OPEN LETTER to Mr Stein Kruse, CEO, HAL concerning recent changes in policies

[m steve]

We also have stopped going for drinks before and after dinner due to resticting smoking in Ocean bar. On Noordam there were only 4 tables and the bar where you could smoke. On Westerdam in Feb. the bartender told me that there was no smoking allowed so we just stayed on our balcony and drank there (not from room service or mini bar) My partner went to the casino a few times after dinner for a smoke. Our bar bill was about 1/3 of our usual bar expense on HAL. The recent survey seemed to be worded so that it was easy to say to limit smoking further, not balanced at all. We used to split our trips between HAL and X but have left X due to no balcony smokingh policy. If HAL restricts it further we will find another line. I can't understand why there are so many adament people who demand that even 10 spaces in one bar should be restricted when there are hundreds of bar spaces where no smoking is allowed.

[gotsand]

We could smoke in the sports bar, casino and the lido bar. The sports bar was packed every night. I think allowing 1 inside bar and the aft lido bar and ones balcony to smoke is fine. I do not agree with smoking in the cabin. Last May on the Oosterdam, it was the same, other than no smoking in the casino a couple of nights between 8-11, if I remember correctly.

We would not cruise HAL if it was non smoking. I try to be respectful to all who do not smoke.

[michmike]

Guess if I'm looking for self righteous , intolerant folks I need look no further...

 

I'm not a smoker, never have been. I tend to avoid venues where I know the air will be thick w/ smoke. But I don't see where a dozen seats in the ocean bar for smokers is going to be the end of the world.

 

Are we going to eliminate the peanuts, on the chance that someone w/ a nut allergy happens along?

 

I've said this before on other smoking threads and will say it once more.. you start treating the twinkie consumers of the world the way you do smokers and the war will be on.

 

How many of you self righteous "don't allow them to even smoke in their stateroom" folks are lugging around 50 lbs extra like I am. Or drink more than you should. We all pick our poisons.

[meterman2]

Guess if I'm looking for self righteous , intolerant folks I need look no further...

 

I'm not a smoker, never have been. I tend to avoid venues where I know the air will be thick w/ smoke. But I don't see where a dozen seats in the ocean bar for smokers is going to be the end of the world.

 

Are we going to eliminate the peanuts, on the chance that someone w/ a nut allergy happens along?

 

I've said this before on other smoking threads and will say it once more.. you start treating the twinkie consumers of the world the way you do smokers and the war will be on.

 

How many of you self righteous "don't allow them to even smoke in their stateroom" folks are lugging around 50 lbs extra like I am. Or drink more than you should. We all pick our poisons.

 

Well said!

[pipedreams62]

Guess if I'm looking for self righteous , intolerant folks I need look no further.

 

 

You hit a "Gusher"

 

[Copper10-8]

Guess if I'm looking for self righteous , intolerant folks I need look no further...

 

I'm not a smoker, never have been. I tend to avoid venues where I know the air will be thick w/ smoke. But I don't see where a dozen seats in the ocean bar for smokers is going to be the end of the world.

 

Are we going to eliminate the peanuts, on the chance that someone w/ a nut allergy happens along?

 

I've said this before on other smoking threads and will say it once more.. you start treating the twinkie consumers of the world the way you do smokers and the war will be on.

 

How many of you self righteous "don't allow them to even smoke in their stateroom" folks are lugging around 50 lbs extra like I am. Or drink more than you should. We all pick our poisons.

 

Excellent post!

[BruceMuzz]

Given your personal opinions on smoking, which you've been happy to post from time to time, why would we trust what you are saying? You are hardly an impartial "reporter" on this subject.

 

I rarely claim to be impartial on any subject.

But in this case, I really don't care if people smoke or not.

It doesn't bother me one way or another.

But it is annoying to put up with all the non-smoking cruisers who go on a cruise knowing that there will be a large number of smokers - then whining about it.

 

PEOPLE - PLEASE PAY ATTENTION.

THERE IS A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF SMOKERS ON CRUISE SHIPS THAN ON LAND. IF YOU DON'T LIKE SMOKING, THEN STAY HOME.

 

But if you like complaining about smokers, take a cruise.

[RustaRoo]

I'm with Jim. We will sail in our suite this coming Saturday for two weeks, and I expect our bar bill (which is usually pretty hefty) to be half of what it usually is on board because of this change. We will likely gamble a lot less, if there are non smoking nights in the casino. We will probably cancel our Oosterdam suite for next April. Yes, I'm sure HAL doesn't care, and the non smokers will be happy, but hey, revenue is revenue, and my several thousands of dollars will add up as others do the same.

I don't find this logical. So a smoker cancels a suite - big deal - it's purchased by a non-smoker. No loss of income. So a smoker doesn't buy a drink - big deal - a non-smoker now has a place to sit at the bar and buy a drink. No loss of income. So a smoker doesn't gamble - big deal......

 

You get the idea.

[innlady1]

Oooo. That's the best! I like extra butter, please. ;)

 

Extra butter for me, too, please! ;)

[bepsf]

Our message is really that in a time of severe economic distress HAL has made a concious decision to change a long standing policy (that was working) and has alienated a segment of its customer base that traditionally spends a lot of money.

 

We truly enjoy HAL and it will be a shame leaving her but we voice ou opinions by how we spend our monies and we hope that others do to.

 

Can HAL really afford this new policy?????

 

Only time will tell..

 

Ruth & Jim

 

Jim--

 

I'm a non-smoker and I'll admit that I generally prefer to stay away from smoky rooms...

...But I respect what you're saying and I don't believe that it's a good idea - now or ever - for any business to discourage loyal customers to continue spending good money with them, whether it's by telling them that they can't smoke anymore, lowering the quality of food, or lowering the levels of service.

 

The ships are sufficiently large that you should have spaces where you can enjoy your cigarettes/cigars, etc. and do your gambling, conversing and cocktailing - and there should be plenty of other spaces aboard where I can enjoy my gambling, cocktails and conversations in a smoke-free environment.

 

(BTW - Who's brilliant idea was it to get rid of the Oak Room and Smoking Rooms aboard HAL ships?)

[innlady1]

I don't find this logical. So a smoker cancels a suite - big deal - it's purchased by a non-smoker. No loss of income. So a smoker doesn't buy a drink - big deal - a non-smoker now has a place to sit at the bar and buy a drink. No loss of income. So a smoker doesn't gamble - big deal......

 

You get the idea.

 

I agree, Richard.

 

Case in point: There have been many times when we've tried to find a seat in the Ocean Bar and the only seats available were in the Smoking Area. Would have stayed if that were not the case.

[bellebaby]

I, personally, try to tolerate smokers and their rights. However, when there's a smoker next door that smokes on the balcony... it's miserable. It does diminish our enjoyment of the cruise. If some type of compromise.. that actually works.. isn't reached on HAL (and other lines that have the same policy) we'll certainly consider other lines and land based vacations. Life and vacations are too short ...

 

B

[usha]

Maybe someone said this, and I missed it, but;

 

HAL does a survey on all its cruises about smoking. Doesn't it make sense that their smoking policy is reflecting the surveys?

 

Also, there seems to be some confusion on this thread about the most recent changes to policy. It would be interesting to hear from people who have just cruised as to what the current policies were on their ships.

Bingo! the smoking surveys!

Also, if the new smoke-free policy was in place for the Ocean Bar on Westerdam as of Feb 1-15, they were doing a horrible job of enforcing it. People were smoking on the bar side, and also on the side where the band was playing & people were dancing. It was just too smokey to stay there very long most evenings.

[world~citizen]

How many of you self righteous "don't allow them to even smoke in their stateroom" folks are lugging around 50 lbs extra like I am. Or drink more than you should. We all pick our poisons.

 

No one is questioning your right to compromise your health...but if you drink too much your bartender does not become an alcoholic. If you get fat your waiter doesn't get hypertension. You can pick your own poison. It is selfish to demand the right to pick the poison for the serving staff.

 

In short, this issue is not about just you.

 

Not one person supporting the OP's position addresses this.

 

Smooth sailing to you..

[serendipity1499]

Flip side of the coin: can HAL afford not to listen to the much larger group of non-smokers?

 

In New York City they painted a gloomy picture for bars and restaurants when smoking was banned in public places. Well, that doomsday scenario did not happen.

 

The same thing happened in Florida..,However since we have such good weather most of the time, many of our Restaurants & Bars have outside venues in which smokers can enjoy a drink & dinner.

 

Most HAL ships receive between 150 and 200 complaints per week about too much smoking; and about 5 or 10 complaints per week about not enough space for smokers.

 

If you managed the cruise line, who would you listen to??

 

Agree with you..In our office we had 90% non smokers & 10% Smokers..The non-smokers of course were more vocal until the ban went into effect about smoking in the office..Then the grousing started with the Smokers.. However, it was a known fact that the smokers used up more of their sick-time than the non=smokers.. Our Secretary was responsible for keeping track of attendance, as we paid an extra weeks salary to those who were not ill during the year..

 

I stopped smoking 31 years ago & can attest to the fact that instead of having three to four colds/sore throats in a season, now only get one cold & sometimes no illness in a season..I'll also leave the casino & bars, if there is too much smoke..However I don't drop $50.00 a night in the slots at anytime & never drink more than one drink a night...My sister- in-law on the other hand didn't stop smoking until 10 years ago when she was diagnosed with emphysema & then lung cancer followed..It's been a sad thing for her family to see, as she is a wonderful wife & mother of six, a fantastic & loving sister-in-law & Grandmother..Fortunately we just received good news that her latest scan was cancer free..We are all so happy!

JMO..:)Betty

[pipedreams62]

[topspot]

... in the neighborhood of $4,200.00 in savings to us and lost income to you over a years time.

 

Jim, HAL may not be receiving your lost revenue, but just maybe they are receiving inceased revenue fron other pax that find the atmosphere in the bars more enjoyable.

 

It would be interesting to see some stats pre and post policy change regarding revenue in areas affected by the changes. But HAL is not likely to share that info with us or anyone else.

[usha]

 

Yup, a real lady killer...

The ones he doesn't kill, he cripples.;)

[world~citizen]

...My sister- in-law on the other hand didn't stop smoking until 10 years ago when she was diagnosed with emphysema & then lung cancer followed..It's been a sad thing for her family to see, as she is a wonderful wife & mother of six, a fantastic & loving sister-in-law & Grandmother..Fortunately we just received good news that her latest scan was cancer free..We are all so happy!

JMO..:)Betty

 

That is fantastic.

 

Smooth sailing to you...

[Boytjie]

Are we going to eliminate the peanuts, on the chance that someone w/ a nut allergy happens along?

 

A NY Times article this week mentioned that trials look promising for desensitizing kids to peanuts by introducing small amounts and increasing it slowly (do not try this at home!). I don't think the equivalent solution will work for the smoke averse - just introduce it in ever increasing small amount. :)

 

How many of you self righteous "don't allow them to even smoke in their stateroom" folks are lugging around 50 lbs extra like I am. Or drink more than you should. We all pick our poisons.

 

I am not THAT overweight! :D

 

Well, usually being overweight and drinking does not affect those in your immediate vicinity (OK, except for drunken driving etc) the same way secondhand smoke does.

[Boytjie]

PEOPLE - PLEASE PAY ATTENTION.

THERE IS A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF SMOKERS ON CRUISE SHIPS THAN ON LAND. IF YOU DON'T LIKE SMOKING, THEN STAY HOME.

 

What is the source of your information ?

[Cruise Junky]

We're sailing on our first HAL cruise in May and one of the things I loved about the Grand Princess was half the casino was non-smoking and they actually did a good job on the ventilation that you didnt' smell it at all. Is the HAL casino completely smoking? or is there a no smoking side? Tx

[Nutrioso]

Hooray! Jim Hannah is fixing the Orville's. I like mine with butter and a little sprinkling of parmesan cheese. Yum!

This type of thread is a kind of circus arrangement where the same things go around and around and around, without much change.

I was talking to the Hotel Mgr on the Ryndam last November. He told me that the smoking element on HAL averaged 5% or a tad less across the fleet. An interesting fact considering the average across the populace is around 20%.

----Penny

[bepsf]

However, it was a known fact that the smokers used up more of their sick-time than the non-smokers...

...we paid an extra weeks salary to those who were not ill during the year..

 

I wonder what those folks did with that extra week's pay...

...did they go on a cruise?

 

Perhaps I should start smoking so I could get an extra week's pay too!

;)

[usha]

I wonder what those folks did with that extra week's pay...

...did they go on a cruise?

 

Perhaps I should start smoking so I could get an extra week's pay too!

;)

Brian, I think it's the other way around. I think the non-smokers were the ones who ended up getting an extra week's pay.