Hal- Mexican Riviera 2009

[Cruise Fanatic]

What is up with HAL. I booked a B2B MR cruise on the Oosterdam for Dec 5, and the 12th 2009. Got a great rate. Any way this past friday, I got a e-mail from my TA, telling me that the cruise had been cancelled. I was offered several options:

.

(1) could rebook another cruise at the PREVAILING rate, and I would also be given a Shipboard Credit of $75.00 pp.

(2) Get my deposit back.

.

Well I checked with HAL to see what else was available in late 2009. and guess what....No Ryndam, No Ooosterdam... In fact after April 2009 I don't see any cruises for the MR listed...What is up with HAL.

.

My TA told me that she had talked to their HAL Rep, and even they were not aware of all of this "ship shuffling". Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

[cruz chic]

No kidding. I was looking forward to going to Mexico on HAL in Oct.09 but it doesn't appear that is going to happen. I can't believe they wouldn't have any ships there. There has to be a lot of ships in the Caribbean. Bring one over from there:D .

[RevNeal]

This is the second year in a row (that I can remember) that HAL has established a full schedule, started selling cruises on it, and then turned around and completely revamped the entire schedule for certain markets right down to which ships are sailing where and when. Not just a few charters or some-such, but a whole re-vamping of the schedule. This CAN'T be good business practice, and it worries me. Someone in fleet logistics is screwing up.

 

I wonder if HAL is going to leave the West-Coat of Mexico runs altogether? Those cruises were so cheap, and the competition so stiff, that maybe HAL decided that they just couldn't afford to operate there for the price it demanded ... similar to how they pulled out of New York? Perhaps ... but I sure hope not.

 

I wonder where the Ryndam is going to go after Alaska 2009. The Cruise Schedule still shows her going back to Mexico in mid-September 2009, but the website no longer shows any ships in Mexico after March 2009. Indeed, HAL's website doesn't list ANY cruises for the Ryndam in April of 2009, and she doesn't reappear until May 8, 2009 for the first of the Alaska 2009 Season.

[Atomica]

This is the second year in a row (that I can remember) that HAL has established a full schedule, started selling cruises on it, and then turned around and completely revamped the entire schedule for certain markets right down to which ships are sailing where and when. Not just a few charters or some-such, but a whole re-vamping of the schedule. This CAN'T be good business practice, and it worries me. Someone in fleet logistics is screwing up.

 

I agree. Plus, it generates bad publicity - or at the very least, bad word-of-mouth. Worse, the 2009 Caribbean & Mexico brochure just came out in earnest, and people are going to be looking at cruises that simply no longer exist.

 

If HAL pulls out of the Mexican Riviera altogether, that leaves Princess, Royal Caribbean, NCL, and Carnival - and maybe the odd Crystal sailing.

I notice Celebrity pulled out of the MR a few years ago and has no plans to go back.

 

Carnival & RCI both gave the Mexican Riviera run an extra boost by committing two new ships to the route in early 2009. Maybe HAL's issue lies with the fact that it's kept the same ships on the run for a few straight years now (just personally, this was a factor in us choosing the Golden Princess this year - we wanted to do the MR again, but not on the exact same ship, and the Ryndam's cruise was too long for us).

 

It will be interesting to see where the Ryndam gets re-deployed to.

[hammybee]

It looks to me like the Oosterdam 2006/7/8 winter seasons were disappointing to HAL from a revenue standpoint. Making a change 18-19 months into the future, given the existing and growing economic uncertainties makes sense to me.

 

Consumers are fickle. Consumers want decent cheap cruises from drive to ports. No one knows this better than the mass marketed cruise lines. Such consumer expectations are probably best met by large ships with better economies of scale.

 

If and when it becomes necessary to deep discount the Oosterdam, in South America, I think the onboard revenues have a better shot of offsetting the cabin price, than they do in Mexico.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

hammy, i have to disagree with you here. The Oosterdam had the highest revenue consistantly of any HAL ship for 3 seasons. This information comes from both Management and managment of the on board shops. The Oosterdam up till this last fall always exceded both Caribbean and Europe of on board shops sales. Last year the Westerdam had dismal on board shop sale while they were in Europe after the Dry Dock and they could not wait to get her back to the U.S. Then this last year ALL of the ships have seen a decrease but mostly due to the economy. In 2005 and 2006 the Oosterdam Management hit all their levels for bonuses due to high revenue. The Oosterdam was truly their money maker. This info came from more than one source. This is why I find it interesting that HAL wants to pull the Oosterdam out. Just because it suddenly falls ONE season. My goodness everything has fallen this past year. But they THINK that the almighty Euro is going to save them. Yesterday alone I received 2 emails giving away FREE Air Fare to Europe because they cannot sell the current years Europe sailings and one of the emails was for all sailing all the way thru December. Just what is going to happen next year when there is almost double the ships in Europe. I personally still think this is going to bite the cruiselines in the butt. This is a huge mistake for HAL to pull out of the MR just because they had one season that profits were down and not up:mad: They just need to hang on like all the other U.S. industries and ride this out, we will come out of this.

[hammybee]

The Oosterdam had the highest revenue consistantly of any HAL ship for 3 seasons. This information comes from both Management and managment of the on board shops.

 

I heard the same thing from the onboard management of the Noordam. Go figure.

 

We are both in sales and know how easy it is to slice and dice to create the perception of being #1. :eek: For all we know, the Oosterdam was probably #1 in Mexico as was the Noordam, in Alaska. And yet both of these winners have been redeployed elsewhere, for future winters.

 

I think that it probably comes down to the Art Auctions, the greatest subsisdy ever.

[hammybee]

 

They just need to hang on like all the other U.S. industries and ride this out, we will come out of this.

 

In good times, most big business expands to stay ahead of consumer demand, " build it and they will come" .

 

Just speculation on my part, here.......perhaps the objective is to not hang on like the others, because hanging on in tough U.S. economies often means bankruptcy protection and mergers/ acquisitions.

 

The 500 pound gorilla of cruising needs its Wheaties, now more than ever.

[O2B@C]

Well, I for one was hoping someday to do the Sea of Cortez itinerary that the Ryndam has been doing. I don't really care whether it's on the Ryndam or another ship, but I do hope HAL doesn't drop that itinerary altogether. We cruise for scenery and wildlife, and HAL is our cruise line of choice by a long shot, so that one would be a real loss to us if HAL discontinues it.

 

Are you listening, "Seattle"?

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Yes they may need the Wheaties but this is a Knee Jerk reaction because they have signed on the bottom line to spend a lot of money with the Eurodam, her new sister ship as well as the expansion of the S Class ships. They are thinking they will out run the problem in the US without really looking at the spending styles of the Europeans. Cruising is NOT what they think of when they plan their Holiday. Unless they plan to bombard them with advertising in hopes to turn them into cruisers. Then there is the idea of placing a Vista Class in South America. let's see. NO Self Serve laundry and a ship that tends to draw a much younger crowd doing a much longer exotic itinerary. Makes no sense to me. And I wonder from which market they hope to fill this ship with????

[Jade13]

What is up with HAL. I booked a B2B MR cruise on the Oosterdam for Dec 5, and the 12th 2009. Got a great rate. Any way this past friday, I got a e-mail from my TA, telling me that the cruise had been cancelled. I was offered several options:

.

(1) could rebook another cruise at the PREVAILING rate, and I would also be given a Shipboard Credit of $75.00 pp.

(2) Get my deposit back.

.

Well I checked with HAL to see what else was available in late 2009. and guess what....No Ryndam, No Ooosterdam... In fact after April 2009 I don't see any cruises for the MR listed...What is up with HAL.

.

My TA told me that she had talked to their HAL Rep, and even they were not aware of all of this "ship shuffling". Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

 

The Mariner Mag I received only shows the Oosterdam in Mexico through Feb 2009. It also is still showing the $5.00pp fuel surcharge.

[Jade13]

Well, I for one was hoping someday to do the Sea of Cortez itinerary that the Ryndam has been doing. I don't really care whether it's on the Ryndam or another ship, but I do hope HAL doesn't drop that itinerary altogether. We cruise for scenery and wildlife, and HAL is our cruise line of choice by a long shot, so that one would be a real loss to us if HAL discontinues it.

 

Are you listening, "Seattle"?

 

I am interested in this itineray too because I want to go to Copper Canyon (and still wishing they would do it in a 7 night since it would work better vacation wise).

 

Oh, and if Seattle is listening the Guests with the kids are the ones that have the one week vacations in February and April (and diff times for the college students). If the 10 night is having a problem maybe a lesser expensive 7 night Sunday - Sunday with diverse ports would do better than the same over and over.

[lazey1]

Agree. Have been on a Sea of Cortez 10 day before the Copper Canyon was available and would love to do this excursion on either a 7 day or 10 day cruise. Suggest HAL eliminate La Paz and do an overnight at Cabo.

[RevNeal]

If HAL pulls out of the Mexican Riviera altogether, that leaves Princess, Royal Caribbean, NCL, and Carnival - and maybe the odd Crystal sailing. I notice Celebrity pulled out of the MR a few years ago and has no plans to go back.

 

It will be interesting to see where the Ryndam gets re-deployed to.

 

It may be that, for a while at least, the only time one does the Mexican Rivera on HAL will be on a Trans-canal cruise. <sigh>

 

Oh, well ... we'll see. I will also be curious to see where they redeploy the Ryndam. They won't leave her off the Fall 2009 schedule for long. But, more importantly, where will she be from March 25 - May 8? Are they sending her to the South Pacific for a month, maybe?

[Travelrd]

I was booked on the Oosterdam for the Dec 5 2009 cruise and just found out it was cancelled on Friday. My travel agent said she is going to talk with someone from HAL to see what they might do for my inconvenience. Maybe something, maybe nothing. However, I love the Vista class ship so I'm looking at an Alaska cruise for September 2009 on the Westerdam out of Seattle. I hope the price works out for me because I miss not being able to sail HAL to Mexico.

[sassyredhat]

Another thing they miss out on is that HAL offers no golf excursions.

 

We've had to jump lines twice. Carnival has great golf cruises.

 

When you've been there so many times, it's nice to be able to just go play golf.

 

Pat

[Sailorgirlseattle]

Being that I don't fly, losing any West-Coast-based itineries is a problem for me. Hope they don't decide to leave western Mexico altogether. :mad:

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Being that I don't fly, losing any West-Coast-based itineries is a problem for me. Hope they don't decide to leave western Mexico altogether. :mad:

I know how you feel, while I do fly it is just such a pain to fly to the East Coast with losing 3 hours there is no easy way to get there and fly in the same day without asking for problems. Living in LAs Vegas you would think we would have it easy to fly anywhere, well we do as long as it is also on the West Coast. I have plenty of non-stop choices for Seattle, Vancouver, SFO, L.A. and San Diego. We have just gotten to the point we would rather repeat Alaska and Mexican Riviera twice a year than have to fly to the East Coast.

I think there will continue to be plenty of ships going to the Mexican Riviera as long as you want to cruise on the Big Mega Ships of RCCL and Carnival but HAL and Princess don't want the competition and want to chase the Euro thinking it will be the Fountain of Youth thinking that will give them the economy boost they need.

[Sailorgirlseattle]

Oh Lisa, I hope you're wrong ... but I also know you well enough to know you're probably right on. Sigh.

 

We did just do the Caribbean trip out of Fort Lauderdale, but getting myself to Florida and back was such a major undertaking (mixture of Amtrak and rental cars) that I don't plan to do it again for many many years. I'd like to keep cruising as an option for "getting to the sun" but I may end up just taking land vacations in San Diego instead if the cruise lines stop offering trips that are attractive to me.

 

Sorry you're feeling the same pinch, too.

[cruz chic]

Oh Lisa, I hope you're wrong ... but I also know you well enough to know you're probably right on. Sigh.

 

We did just do the Caribbean trip out of Fort Lauderdale, but getting myself to Florida and back was such a major undertaking (mixture of Amtrak and rental cars) that I don't plan to do it again for many many years. I'd like to keep cruising as an option for "getting to the sun" but I may end up just taking land vacations in San Diego instead if the cruise lines stop offering trips that are attractive to me.

 

Sorry you're feeling the same pinch, too.

Getting to Fort Lauderdale is an ordeal. I'm very dissapoitned that HAL and Princess have taken this approach.

[Travelrd]

Princess is going to be using the Sapphire Princess from Los Angeles through May 2009 for Mexican Riviera cruises. I think they are giving up on San Diego for now.

 

How does RCCL compare to Princess? Is the Mariner a larger ship than the Sapphire Princess? How do they compare in pricing to Princess?

 

I'm really going to miss not being able to fly into San Diego and its only a 10 minute ride from airport to ship.

[cruz chic]

Princess is going to be using the Sapphire Princess from Los Angeles through May 2009 for Mexican Riviera cruises. I think they are giving up on San Diego for now.

 

How does RCCL compare to Princess? Is the Mariner a larger ship than the Sapphire Princess? How do they compare in pricing to Princess?

 

I'm really going to miss not being able to fly into San Diego and its only a 10 minute ride from airport to ship.

 

At least there is an option to do a Princess cruise. Wish it was a 10 day one however.

 

Can't comment on RCCL as I have never been on one of their cruises and don't have much desire to do so.

[Atomica]

Getting to Fort Lauderdale is an ordeal. I'm very dissapoitned that HAL and Princess have taken this approach.

 

I couldn't agree more. It's an ordeal, and an expensive one at that. I can't believe how difficult it is to fly to certain parts of the States - even most flights from here to San Francisco want you to connect in Denver! For a few hundred more $$, I can go to Europe instead of Florida - and I can do it direct.

 

I'd love to do South America on the Oosterdam, but my worry is that HAL's left us West-Coasters who can't take 17 days off at a time or fork over the $$ to fly to Florida with no viable cruise options. In which case, I guess it's off to another line I go... The Mexican Riviera's not my favorite destination, but it sure is great for a nice, hot getaway in the middle of winter, and I'd like to see more of it.

[cruisecrasy]

It may be that, for a while at least, the only time one does the Mexican Rivera on HAL will be on a Trans-canal cruise. <sigh>

 

Oh, well ... we'll see. I will also be curious to see where they redeploy the Ryndam. They won't leave her off the Fall 2009 schedule for long. But, more importantly, where will she be from March 25 - May 8? Are they sending her to the South Pacific for a month, maybe?

 

Has something to do with adding aft cabins..Believe she is due for more retrofitting in early fall/09 also.

 

Not sure she won't be back in Mexico for fall/winter 2009..

 

Have to wait & see.

[RevNeal]

Has something to do with adding aft cabins..Believe she is due for more retrofitting in early fall/09 also.

 

Not sure she won't be back in Mexico for fall/winter 2009..

 

Have to wait & see.

 

The Cruise Calendar does not show her in "construction" status for the month of April 2009 ... or for any period in 2009.

 

 

Of course, they might not have updated the calendar yet. However, according to the above the Veendam will be spending the entire month of April undergoing construction (getting her aft-lift), as will the Oosterdam. The Amsterdam spends part of April and May under construction too.

 

But not the Ryndam.