible, and there is no implied guarantee of safety (it is here, and in the contract)... so if I were Carnival, I'd be reviewing the tape where the CD "guaranteed their safety"... I can't even imagine why he would say something like that!!!!!!

 

Does Carnival own the tour companies in the ports and is it responsible for what happens on the shore excursions?No. All of the shore excursions, including any related transportation, are operated by local independent companies and they are solely responsible for their products, excursions and any related transportation. We try to choose the most reputable companies available to provide your excursions. Carnival is not responsible for any losses, damage, death, injuries or claims whatsoever arising from, connected with, or related to any activities engaged in by guests while off of Carnival’s ships or tenders in any port of call. This includes all shore excursions, whether sold onboard or by third parties ashore. You will engage in all such activities off of the ship at your own risk.

Carnival acts only as an agent for the independent tour operators supplying excursions or services. Carnival neither supervises nor controls their actions, nor makes any representation either expressed or implied as to their suitability. Carnival sells tickets for all excursions as a convenience to guests only. Tour operators, transportation providers, and their employees are neither agents nor employees of Carnival, not withstanding their use of any signage or clothing which may contain the name “Carnival” or other related trade names or logos.

[GoinCruisin]

Ravekid...........can I just say wow!! You are a sympathetic soul aren't you. If this had happened to you as it did to me I promise you that you would feel completely different and I would have nothing but compassion for you at this point. World is made of all sorts of souls!!!

 

TexasDiver..........that is our point exactly, Carnival guarantees safety when taking a tour through them and not a local tour guide. Which is now what I wished we had done!!

 

snoozeman...........I can definitely see your point!

 

Goincruisin.............thank you!!! Counseling is for the traumatized daughter!

 

No problem!!

 

But, like I said, Carnival does NOT come CLOSE to guaranteeing safety... on their excursions, or on their ship for that matter, LOL... I'm sure there will be an investigation into the tape if the CD implied this... that is a HUGE no no... if he said it, he needs to be gone.

[Texas_Diver]

See, that is the one part that gets me... I have NEVER heard anyone say that Carnival guaranteed your safety if you booked one of their excursions. That CD, if he said that (and the excursion talk is taped), should be fired.

 

.

 

Well, since we were not on this particular cruise to know if he said it or not, I choose to believe the ones that were there that said he did. Besides, I have been on Conquest before and heard the pre-Jamaica safety guaranteed talk.

 

A.

[Stircrzy]

According to some of the people on the ship, those are the exact words used in the pre-port meeting. Something like, "We can only guarantee your safety if you use a ship sponsored tour." So yes they did.

 

A

 

Their CONTRACT, as stated FROM THEIR WEBSITE, does NOT guarantee anything.

 

Read it...regardless of what a CD might "say". They've covered their heineys in their written and published FAQ...unless somebody has a tape of that CD!

 

That's why I quit using their excursions. If I don't have any guarantee, I may as well choose a tour company I have PERSONALLY researched.

[GoinCruisin]

Well, since we were not on this particular cruise to know if he said it or not, I choose to believe the ones that were there that said he did. Besides, I have been on Conquest before and heard the pre-Jamaica safety guaranteed talk.

 

A.

 

I didn't say I didn't believe them, LOL... just said that Carnival makes it VERY clear they are not guaranteeing your safety... Perhaps it was worded in a way that made people think that? I can buy that... but not a CD making that guarantee over and over again. I'm sure Carnival will do a thorough investigation now that this claim is out there... and if he said it, he'll be dealt with. I hope nobody thinks their safety is EVER guaranteed!!!!! That is an absolute IMPOSSIBLE thing to guarantee!!!!! Especially in a foreign country...

[Glama]

And you don't think tourists are targeted in Miami?!?! Several years back, gangs were targeting tourists as they drove away from the airport and got lost. Two German tourist were killed! Foreign tourist won't come back for a trial and most American's wouldn't either. I feel more afraid for my life when I walk the streets of New York City then when I am in Jamaica!

 

Of course I know that tourists get robbed everywhere, BUT, in Jamaica, there are only so many tourists on any given day taking certain excursions. Our chances of something happening, in a country which targets tourists and has a horrible crime record against tourists is MUCH greater than our chances of being a victim in a place like NYC or Miami, where there are hundreds of thousands more people for them to "choose" from.

 

I've been to Jamaica twice, didn't love it, didn't hate it, would go again (booked for next Nov, as a matter of fact). Still, because of this crime, and researching, I'm not going to feel as comfortable as I have in the past. I'm glad that many people here feel perfectly safe there, I respect that, just as I'd hope others would respect those of us who are a bit on edge about going there.

[nrdsb4]

I didn't say I didn't believe them, LOL... just said that Carnival makes it VERY clear they are not guaranteeing your safety... Perhaps it was worded in a way that made people think that? I can buy that... but not a CD making that guarantee over and over again. I'm sure Carnival will do a thorough investigation now that this claim is out there... and if he said it, he'll be dealt with. I hope nobody thinks their safety is EVER guaranteed!!!!! That is an absolute IMPOSSIBLE thing to guarantee!!!!! Especially in a foreign country...

 

 

This a very important point. The CD should never have said that they would guarantee anyone's safety. But seriously, anyone who believes such a statement regardless of who makes it is being a bit naive. NO ONE anywhere can ever guarantee your safety whether it is going on a cruise ship excursion or walking into a friend's home for dinner. There is NO such thing as absolutely safety anywhere, anytime. EVER.

 

This is the one thing I had a problem with in the Bluebonnet letter. A law enforcement officer of 17 year's standing should have known how ridiculous such a claim was. In any case, I'm so sorry this happened to him, his family and the others involved. Very scary.

[travmagic]

Can you just state your opinion without being rude?

 

A.

 

The point is that anyone who goes go Jamaica knowing the circumstances there is completely naive and needs to have their head examined. It is not a safe place. If you think it is, be my guest and go. Just don't come whining to me when you or someone you are with get/s robbed, raped, beat up, or heaven forbid killed. It happens every day to tourists and you just don't hear about it. Why? Because it is a totally and completely corrupt country and the only money is made on drugs and tourism. You want to vacation in a spot that exists on drug money? Go right ahead, be my guest, stupid.

Evidently NOT:rolleyes: !

[nrdsb4]

Go back and look at the post by Houtx1559 -- he's got it all the way right. I'm thinking he is a Houston police offer with 31 years experience, including Interpol. Not too hard to interpret, hope I got it right.

 

I too live in Houston and know that these guys face lots of scum every day. HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT. They put their life in danger when they make a traffic stop and even worse. Why you head-in-the-sand folks keep saying it can happen anywhere just amazes me. I have been in over 30 countries on cruises, and have never felt more in danger than in Jamaica.

 

It DOES happen every day in Jamaica. Why are you worried about who should pay for the counseling? Why are you stating that it can happen in every city? THAT IS NOT THE POINT. The point is that anyone who goes go Jamaica knowing the circumstances there is completely naive and needs to have their head examined. It is not a safe place. If you think it is, be my guest and go. Just don't come whining to me when you or someone you are with get/s robbed, raped, beat up, or heaven forbid killed. It happens every day to tourists and you just don't hear about it. Why? Because it is a totally and completely corrupt country and the only money is made on drugs and tourism. You want to vacation in a spot that exists on drug money? Go right ahead, be my guest, stupid.

 

 

Okay, I promise, if I am ever killed I will not come whining to you. Thank you very much.:)

[Snoozeman]

Snoozeman, you have my complete sympathies.

 

Thanks, but didn't happen to me--it's bluebonnet.

[gtalum]

If the CD or Super Shopper made the claim of a guarantee of safety and the victims can prove it, they may get a settlement out of Carnival. I suspect that CD and/or Super Shopper will be in hot water with Carnival as well. As has been noted above, all of Carnival's documentation makes very clear that they have no liability once you step off the ship, and very little when you're onboard. But an employee's "guarantee" can help the victims pierce those disclaimers.

 

That said, I have never been to Jamaica but I won't avoid it because of this incident. I would, as in other ports, limit what I take with me when leaving the ship, though. Just passports, S&S cards, a little cash, and a single credit card.

[GoinCruisin]

If the CD or Super Shopper made the claim of a guarantee of safety and the victims can prove it, they may get a settlement out of Carnival. I suspect that CD and/or Super Shopper will be in hot water with Carnival as well. As has been noted above, all of Carnival's documentation makes very clear that they have no liability once you step off the ship, and very little when you're onboard. But an employee's "guarantee" can help the victims pierce those disclaimers.

 

That said, I have never been to Jamaica but I won't avoid it because of this incident. I would, as in other ports, limit what I take with me when leaving the ship, though. Just passports, S&S cards, a little cash, and a single credit card.

 

 

Although the constant playing of the "port safety" talk gets on my NERVES every single cruise... this is one case where it will actually come in handy! I agree, if the tape shows him saying that or implying that, the people may have a settlement.

 

But I also agree that anyone who thinks they are safe ANYWHERE based on someones word, is naive. Someone could have dropped a bomb on Jamaica... a hurricane could have come up, etc. Nobody can EVER guarantee your safety... ever.

[gtalum]

Although the constant playing of the "port safety" talk gets on my NERVES every single cruise... this is one case where it will actually come in handy! I agree, if the tape shows him saying that or implying that, the people may have a settlement.

 

But I also agree that anyone who thinks they are safe ANYWHERE based on someones word, is naive. Someone could have dropped a bomb on Jamaica... a hurricane could have come up, etc. Nobody can EVER guarantee your safety... ever.

 

For once, we are in 100% complete agreement. The Carnival employee should not have guaranteed safety, and the guests should not have believed it.

[Texas_Diver]

This a very important point. The CD should never have said that they would guarantee anyone's safety. But seriously, anyone who believes such a statement regardless of who makes it is being a bit naive. NO ONE anywhere can ever guarantee your safety whether it is going on a cruise ship excursion or walking into a friend's home for dinner. There is NO such thing as absolutely safety anywhere, anytime. EVER.

 

This is the one thing I had a problem with in the Bluebonnet letter. A law enforcement officer of 17 year's standing should have known how ridiculous such a claim was. In any case, I'm so sorry this happened to him, his family and the others involved. Very scary.

 

Of course no one can guarantee nothing will happen to you. BUT when a company spokesperson does just that....issue a guarantee....now the company has some responsibility even if that employee will be fired.

 

With me, the issue is not whether or not safety CAN be guaranteed (we all know that answer), it is the fact that is WAS guaranteed. That shifts some responsibility to Carnival.

 

A.

[crusinmama06]

bluebonnet - My heart goes out to you and your family. I just couldn't even imagine the horror you must have felt.

 

I have said it many times on this board...Mo Bay is the ONLY port that I ever chose to stay onboard (this past May on Freedom of the Seas)

 

I won't do another cruise that has Jamaica on it's itinerary.

 

No, I am not saying that all of the other ports are safe. But this is one port that I have NO desire to take the risk for.

[bluebonnet]

bluebonnet - My heart goes out to you and your family. I just couldn't even imagine the horror you must have felt.

 

I have said it many times on this board...Mo Bay is the ONLY port that I ever chose to stay onboard (this past May on Freedom of the Seas)

 

I won't do another cruise that has Jamaica on it's itinerary.

 

No, I am not saying that all of the other ports are safe. But this is one port that I have NO desire to take the risk for.

 

Crusinmama............thanks!!! I definitely want to go on another cruise some day but chances are it will be one not stopping in Jamaica!

[bluebonnet]

Of course no one can guarantee nothing will happen to you. BUT when a company spokesperson does just that....issue a guarantee....now the company has some responsibility even if that employee will be fired.

 

With me, the issue is not whether or not safety CAN be guaranteed (we all know that answer), it is the fact that is WAS guaranteed. That shifts some responsibility to Carnival.

 

A.

 

TexasDivers..........yes on the CD taped tour talk he assured safety in taking a Carnival excursion. Maybe he did not use the word guarantee. These two guys that apprehended our tour knew this excursion well and when we would be passing through this densely foliaged area because they were waiting and were there at the exact time we passed by. So they had cased the excursion before. Otherwise how would they have known a group of cruise passengers would have been coming through. This was not random it was planned on their part!!

[Mikel1733]

It would be interesting to know what response the Jamaican Department of Tourism would give this thread? Is it against the rules of this site to send a link to them and ask for a response, or will the thread be around long enough?:confused: