17 People robbed on Conquest Jamaica excursion

[Hedocple]

Why are you saying that I should stay locked up in my house???? I choose not to put our life at risk in Jamaica...esp. since this happened. You can`t even compare Target or other department stores to Jamaica.Jamaica is a poor country with alot of crime...look up Jamaica`s news..you might be surprised.

 

You just don't get it do you? Obviously not comparing Target to Jamaica just stating that crime can happen anywhere including places you would never expect it too. I was using the example of the 19 year old girl killed recently. You did see that in the U.S. news?

And because the U.S. is a prosperous country we have no crime...right?

[BillnBobbi]

Guess I'll have to stay away from Kansas also....heh heh :rolleyes:

 

I've never heard anyone say, "Let's go to Kansas for our vacation".

 

BnB

[In the Pink]

You just don't get it do you? Obviously not comparing Target to Jamaica just stating that crime can happen anywhere including places you would never expect it too. I was using the example of the 19 year old girl killed recently. You did see that in the U.S. news?

And because the U.S. is a prosperous country we have no crime...right?

 

 

And obviously you just don't get that the crime RATE is the important factor. Things do happen in the US, there's no where that's safe from crime, but as I said earlier, it's the FREQUENCY that's important. Would you rather be somewhere where it happens once every 10 years, once a year, or once a week? And although even in other ports people get pick pocketed, or held up, or drugged, etc., there is no hue and cry to quit going because they are occasional incidents. What makes Jamaica different is that it happens sooooooo frequently, and more violently.

 

When you're on vacation, you want to relax and have fun. In any foreign country, a certain level of caution is prudent, however, if so many people feel so unsafe as to not want to leave the ship, then there is no point in the ships going there.

[travmagic]

You can wax this however you want, but bottom line is that Jamaica is a trouble spot right now. We've run across some very lovely people during our visits there, but for the most part, we encountered just the opposite. Even the ones who were "civil" exuded a forced civility. Some know where their bread is buttered, but it doesn't mean they have to like it. Just imagine living the life they live and having to kiss butt to survive. You can feel the resentment.

 

We gained quite a bit of insight from a Jamaican driver we hired in Grand Cayman. He was a lovely, gentle soul with great love for his country...but even he alluded to the fact that the ships are targets and that you cannot count on the local authorities to help out in a lot of situations.

 

And, just prior to our first trip to Jamaica, we were given some advice from an acquaintance who spent a month there doing missionary type work after one of the hurricanes. He was very compassionate about the living conditions and the dependence on the tourism industry of a lot of good, honest people, yet he made no bones about the fact that he would never vacation there.

 

Just food for thought...

 

(And for the record, we took a catamaran excursion to Dunn River Falls in Ocho Rios right off the port dock, walked over to Margaritaville afterwards, and for the most part, felt relatively safe, even though we were approached numerous times. In Montego Bay, we winged it the first time with a cab driver, a beach and Margaritaville. There is no way I would do that again under current conditions, even though we had a wonderful, informative, attentive driver...it wasn't worth the rest of the harassment and unease we encountered. The Margaritaville there wasn't that great anyway...at least the one in Ocho Rios was worth a little effort. The trips to Sunset Beach were hassle free every time. I would never go anywhere else there, especially when our children are with us. Just my take on things).

Thank you very much for this post. Although I don't feel the way you do (for reasons I stated in my last post) you have not insulted the Jamaicans as a whole. And you also stated some very nice experiences you have had your self.

Instead of calling Jamaica "the armpit" or some of the other nasty things that have been said you simply said that it was a trouble spot right now.

Very nicely put.

[lornadoons]

yes, this is getting kind of ridiculous. We could all sit here and write about every city and town in the US, Target and Walmart parking lots included ;) but I don't know about you all, but I've heard about how bad Jamaica has been since I was in high school, and at 50, that's been a long while! I did hear years back that they were making an effort to clean up their act, and maybe they have in a way. I wouldn't know because this was our first visit.

I do know that I've been to many, many different destinations other than Jamaica and I would never go back... not just because of the crime, but it just didn't appeal to me as a vacation spot I would pay to spend time. Yes, our driver was fine, the guides at Dunns were great, especially ours, who was very attentive and worried about our safety climbing the falls. He was there in a second if anyone in our line slipped. The "hawkers", once you tried to exit were aggressive and just wanted our money, but we just shrugged them off even if they did follow us. They need to survive and selling is their business. We got that. Butttt.... There are sooooo many other nicer, friendly, more beautiful places in the world. My 2 cents. I will probably get copied and quoted, but this is why we have this forum....

[Mikel1733]

We were in Montego Bay a few years ago and I am wondering if we were in the central shopping center. We had gone on a cruise sponsored trip to Rosehall Mansion and then we stopped in the downtown area. It was regular buildings on a hill. Does this sound like the place?

 

Sounds like being in a large group in itself isn't protective. The CD's and super shoppers on the ship need to make all cruisers aware of current situations.

[bmw mama]

You just don't get it do you? Obviously not comparing Target to Jamaica just stating that crime can happen anywhere including places you would never expect it too. I was using the example of the 19 year old girl killed recently. You did see that in the U.S. news?

And because the U.S. is a prosperous country we have no crime...right?

 

I got it ????:rolleyes: Yes, I know there is crime everywhere...I do read the newspaper daily... but, Jamaica is a terrible place for a cruise ship to stop.

[bluebonnet]

This letter was written by one of my fellow shore excursion friends that was robbed along with me. We are only trying to get the message out and plus it contains some info on Carnival. To this point no one has updated us on the progress of the investigation and I have been told to be patient by the Carnival Guest Serivces rep......hard to be patient when we are so far from the crime location now!!

 

 

 

Here is a letter that I worked on for anyone I can get it to. Also, we found some information on Carnival. They have about 11.2 million people that Cruise a year. In 2003 their civil suits peaked at approximately 500. They have like 9 attorneys on staff. It appears as though they think their invincible. They don't like publicity and that is why they plead everything out before trial. They also switched over to federal courts in an attempt to discourage attorneys from filing.

 

 

 

To:

HeraldEd@MiamiHerald.com

 

To whom it may concern,

 

My name is………….. I need help to get information out.

 

On 06-10-2007 my family (including my 12yoa son and 10 yoa daughter) and I set sail on Carnival Conquest out of Galveston, Texas. This was our first cruise and we were looking forward to spending some great quality time as a family. The first stop was Jamaica, where my children and wife lost their safety and innocents.

 

We elected to take the Carnival excursion that was called the Lethe Village tour that would take us into the culture of the Jamaican natives. We had no idea how this decision would change our lives forever.

 

I am a 17 year police veteran and I was an ARMY service man prior to my law enforcement career. Safety and protection is my number one goal with anyone, and especially my wife and children. With this in mind, I attended the excursion meeting that was held on the ship by the cruise director, Mr. Price.

 

During the excursion meeting, the director's exact words were " In order to see the true Jamaica, you have to take a Carnival Shore Excursion" He also stated " The Carnival Shore Excursions are guaranteed Safe". He told us that around the port city, you may have some undesirables try to sell you marijuana or bug you about taking a cab. He explained to us that the red tag cabs were the only registered cabs, but continued to push us to take a Carnival Excursion for the guaranteed safety.

 

After the excursion meeting, I was secure in my decision to take the Carnival excursion. I now know that it is guaranteed safe.

 

We pulled into the Jamaican Port of Montego Bay on the 13th of June 2007.

 

My family loaded up on the excursion bus with 13 others making a total of 17. We were all ready to see the banana plantation called the Lethe Village Tour.

 

We drove approximately 30-40 minutes into the country of Lethe, Hanover, for our Carnival Excursion. On the way, we saw signs of extreme poverty and I had a gut feeling that we were not safe at all.

 

We arrived at the plantation and met some very nice people who showed a few things about bananas and coconuts.

 

They loaded us onto a green and yellow trolley that was connected to what appeared to be an old John Deer tractor. The excursion tour guide then turned us over to an elderly Jamaican plantation worker, who stated that his name was Dalton. He was a very nice elderly man.

 

Dalton then pulled us on the trolley further into the plantation that was surrounded by lush, thick jungle vegetation. My guard was down as my family and I looked at all of the beautiful flowers and tropical plants.

 

Dalton arrived at an area, where he got off the tractor and gave us a very educational lesson about the banana tree and how it is used in Jamaica. It was very interesting and entertaining.

 

After the banana tree lesson, Dalton loaded back up and began pulling us through the plantation towards a botanical garden , where they were going to show us some beautiful flowers and listen to a kindergarten class sing to us. My two children were so excited and we were all having a great time.

 

As we traveled through the plantation, we came up to a side road to our right that was also surrounded with vegetation. It was here that our world came crashing down.

 

From the direction of the side road, two Jamaican men ambushed our trolley, approaching with guns and a knife. They immediately took control of our lives, pointing a pistol at the driver and ordering him to stop. He stopped, exited the tractor and trembled like no other. He just plead the two men not to hurt anyone.

 

The two gunmen began cursing us all, calling us " ******g Foreigners..Give us your ******g money, man. Don't **** with us, man, we're ******g crazy" One took the left side and the other took the right. I am normally pretty good at telling what kind of narcotic someone is on, but these guys were on something I was not familiar with. They were straight up crazy and aggressive.

 

My two children were sitting behind me and my wife, next to my step-mother and my 67 yoa father, who has had two major heart attacks. The last one being in July of 2006.

 

I turned to see one of the gunmen placing an 8" revolver in the face of my 10 year old daughter, who was more hysterical than anyone I had ever seen. My daughter was pleading with the gunman to not kill her. She made this plea over and over again with tears rushing from her wide open blue eyes. I have never been so helpless in my life. It made me physically sick to my stomach and I wanted to hold her so bad. The gunman just kept the gun in her face as he stole her disposable camera and my sons disposable camera that he was using to take pictures for his favorite teacher. The gunman was ripping my children's since of safety and their innocents straight out of their little hearts. He has no idea how he just impacted their lives.

 

The gunmen continued to degrade us with curse words and stealing money, credit cards, ID's, jewelry, cameras, and any thing they could.

 

The gunmen disappeared back into the jungle, leaving my family and the other victims, who were all shaken and violated.

 

The shaken driver pulled us back to the starting point, where we exited the trolley and told other tourist of our nightmare. They all loaded back up on their buses and fled back to the Carnival Conquest, leaving us at the plantation.

 

After approximately 20 minutes the Jamaican police arrive. There were 4 to a car. As they exited their cars, officers had pistols in hand and then slid them into their front pockets. There were no holsters. I was worried that this crime would go unsolved.

 

The owner of the plantation, however, was running for the Ministry of Tourism. I believed this got the police really hopping. They stated that they were contacting the other local villages and giving them our descriptions of the gunmen. I found out later that the two gunmen tried to exit the jungle around 10:00PM about two miles away. The police were there and they had a shoot out, killing one of the gunmen. The second gunman got away.

 

After approximately 3 hours we were transported back to the Carnival Conquest, where some of the crew shuffled us back onto the ship and into a de-briefing room. They apologized and stated they had no idea that something like this could happen to us.

 

After the de-briefing, we were released back to the cruise. We then began hearing from Carnival employees that they know how dangerous Jamaica is and that they do not leave the ship. Every employee I spoke with stated that they do not leave because they fear for their safety, yet Carnival allowed us to leave and guaranteed our safety.

 

Carnival brought a Crisis Intervention Therapist on board, who met with us. She stayed on the ship all the way back to Galveston. At the end of the cruise, she recommended that our family seek further counseling in order to deal with this traumatic event. My wife and I agreed.

 

I had a letter on my cabin bed from the CEO of Carnival, stating that they apologize for the incident and stated that Guest Relation Supervisor, Dorothy Georges, would be standing by for our phone calls on Monday morning (06-18-2007).

 

I called Monday to find out how the additional counseling would be handled. Ms. Georges was not available. I left a message.

 

Georges called back and I explained my concerns and asked how we could get the counseling paid for by Carnival and her first words were " Well how many sessions and how much will they cost". I became upset and stated I did not know. Later, Georges stated she could not tell me if Carnival would pay for the counseling. She stated that she would not have and answer for a few days. I was even more upset, thinking that if it was their 10 year old baby girl that had a gun shoved in her face and had to plea for her life, they would have immediately said yes to counseling. At this point Carnival, became strictly business. There was no compassion.

 

I know that Carnival is in the business to make money. I know that Jamaica pays for Carnival to port at their country. I know that the excursions put more money in Carnival's pocket. Carnival knows how unsafe Jamaica is, but they continue to take thousands of tourist there a week and guarantee their safety. It is time that they stop.

 

I want everyone who is thinking about traveling to Jamaica, to stop. It is not worth the risk. If a 17 year police veteran can be held up in the countryside of Jamaica, anyone can. Look on the Internet about robberies and deaths in Jamaica. You will be surprised. They prey on the tourist. They know that they all carry money, they don' know anyone and they do not have weapons. The tour guide said they make about 50 - 100 dollars a week. The two gunmen that robbed us got away with approximately 2- 3 thousand. That word will get around. There will be more excursion robberies. The poverty is too low, the risk is worth the pay.

[shesha]

Very sad this happened but there is crime everywhere. I think Jamaica has gotten a bad rap. I think it is wise to go to places that are guarded and be more cautious. But I wouldnt stop going to Jamaica just because of this. Just like we dont stop going to New York, we just avoid the subways at night.

[Ravekid]

I think you are living with blinders on if you think crime everywhere else is a once in a blue moon situation. Latest statistics for the city of Miami where a lot of cruises originate shows an overall crime index of 7585.7 incidents per 100,000 people. The figure for Fort Lauderdale is 7557.6. The city of Hartford, CT, far removed from the cruise world and the insurance capital of the US had three murders in the last week. Crime happens everywhere but when it happens in a tourist area, the press is right there. I have spent time in Montego Bay, Ocho Rios, Runaway Bay and Negril. I have been out on the local streets and talked to the local people. Never have I felt threatened or afraid.

 

I totally disagree. At least in Hartford, CT and Fort Lauderdale, there is some justice and a working criminal justice system. Yes, crime is everywhere, but not every place with a population of just under 3,000,000 has over 1,000 _known_ murders and killings. I live in Indy and we are having record crime, for various reasons. That being said, the Indy metro population is just over 1,000,000. If we are going to paint every place as equal, we should be having 300 or more. The fact is, Jamacia is a turd world $#!t hole. Yes, certain areas of certain major cities are no better, but at least you can trust the vast majority of police in the states. Not only that, I can carry weapons here if I feel the need.

 

Comparing _all_ crimes to armed robbery is NOT fair. Hell, Detroit is about the biggest cesspool in the US and even during their worst years. Even then, the vast majority of killings in US major cities are between people who know each other. They are either domestic or black market related. If you take these homicides out, you end up with a small number of 100% un-related innocent folks being killed. These are your bank tellers, shop owners, cab drivers, etc. who just were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

I have only been on one cruise and we went to the Bahamas, St. Marteen, and St. Thomas. I really only felt "unsafe" in the Bahamas, but seeing a few police cars and knowing there was a cop at the McDonalds close by made me feel a little better. Obviously the Bahamas isn't the greatest when you need armed guards everywhere, but at least it looked like they take a pro-active stance.

 

I honestly have no desire to ever go back to any of the warm weather ports. I have heard too many stories to even attempt to believe that any of these places are 100% safe. The US, British, etc. controlled places seem 100% better than the others. I have no desire to ever travel to Mexico. My sisters friend was shaken down by the cops and had to bribe his way out of getting taken to who knows where.

 

I plan on visiting the 1st world, not 3rd world. Cruises to Canada and Alaska look pretty cool.

[jcanino]

Joe, while I agree with some of your statements, statistically speaking, I think that most people have a MUCH better chance of getting robbed, hurt, offered drugs or just plain harrassed in Jamaica then they do in Miami. Tourists are TARGETED in Jamaica, especially cruise ship pax as they know they have to make it back to the ship on time, and it will be less likely to be reported.

 

And you don't think tourists are targeted in Miami?!?! Several years back, gangs were targeting tourists as they drove away from the airport and got lost. Two German tourist were killed! Foreign tourist won't come back for a trial and most American's wouldn't either. I feel more afraid for my life when I walk the streets of New York City then when I am in Jamaica!

[mafig]

Thank you for your post, bluebonnet.

[Snoozeman]

This letter was written by one of my fellow shore excursion friends that was robbed along with me. We are only trying to get the message out and plus it contains some info on Carnival. To this point no one has updated us on the progress of the investigation and I have been told to be patient by the Carnival Guest Serivces rep......hard to be patient when we are so far from the crime location now!!

 

 

 

Here is a letter that I worked on for anyone I can get it to. Also, we found some information on Carnival. They have about 11.2 million people that Cruise a year. In 2003 their civil suits peaked at approximately 500. They have like 9 attorneys on staff. It appears as though they think their invincible. They don't like publicity and that is why they plead everything out before trial. They also switched over to federal courts in an attempt to discourage attorneys from filing.

 

 

 

To:

HeraldEd@MiamiHerald.com

 

To whom it may concern,

 

My name is………….. I need help to get information out.

 

On 06-10-2007 my family (including my 12yoa son and 10 yoa daughter) and I set sail on Carnival Conquest out of Galveston, Texas. This was our first cruise and we were looking forward to spending some great quality time as a family. The first stop was Jamaica, where my children and wife lost their safety and innocents.

 

We elected to take the Carnival excursion that was called the Lethe Village tour that would take us into the culture of the Jamaican natives. We had no idea how this decision would change our lives forever.

 

I am a 17 year police veteran and I was an ARMY service man prior to my law enforcement career. Safety and protection is my number one goal with anyone, and especially my wife and children. With this in mind, I attended the excursion meeting that was held on the ship by the cruise director, Mr. Price.

 

During the excursion meeting, the director's exact words were " In order to see the true Jamaica, you have to take a Carnival Shore Excursion" He also stated " The Carnival Shore Excursions are guaranteed Safe". He told us that around the port city, you may have some undesirables try to sell you marijuana or bug you about taking a cab. He explained to us that the red tag cabs were the only registered cabs, but continued to push us to take a Carnival Excursion for the guaranteed safety.

 

After the excursion meeting, I was secure in my decision to take the Carnival excursion. I now know that it is guaranteed safe.

 

We pulled into the Jamaican Port of Montego Bay on the 13th of June 2007.

 

My family loaded up on the excursion bus with 13 others making a total of 17. We were all ready to see the banana plantation called the Lethe Village Tour.

 

We drove approximately 30-40 minutes into the country of Lethe, Hanover, for our Carnival Excursion. On the way, we saw signs of extreme poverty and I had a gut feeling that we were not safe at all.

 

We arrived at the plantation and met some very nice people who showed a few things about bananas and coconuts.

 

They loaded us onto a green and yellow trolley that was connected to what appeared to be an old John Deer tractor. The excursion tour guide then turned us over to an elderly Jamaican plantation worker, who stated that his name was Dalton. He was a very nice elderly man.

 

Dalton then pulled us on the trolley further into the plantation that was surrounded by lush, thick jungle vegetation. My guard was down as my family and I looked at all of the beautiful flowers and tropical plants.

 

Dalton arrived at an area, where he got off the tractor and gave us a very educational lesson about the banana tree and how it is used in Jamaica. It was very interesting and entertaining.

 

After the banana tree lesson, Dalton loaded back up and began pulling us through the plantation towards a botanical garden , where they were going to show us some beautiful flowers and listen to a kindergarten class sing to us. My two children were so excited and we were all having a great time.

 

As we traveled through the plantation, we came up to a side road to our right that was also surrounded with vegetation. It was here that our world came crashing down.

 

From the direction of the side road, two Jamaican men ambushed our trolley, approaching with guns and a knife. They immediately took control of our lives, pointing a pistol at the driver and ordering him to stop. He stopped, exited the tractor and trembled like no other. He just plead the two men not to hurt anyone.

 

The two gunmen began cursing us all, calling us " ******g Foreigners..Give us your ******g money, man. Don't **** with us, man, we're ******g crazy" One took the left side and the other took the right. I am normally pretty good at telling what kind of narcotic someone is on, but these guys were on something I was not familiar with. They were straight up crazy and aggressive.

 

My two children were sitting behind me and my wife, next to my step-mother and my 67 yoa father, who has had two major heart attacks. The last one being in July of 2006.

 

I turned to see one of the gunmen placing an 8" revolver in the face of my 10 year old daughter, who was more hysterical than anyone I had ever seen. My daughter was pleading with the gunman to not kill her. She made this plea over and over again with tears rushing from her wide open blue eyes. I have never been so helpless in my life. It made me physically sick to my stomach and I wanted to hold her so bad. The gunman just kept the gun in her face as he stole her disposable camera and my sons disposable camera that he was using to take pictures for his favorite teacher. The gunman was ripping my children's since of safety and their innocents straight out of their little hearts. He has no idea how he just impacted their lives.

 

The gunmen continued to degrade us with curse words and stealing money, credit cards, ID's, jewelry, cameras, and any thing they could.

 

The gunmen disappeared back into the jungle, leaving my family and the other victims, who were all shaken and violated.

 

The shaken driver pulled us back to the starting point, where we exited the trolley and told other tourist of our nightmare. They all loaded back up on their buses and fled back to the Carnival Conquest, leaving us at the plantation.

 

After approximately 20 minutes the Jamaican police arrive. There were 4 to a car. As they exited their cars, officers had pistols in hand and then slid them into their front pockets. There were no holsters. I was worried that this crime would go unsolved.

 

The owner of the plantation, however, was running for the Ministry of Tourism. I believed this got the police really hopping. They stated that they were contacting the other local villages and giving them our descriptions of the gunmen. I found out later that the two gunmen tried to exit the jungle around 10:00PM about two miles away. The police were there and they had a shoot out, killing one of the gunmen. The second gunman got away.

 

After approximately 3 hours we were transported back to the Carnival Conquest, where some of the crew shuffled us back onto the ship and into a de-briefing room. They apologized and stated they had no idea that something like this could happen to us.

 

After the de-briefing, we were released back to the cruise. We then began hearing from Carnival employees that they know how dangerous Jamaica is and that they do not leave the ship. Every employee I spoke with stated that they do not leave because they fear for their safety, yet Carnival allowed us to leave and guaranteed our safety.

 

Carnival brought a Crisis Intervention Therapist on board, who met with us. She stayed on the ship all the way back to Galveston. At the end of the cruise, she recommended that our family seek further counseling in order to deal with this traumatic event. My wife and I agreed.

 

I had a letter on my cabin bed from the CEO of Carnival, stating that they apologize for the incident and stated that Guest Relation Supervisor, Dorothy Georges, would be standing by for our phone calls on Monday morning (06-18-2007).

 

I called Monday to find out how the additional counseling would be handled. Ms. Georges was not available. I left a message.

 

Georges called back and I explained my concerns and asked how we could get the counseling paid for by Carnival and her first words were " Well how many sessions and how much will they cost". I became upset and stated I did not know. Later, Georges stated she could not tell me if Carnival would pay for the counseling. She stated that she would not have and answer for a few days. I was even more upset, thinking that if it was their 10 year old baby girl that had a gun shoved in her face and had to plea for her life, they would have immediately said yes to counseling. At this point Carnival, became strictly business. There was no compassion.

 

I know that Carnival is in the business to make money. I know that Jamaica pays for Carnival to port at their country. I know that the excursions put more money in Carnival's pocket. Carnival knows how unsafe Jamaica is, but they continue to take thousands of tourist there a week and guarantee their safety. It is time that they stop.

 

I want everyone who is thinking about traveling to Jamaica, to stop. It is not worth the risk. If a 17 year police veteran can be held up in the countryside of Jamaica, anyone can. Look on the Internet about robberies and deaths in Jamaica. You will be surprised. They prey on the tourist. They know that they all carry money, they don' know anyone and they do not have weapons. The tour guide said they make about 50 - 100 dollars a week. The two gunmen that robbed us got away with approximately 2- 3 thousand. That word will get around. There will be more excursion robberies. The poverty is too low, the risk is worth the pay.

 

Thanks again for post bb. I saw this gentlemen on the Houston news. I feel very sorry for his family, especially his daughter.

 

I don't agree with the statement near the end that Jamaica pays CCL to dock though. CCL pays Jamaica. Also not sure that this will encourage other thieves as he states, I think the fact that they killed the thief may discourage others.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about CCL paying for the additional counseling. If I'm mugged in the streets of NYC I don't expect NYC to pay for my counseling. Something to consider though.

 

BTW-If you check my recent reviews you'll find I didn't get off the ship when in Jamaica with DW and only went to Sunset Beach when traveling with a large group. So the situation in Jamaica is something I recognized long ago. I understand why many more are coming to that conclusion after the news of this event. There are many other ports to visit other than MoBay and a day on the ship is enjoyable.

[jcanino]

I honestly have no desire to ever go back to any of the warm weather ports. I have heard too many stories to even attempt to believe that any of these places are 100% safe. The US, British, etc. controlled places seem 100% better than the others. I have no desire to ever travel to Mexico. My sisters friend was shaken down by the cops and had to bribe his way out of getting taken to who knows where.

 

I plan on visiting the 1st world, not 3rd world. Cruises to Canada and Alaska look pretty cool.

 

It is ashamed that you will be denying yourself of ever seeing some beautiful places. You have a fear of the unknown because someone else tells you to be afraid. Your fears have beaten you down and they have won. I guess that you have never heard any good stories come out of the Caribbean. It is ashamed that you will never visit a school in Jamaica and see how well dressed the students are all in uniform and how respectful they are. You cannot tell me that there are no corrupt cops in the US. When I was younger and my family would drive to Florida every year, there were stories of local cops pulling over cars for going 1 mile over the speed limit and then forcing the drive to pay THEM a large fine or go to jail. Did that stop my dad or any of the millions of tourist that visited Florida? If it did, it would still all be swampland.

[Ravekid]

Obviously not comparing Target to Jamaica just stating that crime can happen anywhere...

 

I can't stand the "crime can happen anywhere" logic. Using that logic, you obviously would be all up for a trip to Iraq, Iran, and Mogadishu.

 

The simple fact is that some places are a hell of a lot worse than others. It is all a numbers game. In certain areas, you are much more likely to be a victim of crime. The fact is, US killings are likely not as bad as folks think. The vast majority of killings are domestic or under ground economy related (drugs, guns). The rest are the true innocent folks. So while crime can happen anywhere, I don't see many folks demanding to port at Mogadishu.

 

What I would ask is that cruise companies give a no BS assessment of the true crime rate in the places they visit. This would be killings per 100,000 residents, robberies, etc.. It would also give the total number of these crimes. Also give facts relating to police and the current state of the criminal justice system.

 

My Carnival info packet was quick to point out that riding motor scooter and ATVs was dangerous and they said to avoid it for fear of injury. Well, they should offer the same warnings. I in no way hold Carnival responsible for what happened. Personally, I don't think they owe the victims a thing. Each one of those people had a choice. It took me all of six seconds and a Google search to see what a cesspool Jamaica is. I don't care how beautiful a place is, I promise you there is an equally or more beautiful place in an area where there is less crime.

 

Since there is crime everywhere, folks should always be on alert. That being said, some places (even in the US) should be avoided. I personally think Jamaica is one of them.

[In the Pink]

Well, all I know is, although the sunrise I saw in MoBay was one of the more steller views I've seen on a cruise, I will not be going back because of the many, many reports of danger I've heard. There are plenty of other beautiful places to see without putting my life in extreme danger. I'm booked on the SECOND Voyager cruise out of Galveston because the first one is going to Jamaica. I will no longer book a cruise going there and if enough of the rest of you who are saying you're going to "stay on the ship" will actually not book those cruises at all, the cruise lines will get the point and quit going there. Joe, my brother, and the others who are willing to risk their lives will still have the option to fly in.

[hmstins]

Snoozeman, you have my complete sympathies. I cannot imagine how frightened you all must have been. I hope that with time you can help your children overcome their fear. What a nightmare.

 

To the rest of you who think there is nothing wrong with Jamaica, that it wasn't that bad, that it can happen anywhere -- grow up. Of course it can happen anywhere, but we don't pick a vacation spot so we can get robbed! We pick vacation spots where we can relax, have a good time, bond with family and friends, etc.

 

Jamaica has been a very dangerous place to go for a long time and no one believes it until something like this happens. Yes, I went ashore once there in Montego Bay and we went right back to the ship. IT IS NOT SAFE TO WALK DOWN THE STREET THERE! People accost you left and right, try to drag you into their store. Cab drivers try to convince you that your driver left and told them to bring you back to the ship. Drugs are sold on every street corner and in between. The country is incredibly poor and the people mostly ignorant and uneducated. The drug problem is rampant. Our dinner waiter was from Jamaica and said he was always afraid for his life when he went home to visit his family because everyone knew he had a job and money and felt like he was rich.

 

I have never gone back to Jamaica again and will never go on a cruise ship that stops there. Simple as that. We all know certain neighborhoods that you would be stupid to go to, and this is one of them. Wake up and smell the coffee, folks!!!

[Ravekid]

This letter was written by one of my fellow shore excursion friends that was robbed along with me.

 

In 2003 their civil suits peaked at approximately 500. They have like 9 attorneys on staff. It appears as though they think their invincible.

 

Can you blame Carnival? Doesn't anyone believe in personal responsibility anymore? It took me all of less than 10 seconds to see that Jamaica is a third world $#!t hole.

 

 

I am a 17 year police veteran and I was an ARMY service man prior to my law enforcement career. Safety and protection is my number one goal with anyone, and especially my wife and children. With this in mind, I attended the excursion meeting that was held on the ship by the cruise director, Mr. Price.

 

During the excursion meeting, the director's exact words were " In order to see the true Jamaica, you have to take a Carnival Shore Excursion" He also stated " The Carnival Shore Excursions are guaranteed Safe". He told us that around the port city, you may have some undesirables try to sell you marijuana or bug you about taking a cab. He explained to us that the red tag cabs were the only registered cabs, but continued to push us to take a Carnival Excursion for the guaranteed safety.

 

After the excursion meeting, I was secure in my decision to take the Carnival excursion. I now know that it is guaranteed safe.

 

If this guy is a cop, he sure did not learn much. I work in law enforcement. I trust in myself and my family, well, some of them :D .

 

This former cop screwed up. I don't see how any cop with 17 years of police work could have been so blind. At a min., I would have asked "Does Carnival offer armed police escorts?" As soon as I heard "No.", my decision to visit Jamaica would have been made. A simple internet search would have told this cop that Jamaica had over 1,000 killings in the not to distant past. That alone should have been an answer.

 

 

After the de-briefing, we were released back to the cruise. We then began hearing from Carnival employees that they know how dangerous Jamaica is and that they do not leave the ship. Every employee I spoke with stated that they do not leave because they fear for their safety, yet Carnival allowed us to leave and guaranteed our safety.

 

Ugh, this information was freely available on-line prior to your cruise. How could he have not checked into crimes in places he would visit? Being a cop, that is one of the first things I did.

 

At the end of the cruise, she recommended that our family seek further counseling in order to deal with this traumatic event. My wife and I agreed.

 

A cop needs "counseling?" I can see if for a death or police action shooting, but for an armed robbery where your OK? I know a few cops who became victims of crimes, none of them needed counseling.

 

Georges called back and I explained my concerns and asked how we could get the counseling paid for by Carnival and her first words were " Well how many sessions and how much will they cost". I became upset and stated I did not know. Later, Georges stated she could not tell me if Carnival would pay for the counseling. She stated that she would not have and answer for a few days. I was even more upset, thinking that if it was their 10 year old baby girl that had a gun shoved in her face and had to plea for her life, they would have immediately said yes to counseling. At this point Carnival, became strictly business. There was no compassion.

 

I guess this cop thinks his police department or local government should pay crime victims? I mean, if he thinks Carnival is responsible for the actions of two criminals in Jamaica, surely he would agree that him, his police/sheriff department, and the local government is responsible for all crime in their jurisdiction.

 

 

Look on the Internet about robberies and deaths in Jamaica. You will be surprised. They prey on the tourist.

 

Ugh, no, no surprises here. Funny how the cop did his research _after_ the fact. Hope he is not a detective!!

[Ravekid]

It is ashamed that you will be denying yourself of ever seeing some beautiful places. You have a fear of the unknown because someone else tells you to be afraid. Your fears have beaten you down and they have won. I guess that you have never heard any good stories come out of the Caribbean. It is ashamed that you will never visit a school in Jamaica and see how well dressed the students are all in uniform and how respectful they are. You cannot tell me that there are no corrupt cops in the US. When I was younger and my family would drive to Florida every year, there were stories of local cops pulling over cars for going 1 mile over the speed limit and then forcing the drive to pay THEM a large fine or go to jail. Did that stop my dad or any of the millions of tourist that visited Florida? If it did, it would still all be swampland.

 

If I want to see these "beautiful" places, a simple internet search will show me them. For me, beautiful is beautiful. It doesn't matter if it is Jamaica or Glacier National Park. Using your logic, I should quickly take a loan out to go and see as many specifically "beautiful" sites all over the world.

 

I don't need someone to tell me to be afraid. True life stories and working the street for 10 years have given me plenty. Folks like you make me laugh. Do you live in a Section 8 ghetto? I mean, just because they are crime ridden shouldn't make you feel scared...right? Folks avoid living in certain areas because of crime. I see no reason not extending that to visiting certain areas. I can see kids dressed in uniforms here in Indiana...big deal. I never heard of those stories of Florida cops, but I never said there were never any bad cops here...I just said that I trust in our justice system a hell of a lot more than some turd world island.

[adaleyldaley]

Just of the Conquest today Sunday June 17th and we had Seventeen people robbed on a Jamaica excursion booked thru the Conquest! I have pesonally talked to four of the people who was robbed at GUNPOINT and MACHETTES in Jamaica on Wednesday 6-13-07!!!! Some women were roughed up and one had a camera cut off her neck with a machette when she did not hand it over to the two robbers! Four children under the age of 12 were hysterical beyond expantion. Neil our super shopper stands up on Tuesday and tells everyone how safe Jamaica is when you book thru Carnival and how great and safe the shopping is in the main plaza to shop. THANKS to you great folks here a CC I knew better and refused to take my family to the central market to shop and more horrot stories with the ULTRA aggressive and just mean people to deal with. No one on our cruise would EVER go back to Jamaica and all have promised to write Carnival and every cruise line to get rid of this port of call. If you are going to Jamaica soon, remember NO ONE can or will help you once you pass thru the Terminal Gates and if you do not want to expose your children and family to this type of trauma I would suggest that you do not leave the ship. Future cruisers should call their PVP/Carnival ASAP and ask if they will pass this port of call. If they say no ask them if they will be 100% responsible for your safety and 100% liable as well. These are FACTS, I was there and talked to the victims and how traumatized they were days later. DO NOT subject you family/kids to this type of environment. I will be posting a complete review at a later time, we had a GREAT cruise other than Jamaica!!!!

What town do you live in,,, i want to move there

[nimbex1970]

If people took a post cruise tour offered by Carnival of downtown Miami and South Beach or The EDverglades and got robbed by a local gang, would you call for Carnival to pull out of Miami? I truly feel for those people and would not want it to happen to me, but the reality is that it can happen anywhere. Even while you are on the ship you are not safe from outside threats. Look back at the Achille Lauro incident. One is not even safe in their own home. Home invasions are in the news all the time. There are approximately 2.8 million people in Jamaica. I guarantee you, they are not all thieves.

 

I thought that travel agents were not to advertise here... yours has the name of your agency as well as your certifications. I can't take advice about my safety from someone who stands to make $$ from my business.

 

[GoinCruisin]

Snoozeman, you have my complete sympathies. I cannot imagine how frightened you all must have been. I hope that with time you can help your children overcome their fear. What a nightmare.

 

To the rest of you who think there is nothing wrong with Jamaica, that it wasn't that bad, that it can happen anywhere -- grow up. Of course it can happen anywhere, but we don't pick a vacation spot so we can get robbed! We pick vacation spots where we can relax, have a good time, bond with family and friends, etc.

 

Jamaica has been a very dangerous place to go for a long time and no one believes it until something like this happens. Yes, I went ashore once there in Montego Bay and we went right back to the ship. IT IS NOT SAFE TO WALK DOWN THE STREET THERE! People accost you left and right, try to drag you into their store. Cab drivers try to convince you that your driver left and told them to bring you back to the ship. Drugs are sold on every street corner and in between. The country is incredibly poor and the people mostly ignorant and uneducated. The drug problem is rampant. Our dinner waiter was from Jamaica and said he was always afraid for his life when he went home to visit his family because everyone knew he had a job and money and felt like he was rich.

 

I have never gone back to Jamaica again and will never go on a cruise ship that stops there. Simple as that. We all know certain neighborhoods that you would be stupid to go to, and this is one of them. Wake up and smell the coffee, folks!!!

 

 

First, I don't think it was Snoozeman this happened to.

 

Second, you are telling those of us that have been to Jamaica countless times and would not hesitate to go back, to GROW UP??? Are you serious? Sorry YOU feel unsafe there... but there are many of us that DON'T! You described activities that happen in MANY ports I have been to. Just because YOU don't feel safe there doesn't give you the right to tell others to "grow up" :rolleyes: If you don't think you can get robbed in Nassau, Costa Rica, Cozumel, Costa Maya, etc... you are naive. It is horrible what happened to these people... but don't be fooled into thinking this hasn't happened elsewhere... remember the robbery that happened in Limon and the passenger killed the attacked a few months ago? All ports carry some degree of risk... to tell people to GROW UP because they enjoy a port and didn't experience the "danger" is CHILDISH.

[GoinCruisin]

I thought that travel agents were not to advertise here... yours has the name of your agency as well as your certifications. I can't take advice about my safety from someone who stands to make $$ from my business.

 

 

Joe is well within the guidelines... he is allowed to have his name and name of his agency. The guidelines state this very clearly... people should know when the post is by a TA... he isn't recommending his agency, or advertising it with contact info...

[GoinCruisin]

Can you blame Carnival? Doesn't anyone believe in personal responsibility anymore? It took me all of less than 10 seconds to see that Jamaica is a third world $#!t hole.

 

 

 

 

If this guy is a cop, he sure did not learn much. I work in law enforcement. I trust in myself and my family, well, some of them :D .

 

This former cop screwed up. I don't see how any cop with 17 years of police work could have been so blind. At a min., I would have asked "Does Carnival offer armed police escorts?" As soon as I heard "No.", my decision to visit Jamaica would have been made. A simple internet search would have told this cop that Jamaica had over 1,000 killings in the not to distant past. That alone should have been an answer.

 

 

 

 

Ugh, this information was freely available on-line prior to your cruise. How could he have not checked into crimes in places he would visit? Being a cop, that is one of the first things I did.

 

 

 

A cop needs "counseling?" I can see if for a death or police action shooting, but for an armed robbery where your OK? I know a few cops who became victims of crimes, none of them needed counseling.

 

 

 

I guess this cop thinks his police department or local government should pay crime victims? I mean, if he thinks Carnival is responsible for the actions of two criminals in Jamaica, surely he would agree that him, his police/sheriff department, and the local government is responsible for all crime in their jurisdiction.

 

 

 

 

Ugh, no, no surprises here. Funny how the cop did his research _after_ the fact. Hope he is not a detective!!

 

WOW!! This person has just been through a traumatic event... do you think you could cut the claws down a little bit???? :rolleyes:

The counseling was stressed for the CHILDREN!!!! Anyone that thinks a 10 year old (or an adult for that matter) isn't going to need some counseling after being held up and robbed by people with machetes and guns, is out of their minds!!!!!

[Kieferbell]

It is ashamed that you will be denying yourself of ever seeing some beautiful places. You have a fear of the unknown because someone else tells you to be afraid. Your fears have beaten you down and they have won. I guess that you have never heard any good stories come out of the Caribbean. It is ashamed that you will never visit a school in Jamaica and see how well dressed the students are all in uniform and how respectful they are. You cannot tell me that there are no corrupt cops in the US. When I was younger and my family would drive to Florida every year, there were stories of local cops pulling over cars for going 1 mile over the speed limit and then forcing the drive to pay THEM a large fine or go to jail. Did that stop my dad or any of the millions of tourist that visited Florida? If it did, it would still all be swampland.

 

Preach Brother, I agree :)