Is there a Celebrity "Champions "program too?

[Schplinky]

This thread seems to have evolved into a debate about the merits of being too negative or positive. While I will affirm anyone's right to be as negative as they need to be to get through the day, there are some posters on all the boards of lines we've sailed (RCL, X, NCL, HAL) who say nothing but bad things about their line of choice and yet they never leave that line and sail elsewhere. Again, they have every right to do this but when they're clearly miserable about the line, wwhy would they keep paying to sail.

 

Sorry if this is off topic.

[excitedofharpenden]

This thread seems to have evolved into a debate about the merits of being too negative or positive. While I will affirm anyone's right to be as negative as they need to be to get through the day, there are some posters on all the boards of lines we've sailed (RCL, X, NCL, HAL) who say nothing but bad things about their line of choice and yet they never leave that line and sail elsewhere. Again, they have every right to do this but when they're clearly miserable about the line, wwhy would they keep paying to sail.

 

Sorry if this is off topic.

Lee, this thread and the one on the RCCL board seems to have gone in all directions and has ended up in a place I don't want to be.

 

There are a lot of very useful posts on these boards and many useful posters. It's enlightening reading ALL reviews and stories of ships I'm going to be sailing on, good or bad. IMHO this has been blown out of all proportions by whoever started it. Who did start it? I've lost the plot with the whole thing. I'll continue to read and enjoy this site and sort the wheat from the chaff as I always have.

 

Phil

[Schplinky]

You set a good example. I'm going to do that to.

[woodofpine]

This thread seems to have evolved into a debate about the merits of being too negative or positive. While I will affirm anyone's right to be as negative as they need to be to get through the day, there are some posters on all the boards of lines we've sailed (RCL, X, NCL, HAL) who say nothing but bad things about their line of choice and yet they never leave that line and sail elsewhere. Again, they have every right to do this but when they're clearly miserable about the line, wwhy would they keep paying to sail.

 

Sorry if this is off topic.

 

This thread has a VERY easy topic to summarize and IMHO it has stayed close to it (and NO is it NOT about excess positivism or negativism).

 

It IS about the integrity and neutrality of poster opinions, and cruiseline (RCI specifically) initiatives to co-opt and sway posters.

 

If that is too HOT a topic for RCs to handle, turn the channel; but don't denounce the thread! This particular thread has been pretty well reasoned and civil.

 

Some threads are about particular ships, or particular cruises, itineraries etc. Those threads are largely fact and opinion. This thread is about opinions... How they're formed, shaped, and expressed. And it is about surrepticious marketing efforts of RCI to promote and influence posts and posters.

 

That is certainly as legitimate a topic as waffles or changing menues!:rolleyes:

[Schplinky]

 

If that is too HOT a topic for RCs to handle, turn the channel

 

 

 

Sorry, didn't realize the boards had appointed new moderators. It is interesting, though, that your criticism is about a group of people who are claimed to shout down any disagreement and that's all you have done here.

 

The thread has had lots of posts on various topics but I'll defer to you since your opinion is certainly stronger. Nice to see you're remaining civil in all this.

[ghstudio]

Put me in woodofpine's camp.

 

There is great public furor about doctors who promote or use drugs/medical devices and are paid by the drug companies. Of course the doctors claim that they are still unbaised and they use the products because they work....etc. etc. So you go to a doctor, he recommends a certain knee replacement, uses it on you and then you find out he's been paid by the drug company to do research on their knee replacements. You wonder....did I really get the right knee replacement....or did he use it because he was influenced.

 

Turn the page...now we're back here....and we have many unbiased reviewers connected to the drug(sorry), the cruise companies. The doctors will swear they are unbiased...and they really think they are. Ditto with the RC's here.

 

Other doctors go to medical seminars around the world with lavish non-seminar activities at very low/no cost. But they remain completely unbiased....sure they do.

 

Schpinky....why don't you drop out of the RC program....especially since you claim you get nothing out of it. I'd bet you don't....be it for ego, stature, a contact name or some benefits you haven't quite explained. Until you do, you're reviews/comments/opinions are suspect, irrespective of your claim to impartiality....just as the medical articles by the doctors working with drug companies.

 

RC's.....Tell us why you are in the RCL program. I know a number of doctors who said no to trips/study funding so they could be unbiased and honest and pick the best products. How about you other RC folks......why not drop out of the program?

[Schplinky]

I was chosen as an RC BECAUSE I am an enthusiastic supporter of RC (as I am now of X, and NCL). It did not become a supporter because I was chosen as an RC. My feelings about the brand have not changed, which would require me to re-evaluate my stance more than the feelings of other posters.

 

I am also aware of the lack of truthfulness in the reporting of the program and I can assure you I am not compensated for my participation. In fact, the word "participation" even overshoots my feeling about the "program" since I think, in total, I have received about 4 or 5 emails from RCL in relation to the program in two years. These have mostly been in the form of surveys which solicited my opinions. Why don't I drop out? Why would I? I like giving my opinion and having it have an effect on a product I like.

 

The people who enjoy my reviews will continue to enjoy them because they know me (in a virtual way) and they have already drawn their own conclusions over whether my experience will inform theirs. If folks want to discount my reviews because of the RC program, I'm very happy for them to do so, as it is their right.

 

If this were truly some sort of stealthy program, as some seem readily willing to believe, I would have likely been instructed to get a new screen name and start posting under it. I certainly would not admit to being an RC online and I would not feel the need to defend myself (since you wouldn't know I was one).

 

Since I was named an RC, I have been on eight cruises, five of them on RCL. Anyone who thinks they were free should be required to pay my American Express Bill.

 

The Celebrity board was a nice respite from the RCL board, at least as concerns this topic. There, if you responded to the untrue posts, you were defensive; if you didn't, you were admitting by default that you had committed some moral sin. For my part, I'm going to simply stop posting on the topic altogether and I'm also going to try to stop reading these threads, too. It's difficult to have people question your integrity with supposedly clever little aside that you'll later be accused of being sensitive about if you respond to them ("ego, stature, a contact name or some benefits you haven't quite explained") and in general they seem posted not by people who want to have a discussion but by those who would rather win an argument. So, let me finish with this:

 

You win.

[bobbyleduck]

Some of you, and again you know who you are, took the opportunity to attack the source of the article that brought this all to light, so I want everyone to fully understand the difference between a "Cheerleader," a "company shill," a "Royal Champion," or a "Travel Agent," and of course a credentialed member of the press who is also acting as a consumer advocate.

 

The former group of people don't put their real name, occupation and/or credentials on their posts, and may actually have a vested interest in influencing your decision, not to mention potential conflicts of interest, while the latter, Anita Dunham-Potter who writes for MSNBC, puts her name and reputation on the line every time she puts her investigations into print, and would have to find some other source of income if there weren't enough people who find her perspective worthwhile.

 

One group relies upon deception (even if their words are written with objectivity and honesty) and the only source each one needs to quote is, of course him or her self. The other, again, a member of the press and an investigative journalist, quotes actual sources who are not herself, does interviews, and seeks comment from those who are being investigated.

 

By the way, according to her bio on MSNBC, "Anita Dunham-Potter is a Pittsburgh-based travel journalist specializing in cruise travel.

 

Anita's columns have appeared in major newspapers and many Internet outlets, and she is a contributor to Fodor's "Complete Guide to Caribbean Cruises 2006."

 

The above information should be enough to get her to the level of expert, but let's read further: "She has appeared on CBS' The Early Show as well as online chats with USA TODAY and MSNBC. In addition, she is widely quoted in leading national publications.

Anita's columns and articles have appeared in print in Boston Globe, Dallas Morning News, Aviation Lifestyles, and USAir Magazine...Currently, she is the cruise columnist for Tripso.com whose content is available on MSNBC.

Anita Dunham-Potter is a member of the Society of American Travel Writers (SATW) and Pennwriters."

Agree with her, or find fault with her reporting, if you must, but please don't disrespect her because she actually puts it on the line as a professional writer.

Happy cruising to all!

Bob

[Sky Sweet]

I was chosen as an RC BECAUSE I am an enthusiastic supporter of RC (as I am now of X, and NCL). It did not become a supporter because I was chosen as an RC. My feelings about the brand have not changed, which would require me to re-evaluate my stance more than the feelings of other posters.

 

I am also aware of the lack of truthfulness in the reporting of the program and I can assure you I am not compensated for my participation. In fact, the word "participation" even overshoots my feeling about the "program" since I think, in total, I have received about 4 or 5 emails from RCL in relation to the program in two years. These have mostly been in the form of surveys which solicited my opinions. Why don't I drop out? Why would I? I like giving my opinion and having it have an effect on a product I like.

 

The people who enjoy my reviews will continue to enjoy them because they know me (in a virtual way) and they have already drawn their own conclusions over whether my experience will inform theirs. If folks want to discount my reviews because of the RC program, I'm very happy for them to do so, as it is their right.

 

If this were truly some sort of stealthy program, as some seem readily willing to believe, I would have likely been instructed to get a new screen name and start posting under it. I certainly would not admit to being an RC online and I would not feel the need to defend myself (since you wouldn't know I was one).

 

Since I was named an RC, I have been on eight cruises, five of them on RCL. Anyone who thinks they were free should be required to pay my American Express Bill.

 

The Celebrity board was a nice respite from the RCL board, at least as concerns this topic. There, if you responded to the untrue posts, you were defensive; if you didn't, you were admitting by default that you had committed some moral sin. For my part, I'm going to simply stop posting on the topic altogether and I'm also going to try to stop reading these threads, too. It's difficult to have people question your integrity with supposedly clever little aside that you'll later be accused of being sensitive about if you respond to them ("ego, stature, a contact name or some benefits you haven't quite explained") and in general they seem posted not by people who want to have a discussion but by those who would rather win an argument. So, let me finish with this:

 

You win.

 

Just out of curiosity - have you ever received a free upgrade since you became part of this program?

[ocngypz]

I find the whole ballyhoo quite interesting for several reasons.

 

1. I wonder how much time RCL employees spent matching screennames on the various sites to RCL logins, bookings, etc.

 

2. Was any personal information given to RCL by the various websites?

 

3. Opinions are like noses, everyone has them.

 

4. Facts and opinions are not one in the same.

 

Who else is watching you besides the cruiselines????????????????

[Conanc]

The posts on this thread have become utterly ridiculous and some posters should be ashamed of themselves for attacks on people like Schplinky (Lee and Mike) for posting and sharing their unbiased opinions on their cruising experience. Lee has always been a supporter of Royal Caribbean and offered lots of valuable information to all of us here on the boards. That is the REASON he was chosen. He was not chosen and then directed to be a supporter of Royal Caribbean. Sheesh. Be happy for someone else's good fortune instead of being bitter and negative individuals. Life is too short.

 

We are all very fortunate to be cruising at all in this economy. There are many people who have lost their jobs and are struggling to put food on the table. We are also fortunate to have computers and internet access to be able to share information with each other. I will continue to use these boards to gain and share information and to chat with cruise friends. I for one am thankful for the informative and helpful reviews and posts by Lee and Mike and will continue to seek them out. From this point forward, I am done with threads like these. I suggest to all who feel the same way that we just stop posting so the naysayers are left to themselves and this thread can die the death it deserves.

 

Hope everyone has a wonderful day.

[Sky Sweet]

I personally think that the Royal Champion program is a brilliant marketing strategy for the cruise line because it is a very inexpensive way for them to promote their product.

[bobbyleduck]

The posts on this thread have become utterly ridiculous and some posters should be ashamed of themselves for attacks on people like Schplinky (Lee and Mike) for posting and sharing their unbiased opinions on their cruising experience. Lee has always been a supporter of Royal Caribbean and offered lots of valuable information to all of us here on the boards. That is the REASON he was chosen. He was not chosen and then directed to be a supporter of Royal Caribbean. Sheesh. Be happy for someone else's good fortune instead of being bitter and negative individuals. Life is too short.

 

We are all very fortunate to be cruising at all in this economy. There are many people who have lost their jobs and are struggling to put food on the table. We are also fortunate to have computers and internet access to be able to share information with each other. I will continue to use these boards to gain and share information and to chat with cruise friends. I for one am thankful for the informative and helpful reviews and posts by Lee and Mike and will continue to seek them out. From this point forward, I am done with threads like these. I suggest to all who feel the same way that we just stop posting so the naysayers are left to themselves and this thread can die the death it deserves.

 

Hope everyone has a wonderful day.

 

I’m sorry, but what part of this post number 34, from you know who, do you consider unbiased opinion of his cruising experience:

"Originally Posted by bobbyleduck

That article is important, because many people are unaware of the prejudices, and purchased opinions of "MANY" of the posters on these boards. By the way - Royal Champions - refers to the entire cruiseline, after all the company is Royal Caribbean Cruise Line, and that includes Celebrity.

 

Actually, it doesn't. Royal Champions were chosen from the RCL area of the Cruise Critic boards and from other travel fora like tripadvisor (before that company bought this site) and the rec.travel newsgroups. Most Royal Champions have never sailed Celebrity although some, like myself, have.

Originally Posted by bobbyleduck

When I've posted something negative, and I've been flamed, I never thought it was a conspiracy, but now I and everyone else knows better.

I think attributing every disagreement anyone has ever had with you to this is a bit of a reach but that's your own conclusion to draw. Still, presuming there must be a conspiracy in place in order for anyone to disagree with you seems a bit self-absorbed.

Originally Posted by bobbyleduck

... now I and the rest of us know that there are actually people out there in message-board land who are paid to attack those of us who might not spout the company line.

The RCs are not paid either. This has been debated to death on the RCL board and those who choose not to believe this cannot be dissuaded. Some of the RCs were offered a two night pre-inaugural about two years ago (just as many elite Captain Club, travel agents, etc. were shown elements of Solstice before she sailed) but many of the Champions have been offered nothing but the title of Champion and the ensuing abuse on the RCL boards, and now this one. RCs are not given a company line to spout and many are openly critical of the policies of RCL. Notably, one of the RCs led the stampede to the Florida Attorney General's office to have fuel surcharges removed from the bills of guests who booked before they were instituted. Hardly sounds like a well-paid company parrot to me.

Originally Posted by bobbyleduck

It would be nice if the same thing applied to message boards. It's important to understand the truth, because only then can the truth set you free.

Many of the RCs put it in their signatures, only to be subjected to the abuse of other RCL posters who were upset or jealous. We were told that we were flaunting our "status." I recently removed mine to avoid the impression that I was rubbing "it" in people's faces but for you, I will put it back.

 

I find it offensive that you accuse fellow posters without asking questions and that you presume to know their intentions and motivations. I am in the middle of reviewing our recent Solstice cruise and have been posting it in installments. If you would care to read it and tell me where I am blindly spouting RCI propaganda, I would love to recant and make a very public apology to you. If you don't find this bias, I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

 

If you cannot find it within yourself to do this and would rather just make presumptions, please add me to your ignore list because I plan to continue to post candidly and frequently. All of this is just a bunch of hooey."

OR THIS BIT OF SARCASM FROM POST NUMBER 105:

 

"Sorry, didn't realize the boards had appointed new moderators. It is interesting, though, that your criticism is about a group of people who are claimed to shout down any disagreement and that's all you have done here.

 

The thread has had lots of posts on various topics but I'll defer to you since your opinion is certainly stronger. Nice to see you're remaining civil in all this."

OR THIS RECENT ATTEMPT TO END THE DISCUSSION ON HIS TERMS IN POST 107:

 

"For my part, I'm going to simply stop posting on the topic altogether and I'm also going to try to stop reading these threads, too. It's difficult to have people question your integrity with supposedly clever little aside that you'll later be accused of being sensitive about if you respond to them ("ego, stature, a contact name or some benefits you haven't quite explained") and in general they seem posted not by people who want to have a discussion but by those who would rather win an argument. So, let me finish with this:

 

You win."

And, finally there is your post number 113, above, attempting to kill a thread that you don’t like, instead of just leaving it alone and letting those who are interested in the original subject enjoy their discussion. By the way, the original discussion if you’ve forgotten was about a story that suggested, in part, that "Cheerleaders," "Travel Agents," and "Royal Champions" might have a vested interest in attacking those who disagree with them. Nothing I’ve read from such people leads me to believe otherwise.

Happy cruising to all!

Bob

 

P.S. Is it a clever marketing ploy, or manipulation? How many of us actually appreciate viral marketing, or would we appreciate a bigger effort to actually improve the cruising experience instead of using others to try and make us think cruising is every bit as good as it ever was. As much as I enjoy cruising, it is not as good a product as it was when I first cruised, and I don't need a bunch of "cheerleaders," "travel agents," and "Royal Champions" to tell me otherwise, or to put down my biased (based upon my own personal experience) opinion.

[Schplinky]

Just out of curiosity - have you ever received a free upgrade since you became part of this program?

 

 

I get auto-notifications when a thread I've subscribed to gets another hit so I was just coming on to unsubscribe but thought I would answer your question. In 15 cruises, I've never had an upgrade or eaten with the Captain.

[Sky Sweet]

There is an article in USA today titled....

"Is Royal Caribbean manipulating message boards at cruise websites?"

 

Here are a few quotes from that article...

 

"Can you trust what you read about Royal Caribbean at online message boards? That's the question some vacationers are asking this week in the wake of stories suggesting the cruise operator has been manipulating online discussions for more than a year."

 

 

"The key to success in viral marketing is to subtly influence the influencers without them overtly realizing they are being influenced," Royal Caribbean's manager for loyalty marketing, Rachel Hannock, told the audience, according to a blog on loyalty marketing written by the Customer Insight Group."

 

 

"online posts from Royal Champions "are carefully monitored during events and on a regular basis to ensure that posts remain positive and frequent."

 

 

"Hayden says the Royal Champions, of which there currently are about 75, were chosen because they were highly active posters at Cruise Critic and a few other sites and passionate about cruising. So far they have been invited on two short free cruises, and clearly the line expected that they would post about the experiences at Cruise Critic and elsewhere. But Hayden stresses they were free to write whatever they felt about the ships, good or bad. No Royal Champion has been asked to leave the program because he or she was too negative in posts, he adds."

 

 

"USA TODAY has asked Cruise Critic to clarify what it has known about the Royal Champions program over the past year. In an initial email to USA TODAY, Cruise Critic publisher Kathleen Tucker said the site wasn't involved in helping Royal Caribbean develop the program."

[usha]

You gotta wonder how long Rachel Hannock has 'til she gets her pink slip.:cool:

[chief joe]

Sky Sweet, regardless of the RC brohaha, you should always be skeptical of every post on the internet when you have anonymous posters. You don't know the motivation of other members. Therefore you have to use your own judgement, you can not just believe everything you read. That was the way it was before this and that is the way it will be after this.

 

Some posters, obviously, are passionate about cruising and you can tell the ones that consistently provide good information, and you can tell the ones that no matter what happens that they are going to find something to complain about. In other words over time you learn the bias that people have both good and bad. There are many people here at CC that are tremendous resources in the Royal Caribbean forum here, some of those people were picked for exactly that reason. For the posts that they had made in the past. They were not paid to post positive things, they mostly did post positive things. I don't know all of the RCs, but of the many that I know I find them to be the best resources in the forum for anyone wanting to find out about RCI. It is a shame that they now feel like people think that they are paid shills. They are not. This witch hunt is driving good information from the boards, and the replacement for this information is not as good. So, we all lose.

 

jc

 

This post best answers the idiocy on this thread. It all goes to you pay your money and take your chances. Ships and crews break down and you have to roll with what happens. You have to take what is said on these post with a grain of salt both good and bad you soon learn who to trust and the ones to ignore. As the comedian on the tv says you just can't fix stupid.

[woodofpine]

I find the whole ballyhoo quite interesting for several reasons.

 

1. I wonder how much time RCL employees spent matching screennames on the various sites to RCL logins, bookings, etc.

 

2. Was any personal information given to RCL by the various websites?

 

3. Opinions are like noses, everyone has them.

 

4. Facts and opinions are not one in the same.

 

Who else is watching you besides the cruiselines????????????????

 

 

ocngypz - you're always good for a worthy observation or two! #1 points to the level of human resource investment RCI put into the program. ;)

 

bobbyleduck - you'd make a good prosecutor! :D

 

skysweet - I agree with you, it is a 'brilliant' (well - at least surreptitious, effective and inexpensive) marketing program - unfortunately, presently coming at the expense of RC's blood pressure etc. Sometimes though you just have to apply the ole 'smell test' and it fails in that category - IMHO. In that way, its decent posters like schplincky that get 'tainted'.

 

schplincky - you need to relax, lighten up... RC's appear to have taken a beating over on the (closed) RCL thread. Just remember - as ocngypz points out - RCI has a fair amount of man power, time, money, and planning invested in this little program. RCI's both riding your coat tails and taking you for a ride. That's what patronage is about. Protest all you want, but CC posters disturbed that RCI would attempt to create a patronage system among CC posters aren't crazy or mean spirited. In fact, they are a bit angry (for you) in that they see something you don't; that one of the 'expenses' of the RC program is your journalistic credibility (real or perceived).

 

One thing I'm pretty confident of, RCI hoped that the RC program would remain unpublicized on CC... I'm sure there are memos in production presently.;)

[bobbyleduck]

bobbyleduck - you'd make a good prosecutor! :D

 

Thank you for the kind(?) word, although, I would prefer journalist, which I am. You'd never know it, would you?

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob

[ottawapuppy]

 

One thing I'm pretty confident of, RCI hoped that the RC program would remain unpublicized on CC...

 

Most of the original Royal Champions have mentioned that they were such with entries in their signatures for almost two years now. They have self-identified for years. Their opinions were valued for years until this tempest in a teapot exploded.

 

Mike

[woodofpine]

Why wouldn't it surprise me to have escalated provokations entered... until surprise (not) the thread is closed... What a 'coincidental' convergence of interests that would serve. ;):eek:;)

[ottawapuppy]

From what I am reading here, some people think the integrity of these boards has been compromised. Here's an easy solution: walk away. There are other cruising-related discussion boards, which in your opinion, haven't been soiled. Go there.

Quick, quick...like a bunny......

 

Problem solved! Now we can all get on with our lives.

 

Mike

[ghstudio]

I guess RCL has now openly admitted that the program is to influence posters....that they have offered perks.....pretty much they have confirmed the whole thing as a marketing campaign.

 

Schpinky...I suggest you read the USA Today article and see the quotes by RCL top management. You really need to read that article and then think about all your posts here claiming it's not true.

 

I suspect the program will end very shortly and there may even be some changes at RCL. This is not the type of publicity RCL wants or needs. It's almost hard to believe those folks gave those quotes....what were they thinking???

[eileen & jay]

 

One thing I'm pretty confident of, RCI hoped that the RC program would remain unpublicized on CC... I'm sure there are memos in production presently.;)

 

You bet!!! IMHO, one word states it all...ego! LOL:D

[bobbyleduck]

I see that some of you still don't get it. Many of us find the idea of "Viral Marketing" to be disgusting, whether you're a paid employee masquerading as an ordinary poster, or some other sort of shill for the company. Now, if you are none of those things, whether you're a "Travel Agent," a "Cheerleader," or a "Royal Champion," you have no reason to get your knickers in a knot about this thread. If, however, you take turns (and you and I know who you are) taking pot shots at me because I've taken a stand against that sort of thing, and not against a particular poster, then your suggestion is that you're with the people who "flame" anyone who doesn't toe the company line.

 

That's how I see it, and if you are not a part of that group, and feel wrongly included by me, which I never intended, then I am forever sorry. If, on the other hand you stand for attacking me (which is not the same as just disagreeing with my position) when I post something, then you may want to find some other activity because I will no longer back down from bullies.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob