Flight delays may get WORSE this week

[SakeDad]

Flight cancellations and delays could get worse before they get better!:eek: Midwest Express has been added to the list of airlines affected today. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24049105

[hawaiilvr]

I am apalled by the airlines in this whole fiasco. As a former Air Force aircraft mechanic (trained by the letter of the law for safety so I have a little expertise in the matter) it is unacceptable for them to miss inspections by 18 months (AA) or 30 months (SWA). Regardless of being "caught" by the FAA, their #1 responsibility is to get passengers from point A to point B with all their limbs attached. If they don't do that, nobody will fly with them and their profits will disappear and they will go out of business (think ValuJet). They did this to themselves. They should not have to be babysat!

 

The airlines need to be ashamed of themselves. What a mess they have made. All of this could have been avoided by following the FAA directives in a timely manner instead of waiting for their entire fleet to be out of complaince.

 

Enough venting. I feel for those who are caught in this mess.

[BeachBumMama]

The airlines need to be ashamed of themselves. What a mess they have made. All of this could have been avoided by following the FAA directives in a timely manner instead of waiting for their entire fleet to be out of complaince.

 

Enough venting. I feel for those who are caught in this mess.

I feel the exact same way. I saw a thing on the news tonight about American Airlines and something in the wheel wells that supposed to be 1" apart and it's about 1 1/4" apart. So they have to fix it. Didn't catch the whole thing but lot's and lot's of peeved passengers, as well they should be.

 

What's infuriating even more is they just cancel 500 planes (because of something they should have been on top of in the first place) and don't blink an eye at the hundreds and hundreds of passengers they have inconvenienced. Knowing when they were going to do this, the least they could do have done was given people a warning ahead of time to make alternate arrangements etc. instead of having people stranded all over the place. And they'll get by with not much more than giving the stranded passengers their flight ticket they purchased in the first place, because they'll say 'mechanical' problems and they won't owe them anything more.

 

They certaintly aren't going to compensate them anymore than they feel necessary. Are they even offering a discount on a future flight? I don't think so, and because of that I can tell you that they'll be in much more financial trouble than they already are. In most cases there is always another choice out there. They'll certainly wish they had complied in a timely manner to begin with. It's an example of large corporate feeling 'entitled' to do as they wish at the cost of their customers.

 

Okay, I'm done venting. :p Did feel pretty good too.:D

[bluesea777]

Be aware that it's the flights that use MD-80 aircrafts that are affected.

 

The flights between Bermuda and mainland USA are unaffected as they do not use MD-80.

 

Also the transatlantic flights are not affected either.

[SakeDad]

Be aware that it's the flights that use MD-80 aircrafts that are affected.

 

The flights between Bermuda and mainland USA are unaffected as they do not use MD-80.

 

Also the transatlantic flights are not affected either.

 

YET!!!!!!:p

[DMRick]

Woildn't they be affected, if people can't get to their transatlantic flights :(

We are going on a puddle jumper to NYC, so we shouldn't be affected, but people flying longer distances within the states to their TA may be.

 

Be aware that it's the flights that use MD-80 aircrafts that are affected.

 

The flights between Bermuda and mainland USA are unaffected as they do not use MD-80.

 

Also the transatlantic flights are not affected either.

[SakeDad]

Be aware that it's the flights that use MD-80 aircrafts that are affected.

 

The flights between Bermuda and mainland USA are unaffected as they do not use MD-80.

 

Also the transatlantic flights are not affected either.

 

There's another article on MSN.com about what to do if your flight is canceled... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24050048/

Here's a quote about how other airlines and planes COULD be next..."

As to which airline is next, that’s anyone’s guess. Timothy O’Neille Dunne, a travel technology consultant based in Claymont, Del., compiled a list of likely airlines to follow American on his blog. Among them: Delta Air Lines, which operates more than 100 MD-80s and some MD-90s, Allegiant Air and Alaska Airlines. Internationally, troubled Alitalia operates 75 MD-80s, according to O’Neille Dunne. So far, there have been scattered reports of cancellations at Delta, Alaska and Midwest Airlines, though not on the scale of American."

There's also another article about how this is affecting an already unstable US economy at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24055079/ This is going to be a HUGE MESS:mad: :mad: :mad: for all of us, whether we are cruising tomorrow or next year.

[can'twaittogoagain]

We did a RT IND-FLL early March, changing planes in Atlanta (Delta). It was bad enough then. Delayed flight...we literally had to run through the Atlanta airport to make our connection, and, even though it was also a Delta flight we were told that they would not hold the plane even knowing we were late getting in. The whole thing was a pain.

 

Didn't mean to hijack the topic, but we are really thinking hard about whether or not we are going to book another cruise any time soon until some of this stuff settles. I don't like what I see as a passenger, but I would be mad as all get out if I were working for one of those airlines....flying on some of those crafts a couple of times a day.

[Ms belp]

There's another article on MSN.com about what to do if your flight is canceled... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24050048/

Here's a quote about how other airlines and planes COULD be next..."

As to which airline is next, that’s anyone’s guess. Timothy O’Neille Dunne, a travel technology consultant based in Claymont, Del., compiled a list of likely airlines to follow American on his blog. Among them: Delta Air Lines, which operates more than 100 MD-80s and some MD-90s, Allegiant Air and Alaska Airlines. Internationally, troubled Alitalia operates 75 MD-80s, according to O’Neille Dunne. So far, there have been scattered reports of cancellations at Delta, Alaska and Midwest Airlines, though not on the scale of American."

There's also another article about how this is affecting an already unstable US economy at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24055079/ This is going to be a HUGE MESS:mad: :mad: :mad: for all of us, whether we are cruising tomorrow or next year.

 

Yep, I agree 100%! I am already worried about our early May cruise. I hate to fly anyway, and worrying about safety issues doesn't help. Plus, all the rest of the issues. Amtrack is starting to sound better and better. At least it's on the ground, not 30,000 feet in the air.:eek:

[SakeDad]

We did a RT IND-FLL early March' date=' changing planes in Atlanta (Delta). It was bad enough then. Delayed flight...we literally had to run through the Atlanta airport to make our connection, and, even though it was also a Delta flight we were told that they would not hold the plane even knowing we were late getting in. The whole thing was a pain.

 

Didn't mean to hijack the topic, but we are really thinking hard about whether or not we are going to book another cruise any time soon until some of this stuff settles. I don't like what I see as a passenger, but I would be mad as all get out if I were working for one of those airlines....flying on some of those crafts a couple of times a day.[/quote']

 

Yep....I'm afraid this may hurt all kinds of side industries....tourism being one of the main ones!!

 

Yep, I agree 100%! I am already worried about our early May cruise. I hate to fly anyway, and worrying about safety issues doesn't help. Plus, all the rest of the issues. Amtrack is starting to sound better and better. At least it's on the ground, not 30,000 feet in the air.:eek:

 

I wish Amtrak went from LA to Vegas, I'd book it NOW! You may want to check on the schedule and price now...before it gets popular and sells out or they raise the fares.

[Ms belp]

Yep....I'm afraid this may hurt all kinds of side industries....tourism being one of the main ones!!

 

 

 

I wish Amtrak went from LA to Vegas, I'd book it NOW! You may want to check on the schedule and price now...before it gets popular and sells out or they raise the fares.

 

It must go. My SO's parents always take Amtrak to LA and stop in Las Vegas for a couple of days before continuing on to LA.

[SakeDad]

It must go. My SO's parents always take Amtrak to LA and stop in Las Vegas for a couple of days before continuing on to LA.

Nope....Amtrak does NOT have a Las Vegas station....go to their website and you will see that not only in their schedules but on their national map. They will put you on a bus here....that's it. There has been much talk over the years of building an LA-Vegas express rail route, maybe all this airline turmoil will make it happen:rolleyes:

[electricron]

Nope....Amtrak does NOT have a Las Vegas station....go to their website and you will see that not only in their schedules but on their national map. They will put you on a bus here....that's it. There has been much talk over the years of building an LA-Vegas express rail route, maybe all this airline turmoil will make it happen:rolleyes:

 

To get that high speed rail from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, both Nevada and California will have to chip in some cash. California's willing, but apparently not Nevada. To be fast, a new dedicated, electrified rail line would have to be built through the desert, the San Gabriel Mountains, and the L.A. basin. The existing rail lines are clogged by slow freights.

Using the existing line, at 40 mph, it would take 6 hours to travel the approximately 240 miles. At 150 mph, it would take less than 2 hours.

It's 40 mph because the condition of the existing track is so poor.

 

It's more likely a S.F. to L.A HSR would be built first. Tunneling through the San Gabriel Mountains isn't going to be cheap. Once it's done, it's only the high desert between Las Vegas and that future California only rail line.

 

We've been had by the airlines. While fast, the airlines seem to go broke regularly. In the past few years, I don't think any has turned a profit every quarter.

Even SW Airlines lost money in one quarter.

[Carnac767]

I am apalled by the airlines in this whole fiasco. As a former Air Force aircraft mechanic (trained by the letter of the law for safety so I have a little expertise in the matter) it is unacceptable for them to miss inspections by 18 months (AA) or 30 months (SWA). Regardless of being "caught" by the FAA, their #1 responsibility is to get passengers from point A to point B with all their limbs attached. If they don't do that, nobody will fly with them and their profits will disappear and they will go out of business (think ValuJet). They did this to themselves. They should not have to be babysat!

 

The airlines need to be ashamed of themselves. What a mess they have made. All of this could have been avoided by following the FAA directives in a timely manner instead of waiting for their entire fleet to be out of complaince.

 

Enough venting. I feel for those who are caught in this mess.

 

Valujet didn't go out of business. It became Airtran.

[bobnatt]

Whenever I go on a cruise and need to travel by air to the embarkation port I always leave a day or two ahead of time to allow for airline problems. I can't imagine what folks do if they leave from their home town the morning of the cruise and there is some glitch like weather, safety repairs or bankruptcy's that mess up their travel plans. it just ain't worth it...

[newmexicoNita]

Nope....Amtrak does NOT have a Las Vegas station....go to their website and you will see that not only in their schedules but on their national map. They will put you on a bus here....that's it. There has been much talk over the years of building an LA-Vegas express rail route, maybe all this airline turmoil will make it happen:rolleyes:

There has been talk about that for years. Even when we still lived in So Ca 25 years ago. As for AmTrak, I didn't realize they didn't stop in Las Vegas. There is a train station downtown Vegas and there used to be 2 scheduled trains a day. I wonder what happened?

 

As for the airline fianco, my poor daughter works for AA in Orlando of all places. It is a nightmare when there are no problems.

 

Nita

[chrisbd1]

It must go. My SO's parents always take Amtrak to LA and stop in Las Vegas for a couple of days before continuing on to LA.

 

No, they take Amtrak to LA, visit relatives, rent a car and drive to Vegas, spend my inheritance, and drive back to LA to visit some more ;)

[SakeDad]

No, they take Amtrak to LA, visit relatives, rent a car and drive to Vegas, spend my inheritance, and drive back to LA to visit some more ;)

And thank God they do!! It's what keeps us from paying state income tax!:D

[AliCat22]

In two weeks we're supposed to take an Amer. Airlines MD-80 from DFW to Seattle. Hopefully the mess with those particular planes will be over, but even if it is, I hope the net doesn't widen to catch the puddle jumpers we'll fly to and from DFW.

Of course, if they need maintenance, fine...I want to be safe. I'm just a little nervous, like a lot of other people, I'm sure!

[NCL_Cruiser]

Didn't mean to hijack the topic' date=' but we are really thinking hard about whether or not we are going to book another cruise any time soon until some of this stuff settles. I don't like what I see as a passenger, but I would be mad as all get out if I were working for one of those airlines....flying on some of those crafts a couple of times a day.[/quote']

 

Or at least consider a pre-cruise package, arriving at least one day prior to sailing. That way, you at least have a chance of getting to the port of embarkation in time...;) :eek:

[NCL_Cruiser]

I wish Amtrak went from LA to Vegas, I'd book it NOW! You may want to check on the schedule and price now...before it gets popular and sells out or they raise the fares.

 

You'd still need to book yourself a two day cushion...Amtrak's on-time record is probably comparable to the worst airline. With all the idiots driving through the crossing arms and getting hit, attempted suicide jumpers and freight trains hogging the tracks, you're highly unlikely to make it ontime...

[Ms belp]

In two weeks we're supposed to take an Amer. Airlines MD-80 from DFW to Seattle. Hopefully the mess with those particular planes will be over, but even if it is, I hope the net doesn't widen to catch the puddle jumpers we'll fly to and from DFW.

Of course, if they need maintenance, fine...I want to be safe. I'm just a little nervous, like a lot of other people, I'm sure!

 

We are booked on Southwest out of Love Field. Even though I'm really upset with them (I think they've done irreparable (sp?) damage to their reputation.) I can't believe Herb would let something like this happen. He worked so hard to give this airline an image. It used to be so fun to fly them.:(

[Globaliser]

I am apalled by the airlines in this whole fiasco. As a former Air Force aircraft mechanic (trained by the letter of the law for safety so I have a little expertise in the matter) it is unacceptable for them to miss inspections by 18 months (AA) or 30 months (SWA).

...

The airlines need to be ashamed of themselves. What a mess they have made. All of this could have been avoided by following the FAA directives in a timely manner instead of waiting for their entire fleet to be out of complaince.

But this isn't what has happened - at least at AA.

 

There are a couple of things which have just been circulated by AA which explain what has happened. Even if you strip away the overlay from the fact that they originate from the company, you'll see that it's nothing like how you've described it. Although the explanations are very technical, it wasn't a case of the airline just ignoring what had to be done or "missing inspections for 18 months". In large measure, they had done what they were supposed to have done. But it wasn't quite right.

 

First, a note sent by AA to employees:-

So what happened? After just having completed an inspection a few weeks earlier, what put the MD-80 fleet back in the shop? What will the relationship between American and the FAA look like going forward?

 

Executive Vice President of Operations Bob Reding, speaking on a conference call, took the time to explain the circumstances that led to the second grounding of the MD-80s.

 

Safety Never Compromised

 

But first, he emphasized that at no time had AA ever flown an MD-80 that was at risk of having problems due to wiring in the wheel well. "We took the lead to design a safety net to ensure that no chafing would occur," he said. When the issue was first discovered in 2004, American wrote the original service bulletin to correct the problem.

 

By the time the FAA issued the Airworthiness Directive (AD) in 2006, American had already incorporated the repairs per the service bulletin . "We were well ahead of the AD," Reding explained.

 

But the AD included some minor, yet very specific, differences. Among them, the exact spacing between ties, the position of holding clips and the slack allowed in the wiring bundle. This prompted an Engineering Change Order (ECO) to address the differences.

 

Differences Highly Unusual

 

Everyone recalls the week of March 26, when American had to do some AD reviews as a result of another carrier's failure to comply within a timely manner to an entirely different AD. "When the FAA inspected our aircraft, they found some minor issues such as the tie spacing, the tube installation and the amount of overlap, because the service bulletin was something different than what the AD provided." Reding said this was highly unusual because ADs normally come from service bulletins so the work doesn't have to be done twice.

 

AA completed inspecting, and repairing as necessary, what Reding said were seven specific items and then put the aircraft back in service.

 

Then, on April 7, the FAA went back to inspect what was accomplished two weeks earlier, but then said there were some other items that were not addressed. The FAA discovered that on 8 out of 9 aircraft inspected that there were one or more minor issues. Per American's commitment to be 100 percent compliant with any AD, the company decided it had sufficient concerns to again take the aircraft out of service.

 

Moving Forward

 

"So what are we doing today? We are pretty much removing the work done per the service bulletin from our airplanes, and installing the wire protective system exactly as prescribed by the Airworthiness Directive," Reding said.

 

Going forward, Reding said American will change procedures to match the new way the FAA is handling ADs. "We have learned this is a new day with the FAA and we will ensure moving forward that we will meet all new requirements."

 

"I can't express my thanks and appreciation enough for the efforts of all of our front line managers and employees, our AMTs, our STORES people, our pilots, our flight attendants - all the people that touch our customers, including reservations and all of our support teams that have worked diligently to get 300 aircraft modified to these exacting specifications."

Second, from an explanation attached to an email sent by AA to customers:-

American Airlines MD-80 Fleet Inspections

 

Background: In 2004, American Airlines was the lead airline working with Boeing to develop a Service Bulletin to correct wiring exposure and chafing in the MD-80 auxiliary hydraulic pump wire bundle. The concern was that exposure and chafing could cause fire in the wheel well. An Airworthiness Directive (AD) was issued in September 2006, giving MD-80 operators, including American, 18 months to address this issue. American completed the Service Bulletin in November 2006, followed by adjustments deemed necessary by American's structural engineers to comply with the AD well ahead of a March 2008 deadline.

 

In recent weeks the Federal Aviation Administration significantly increased its emphasis on monitoring the adherence to Airworthiness Directives that apply to various U.S. airlines. With respect to American Airlines' MD-80 fleet, we had a detailed issue that we believed had to be addressed immediately to remain compliant with the FAA; if found in non-compliance, we would have been instructed to stop flying our airplanes.

 

What is the specific nature of the issue?

The issue surrounds questions raised by the FAA about the way American implemented the Engineering Change Order (ECO) addressing the MD-80 auxiliary pump wiring Airworthiness Directive (AD). American fixed the item well within the specified AD timeframe. The work being done now centers on a need to change the way in which American complied with the AD regarding such items as the spacing of the ties on the wiring bundles and the direction of the retention clips and lacing cords. We are highly confident that this is not a safety of flight issue because the wire bundle is secure. It is a matter of how the work was done, not whether aircraft were protected from the threat of wire exposure and chafing that could cause fire.

 

Why ground the entire MD-80 fleet?

It became clear based on the number of questions the FAA raised that there would be a high percentage of aircraft that would not be found to be in full compliance of the Airworthiness Directive. Working with the FAA we were unable to find an alternative solution to regaining compliance – for example, a multi-day period to rectify the issues – so we had no choice but to ground the aircraft. While it has been a major disruption to AA's operation, everyone recognizes the need to ensure that the MD-80 fleet is in complete compliance and is working to restore the MD-80s back to service as quickly as possible.

 

Who is completing the work and why is it taking longer than the previous MD-80 inspections?

There are three levels of American employees accomplishing the work. American has assigned a team of employees – aviation maintenance technicians, quality assurance inspectors, and engineers – to inspect the aircraft and ensure full technical compliance, as well as to make any additional adjustments. As our aircraft return to service, the FAA is inspecting those aircraft to ensure compliance.

 

What is the airline doing for customers?

We are doing everything possible to take care of our customers as expeditiously as possible while facing the fact that our resources have been stretched to their limits. We are extremely sorry for the inconvenience and know that this kind of interruption of travel plans is unacceptable. While customers are dislocated we are providing meals, hotels and ground transportation; for those stranded overnight, we will offer vouchers for future travel on American Airlines. Customers who were inconvenienced with overnight stays can go to AA.com where a link will guide them to instructions on how to receive compensation.

 

What is the company doing to make sure it doesn't happen again?

American plans to contract with an independent third party to review American's compliance processes. This work will help ensure that all procedures strictly adhere to the technical elements of every directive so American can avoid this type of schedule disruption in the future.

In this second item, I've underlined the key sentence. The FAA was simply unwilling to countenance a non-disruptive approach to a problem which was not short-term safety critical. Although the FAA was probably within its rights to do so, it doesn't change the fact that it has - for political reasons that are nothing to do with safety - decided to embark on a hysterical and totally unnecessary over-reaction to this problem.

[Carnac767]

We are booked on Southwest out of Love Field. Even though I'm really upset with them (I think they've done irreparable (sp?) damage to their reputation.) I can't believe Herb would let something like this happen. He worked so hard to give this airline an image. It used to be so fun to fly them.:(

 

No, he just stuck it to American.

[garycarla]

Right on Globaliser.

 

Too bad so many people are slamming AA with comments like:

 

- they don't care about our safety

- they don't care about their customers

- they are just saving money on fuel

- they could have planned this better

 

and the all time classic that I hear all the time when traveling:

 

I am never going to fly them again

 

Too bad people do not put any thought or logic into the situation. Do they really think an airline wanted to put themselves in this position? Spend a $100 million to accomodate people. Give business to everyone else? Get everyone mad at them? etc. etc. etc.

 

Oh well.