OPEN LETTER to Mr Stein Kruse, CEO, HAL concerning recent changes in policies

[world~citizen]

Are you aware that on most cruise lines, approximately 80% of the crew smokes?

 

I don't know what the percentage is, but they do not smoke in the public areas.

 

Smooth sailing to you...

[wilsonqbc]

Oh I very very seldom smoke a cigar and do understand that they do

make a lot of fog, and smell gets into the fabrics and all,

as is now there were still enough places to smoke, but an out right total ban

could not be a great idea, except for the non smokers.

I smoke, but not in the room, on the balcony or in the bars that its allowed or out on the aft.

[DizzyDallasDi]

I don't know what the percentage is, but they do not smoke in the public areas.

 

I've enjoyed many a smoke with several different crew members and am quite certain we were in a public area.

[marle7]

Unbelievable! HAL still has one of the most permissive smoking policies of any cruise line, and some smokers are ready to stop cruising? Are we to believe that, given the choice, some would actually pick SMOKING over cruising? ...Nuts, absolutely nuts!:eek:

 

 

I'm sorry you're having trouble understanding this. I've just booked Sandals Royal Bahamian next year for my 50th birthday. We've booked the Windsor Suite for two weeks. Cost is $14,000 no tipping allowed and my booze is included. I can smoke at the very least on my balcony and even in some of the restaurants.

 

On our upcoming Westerdam cruise, the PH is $25,000 more or less for the two weeks, I am going to tip, and my onboard tab is usually $6,000 $8,000.

 

Since we live in a democracy, I can vote where to spend my discretional vacation dollars. Why wouldn't I?

I don't know what the percentage is, but they do not smoke in the public areas.

 

Smooth sailing to you...

 

 

OF course not. I'm just saying that I don't think that the defence of the health of a crew that smokes anyway is a particularly good defence.

[AirGorilla]

Perhaps some few would have HAL still provide spittoons in their bars. That would make about as much sense as continuing to permit smoking, wouldn't it? Is there any difference?

 

I have no problems with spittoons in the bars. I DO have MAJOR problems with people MISSING the spittoons. Y'all stand close now!!

 

AG

[weelv2cruise]

Exactly. I suspect the portion of the 80% who have been staying away from the fog banks in the casino and the Oceans Bar will now more than make up for the perceived lost smoker revenue.

 

Next target: cabins & verandas

 

Yes a preceived 80%. Just check out the casinos on the ships such as Regents, Oceania, etc. who have gone to non-smoking. They have far less cruisers in the casino propping up the revenue then those which allow smoking. And isn't it a fact non-smokers have a tendency not to drink? And I can't tell you how many folks I've meet in the casino who consider themselves non-smokers that bum cigarettes as they gamble.

 

Personally, we won't sail on a cruise line that does not respect all of it's passengers. It's also very reflective of individuals who lack tolerance for others. In this crazy world, you just don't know what a fanatic will do now a days.

[serendipity1499]

Brian, I think it's the other way around. I think the non-smokers were the ones who ended up getting an extra week's pay.

 

You are correct..

The smokers rarely got the weeks pay...However in those days, International Airline salaries were very low, so the non-smokers probably could not afford a cruise, even with a weeks salary...However they could have used it on their European Vacations, as they also got free airline passes..

Betty

[Taxguy77]

Guess if I'm looking for self righteous , intolerant folks I need look no further...

 

I've said this before on other smoking threads and will say it once more.. you start treating the twinkie consumers of the world the way you do smokers and the war will be on.

 

How many of you self righteous "don't allow them to even smoke in their stateroom" folks are lugging around 50 lbs extra like I am. Or drink more than you should. We all pick our poisons.

 

I agree with your post except for the 'stateroom' part. Smoke will get into the adjoining rooms, period. The balcony is worse if the ship is underway.

I believe the European Union outlaws smoking in the rooms on rivercruises and has strong fines for doing so. The fire hazard is probably the reason. And that is on narrow rivers, try a fire in stateroom in the middle of the Atlantic.:eek:

[shotei]

As it is right now, on HAL, I would never pay up for a balcony room. I've heard too many stories about non-smokers not able to enjoy their balconies because of the smoke from their next door neighbors.

 

If HAL were to ban balcony smoking, they would get a revenue boost from me upgrading to a balcony room when I cruise.

 

Marc

[mudscraper]

I have no problems with spittoons in the bars. I DO have MAJOR problems with people MISSING the spittoons. Y'all stand close now!!

 

AG

Thats why I bring a "Spittin Jar" to the lounges on board. It`s a old Mason Jar that grandmaw used for chewin. She`s gone now. I got it in the will.

 

 

Rich

[Sleepladypalmdesert]

.

 

Estimates can be high . . . the actual cost is about $2.00 (including the extra labor of the staff).

 

2.00....really? I call BS.

[usha]

As it is right now, on HAL, I would never pay up for a balcony room. I've heard too many stories about non-smokers not able to enjoy their balconies because of the smoke from their next door neighbors.

 

If HAL were to ban balcony smoking, they would get a revenue boost from me upgrading to a balcony room when I cruise.

 

Marc

Booking a balcony cabin on HAL is a total crapshoot. You're at the mercy of pax on balconies all around you. And all it takes is one yahoo with a cigar to stink up every balcony on the whole side of the ship.:(

[Taxguy77]

 

PERFECT

I'm green with envy at your picture collection and ability to pick the best one each time.

[pipedreams62]

Booking a balcony cabin on HAL is a total crapshoot. You're at the mercy of pax on balconies all around you. And all it takes is one yahoo with a cigar to stink up every balcony on the whole side of the ship.:(

 

 

 

[lettienets]

I guess it will depend on whether your on board tab is as high as mine. If so, net net, and HAL neither wins nor loses. If it's not, and there happen to be several large spenders like us, then HAL loses in the long run.

I personally don't care. HAL can do whatever it likes, it's their ball. I just don't have to play. Like Jim, I choose to vote with my wallet.

Stateroom profits are the same no matter who buys them.

Maybe non smokers spend more in the spa and healthy activities like the thalasso pool and thermal suite area and taking fitness classes and buying healthy foo foo drinks.

[RedmondCruiser]

On the flip side. If I'm playing at one of the tables in the casino and someone lights up, I cash in and leave. In the bar I generally stay away when there is too much smoke. I don't make a big deal about it but my cash flow to HAL stops when there is too much smoke. --- Sorry but I'm a former smoker and we are the least tolerant.

[pipedreams62]

2.00....really? I call BS.

 

 

I just changed shoes;)

 

 

[AirGorilla]

And isn't it a fact non-smokers have a tendency not to drink? And I can't tell you how many folks I've meet in the casino who consider themselves non-smokers that bum cigarettes as they gamble..

 

I don't know about your "tendencies", as you describe them, but please know that I do not smoke, do enjoy gambling, and have an affinity and appreciation for the grape and its byproducts!!

 

Also, I have no problems with specific public areas where smoking is allowed.

[HALFans]

What about the health issue of secondary smoke, particularly as affects the serving staff?

 

I asked one of the Ryndam bartenders about staff smoking earlier this month.

 

He said about 5% of the Filipinos smoke, but nearly 70% of the Indonesians smoked (chain-smoked!).

 

I'll bet that smoking conditions in the Crew quarters are NOT the same as the public quarters, and that the non-smoking crew are probably much better off in any passenger public space, no matter what the ambient smoke level.

[Arwen]

As a nonsmoker, I certainly don't like the idea of HAL needing to be Draconian with smokers.

 

That being said....it is a problem when a nonsmoker needs to pass through a smokey area just to get to the dining room or for that matter you avoid the shops because of drifting offensive smoke. I wonder why there is no special air exchange/filter system that could be installed to rapidly remove the odor?

 

I can handle the occasional passing through smokey public areas, but cannot and will not tolerate paying for a cabin that reeks of it. On three out of six of our cruises our cabin had not been cleaned properly. We were forced out of our cabin for several hours on our second Alaska cruise to allow the ozone machine to run....and it did not remove the odor entirely.

 

On our most recent cruise, the cabin was fine, but the bathroom reeked Every time we showered........ was nauseating. I figured out it was the shower curtain (room steward hung a clean one) and the shower surround had not been scrubbed ( I did it myself!)

 

My suggestion on HAL's smoking survey was to allow smoking BUT that they MUST hire a specialized cleaning crew to come on board (not the room stewards) who can and will thoroughly clean from top to bottom, shampooing carpets, removing curtains, etc., and including scrubbing down the tiles in the shower surround. Smokers would need to be willing to cover the added expenditure with a special cleaning fee.

 

Not everyone is going to be happy all the time. HAL has to respond to the loudest majority.....apparently the countless surveys have convinced them.

 

Here in Seattle there was a huge uproar when all restaurants were "commanded" to go to nonsmoking by our state legislature. There was a huge furor over this new policy. Businesses complained about the prospect of losing money, etc. In the end (and it has been about five years), most restaurants have actually thrived, though a few heavily frequented by mostly smokers did go out of business.

[AirGorilla]

thats why i bring a "spittin jar" to the lounges on board. It`s a old mason jar that grandmaw used for chewin. She`s gone now. I got it in the will.

 

 

Rich

 

rotflmao!!!!!

[usha]

Thats why I bring a "Spittin Jar" to the lounges on board. It`s a old Mason Jar that grandmaw used for chewin. She`s gone now. I got it in the will.

 

 

Rich

That one got me pretty good, too.:D:eek:

[HALFans]

As it is right now, on HAL, I would never pay up for a balcony room. I've heard too many stories about non-smokers not able to enjoy their balconies because of the smoke from their next door neighbors.

 

And smokers see no point in paying for a Veranda if you can't smoke on it. Why not just save the extra $1,000pp (on the S/R class) and get an Outside stateroom?

[FoxyTerrier]

I don't really understand the need to smoke and drink at the same time.

 

Can't you have a smoke outside and then go and enjoy a drink at the Ocean Bar if that's the bar of choice.

 

As for my personal preference I much prefer having a pre-dinner glass of wine out on my balcony so it does matter to me if the Ocean Bar is smoking or non-smoking - I'm not even sure I've ever had a drink there.

 

I do like the non-smoking nights in the casino so maybe that's the answer. Some nights are smoke free in the Ocean Bar and some night it's fine to smoke there.

[shotei]

And smokers see no point in paying for a Veranda if you can't smoke on it. Why not just save the extra $1,000pp and get an Outside stateroom?

 

That's exactly what I do, but I would prefer to be able to sit on my own balcony and breathe fresh air. I really like fresh sea air and wouldn't mind paying extra for the access to it.

 

I'm amazed at the arrogance of the smoking set, flaunting their ability to "vote with their wallets", trying to browbeat HAL into submission (ala the OP's passive-aggressive "open letter"). I've never seen any evidence to suggest that smokers have fatter wallets than non-smokers.

 

Marc