Uluru/Ayers Rock in News?? Climbing?? Updates!!

From the New York Times this morning, they have this headline: "The Season of the Skulls" with some of these highlights: "Uluru was, 25 years ago, still referred to mostly by its English colonial name, Ayers Rock. It’s breathtaking, the way the massive rock rises out of the flat, red landscape. Uluru holds spiritual significance for the Anangu people, who own the land once again."

This American writer, who now teaches at Princeton, gives background from her family exploring in these areas of Australia when her father was doing post-doctorate work in geochemistry at the Australian National University. Their family did much during that period to explore this vast and interesting country.

From the London/UK Telegraph today, they have this headline: "Tourists warned not to climb Uluru after 11-hour rescue mission to save hikers" with these highlights: "Tourists have been warned about climbing Uluru after three male hikers had to be rescued from the Australian landmark. The 23-year-olds from Australia are thought to have got stuck in a crevice after going to inspect a waterfall. Rescuers finally reached the men by helicopter, ending an 11-hour mission to save them. There have been 36 recorded deaths at Uluru and the authorities are under increasing pressure to ban people climbing the iconic landmark; not just for their own safety but because the rock is sacred to Aboriginal people. The Australian government handed Uluru back to its rightful owners in 1985, but the rock was then signed back to the government under a 99-year lease as a national park."

During our first trip to Australia, we did not make it to Ayers Rock/Uluru. There were limits on our time/budget availabilities, plus we were also warned by those experiences in these areas that during January/February conditions there can be very hot and/or "buggy". Nice to read all of this added background on this scenic and historic area. Hope to make it back and to have a priority for visiting this dramatic area of Australia.

Any others have good insights and experiences to share from being in and around Ayers Rock/Uluru?? Tips and suggestions??

Full stories at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/25/travel/australia-kangaroo-season-of-the-skulls.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Ftravel&action=click&contentCollection=travel&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfront

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/oceania/australia/articles/tourists-warned-about-climbing-uluru-after-11-hour-rescue-mission/

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 156,055 views for this posting.

As to the climbing of the Rock, tourists are asked not to climb it as it is disrespectful to the traditional elders as it is sacred ceremonial ground.

That said, they do not stop people from doing it unless the weather conditions (wind or rain) are bad.

There is lots to do and see at Uluru without having to climb it. They have guided tours around it along with many other activities. There is the Sun rise and Sun sets, which are wonderful as you get to see the rock changing colours, there is the Sounds of Silence show and currently the festival of lights.

Near by there is Kata Juta (the Olgas) which is also impressive.

Kings Canyon is also great to see but is a bit further away.

Climbing the Rock was a done thing back in 1975 when I climbed it. There was a chain on the steepest part then a trail painted on the Rock that you could follow to get to the top, where there was a visitors book you could sign. I often wonder what happened to that book. I wouldn't mind reliving that experience by finding my name. The views from the top were spectacular.

Climbing the Rock was a done thing back in 1975 when I climbed it. There was a chain on the steepest part then a trail painted on the Rock that you could follow to get to the top, where there was a visitors book you could sign. I often wonder what happened to that book. I wouldn't mind reliving that experience by finding my name. The views from the top were spectacular.

I did it in August '75. Except we ran, yep back then I could.

I did it in August '75. Except we ran, yep back then I could.

I was there in August '75 too and yes we also ran :) You had to, to get up the other side of some of those huge 'dips'.

I was there in August '75 too and yes we also ran :) You had to, to get up the other side of some of those huge 'dips'.

Cool, might have met you sitting around a camp fire....:cool:

I haven't gone up the rock as I was only there in 2010 and they requested we respect the wishes of the Elders. However, I have been over it in a helicopter which was very cool indeed.:D

I've never climbed. By the time of my first visit it was more respectful not to. I've walked around the base a few times over the ensuing years. It's about 10km and you pass through a range of different country.There are a couple of water tanks along the way so you can refill your bottles. In the beginning you were up close and personal with the rock but over the years the path's been pushed further back. It's still a wonderful experience though and I'd highly recommend it.

Climbing is still allowed. To put things into perspective 36 deaths in like 50 years is insignificant when you look at the national road toll for a single state on a yearly basis, so the argument that it is dangerous simply does not stand. It is akin to saying the roads are dangerous so we should not be driving!

I am qualified to speak on the subject and I can tell you 100% for sure that the Aboriginals do climb it, however in their culture only elder males do it. They also prefer tourists do not look at the rock if they are not Aboriginal and there are male and female areas that each sex is forbidden to look at around the rock! It would be extremely sexist to have these kind of rules for international tourists so these traditional owner rules get cast aside. Only a hypocrite would pick and chose what traditional owner rules they chose to follow. You either accept all their culture or none at all. Also in that area it is traditional punishment for people who commit sins or misdemeanors to cop a spear to the thigh. Not intended to kill them but this is one of the major lessons taught to Aboriginals by their depiction of shapes on the side of the rock. They get their cultural lessons from the shapes and contours on the rock kind of like reading ink blots and coming up with an associated story about them.

In fact the Aboriginal people absolutely hate it when people jump on the bandwagon and try and promote the argument that "though shalt not climb" because it is doing negligence to the rest of their culture by ignoring what they are really about! I can assure you that even green groups are despised by teh Aboriginals as they were the ones responsible for the ban on fire prevention back burning which resulted in major fires in the 1980's in the area resulting in the extinction of many native animals that used to live around the rock!

Only a hypocrite would chose not to climb it out of respect and then go and do a base walk and wander through all the sacred sites not knowing if they are a male or female only area or if the area is meant for tourists or if the Aboriginals even want you there. Only a hypocrite would chose not to climb it and then go out and visit Kata Tjuta where the Aboriginal people prefer no non Aboriginal visit period. It is a male only area and females are forbidden to even lay eyes on the site with the penalty of death!

As many know just last year some maniac cut the climb chain resulting in the closure of the climb for many months. The board or managers of the UKNP which is comprised of Aboriginals only voted in favour of repairing that climb chain and allowing tourists to climb once again.

The issue for the Aboriginals is that it is a big money earner for them and still the majority of tourists going to the area are choosing to climb. The resort would not survive if climbing was banned and they know that. The amount of Japanese guests that visit the red centre out numbers the local Australians to the point that the resort has to employ Japanese speaking staff and just about every single Japanese tourist that visits it will make an attempt to climb the rock because it is part of their culture to climb.

Some may look at this and jump on the bandwagon and comment, but what do they really know? are they really that informed or are they just trying to take what appears to be the morale high ground and be part of the mob mentality group.

I am qualified with CDU to guide large groups in that National Park and know all about it. I have climbed it 3 times and it is safe to do when sticking to the main track. It is no different to climbing any other hill, mountain or structure in the world that people climb for recreation, enjoyment and to have fun and live life to the fullest.

The debate about not climbing it is nothing more than the "creationists" versus the "evolutionists" all over with the creationists being the ones opposed to it with no thought or research about the culture at all.

Well I and many others along with all the indigenous guides that have been doing these tours must all be hypocrites then.

They informed us (as part of the tour) that there were areas that were for women only and for men only. This is one reason why the path has been moved away from the rock. They also informed us of parts of the rock where it was disrespectful for a particular sex to look or photograph.

There are numerous groups of the indigenous from the area as they used to come and go, and their cultures vary, so one group may have a different interpretation to what is on the rock or by the rock than others.

I suppose, every single person is a hypocrite about one thing or another at some point.

Well I and many others along with all the indigenous guides that have been doing these tours must all be hypocrites then.

 

They informed us (as part of the tour) that there were areas that were for women only and for men only. This is one reason why the path has been moved away from the rock. They also informed us of parts of the rock where it was disrespectful for a particular sex to look or photograph.

 

There are numerous groups of the indigenous from the area as they used to come and go, and their cultures vary, so one group may have a different interpretation to what is on the rock or by the rock than others.

 

I suppose, every single person is a hypocrite about one thing or another at some point.

No there are not numerous groups that come and go. It is only sacred to the Anangu Aboriginal. They are the ONLY group of Aboriginal that have a sacred connection with the land there and the ONLY group to have occupied the area.

The path around the base still hugs the rock on the west side but it has been moved away on the east side.

The reason for their ban on photographs is that they do not want males and females seeing each others respective areas. The myth that photography is "bad" in Aboriginal views only ever existed when cameras became invented and they realised that the whole world could see the rock. In their traditional view no person who is non Agnanu should ever lay eyes upon that rock at all. No one can become Agnagnu except being born to one. That rock they consider theirs and any other culture, race or person in the strictest sense is not even allowed to visit the place or lay eyes upon it. That is the strictest interpretation of their law.

I have a Charles Darwin University degree on the subject so know it well. In reality in modern tourism where do you draw the line at what laws of theirs are to be followed. You either follow all the laws or none at all. You cannot pick and chose what part of their culture you accept or reject because that makes you a hypocrite and it is what the Aboriginals hate more than anything because it takes away the values of their entire culture. If a female visits a male only area (and they do on a daily basis), then they have seriously offended Aboriginal culture.

Well I and many others along with all the indigenous guides that have been doing these tours must all be hypocrites then.

 

They informed us (as part of the tour) that there were areas that were for women only and for men only. This is one reason why the path has been moved away from the rock. They also informed us of parts of the rock where it was disrespectful for a particular sex to look or photograph.

 

There are numerous groups of the indigenous from the area as they used to come and go, and their cultures vary, so one group may have a different interpretation to what is on the rock or by the rock than others.

 

I suppose, every single person is a hypocrite about one thing or another at some point.

Also what I am trying to tell you is that the Aboriginals have the same disdain for someone doing the base walk as they do people climbing it. You will probably note from the 1980's much of the base walk has been closed off also due to cultural reasons and in the recent decade more of the walk around the base has been closed off.

The master plan is that the Aboriginals running it intend to set up an exclusion zone around the rock of at least 3km and have no tourist approach it at all. Where the present day sunrise and sunset locations are is the limit to what tourists will ever see in the future. There will be no base walk ever in the future. That is their plans.

I'm just back from a holiday at Uluru and went on 5 or so guided tours of Uluru and Kata Tjuta. On the tours we were informed that once the number of visitors climbing the rock drops to below 20%, then the climb will be permanently closed. The traditional owners hate when climbers get hurt as they hate anyone to feel pain and get hurt, it feels personal.

There is a huge swathe of land to one side around Kata Tjuta that is for men's eyes only and no-one is allowed on that land (traditional men owners only), but we were able to do the public walks there.

It is a beautiful place to visit and would highly recommend doing small group tours in mini buses/4 wheel drives, (or by camel or Harley Davidson), which we also did !

No there are not numerous groups that come and go. It is only sacred to the Anangu Aboriginal. They are the ONLY group of Aboriginal that have a sacred connection with the land there and the ONLY group to have occupied the area.

The Anangu people are made up of many groups/tribes that I made reference to.

The Anangu people are made up of many groups/tribes that I made reference to.

One, but they speak four native languages and have a complex arrangement of whom each member can marry so there are no interbreeding between families. These days they have lost their traditional way of life since colonisation.

None the less their ultimate goal with Uluru and Kata Tjuta is to eventually shut out all tourists from visiting and keep them at a distance which is why a lot of the base walk is becoming off limits and more signs are being posted prohibiting photography. They do not want anyone there, they do not want anyone looking at it and they do not want visitors up close and touching it. Their long term plan is to shut off access to all visitors and keep them at the sunrise and sunset areas and further.

And charging for the privilege.

And charging for the privilege.

Indeed, I have no interest in visiting Ayers Rock, I don't like the way it is managed. The locals want you to pay through the neck for visiting, but then you cannot touch it. Many locals families are living off the Ayers Rock tourist dollar.

I don't agree with it being Aboriginal land either, it belongs to all Australians.

None of this would have happened if those fellas didn't arrive on that cruise ship in 1788.lol.

none of this would have happened if those fellas didn't arrive on that cruise ship in 1788.lol.

lol,:D

None of this would have happened if those fellas didn't arrive on that cruise ship in 1788.lol.

That's telling them :)

Well I'm glad ,people can relax and see the humour in it. We are aboriginal, or some concoction of genetics, as recent as mothers, fathers and grandparents.

Everyone participating in this thread, has got it basically right, with some not so right statements.

We can only comment on what we were taught, it is a very complex subject.

And even we get it wrong.

The key point is respect, and respect travels both ways.

That is what we have tried to instil in our children.

You cant change the past, and I sure wouldn't want to be living that past, BUT, we all learn, live and breathe each other and need to touch base, with each others feelings, culture and future.

What happened to both of us and one in particular is chilling, GRUDGES, no, get on with it and make sure the future is bright for those behind and coming through.

To the person with the Charles Darwin Uni,whatever,it means jack-#@$%, if you keep slamming both sides of the fence.

You seem to have an inability to find middle ground.

Well I'm glad ,people can relax and see the humour in it. We are aboriginal, or some concoction of genetics, as recent as mothers, fathers and grandparents.

 

Everyone participating in this thread, has got it basically right, with some not so right statements.

 

We can only comment on what we were taught, it is a very complex subject.

And even we get it wrong.

 

The key point is respect, and respect travels both ways.

 

That is what we have tried to instil in our children.

 

You cant change the past, and I sure wouldn't want to be living that past, BUT, we all learn, live and breathe each other and need to touch base, with each others feelings, culture and future.

 

What happened to both of us and one in particular is chilling, GRUDGES, no, get on with it and make sure the future is bright for those behind and coming through.

 

To the person with the Charles Darwin Uni,whatever,it means jack-#@$%, if you keep slamming both sides of the fence.

You seem to have an inability to find middle ground.

Don't let that poster get to you.

I doubt I have any aboriginal blood, in spite of rumours, but I had a great Aunty who was said to speak more dialects than anyone in the Country, tribes would even come to her when they had no common language, to translate for them, they were always welcome on the family property and mostly a steer would be slaughtered to feed everyone.

Indeed, I have no interest in visiting Ayers Rock, I don't like the way it is managed. The locals want you to pay through the neck for visiting, but then you cannot touch it. Many locals families are living off the Ayers Rock tourist dollar.

 

I don't agree with it being Aboriginal land either, it belongs to all Australians.

Actually it was handed back and then re-leased back to the government, with the fees funding indigenous rangers and tours. CORRECT. Many families living off the tourist dollar.

No different from the families that you hand money over to, in Vanuatu, or Fiji,or any off the islands.

No different from the money you hand over to the Maori of Nz, when you do a wonderful tour of a Maerai in NZ.

No different to the money that you hand over to a tour which is family run,in asia.

Don't let that poster get to you.

 

I doubt I have any aboriginal blood, in spite of rumours, but I had a great Aunty who was said to speak more dialects than anyone in the Country, tribes would even come to her when they had no common language, to translate for them, they were always welcome on the family property and mostly a steer would be slaughtered to feed everyone.

Yep,brilliant story, and that is what happened, but I am shocked, what no kanga tail, or goanna.:eek:

If your Aunty was close to the indigenous community,she would have been viewed as aboriginal by association, and I might add well respected.

Yep,brilliant story, and that is what happened, but I am shocked, what no kanga tail, or goanna.:eek:

According to Aunty Tot they preferred steaks, her homemade bread and scones with billy tea, go figure.

Roos not too bad, but keep ya goanna I've tasted that one too.