Can you handle another tipping thread? What I saw.

[Jacqueline]

I almost feel a need to apologize for starting this one but was suprised at what I saw on our recent trip on the Westerdam.

Just to recap, in our precruise documents was the full explanation of the *new* tipping policy for HAL outlining how autotipping works, etc. Having traveled Princess and Celebrity mostly in the past, we have always gone this route as we are the sorts of people that tend to use credit cards for everything- plus the tips would be coming out close to $1000 for our trip and we did not want to bring any more cash than we needed to to Europe.

Since we had a DVD player in our room I was at the Front office more than usual. I must say, these people have the patience of a saint. I would last about 5 minutes at that job... Oh back to the topic. From day one people wanted to remove their tips. Not because they wanted to be more personal, give cash, write notes, but just cause they didnt want to pay. This was a theme I saw several times each time I was at the desk looking thru the DVD catalog. Each time people were told that this could be done the last day of the cruise.

BTW- no one was complaining about the quality of the service. It was more along the lines of $10 a day why thats $130 for the cruise !! times 2! I thought it was included... Things have gone down hill since Carnival took over... The tips USED to be included,,,Etc...Its amazing all these people could afford to fly to Europe and take a 13 day cruise. I guess they couldnt afford excursions or drinks in the lounge either.

The worst was the last day when Pietro had his desk set up near the front office (which was a big mistake- people who were just complaining about items on their preliminary statement decided, I believe, to take off the tips because they overheard others doing it. And they were already cranky over something else.) Of course he would want to know WHY in the event that his staff had fallen short and not provided good service etc. I did not hear that. The fellow in line ahead of me for the front desk stole over to the tip adjustment line and removed the tip for his 13 year old son. I was hoping he would try and regain his spot in front of me so that I could ask whether his son was served dinner at the table or had his bed made everyday but he slunk off in shame, I think afterwards. Or maybe it was the look I shot him that frightened him away !

I didnt hear anyone say that they were removing the autotip so that they would have the pleasure of tipping personally (although I am sure that this was sometimes the case. At least I HOPE so.)

[dakrewser]

There are, unfortunately, very few places you can go where the rude and crude are excluded (and the rule is enforced :rolleyes: ). Its simply a sad commentary on our times. These are also probably the same people who turn their children loose to terrorize the ship....

[sail7seas]

Thank you for posting this. I was afraid this would happen.

 

 

There were so many people who did not tip when "it was at our discretion".....what did HAL think would make them more generous now?

 

A dead beat tip stiffer will always be a dead beat tip stiffer.

 

The saddest part of it all is that the crew remembers. They know when they see some of these folks that they have served them before and they remember they stiffed them. BUT, it makes no difference. When these crude ignoramouses return for another cruise, they still get the beautiful smile and gracious service. They don't even have the grace to be embarrassed to see stewards again who they know they stiffed a year ago.

 

 

Their cruises could not have been THAT BAD that they did not think a tip was appropriate or they would have never returned to HAL for another 'horrible experience'.

[elmorejj]

I am sitting here shaking my head in amazement! how horrid for the crew. I guess it`s only a matter of time before HAL :cool: goes the way NCL has gone and make it mandantory...such a shame.....jean

[FlorenceItaly]

I too am amazed that after paying x amount of dollars for the cruise, airfare, drinks, excurisions, etc....people take off the VERY SMALL AMOUNT that the tip amounts to in relation to the "big picture"....I am not articulating well, but you get the picture........TACKY!

 

Marie

[98Charlie]

Just a thought on why HAL would change their policy.

did HAL think would make them more generous now

Maybe not more generous but at least the cheapskates will have to face someone and say (kind of like at an AA meeting): "Hi, my name is (fill in the blank) and I'm a cheapskate. Please take the tips off of my room because my bar bill is too high. And besides, the room steward put the toilet paper on the dispenser wrong."

 

In the long run some who previously didn't tip would not want to face a real person to have the tips removed. I think that it might benefit the crew, however slightly.

 

Its simply a sad commentary on our times.

Amen, brother.

[ASM]

I don't know what to say . I'm shocked.

[jazzsea]

It makes me sick to my stomach. You showed a great deal of restraint. I'm not sure I could have.

 

My hope is that HAL makes the tipping mandatory.

[TedC]

On our May Westerdam cruise, Cruise Director Gary Walker, a Brit who now lives in Fla., announced from the stage that most of those who eliminated the auto-tip were Europeans.

 

There were pax holding passports from 38 nations on our cruise. More than half of the pax were non-U.S. passport holders.

 

Perhaps, in some cases, it's a cultural thing?

[RevNeal]

My hope is that HAL makes the tipping mandatory.

 

I hope so too. To do that, the best option is to add it into the cruise fare. If they were to do this they could then claim that the tips are included and it would be true. :) That would be a strong marketing ploy ... I just don't understand why HAL doesn't do it.

[98Charlie]

Ted - You have a great point regarding the European culture. It's considered OK to round your restaurant/bar bill up to the next unit. But, the idea of adding a percentage is unEuropean. The price posted is the price you pay.

 

Even sales taxes (generally Value Added Tax) are included in the price of store items.

 

My hope is that HAL makes the tipping mandatory.

It probably won't be long before most or all of the cruise lines have a mandatory service charge a la NCL.

 

The cruise lines have brought some of this problem upon themselves by calling it a tip or gratuity in the first place. The "tipped" staff makes <$100 per month. I don't know of anyone (cheapskates included) who could say with a straight face that that is an appropriate wage for the work the crew does. Therefore: It's not a tip. It's not a gratuity. It's their paycheck.

 

Sincerely,

 

Charlie (stepping down from the soap box ;) )

[HeatherInFlorida]

I must live somewhere in La La Land. It truly never occured to me that people would just walk off the ship without tipping their waiters and cabin stewards ... at the very least! And now to go to this much trouble in order to stiff those who have served them is unconsionable.

 

Maybe I was born yesterday after all:o

[98Charlie]

the best option is to add it into the cruise fare.

If added into the cruise price, it would be subject to taxes and commissions. Probably best for everyone if it comes as a service charge.

[jima53]

I've only cruised one time on carnival with a HAL cruise coming in october and a carnival cruise on 1/15/05. After thinking about the tipping situation I really liked the automatic tip added to the cruise bill based on per person per day. What I didn't like was the 15% added to everything I drank that came from a coffee counter. I guess I didn't like having someone hand me a cup of coffee and then have the added tip for basically no added service. I mean, it wasn't a self service counter, which tells me someone is suppose to pour it in the cup for me....It brings back the tip jar you see next to a cash register in stores as if they deserve a tip for ringing up your order and taking your money for payment. Tips for those that deserve it. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for people like cocktail waitresses andwaiters, and also bartenders that do provide a service receiving the tip on the bill, I would never let someone bring something to me and not tip them...same with the great room service people...but not for basic service other than money added to the daily cruise per person.

 

Jim

[DFD1]

I fail to understand why the cruise industry, including HAL, does not put this problem to bed once and for all. They can simply add the $l0 per day amount to the published cruise fares, create an advertising and information campaign telling the cruising public what they have done and why: set up a fair compensation plan for employees (whatever that might be, depending on the department and the employee union requirements), showing how that $l0 per day is distributed, get that information to their customers thru mailings, flyers in the documents, and postings on their website and get this pesky problem behind them.

If they did this, I believe that we would all feel better about it in the long run and in a few months the tipping issue would probably be a non-issue.

[stillfrantic]

A lot of those people may very well have booked their cruises months ago, when travel agents were still telling clients, "You don't need to tip on HAL. It will save you money over another line." Maybe they were just shocked. It is in the booklet, but for the next six months, it really is still "new" to many.

 

Of course, yes, I am horrified there was actually a line to do this, and people would do it and still show their faces. I am definately not making excuses or agreeing, just offereing that maybe it will get better in time.

[RevNeal]

My hope is that HAL makes the tipping mandatory.

 

Not necessarily. As with Taxes, Port Fees, and the NDA, it could be added onto the total which is 75 days before sailing. That would make the fare "inclusive" in the sense that one would have paid their gratuities up front, before ever boarding.

[olderpilot]

The "European" theory really isn't valid either. Many, if not most, European restaurants add a service charge to the bill so why would adding the $10/day be any different.

 

S7s had a great point that had escaped me. Some of these folks have had multiple cruises on HAL and never tipped. The crew has to know that, and still they do such a good job. Only once have I seen a crewmember get upset. Several years ago on the last morning of 10 day Caribbean cruise one of the waiters who had been stiffed was in a very foul mood serving the last breakfast. He came across some passengers complaining about their breakfast and he just lost it. The maitre d' had to escort him out of the dining room. However, most of us understood what had happened.

 

Some things and some people I just don't understand

[Peggy Sue]

I am amazed that people can be served by these men and women for the length of their cruise and not be moved to give them a tip. They work so hard, and they play a huge part in what makes the over all cruise experience so enjoyable. How many times have we heard people want to take their cabin steward home? Their gracious service, smiles and dedication to their task are amazing.

 

So people don't tip paper boys or the pizza delivery guy.. I guess it's all what we are comfortable with at the end of the day.

 

We believe HAL should make the service charge mandatory. We're glad some of the hard workers we don't interact with day to day will also share the tips. We also believe that a cash tip to those who served us so well every day is something we'll gladly do at the end of the cruise..with a nice thank you note.

 

People are amazing. I remember a co-worker who went out to a group lunch..about 15 of us. We all chipped in 2 dollars towards a group tip. It came to about 30%..but why haggle over quarters, plus the waitress really did a fantastic job getting our food out quickly, drinks etc. This man waited for the group to leave and then went back to the table and removed 10 dollars...I had returned to the room to get the umbrella I had forgotten...Sheepish, he said it was just too much to leave her. He pocketed the money and walked out...He made money that afternoon.... some people just don't get it...

 

Peggy Sue

[jhannah]

A dead beat tip stiffer will always be a dead beat tip stiffer.

Say that five times real fast!!! Sad but true, Sail.

 

The saddest case I ever heard was just last February on (sorry) another cruise line. A guy was at the purser's desk complaining about the auto tip being charged to both he and his wife. "We're in one room, and the steward had just one bed to make." I could hardly believe my ears. The gentle soul behind the desk was trying to reason with him ... but to no avail. She finally asked how much of the tip he wanted removed. He said, "All of it." sigh. :(

 

About just adding this amount to the cruise fare ... wouldn't that then make those charges taxable revenue for the cruise line? Maybe that's why they're hesitant to do it. But in the name of all that's decent by their employees, it seems like it would be in their best interest to pay extra taxes and take better care of their people.

[saltydog28]

The cruise lines have brought some of this problem upon themselves by calling it a tip or gratuity in the first place. The "tipped" staff makes <$100 per month. I don't know of anyone (cheapskates included) who could say with a straight face that that is an appropriate wage for the work the crew does. Therefore: It's not a tip. It's not a gratuity. It's their paycheck.

 

 

Charlie (stepping down from the soap box ;) )

 

Hi Charlie,

Could you step back up on your soapbox and tell me where you got the figure $100 a month.

Thanks,

Pat.

[OdGregg]

Hi There,

 

New here, and haven't cruised as yet (cruising Alaska starting Aug 26 :) )

 

I'd just like to point out, some of us come from countries that do not have a tipping culture. Here in Australia tipping is not very common at all, and is not expected anywhere really. If you do tip it is generally only for exceptionally helpful service.

 

It may be just because we have reasonable wages here.

 

I'm sure I'm going to find it a bit of a shock having to tip almost everyone while travelling in the US, and to some extent Europe. We're going on an 8 week round the world trip that we've been saving for for ages, and planning for ages and also on a tight budget.

 

I just wish they'd increase the cruise price by 10% and pay their staff more so that we would have known about the extra $10/day 10 months ago when we booked :o

 

Oh, and just a quick question... Are the automatic tips not counted as part of the employees income and therefore not taxed? In Australia that would probably be counted as a tax dodge :)

 

Cheers,

Richard

[Lithium]

Just my humble opinion, but I hate the idea of adding the tips on and making it mandatory. A tip is something given for great service. When its made mandatory or a service charge, it defeats the whole purpose and leaves no motivation for the employee to provide great service. And it no longer becomes a tip. In the end, he/she will get paid the same either way. I agree that people should be tipped, but according to the service they have given, not according to what the cruise line thinks you should pay. Having cruised on NCL lately, I was very disappointed with the service as it was nothing compared to cruises where tips were voluntary. Maybe this isn't a direct reflection of the tipping policy and maybe my case was unique, but it still doesn't change my mind that once its mandatory its no longer a tip.

 

What I think would be a good compromise is for the cruise line to publish expectations on exactly what is expected from the service on ship. That way we would expect certain things and not other things. Part of the problem is the service varies so much from ship to ship and cruise line to cruise line...heck, even person to person, that it is very inconsistent. Given this, its hard for me to swallow that tips will be consistent across the board. It would be nice to see exactly what our steward, waiter etc etc should be doing and when. Then I can see giving a standard service charge to them for services rendered.

 

Unfortunately, I am starting to see a trend in the cruise line business. Cruise lines are trying to cut corners and save money anywhere they can. What this means is that in the end, the customers are the ones that usually will suffer.

[KAKcruiser]

I continue to believe that tips are up to the individual. Some people are generous and tip a lot. Others are not so generous and tip very little. It is still their money and their decision. The cruise lines should not be telling people what to tip and adding automatic gratuities, especially for the behind the scenes employees. The cruise lines should pay their employees what they are worth. If they need more money to pay them, they should charge more for the cruise.

[PrincessMelody]

Is it ok to give your steward and waiter and the other staff who took care of you a thank you card with the tip inside the card? We did that on our first cruise on the Maasdam...I brought along some nice cards and wrote a little note thanking them personally and added cash to the envelopes, then handed them to each and every person that helped us have an wonderful time. (Even the yum-yum guy!)

 

So I shouldn't do this anymore? I really enjoyed letting each person know how much I appreciated the excellent service they gave us.

 

Melody