Can you handle another tipping thread? What I saw.

[bobpatj]

Sad, sad, sad. Our dining room steward told us how much he likes the new system and how much more he's able to make. $10 a day per person comes out to less than what we've tipped in the past, so for our special stewards and servers, they got an extra "thank you" on the last night of the cruise.

[saltydog28]

Kami's pal-- From what I understand the Transport Workers Federation represents men and women from all over the world. They have a very extensive website. The room and board is not part of their wages.
Pat.

[Kami's pal]

[quote name='saltydog28']Kami's pal-- From what I understand the Transport Workers Federation represents men and women from all over the world. They have a very extensive website. The room and board is not part of their wages.
Pat.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. That would be most reassuring, if your understanding is correct.

[ekerr19]

[quote name='saltydog28']98Charlie- Someone on the boards mentioned that the crew was unionized, and that they belonged to the Transport Workers Federation. I looked that up.
...I think I am reading this correctly, but I could be wrong. According to the Miami guidelines-Appendix1-2003-your average waiter/steward makes $941 US a month.
..Granted, it's not alot. But it is considerably more than $50-$100 a month.
..As for them cleaning my room- making my bed-etc..etc..
..Isn't that what I paid for when I paid my fare?
Devils advocate,
Pat.[/QUOTE]

Of the many crew members we've gotten to know over the years, we've found the average wage in US dollars to be about $150 per month. They are allowed to keep about $50 (and their tips) and the rest is required to be sent home. We have been told this by [B]more [/B] than just one or two crew members. Most of these are waiters and waitresses. My understanding is barstaff (especially senior) do make more. This is just what we've been told over the years, I have no factual basis to back it up, other than it has been fairly consistent in each instance we were told of.

Also, even at $941 a month - given the number of hours the staff are REQUIRED to work (I think it is a minimum of 11 hours per day), sometimes with only a half day off per week, still works out to be less than $3.50 per hour - a shame, IMO. Keep in mind, the crew are not governed by U.S. Wage and Hour laws.

Removing the auto-tip is just plain [B]CHEAP[/B], there are no other words. I agree with Jacqueline and everyone else who is appalled that someone can spend so much on a vacation (especially to Europe) then complain about a $10 per day tip for the hard working staff, it's ludicrous!

Stay home if you can't pay, for crying out loud. :mad:

[saltydog28]

ekerr19- Stay home if you can't pay?......If we couldn't pay, we would be staying home.....But my husband works 12hr days so we can have nice vacations. And he NEVER takes a tip, because it would be called a BRIB. And he could lose his job and his pension. He knew that before he was hired.
..The crew members are not indentured servents, so how can you say they are ALLOWED to keep $50.
..What I read is that they could send home up to 80% of their pay. So that would leave them with $188.
You say you have no factual bases for your comments. I have given you the name of a website where I got my information. And I have to surmize from your statements that you did not look it up. If you have any other websites or information that would dispute what I have, could you please pass it on.
..Life is an ongoing learning process. And I like to have the facts, not just hearsay.
Finally..I am not complaining about $10. a day per person. I am complaining about the fact that I'm being told how much to tip-who they are giving the tip money to-I have no say in the matter-and if I remove it from my account, I have to give them an explaination why it was removed.
Pat.

[lknick]

[quote name='ekerr19']Also, even at $941 a month - given the number of hours the staff are REQUIRED to work (I think it is a minimum of 11 hours per day), sometimes with only a half day off per week, still works out to be less than $3.50 per hour - a shame, IMO. Keep in mind, the crew are not governed by U.S. Wage and Hour laws.[/QUOTE]What I am seeing the additude so well expressed by Teddy Roosevelt over a 100 years ago. [QUOTE]It is the white man's burden to help our little brown brothers.[/QUOTE] Just as so many exclaim [when it comes to dress] "but this is 2004" [like the number has a magical significance], why can't we understand that these employees are well represented, are not forced into bondage and many have worked for HAL for over 30 years...signing contract after contract.

To remove a service charge is mean-spirited without a doubt. But to believe HAL's hotel employees need the cruising public's support is not valid.

Standing ready to be flamed, I can identify that most hotel employees do make in the range of US$30,000 [or more] per 12 month contract. According to the Census of Manufacturing, the average compensation for U.S. based employees is $US35,000 [which does not provide room and board.]

BTW, employees in the UK, France, Germany....ad nauseum...are not covered by "U.S. Wage and Hour laws" either. What about the poor Alpine farmer who produced the cheese you so love or the Thai seamstress who sewed your clothing.

[ekerr19]

I expressed my opinion based upon conversations we've had over not just one or two cruises - but many.

Saltydog - I don't think anyone was talking about your husband taking a tip? I sure wasn't referring to him... I don't think I know what you are talking about... Bribes? You missed me, sorry.

Iknick- Your opinions on labor and the work force are well known and I respect them. Sorry, but even $30K a year hardly constitutes "high living" - I'd also like to know what the source of the $30K is... sure no one forces anyone to sign a contract, but you know how I feel - we've had this conversation (about labor) in other threads... :)

To the both of you - I stated "I have no factual basis - just conversations with crew" and yet I am flamed - oh well.

Iknick - one thing we do agree on is to remove the auto-tip is mean-spirited. IMO, it is also cheap and I will stand by that. To me, $10 per person, per day doesn't even begin to cover it. :)

Iknick - I liked your other Avatar better - nice picture of you in your tux! :)

[OdGregg]

[quote name='dakrewser']We did see a seperate line for service charge occasionally when we were in Sydney last spring. And we were told (by local, even) that "good service" in a restaurant was usually rewarded by a 10-15% gratuity....[/QUOTE]
Ah, well that's Sydney which has probably been more "Americanised" than any other city in Australia. I guess I can only speak from local experience down here in Tassie other than an occasional visit to Sydney or Melbourne. :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Richard

[dakrewser]

[quote name='OdGregg']Ah, well that's Sydney which has probably been more "Americanised" than any other city in Australia. I guess I can only speak from local experience down here in Tassie other than an occasional visit to Sydney or Melbourne. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]
I didn't realize you'd actually started using money in Tasmania - thought everything was still on a barter basis! :rolleyes:

[saltydog28]

ekerr19- It's a shamed you missed my point-oh well.
..You say that we flamed you. I've read these posts over and over. I can't find where you were flamed....Disagreement is not flaming. And I haven't read any name-calling. So where are the flames?
Pat.

[ekerr19]

[quote name='saltydog28']ekerr19- It's a shamed you missed my point-oh well.
..You say that we flamed you. I've read these posts over and over. I can't find where you were flamed....Disagreement is not flaming. And I haven't read any name-calling. So where are the flames?
Pat.[/QUOTE]

Pat-

My point was that I had no factual evidence, just what I've been told by various crew members - you seemed to have an issue with that. I meant no offense to you. :)

I am known to several posters on these boards for my "liberal" stance on labor views. I don't mind arguing my point - I do stand behind it.

Sorry if I mis-interpreted your post. :)

[OdGregg]

[quote name='dakrewser']I didn't realize you'd actually started using money in Tasmania - thought everything was still on a barter basis! :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Oh, we're talking about money are we? I think I've heard of it... :-P

[OdGregg]

[quote name='ekerr19']
Removing the auto-tip is just plain [b]CHEAP[/b], there are no other words. I agree with Jacqueline and everyone else who is appalled that someone can spend so much on a vacation (especially to Europe) then complain about a $10 per day tip for the hard working staff, it's ludicrous!

Stay home if you can't pay, for crying out loud. :mad:[/QUOTE]
So your saying if you haven't got buckets of money, don't bother travelling and ESPECIALLY don't go cruising?

Sounds a bit elitest to me. :p

My wife and I are on reasonable incomes and have been scrimping and saving every thing we can (or bartering for it :D ) for quite some time. We'll be the first members of either of our families to go on a cruise. I hope it's enjoyable. It's definitely a step up from last time I went to Europe (been 3 times already). Budget last time was $8000 AUD (about $5000 US at the time) and that was for 4.5 months including $2500 airfare and buying a car.

We'll probably leave the $10pppd on there, but I'd definitely prefer it to be included in the upfront cost....

"Cruise from $1500 per person*"

"*plus $500 taxes, plus $70 'tips' because we won't even wait for you to decide that our service is excellent"

I'd much prefer:

"Cruise from $2100 per person"

:D

Cheers,
Richard

[lknick]

[quote name='ekerr19']Iknick- Your opinions on labor and the work force are well known and I respect them. Sorry, but even $30K a year hardly constitutes "high living" - I'd also like to know what the source of the $30K is... sure no one forces anyone to sign a contract, but you know how I feel - we've had this conversation (about labor) in other threads... :) [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, the references I rely upon have gone with the previous boards. As you rely upon anecdotal information, I will not debate with you.

[QUOTE]Iknick - I liked your other Avatar better - nice picture of you in your tux! :)[/QUOTE]There will be a new Avatar every now and then. I am proud of the units I have served with, and that is one of the patches.

[ekerr19]

[quote name='OdGregg']So your saying if you haven't got buckets of money, don't bother travelling and ESPECIALLY don't go cruising?

Sounds a bit elitest to me. :p

My wife and I are on reasonable incomes and have been scrimping and saving every thing we can (or bartering for it :D ) for quite some time. We'll be the first members of either of our families to go on a cruise. I hope it's enjoyable. It's definitely a step up from last time I went to Europe (been 3 times already). Budget last time was $8000 AUD (about $5000 US at the time) and that was for 4.5 months including $2500 airfare and buying a car.

We'll probably leave the $10pppd on there, but I'd definitely prefer it to be included in the upfront cost....

"Cruise from $1500 per person*"

"*plus $500 taxes, plus $70 'tips' because we won't even wait for you to decide that our service is excellent"

I'd much prefer:

"Cruise from $2100 per person"

:D

Cheers,
Richard[/QUOTE]

Richard-

Hardly elitist. I agree, it may be better up front but that is not the way it is. Jacqueline originally posted that people were removing it for no particular reason. To me, that is a shame and that is what I have a problem with - of course, everyone is entitled to do as they choose, but in my opinion to remove it for no reason is cheap.

If you have a problem or issue with the service - sure, by all means - but constructive criticism is much different than "no reason at all".

Again, sorry if I offended anyone. :)

[ekerr19]

[quote name='lknick']Unfortunately, the references I rely upon have gone with the previous boards. As you rely upon anecdotal information, I will not debate with you.

There will be a new Avatar every now and then. I am proud of the units I have served with, and that is one of the patches.[/QUOTE]

No debate here, I was merely curious. This is a subject of interest to me, as you may know.

Avatar: I didn't realize that. I look forward to seeing them :)

[KAKcruiser]

I worked 10 hour days and longer for years. I also went to college at night for 8 years. I did this so I could have a nice retirement. Nobody gave me anything extra for no reason just because they felt sorry for me. So, I still don't understand why we are expected to supplement the crews salary.

[ekerr19]

[quote name='KAKcruiser']I worked 10 hour days and longer for years. I also went to college at night for 8 years. I did this so I could have a nice retirement. Nobody gave me anything extra for no reason just because they felt sorry for me. So, I still don't understand why we are expected to supplement the crews salary.[/QUOTE]

You are not expected to. You can remove the auto-tip if you wish. It is a personal choice. Having been on a few HAL cruises, I can honestly say that I've never received sub-standard service, it has always been far above what we receive in many restaurants.

Just curious, but do you tip at a restaurant when you go out to eat? I tip my servers because they've provided me a service that I appreciate. My tip is reflective of that service. It is certainly not because I feel sorry for them.

Having worked 10+ hours for years while going to college (an accomplishment anyone should be proud of :) ) you probably understand how hard the crew works. :)

[dakrewser]

[quote name='OdGregg']I'd much prefer:

"Cruise from $2100 per person"[/QUOTE]
I'll go along with that, you [i]devil[/i] you :)

[OdGregg]

[quote name='dakrewser']I'll go along with that, you [i]devil[/i] you :)[/QUOTE]
Hehe.... very subtle....

Unfortunately there is some form of cancerous like disease spreading through the devil population down here. There is a lot of research going on to try and find a cure. I believe Warner Brothers may have made a sizable donation to the research earlier this year.

[ekerr19]

[quote name='lknick']

BTW, employees in the UK, France, Germany....ad nauseum...are not covered by "U.S. Wage and Hour laws" either. What about the poor Alpine farmer who produced the cheese you so love or the Thai seamstress who sewed your clothing.[/QUOTE]
I forgot to add - I am very selective about the goods and services I purchase for precisely this reason.

I mean no offense, Iknick I enjoy reading your posts... they are most enlightening and contain much interesting information.

You may think I am a "bleeding heart" and I probably am - and I won't change any sooner than you will :)

I will agree to disagree with you - any day of the week :D

[imsulin]

Cannot and will not ever understand tip-stiffers. It's just crass, crude, and classless behavior, IMO. I am proud to pre-pay tips, and then tip in cash during the course of my cruise as I deem. I enjoy tipping those who most likely never receive tips, as well as those who serve me. Melody - GREAT idea to personalize tips in the form of a note!

[diann744]

I'll be cruising for the first time in November and the tipping situation has me decidedly nervous. I've never held a job that relied on tips. Primarily because I see what these people go through and I know I could never do as good a job as so many of them do. One on one service is an amazingly hard, too often thankless job. For this reason, I tend to be a very good tipper.

The $10 per day doesn't bother me. What bothers me is knowing I will not be able to get up from a table without leaving behind my customary 20% gratuity for good service. Knowing the policy (and knowing that the waiter knows the policy) will not make it any easier for me to withhold my "thank yous" til the end of the trip.

So, I forsee paying $10 per day, tipping at the time of service and tipping an additional amount to those special servers at the end of the cruise. Anyone know where I can get a lucrative part-time job between now and November?

[lknick]

The whole system is broken.

Soon, when I buy a bottle of aspirin, instead of US$.99, the price tag will say: bottle US$.05, raw materials US$.05, labor costs US$.20, transportation US$.10 and the rest profit and mark-up.

Now, maybe I should take off the labor cost...and I'm not sure I need the bottle.

[sail7seas]

[b]Totally off subject but previously referred to above.[/b]



[b]lknick......For what unit is the badge avatar?[/b]