Credit card Caribbean Princess Fiasco

[bdjam]

The notion of CC companies are watching out for cardholders best interests cannot be more naive and wrong.

I’ve worked in the credit card business for 20 years. Some of the statements – especially this one - are a little harsh. Right, fraud is a part of doing business and companies allow for a good deal of write off due to fraud. And the credit card companies are trying to protect themselves when they work to curtail fraud. But they also don’t want fraud to sully the customer experience…what customer would use a credit card that was constantly subject to fraud?

People dont understand, it is not whenever you use the card out of country, the computer would flag it - I doubt this would be the case - there are some variables go into the equation and I am sure it has a "point" sysem, just like the IRS (how its system determines which return would trigger audit) - because for those people who said they never call, they tend to be people who travel all over the world, some to very far-flung and remote places, and they dont seem to have problem, despite they dont call.

There are behavior models that are used to identify fraudulent and non-fraudulent charging patterns. Every time the credit card is used, the behavior model is accessed. If your credit card usage isn’t within your behavior parameters, an alert is put on the account. When the alert happens depends on the particular issuer’s business processes.

 

If you take a credit card outside of your regular charging pattern (like a foreign country) without notifying your issuer and are able to successfully make charges, either their fraud check is loose, or your charging pattern isn’t outside the model established for your account.

If this is the scheme you allude to, the pattern would usually be, a small charge made to an online outfit, usually just a couple bucks, sometimes to a charity organization, to see if the card info is valid, then the "big one" hits. There might be some time lapse between the test(s) and the "hit", but the big criminals would not make test charges one after another several days in a row - for that would only diminish the chance for fraud - as the longer fraudulent charges going on, the bigger chance it would be detected. They would not lose time if they aim for the "big ones".

Fraud is not methodical. Anyone who is adept at committing fraud does not test a card to see if the card is good. Because fraud is a big issue and card issuers are able to identify it, those who will use a credit card for fraudulent purposes will use it big and use it fast…before the card is shut off.

[TEDMRPH]

You know, I have read this over and over and over again, but have never told my credit card companies (we use either a Visa or Amex) when we leaving the country. And we do leave the country a lot. Never ever has any charge been denied, whether in the U.S., Europe, South America, Africa, etc. I wonder if this doesn't have something to do with a person's history, credit line, whatever. I'm still not inclined to tell them. Maybe I've just been lucky. Can't explain it.

 

Pia

 

I used to never do that also until the last day of one cruise I got a note to come to the pursers desk. I had made some rather large charges at some of the ports. The card company called our house to check on the validity of the charges and since we weren't home they put a hold on the card. When I called the card company they said it is best to let them know if you are taking a trip like this. I wasn't upset with the card company, I actually thanked them for looking out for my account.

 

Needless to say I call each time I take a trip now.

 

Ted

[Coral]

After having my credit card rejected outside of the US - I always call before I leave the country. I also tell them to question any large purchases as I don't spend a lot of money when in ports.

[sewer]

The charges that were posted according to the CC were:

 

3/31 $100.00 WE WERE AT SEA

4/1 $16.28 AT SEA

4/2 $35.95 sT MAARTEN

4/3 37.10 ST. THOMAS

 

neither one of those charges were made by us, again ...We did not know about this charges until yesterday when I called the CC to question about the dear John letter from the purser office dated 4/3 about a $37.00 charges, my husband, requested to see a copy of the charges, but was giving the run around by the pursers cleck, anyway, thasnks all for all your comments. I'll not write more about this.

[Pia1913]

Somewhere along the way I missed something. What is a Dear John letter (other than the one a serviceman gets from his girl)?

 

Pia

[sewer]

My Dear John Letter...was The One That We Got From The Pursers Office Telling Us That The Charge For $37.00 Was Refused.

 

Enough Of This ......

[nho9504]

I’ve worked in the credit card business for 20 years. Some of the statements – especially this one - are a little harsh. Right, fraud is a part of doing business and companies allow for a good deal of write off due to fraud. And the credit card companies are trying to protect themselves when they work to curtail fraud. But they also don’t want fraud to sully the customer experience…what customer would use a credit card that was constantly subject to fraud?

 

I wish you work for Chase, so you would give some lectures to their fraud dept - It is precisely because one of the managers at the Fraud Alert Dept at Chase told me, THERE IS NO WAY TO PREVENT SUBSEQUENT FRAUDULENT CHARGE TO GO THRU YOUR CARD FROM THAT MERCHANT, whether you cancel that card or not. Why would we continue to use that card, if the fraud already happened, and would potentially continue to happen, and the bank would not, can not, do anything about it?! If the card companies truly also have customers interests in mind, why would they not take some action, like tracking down some criminals and prosecute them? Only that happens, that I may be convince that the CC companies are not acting out of their self-serving interest. Like another poster said, all they want to, is to sell you the protection plan, which protects nothing because the cardholders would owe nothing, once the fraudulent charges are reported within the required timeframe.[/color]

 

There are behavior models that are used to identify fraudulent and non-fraudulent charging patterns. Every time the credit card is used, the behavior model is accessed. If your credit card usage isn’t within your behavior parameters, an alert is put on the account. When the alert happens depends on the particular issuer’s business processes.

 

If you take a credit card outside of your regular charging pattern (like a foreign country) without notifying your issuer and are able to successfully make charges, either their fraud check is loose, or your charging pattern isn’t outside the model established for your account.

 

That is my point - whether the card is being used outside the country or not, does not seem to make a difference if your card is frozen. Citi called me on 2 occasions - one that I had no idea why - a gas station purchase made 5 miles south of our home address, we got a call the next day. The other one I can understand - I paid for a custom-built computer with a 1200 charge to a small business. There are 2 things out of ordinary - one is, we hardly make a single charge over a thousand, other than for travel-related items, the other is, the merchant is a very small business. So Citi called 2 days later to verify the charge.

 

I also have Chase declined the purchase I made on AMAZON to purchase a 46" LCD flat panel TV, at a pop of $1999. AMAZON must have this kind of declines a lot, the company has it down to a science - an email is sent to me to instruct me how to contact the merchant and then resubmit my card info. So I followed that instruction to call Chase and the India-based CSR put a notation on the card, release the freeze on the card but I have to contact AMAZON to resubmit the authorization request to make the purchase. FWIW, the card does not seen any single charge over a thousand in the past, and is being used sparingly. So despite the purchase used up less than 15% of the available credit, it was declined. This jsut going to show, whether the card is used domestically or aboard, makes NO DIFFERENCE. It is the history of the charge pattern and whatever goes into the equation, that trigger the flagging or not. This is my point - using in foreign countries by itself, is NOT the criteria to flag a card - it depends on the holder's charging history.

 

COLOR=black]Fraud is not methodical. Anyone who is adept at committing fraud does not test a card to see if the card is good. Because fraud is a big issue and card issuers are able to identify it, those who will use a credit card for fraudulent purposes will use it big and use it fast…before the card is shut off.

 

You said exactly what I had said, the criminals would not wait long to make the "big hit". However, they do test card's info whether it is good info or not by making a smallish, un-noticeable charge, usually to an online outfit. I am surprised you are not aware of such. Friends have seen some unknown $1 or $2 charges on their statements - turned out some donations they never made - CC issuers told them the cards were compromised, and accounts were closed, New cards issued.

 

For the "test", another popular one is, at the pump of gas station. That may be why the newer set up would require entry of zip code before it would accept the card. I am not sure if the zip code entry is incorrect, other than the pump does not work then, what is going to happen with the card itself - whould that info being sent to the CC companies, thus alert the system? Who knows. May be you can shed some light on this.

[cubfan60004]

Just to set the record straight. I work for an acquirer (we processes transactions for merchants through the associations, ie; Visa/MC) The issuing bank is never out the money for fraudulent transactions. They do what is called a chargeback (funds are immediately withdrawn from the merchants bank account on file while its investigated) to the merchant.

 

The merchant is the one who is out the money or the product that was purchased fraudulently. But ultimately, all consumers, pay for the fraudulent purchases as merchants raise prices to cover loses.

[caribill]

a. I have been called several times to check on charges to my cards. Once I had been back in the country after a several week cruise. During that time, there were no charges to that card. Once I returned, I had charges such as parking at the airport, getting food at the grocery, eating at a local restaurant, pictures processed at a local drugstore. I received a call on my 2nd day back making sure that all of these charges were legit.

 

b. Another time I received a call about charges made to a card that I had not used for over a year. These charges were not legit. The account was closed, and a new card with a new number issued. I never could figure out how the crook(s) got a hold of my number since the card had not been used for a while.

 

c. A relative received a call when two overseas charges were made to a card. The first was for $0.00 and was obviously a test. The second was for a much higher amount. Same story: card was cancelled and a new one issued with a new number.

 

On the subject of entering the ZIP code at the gas pump. I live in a town of over 50,000 people with only one ZIP code. Any locally stolen card would be usable locally as the crook only has to enter in the ZIP code that applies to the whole area. Obviously not usable if stolen and attempted to be used while out of town.

[Pia1913]

 

On the subject of entering the ZIP code at the gas pump. I live in a town of over 50,000 people with only one ZIP code. Any locally stolen card would be usable locally as the crook only has to enter in the ZIP code that applies to the whole area. Obviously not usable if stolen and attempted to be used while out of town.

 

My experience with gas pumps and zip codes is that only Mobil asks for them. Perhaps this is only regional. No clue.

 

Pia

[Philip217]

Inexperienced travelers - regardless of how many cruises they have taken - don't quite understand how cruise lines charge their credit cards.

 

1. The passenger gives the credit card number through the travel agent, over the internet, or at check-in on the pier. No charges are made.

 

2. After boarding, the ship contacts the credit card company for authorization for a "hold" on the card limit, which averages about US$60 per day of the cruise. No charges are made.

 

3. At the end of the cruise, very early on the last morning, after all revenue areas are closed and all cash payments are received, the ship transmits the final charges in batch files to all the credit card companies for approval. This is when the charges are made.

 

Cruise ships do not make charges to credit cards during the cruise - unless someone requests to make a very special purchase on another card. Or possibly if the passengers leave the ship before the cruise ends.

 

The OP seems very confused about how credit cards in general work. There will be a very clear paper trail of whoever charged her card. It is very easy to follow up and have any erroneous or fraudulent charges removed. Most likely someone got his hands on the credit card number and chose to use it during the card holder's vacation - when the credit card company would expect these charges to be made, and when the card holder would not be accessing her account details as often.

[janetz]

My Dear John Letter...was The One That We Got From The Pursers Office Telling Us That The Charge For $37.00 Was Refused.

 

Enough Of This ......

 

 

You are the one who started this thread..:rolleyes: Didn't you expect people to voice an opinon?

[teripp]

Do you think someone accidently put your cc on somelses room?? If the charges are shipboard that would be a good possibility

[quincytoo]

The charges that were posted according to the CC were:

 

3/31 $100.00 WE WERE AT SEA

4/1 $16.28 AT SEA

4/2 $35.95 sT MAARTEN

4/3 37.10 ST. THOMAS

 

neither one of those charges were made by us, again ...We did not know about this charges until yesterday when I called the CC to question about the dear John letter from the purser office dated 4/3 about a $37.00 charges, my husband, requested to see a copy of the charges, but was giving the run around by the pursers cleck, anyway, thasnks all for all your comments. I'll not write more about this.

 

 

Does the CC say that PRINCESS made the charges against your card Why don't you track down who made the actual charges??

 

When we were on the Diamond Princess we had one charge (actually not as large as we thought considering the wine and activities, etc, etc ) on our CC at the end of the cruise, rather like each and every hotel or resort we have ever stayed at.

 

Your posts do not make sense to me and I don't understand why you are getting so upset about people questioning your thread?? <----really NOT trying to be rude just a little confused why you are getting upset?? Has it been proven that Princess made those (fraudulent?) charges?

[coiran]

There are codes on your receipt from Princess that indicates where the charge was made - and - as I mentioned before the customer service desk can get the receipts from that particular day and location and check who signed them. If they were individual charges on your CC they were not made by Princess, but perhaps by someone else on shore who has your CC number

 

Ron

[bhopal21]

If they were individual charges on your CC they were not made by Princess, but perhaps by someone else on shore who has your CC number

 

Ron

 

I agree Ron. From the information that has been provided it appears this card was compromised shortly before the sailing began.

 

Mike:)

[GottoCruise]

We always notify the CC's in use when we leave the country.

 

One time (only) in Australia/NewZealand - credit was refused........had to call Amex (middle of the night in the US) and straighten things out.

 

Seems there is a 'stop alert' on the credit line from one country to another in too short a time???

 

Anyway, credit history cannot be any better than ours.....we use multiple cards to maximize miles, points, other 'schemes' etc....and I always stay on top of our charges..........:D

[dennis99ss]

generaational gap here I think.

 

If your cc was cut off on a fraud alert for a $100 and a couple of $30 charges i would think the charges were either to a company that is so unlike your charging history, say the adult book store, or, you never use the card, and after having it for a while this was one of the first times you used it. Then, when asked about the charges, you get defensive and act like your credit is being attacked. Yet, you still have not answered the question, which is, were these charges made by princess, or are they off vessel locations? Frnkly, i still don't understand if the charges you complain of were on the CC or the room charge.

 

Plus, why get po'd at the cc company? They did you a favor if the charges were not yours. And, if you need a new card asap, they could have made arrangements direct with princess, or overnighted you a new card, or you could walk into a service center at the next port and picked one up.

 

I don't get what the big deal is.

 

just my .02

[Buddy604]

Funny thing. I've never had problems travelling with my visa, but it's gotten to the point where I need to let Amex know anytime I'm going to be out of town unless I want a surprise decline.

 

You'd think they'd get it - I'm a travel agent and it's my corporate card, but nope! :D

[ShoMeChiefsFan]

Pia, I am also guilty of never alerting my Credit Card company we are leaving the country, but never had a problem one. Everywhere from Austraila to the Caribbean to Europe and most points inbetween, and have never had a problem with our card not being accepted. But, I wonder if maybe some cards are different? The Visa we use has never been questioned.

 

 

it alll depends on the level of security that your lender(bank) has provided for your protection, and theirs.

I have had this happen, but i was the one making the charges, i was placed on a fraud alert, until my call generated to my bank to explain i was on vacation, since i was over 1200 miles away from home, and had multiple charges go thru from different areas, will raise the security level up, especially if you normally dont travel that much....I am so glad my bank had placed this on a alert status, for my protection, and theirs, yes it was inconvience, but i have got threw it.

 

I have also had a employee from Walmart, in advertly try to enter my pin number on a credit card transaction, when in fact she hit debit card, and then entered the wrong number in several times, after like 3 tries the card was locked until a phone call to my bank was generated!

 

I guess it can happen, if one was to leave a there sign and sail card some where, or forgets that his card was left, someone else picks up the card, and then begins placing charges on the card, then i can see where this could be fraud.

On my last cruise (3/30/08) the wind was so strong, that sign/sail cards were being blown all over the ship!