Still waiting on Southwest

[twobuckbear]

I just hate waiting. I had to wait all this time for Dec. flights to open up now I have to wait some more! Southwest advised me that it will be a random time and they can't say exactly the schedule will be available.

Traveling to Fll from San is not an easy or inexpensive task. I've never flown to the East Coast before. Airlines don't make a cross country flight very easy.

 

Delta lowered their rate from San to Fll by 80.00! But the flight times are restrictive. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.

 

So, I will wait on pins and needles for SW to open Dec. I may find out that the prices were not worth waiting for. I suppose the draw is the no fee for checked luggage.

 

I have never taken just one suitcase for a cruise. I am thinking that it is possible for a 7 day cruise on Celebrity. I am going to try....if I go with Delta.

 

I am finished with my rant.

 

Have a great day all!

 

Judy From Joshua Tree, CA

[greatam]

I just hate waiting. I had to wait all this time for Dec. flights to open up now I have to wait some more! Southwest advised me that it will be a random time and they can't say exactly the schedule will be available.

Traveling to Fll from San is not an easy or inexpensive task. I've never flown to the East Coast before. Airlines don't make a cross country flight very easy.

 

Delta lowered their rate from San to Fll by 80.00! But the flight times are restrictive. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.

 

So, I will wait on pins and needles for SW to open Dec. I may find out that the prices were not worth waiting for. I suppose the draw is the no fee for checked luggage.

 

I have never taken just one suitcase for a cruise. I am thinking that it is possible for a 7 day cruise on Celebrity. I am going to try....if I go with Delta.

 

I am finished with my rant.

 

Have a great day all!

 

Judy From Joshua Tree, CA

 

You didn't post your dates, so specific help cannot be given.

 

And why in the heck are you flying from SAN to FLL???? Did you mean Santa Anna???? Flights the entire month of December out of SNA to PBI or MIA (Palm Beach) for about $300 on AA. There are even a couple of flights out of ONT to MIA that would work.

[n2cruisin2]

Southwest has posted new flight schedule

[hightownCO]

Yep, schedule opened up and it SUCKS pricewise. 1/2 of flights on days I need for lowers fare shows unavailable.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I'm underwhelmed too. I could have gotten cheaper air last Saturday but got greedy thinking SW would be lower. Not a good gambler.

 

Bill

[cherylandtk]

They are open now, and it ain't pretty.....Wanna Get Away fares for popular holiday times are only about $50 less than full fare fully refundable prices, at least on the routes I use.

 

Seems that pricing is up there with the legacy carriers, and $600-$800 RT pp is wayy more than I am ready to pay for air at this point. I gotta do some serious soul-searching about air plus cruise fares this year....

[jeffw47]

Can someone say listen to Greatam. :D

[twobuckbear]

You didn't post your dates, so specific help cannot be given.

 

And why in the heck are you flying from SAN to FLL???? Did you mean Santa Anna???? Flights the entire month of December out of SNA to PBI or MIA (Palm Beach) for about $300 on AA. There are even a couple of flights out of ONT to MIA that would work.

 

Yep, I meant SAN. Sister lives there and she can provide transportation and parking. But I have flown out of SNA before and it is absolutely cheaper at times.

 

SW did not impress. The price was fine but the times suck. I just don't want to spend 8-9 hours traveling SAN to FLL and back.

 

I am going with Delta. Times and prices are more suitable. 280.00 per roundtrip ticket.

 

By the way.....I was just ranting, not really asking for help. But I sure appreciate everyone comments!:p

 

Thanks!

 

Judy

[Globaliser]

Can someone say listen to Greatam. :D

Absolutely right! :D

[greatam]

Absolutely right! :D

 

Thanks to both of you.

 

Again, we see people posting that they WAITED for WN and lost out on better ticket prices (with all the valuable goodies that the legacies give you).

 

 

When will people get it-WN sets prices AFTER they see how full the other airlines are going be on the same routes and generally at higher prices than the CHEAPEST tickets on the legacies (which are sold out by the time WN releases schedules). They are NOT dummies. Why should they sell tickets CHEAPER than other airlines???? They may be a LOW COST AIRLINE (operationally). But as proven today, they are not CHEAPER on many, many routes. And waiting for WN to open schedules may cost you a lot.

[nho9504]

Thanks to both of you.

 

Again, we see people posting that they WAITED for WN and lost out on better ticket prices (with all the valuable goodies that the legacies give you).

 

 

When will people get it-WN sets prices AFTER they see how full the other airlines are going be on the same routes and generally at higher prices than the CHEAPEST tickets on the legacies (which are sold out by the time WN releases schedules). They are NOT dummies. Why should they sell tickets CHEAPER than other airlines???? They may be a LOW COST AIRLINE (operationally). But as proven today, they are not CHEAPER on many, many routes. And waiting for WN to open schedules may cost you a lot.

 

When you were trying so hard to help, none of the WN fans would listen and give it a logical thought.

 

I am so glad to see you have been proven to be right all along.

[jerseygirl3]

When I checked Southwest website this morning, fares weren't yet released. When I checked later in the day, they were. However, as others have mentioned, the fares stink. I'm looking for airfare for a friend for early November from Philadephia to Ft. Myers, and the fare is almost $600 for two people. This is not peak season in Florida, so I was hoping to get them something better.

 

Oh well, it looks like a lot of people may be curtailing their vacation plans.

 

Jo-Ann

[greatam]

When I checked Southwest website this morning, fares weren't yet released. When I checked later in the day, they were. However, as others have mentioned, the fares stink. I'm looking for airfare for a friend for early November from Philadephia to Ft. Myers, and the fare is almost $600 for two people. This is not peak season in Florida, so I was hoping to get them something better.

 

Oh well, it looks like a lot of people may be curtailing their vacation plans.

 

Jo-Ann

 

Other than the week around Thanksgiving, AirTran has fares in the $230-250 price range. In fact, if you fly on Tuesday/Wednesday, the fares are as low as $180 on Delta. Keep looking!!!!

[S.S.Oceanlover]

When you were trying so hard to help, none of the WN fans would listen and give it a logical thought.

 

I am so glad to see you have been proven to be right all along.

 

OK what is a WN fan? Or more to the point what does WN stand for?

 

Bill

[KLLund]

I wonder when AirTran will start covering our area.. I keep reading how great the fares are.

 

I compared Alaska and SWA for our flights for Christmas today .. and Alaska was cheaper .. BUT . . The flight was at o-dark thirty in the AM and when I added the luggage fees ( it's Christmas .. presents have to be checked or not wrapped) .. it was a draw .. and I liked the SWA times better.

 

Then I looked at Thanksgiving .. not so much a luggage problem .. flight is still a horrible time .. but we may just book that one .. when all the plans get in order.

[nho9504]

OK what is a WN fan? Or more to the point what does WN stand for?

 

Bill

 

WN is the code for Southwest airline, such as AA for American, AS for Alaska, and B6 for JetBlue, so on so forth. There is a thread about whether Southwest airline's fares really are cheaper than the legacy airlines. Lots of debates there. Greatam spent lots of time to recommend people to book with any airline when they see a good fare, and dont wait for Southwest airline to publish its schedule, for they would lose out the good fares other airlines offered - as all good fares would be snapped up by people who know better. There are a few posters vehemently insist Southwest is the cheapest and the greatest, at least for their needs. That is fine and dandy, but Greatam made an excellent point about WN's practice on its fare schedule. She just reiterated again a few posts above yours.

 

Now, the long-awaited WN fare schedule finally is released. As you read here, there are quite a few disappointments. I am curious why the WN fans who insist WN is always the cheapest do not come here to post on this thread?

[S.S.Oceanlover]

WN is the code for Southwest airline, such as AA for American, AS for Alaska, and B6 for JetBlue, so on so forth. There is a thread about whether Southwest airline's fares really are cheaper than the legacy airlines. Lots of debates there. Greatam spent lots of time to recommend people to book with any airline when they see a good fare, and dont wait for Southwest airline to publish its schedule, for they would lose out the good fares other airlines offered - as all good fares would be snapped up by people who know better. There are a few posters vehemently insist Southwest is the cheapest and the greatest, at least for their needs. That is fine and dandy, but Greatam made an excellent point about WN's practice on its fare schedule. She just reiterated again a few posts above yours.

 

Now, the long-awaited WN fare schedule finally is released. As you read here, there are quite a few disappointments. I am curious why the WN fans who insist WN is always the cheapest do not come here to post on this thread?

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain all that to me. I never heard of the WN before. Learn something new everyday.:)

 

Bill

[parody]

I am curious why the WN fans who insist WN is always the cheapest do not come here to post on this thread?

 

While there are likely some WN fans who think they are always cheaper, I think more are enamored by the overall "culture" of the organization along with the fact that one can still check 2 bags free, choose where and who they want to sit next to, have the flexibility to modify their flight itinerary at no additional cost (other than the price of the ticket), capitalize on Ding! specials (although they are not as attractive as they once were), and participate in a frequent flyer program that does not make use of blackout periods. More folks fly them domestically than any other US carrier. Of course, new start-ups now know the model and have made improvements with in-flight entertainment systems and will soon emerge with enhanced WIFI technology.

[nho9504]

While there are likely some WN fans who think they are always cheaper, I think more are enamored by the overall "culture" of the organization along with the fact that one can still check 2 bags free, choose where and who they want to sit next to, have the flexibility to modify their flight itinerary at no additional cost (other than the price of the ticket), capitalize on Ding! specials (although they are not as attractive as they once were), and participate in a frequent flyer program that does not make use of blackout periods. More folks fly them domestically than any other US carrier. Of course, new start-ups now know the model and have made improvements with in-flight entertainment systems and will soon emerge with enhanced WIFI technology.

 

There is no black out period for AA or UA programs as far as I know. There are saver awards that use less miles, and there are Anytime awards that use more miles, which means as long as there are seats for sale, you can redeem it. Also WN requires you fly 8 trips before you can get 1 free trip award - if you fly less than 8 trips, you are SOL. The legacy airlines FF miles can be used for many many things, upgrade, free tickets, vacation, hotel and rental car, even the orphan few thousand miles can be used for magazine sub or donate to worthy causes such Red Cross or Make a Wish Foundation.

 

The biggest myth about the legacy FF program is the black out period - that has been eliminated long long ago after the introduction of Saver and Anytime awards.

 

Have you seen the seat map of legacy airlines? After you purchased your tickets, you can go online to choose your seats, you can switch around up to the flight time, of course provided there are empty seats for you to switch to. Therefore I dont see HOW WN would be better than legacy airlines in that you dont have the ability to pre-choose your seats right after you made the reservation? In fact, you can check out the seat map BEFORE you purchase the flight on the legacy airlines. I often do that when I need to make a decision on competing flights which flight to take. Can you know where you sit when you make a reservation with WN? I dont think so. Therefore, how is WN better than legacy airlines in this aspect?

 

The only thing(s) I see WN has advantages over legacy is the no cancellation fee on a cancelled trip, and of course now the still free 2 checked bags.

 

Otherwise, other things you cited, are more myth than truth, re the FF travel black-out period, and the seat selection.

 

More folks fly WN domestically because WN specializes in SHORT-HAUL point to point flights. There are far more people going from point A to point B that is only 1 to 3 hours fly time, then people who travel MidCon or TransCon accross the country. Heck, when you look at the state of California, going Up and Down, there are enough people travel on that N-S route that probably account for a big bulk of traffic on WN, given CA is the most populous state in the country.

[Sparky on the seas]

 

When will people get it-WN sets prices AFTER they see how full the other airlines are going be on the same routes and generally at higher prices than the CHEAPEST tickets on the legacies (which are sold out by the time WN releases schedules).

 

Ok I’m going try a nicer tone this time. I do have strong opinions about this, as do you. If my tone was harsh with you or others on the other thread then I am truly sorry. Just cause I got a keyboard and an internet connection doesn’t mean I can be a jerk.:o

 

To clear some things up: I believe that Southwest may not have the cheapest fares but they also do not have the most expensive either. To quote the Eagles “ you see it your way, I see it mine”:)

 

When you say that Southwest sets their prices after they see how full the flights are on other Airlines, how do you know that? Now I can understand seeing what the prices are and how many seats are for sale then setting prices from there, but for them to do what you are suggesting I think would be illegal.

 

My understanding is that how many seats are sold or for sale at a particular price, and what the lids are for a flight is proprietary data. I might be wrong but I couldn’t find anything on the Internet to confirm it.

Happy flights and cruising!!!

[nho9504]

Ok I’m going try a nicer tone this time. I do have strong opinions about this, as do you. If my tone was harsh with you or others on the other thread then I am truly sorry. Just cause I got a keyboard and an internet connection doesn’t mean I can be a jerk.:o

 

To clear some things up: I believe that Southwest may not have the cheapest fares but they also do not have the most expensive either. To quote the Eagles “ you see it your way, I see it mine”:)

 

When you say that Southwest sets their prices after they see how full the flights are on other Airlines, how do you know that? Now I can understand seeing what the prices are and how many seats are for sale then setting prices from there, but for them to do what you are suggesting I think would be illegal.

 

My understanding is that how many seats are sold or for sale at a particular price, and what the lids are for a flight is proprietary data. I might be wrong but I couldn’t find anything on the Internet to confirm it.

Happy flights and cruising!!!

 

Why you think it is illegal? WN does not collude with any other airline to set its prices, it sets its prices AFTER it evaluate the available capacity at what prices out there in the market place. Why would this be illegal? It is the business tactics they use, and only because they have created a myth for their brand and make many consumers believe theirs would be the cheapest and worth waiting for. Of course now it proves that is nothing but a perception and a myth.

 

Gp to any of the travel website, Kyak, Travelocity, Expedia you name it, plug in a travel date and see what fares you pull up from various airlines that fly that route - it is PUBLIC knowledge. Imagine you have computer programs to do that and alert you ? Hey, even us everyday folks can have such free monitoring service(s) and the links are posted in the sticky at the top of this forum! What makes you think this is propritary data?

 

You can also pay a few bucks for a trial service on Expertflyer which would give you REAL time information on exactly how many seats are available in each fare bucket (under each fare code) on a particular flight, so anyone can know how many seats are available at each fare code which is no secret, what code is the cheapest and what code is the most expensive and any and all codes in between. That is whay they are called PUBLISHED Fares.

 

If you are so curious, take the $8 or $10 trial subscription for one month on Expertflyer and see for yourself the availability of seats under each fare code on each mainline flight you choose to see. There are legends to understand but not difficult to understand, such as F means First class, C means business class, Y means FULL fare Coach, and then all the other fare codes in alphas. None of such info is proprietary.

[nho9504]

Just to show how such is NOT any proprietary information when anyone can subscribe to such service.

 

This is directly lifted from Expertflyer's guide on how to interpret the display of a particular flight's booking information:

 

The Fare Buckets

Ever wonder why you paid one price for your seat on a flight and the person next to you paid something very

different? The answer is fare buckets. On a flight with three different classes of service (First, Business and

Economy) there may actually be as many as 20 different fares available at any one time. Airlines allow you book

these fares up to 11 months in advance. To make things more complicated, these fares will constantly change at

any time during the 11 months leading up to the flight. Airlines have revenue management computers and

personnel whose job it is to constantly adjust the availability of certain fares and the cost of the actual fare for each

and every flight they offer. They use past experience for the same flight, competitive fare information, seasonality of

the flight and other special events and promotional considerations to set the fares.

On ExpertFlyer, these fare buckets appear in the Flight Availability section. Let’s look at the fare buckets for a

flight from JFK to LAX on American Airlines (AA):

0 Connections

AA 1 0 JFK

01/01/06 09:00AM

LAX

01/01/06 12:10PM

762 B P7 A2 J7 D7 I6 Y7 B7 H7 K7 M7 L7 W7 V7 G0 S0 N0 Q0 O0AA flight 1 departs JFK at 9:00am and arrives at LAX at 12:10pm local time. The “0” after the flight number means it

is a non-stop flight. The “762” is the type of aircraft. Clicking on the aircraft type on the actual response screen will

give you a pop-up show the actual name of the aircraft type. In this example, AA1 on this day is a Boeing 767-200.

The “B” next to it, indicates that breakfast is served on this flight. Clicking on the meal letter will give you pop-up that

describes the meal codes. Please note, on many flights the level of meal service is not consistent in each class of

service.

Let’s look at the entries on the right side. These are the fare buckets. They are designated by a letter that

designates the booking class and a number that designates the minimum number of tickets that can be purchased in

this booking class. Some of these booking classes are for First class, some for Business and some for Economy.Let’s look at them in more detai

 

com | Understanding How to Use ExpertFlyer to Your Advantage | Page 3

P7 and A2 are the booking classes for First class on this particular flight. Keep in mind that the letters used for a

particular class of service will vary by airline. In this case, “P” is the designation for a full-fare “Premium” class ticket.

The “A” is the designation for the same seat but at a discounted price. Notice the numbers next to each. The “7” in

P7 means there at least 7 seats that can be sold at this price. In fact, there are probably more. Notice how all the

booking classes have a maximum number of 7. Different airlines will show different maximum numbers. Some use

9 and some use 4. In this case, it’s 7. Looking at the “A” booking class you see there are only 2 available for sale at

a discounted price. So, why not buy the discounted seat instead of the full-fare “P” seat? Well, the “A” discounted

seats usually come with purchase or travel restrictions. Maybe it can only be purchased in conjunction with a larger

round-the-world ticket.J7, D7 and I7 are the booking classes for seat in the Business class section of the aircraft. “J” is full-fare price for

Business class and “D” and “I” are discounted fares each with their own rules and restrictions.

In Economy we see many more fares. “Y” is the full-fare price for Economy and the other 12 fare classes represent

discount Economy fares all with their own sets of rules and restrictions. In general, the fare cost goes the most

expensive to cheapest as you move through the buckets from left to right.

The actual letter used for a booking class will vary from airline to airline. “D” in one airline may be a Business class

code, but in a different airline it may be an Economy code. ExpertFlyer provides a pop-up for all codes on each

airline. It is this booking class code that is printed on your boarding pass under Class.

So, how many seats are actually available for sale on this flight? That’s hard to tell. In Business, this flight has 30

seats. Yet we see from the buckets (J7, D7 and I7) that the total is only 21. Remember, the number next to each

booking class letter is the minimum number of seats available at this fare price. You may buy four J-fare tickets

tomorrow and that fare class may still read “J7”. Also, if you add up all the numbers next to the letters, that is not the

total number of seats left on the flight for sale. It may be more or less. The number can also be used as an indicator

of how many seats are left for sale in that booking class.

One final note about fare buckets. Some deep discount fare buckets are only available between a specific pair of

cities even if a connection is used. So, for a trip between JFK and LAS you may see a low-cost fare by using a

connection through DFW or SLC. But if you look at each segment individually you may not see the same deep

discounted fare buckets on each individual segment. This is because the airline is not offering a deep discounted

fare between JFK and SLC or between SLC and LAS. It’s only available when you book JFK-LAS connecting thru SLC.

 

Hope this help you to understand why anyone can know what seats at what fare codes are still available with each flight.[/color]

[KLLund]

 

Now, the long-awaited WN fare schedule finally is released. As you read here, there are quite a few disappointments. I am curious why the WN fans who insist WN is always the cheapest do not come here to post on this thread?

 

I did .. scroll up .. and I only said that it is the cheapest in my particular area .. that seems to be changing .. however I was really waiting for this particular schedule to use my RR tickets and hoping that Xmas and Thanksgiving wouldn't be totally out of hand .. they aren't but If I can save some dollars at Thanksgiving on Alaska I may do that.

[FlyerTalker]

One point on the WN Rapid Rewards program: Though there are no blackout periods, there are capacity controls on award seats. The days of "if a seat is for sale, it's yours" is gone. You can get a seat, but at double the redemption. Also, WN FF credits have a more severe expiration rate than any other program in North America.

 

As for the WN myth....maybe, just maybe, someone will learn from this most recent "opening".

[Travel Angel]

I am curious why the WN fans who insist WN is always the cheapest do not come here to post on this thread?

 

Here I am :D

 

But never said WN was the cheapest... but often work out for what I am looking for in flight schedules and sometimes pricing.......