The Grinch who took back the Hotel Service Charge

But to put things into perspective, if a ship worker makes over $7,500 per year, they are in the top 15 percentile of wealth in their home country.

But the other 85% at least are at home with their families. These cruise ship workers spend long months away from their spouses, children, parents, etc.

You can't put a price on that.

I stand by what I said and I fail to see why my comment should shatter your life. It is how I feel. Period.

Most people are familiar with the age old phrase "There is a special place in Hell reserved for (fill in the blank)." It is NOT considered inflammatory or meant to incite extreme discomfort to anyone who hears it.

If the CC moderator does not see a need to censor a post, neither should other CC members.

How many times will it have to be posted that those who choose to tip only those who have personally given them great service hurt the back of the house people who work very hard to give them a great experience?

And .... how many times will it have to be posted that those crew members who receive tips from passengers who have removed the HSC must turn them in to be shared with back of the house employees???

Sorry, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck --- it's a duck ------ in this case, a CHEAP duck.

Since taking a few cruises I have been the 'go to girl' round the office/neighbourhood/friends for those starting their first cruise experience and know first hand the shock of first time cruisers only finding out about the HSC after they have booked (or in some cases sailed).

To clarify I am Australian who has never travelled any outside the Australasian region, so do not really understand the concept of tipping. However I was fortunate enough with our first cruise to have a TA who explained all the charges and what they were for. Consequently I was pleased being on a US ship that I could pay the Gratuities charge (as it is known here) and not be concerned about the intricacies of a tipping culture. Ever since I have duly added the Gratuities amount to my cruise fare so I know what the true cost is to me. Also tipped a bit extra a couple of times for exceptional service (something which I am familiar with).

However almost to a person new cruisers here in my home state are rarely told about the HSC and it comes as a great surprise to them that their 14 day cruise is going to cost an additional $322, especially those on lower incomes who have budgeted very carefully to take the cruise.

Now while I do not condone in any way anyone abusing the staff and making demands, I can understand how someone on a limited budget who has been carefully watching their pennies, comes to the end of their first cruise and finds the extra charges, it would be a shock, especially if it is a local Australian/NZ cruise and you are not expecting US tipping standards to apply.

Australian based cruise ships have the gratuities built in, did it yonks ago when they realised it was not part of our culture. Also while Royal Carribean do put their gratuities onto the price you don't find out until you are 3/4 the way through the booking, same with Port charges, so their great advertised price goes up considerably.

For the sake of the uninitiated, especially those from non tipping cultures (or in the case of some Asian cultures tipping actually being an insult) I just wish HAL and other cruise lines who utilise a HSC/gratuities charge would put this information right up front with a good explanation what it is for. But until every cruise line does this I don't think you are going to get any changes.

the poster of this comment borrowed it from RuthC as stated. RuthC is one of the most honest, level headed and revered posters on this forum.

 

HSC is part of the cost of cruising. And it should be paid. Simple as that.

 

Subject of hsc is not really an opinionated one on CC or at least on this forum. Tipping extra might be, but most here will not remove the HSC.

What are the commonly agreed upon reasons it is allowable to reduce or remove HSC. Certainly some condition or circumstance must justify it.

I do agree it is a part of the cost of cruising and should be paid, but I also accept the fact it is discretionary and a guests last means of leverage in the event of poor service. But what constitutes poor service? How long is a rope?

Thanks for a helpful post, Elise.

Would you mind explaining why it is insulting to tip some Asian cultures? I have read that before and being from a tipping culture, that confuses me.

Thanks for a helpful post, Elise.

Would you mind explaining why it is insulting to tip some Asian cultures? I have read that before and being from a tipping culture, that confuses me.

 

If you can google, just type in Asian tipping culture, or tipping in Asia - lots of info. It will even be broken down by country.

....and you know there are a lot of cruisers just like you, infact most of us travel on a budget including myself.

Count me and DH in as cruising on a budget, too. We live on pensions - not big ones, either. I budget for our cruise, I set up a spreadsheet and I include all tips - HSC or tips along the way (porters, cabs, etc) and additional tips at the end of the cruise as well as every other cost we may encounter. I do the same for any vacation. Yes, I count pennies. That's how I manage to afford vacations. But even in my land life, I tip - lordy, I know my hairdresser makes way more money than me, but I tip. Likewise the servers in the restaurants we eat at. It's what we do. Simple as that. But I do know how to cut costs, and what I can and cannot afford. So yes, I have to count the pennies. On the other hand, I come from a country where tipping is not necessarily the norm, and hospitality workers are paid a decent wage. So I understand when people from those countries question the whole concept. But not to the extent where they have the HSC removed.

....and you know there are a lot of cruisers just like you, infact most of us travel on a budget including myself.

... and most of us would rather give up a spa treatment or the casino in order to have the HSC fit into our budgets rather than stiffing the hard-working crew.:D Having waited tables and cleaned rooms at a motel in order to put myself through university, I can vouch for the hard work that is done by the crew.

Would you mind explaining why it is insulting to tip some Asian cultures? I have read that before and being from a tipping culture, that confuses me.

 

Can't answer for all Asian cultures, but I know that in Japan it is considered rude for an employee to accept a tip because it calls attention to the employee individually when they are all supposed to be part of a team. The job of the "team" is to please the customer so that the business will benefit (not the individual).

It's a bit difficult to describe but it is VERY strongly a cultural norm there. (My company has offices in Japan.)

I just don't know what to think.....true story from last week:

 

Spoke to a couple I know- retired both on great pensions. Got the Ryndam 14 days inside cabin for $57 approx per diem. This will be their first cruise.

They asked me for a tip...pardon the pun......can the room service gratuity be removed- $22 per day for the both of us is just too excessive.

 

I was shocked and still am...and it makes my stomach sick thinking of that conversation.

 

SHAME ON THEM.

 

All I can hope for is that their interaction with the wonderful HAL crew cause them to rethink this course of action. :mad:

I'm sorry but were they teachers? I know teachers who have gone on cruises and regularly have the HSC removed. And before someone starts on me, I am a retired teacher/Principal so please don't go there with me. I know my colleagues well, unfortunately.

DH and I took our first cruise on NCL. Being from Oz we aren't used to tipping all the time (especially from a small country town, not a big city). We thought that we could tip those we came in contact with throughout the cruise. Once we read the details and understood that the HSC was shared amongst all crew members we happily paid it and then tipped extra to those crew that helped make a wonderful cruise for us. I do believe that there are those like us that, maybe due to our own ignorance, stupidity or failure to read the fine print, do not fully understand that it is added to our bill at the end of the cruise. This is no excuse though, for those that then remove it. Our second cruise is coming up next year and I am now fully aware of it and have budgeted accordingly for the HSC and extra tipping when needed.

Being New Years Eve I would love to take the opportunity to wish all CC members a Happy New Year and may it be filled with love, laughter, light and happiness. Forget the grudges, harsh words had with others, bad memories and focus on the new year ahead. Life can be cut short as we have all seen lately and we need to help change the world by forgiving all those who we believe have wronged us. Happy New Year to all and Bon Voyage.:)

I'm sorry but were they teachers? I know teachers who have gone on cruises and regularly have the HSC removed. And before someone starts on me, I am a retired teacher/Principal so please don't go there with me. I know my colleagues well, unfortunately. Quote from Danni3113

Hi Danni3113,

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Maybe Australian teachers are different. Speaking as a teacher myself, in my experience all the teachers I know who have gone on cruises have always paid the HSC willingly and also tipped the crew extra. Happy New Year.:)

Since taking a few cruises I have been the 'go to girl' round the office/neighbourhood/friends for those starting their first cruise experience and know first hand the shock of first time cruisers only finding out about the HSC after they have booked (or in some cases sailed).

 

To clarify I am Australian who has never travelled any outside the Australasian region, so do not really understand the concept of tipping. However I was fortunate enough with our first cruise to have a TA who explained all the charges and what they were for. Consequently I was pleased being on a US ship that I could pay the Gratuities charge (as it is known here) and not be concerned about the intricacies of a tipping culture. Ever since I have duly added the Gratuities amount to my cruise fare so I know what the true cost is to me. Also tipped a bit extra a couple of times for exceptional service (something which I am familiar with).

 

However almost to a person new cruisers here in my home state are rarely told about the HSC and it comes as a great surprise to them that their 14 day cruise is going to cost an additional $322, especially those on lower incomes who have budgeted very carefully to take the cruise.

 

Now while I do not condone in any way anyone abusing the staff and making demands, I can understand how someone on a limited budget who has been carefully watching their pennies, comes to the end of their first cruise and finds the extra charges, it would be a shock, especially if it is a local Australian/NZ cruise and you are not expecting US tipping standards to apply.

 

Australian based cruise ships have the gratuities built in, did it yonks ago when they realised it was not part of our culture. Also while Royal Carribean do put their gratuities onto the price you don't find out until you are 3/4 the way through the booking, same with Port charges, so their great advertised price goes up considerably.

 

For the sake of the uninitiated, especially those from non tipping cultures (or in the case of some Asian cultures tipping actually being an insult) I just wish HAL and other cruise lines who utilise a HSC/gratuities charge would put this information right up front with a good explanation what it is for. But until every cruise line does this I don't think you are going to get any changes.

Elise,

Thank you for putting how I also feel, so succinctly into words. I'm afraid I wouldn't have been so polite.

Total up front costs should be advertised from the start. Break it down however you want later but let the consumer know upfront, not in the fine print or contract. If it's not an extra cost, but an expected cost just put it the the total cost. SIMPLE. For those watching their pennies and budgeting, it might take them longer to save, but at least they won't be signed up then finding out that they need to pay more (as long as you cruise in an inside cabin of course)

Maybe cruise lines need to be more honest in their promotions and advertising.

But it is wrong to remove your tips/hsc/gratuities/whatever for no good reason at all, after you have used all that wonderful service. The rules are the rules.

Does anyone know for sure the real truth about who benefits from this charge. I seem to remember reading a post on here from someone who said the crew are paid a contracted wage regardless of service charge. If the service charge is not paid HAL have to make the wage up to the contracted amount. If this is true it makes no difference to the crew whatsoever and the only benefit is to the company.

If this were the case I, for one, would rather just give the cash directly to the crew although this seems unfair on the people who serve you without coming into direct contact as they would receive nothing.

Does anyone know for sure?

What are the commonly agreed upon reasons it is allowable to reduce or remove HSC. Certainly some condition or circumstance must justify it.

 

I do agree it is a part of the cost of cruising and should be paid, but I also accept the fact it is discretionary and a guests last means of leverage in the event of poor service. But what constitutes poor service? How long is a rope?

I haven't heard of anyone citing bad service as the reason for removing the hsc. And I have overheard a number at the front desk :(

If someone is having bad service truly, of course this would be a valid reason, BUT if they were having that bad a service, I would think they would have been complaining long before the removal of the HSC and it would have dealt with/corrected.

Does anyone know for sure the real truth about who benefits from this charge. I seem to remember reading a post on here from someone who said the crew are paid a contracted wage regardless of service charge. If the service charge is not paid HAL have to make the wage up to the contracted amount. If this is true it makes no difference to the crew whatsoever and the only benefit is to the company.

 

If this were the case I, for one, would rather just give the cash directly to the crew although this seems unfair on the people who serve you without coming into direct contact as they would receive nothing.

 

Does anyone know for sure?

I know that the HSC goes to the crew. And if you remove it and tip individually it goes into the pool so who you meant to receive the $ doesn't get what you intended.

And, I know it is part of the cost of cruising. spelled out clearly. that's good enough for me.;)

I know it goes to the crew but is the wage paid to them by HAL reduced by the amount of the HSC. That is the question I am asking.

Can't answer for all Asian cultures, but I know that in Japan it is considered rude for an employee to accept a tip because it calls attention to the employee individually when they are all supposed to be part of a team. The job of the "team" is to please the customer so that the business will benefit (not the individual).

 

It's a bit difficult to describe but it is VERY strongly a cultural norm there. (My company has offices in Japan.)

I was unaware of this and am glad that you posted your response to Sail's question in a way that we all can understand. Thank you!!

Joanie

Asian companies can, have and will fire employees if they are found accepting tips, fwiw.

I would like to see HAL do a better job of detailing HSC starting at time of booking and all along through the cruising process. I know that on my first HAL cruise I was confused on how tipping worked (this was before HSC).

Second, HAL should require all passengers who want to remove the HSC to fill out a short form detailing why they are doing this. It could be set up as a "survey" or something similar so as to not upset the passenger.

These two things would reduce, but not eliminate the problem with reducing/eliminating the HSC in my opinion.

DaveOKC

Because this thread, like most tipping threads, has devolved into a lot of interpersonal accusations and gratuitous animosity. it is closed.