ADA a delicate question..

I have noticed occasionally at an airport that a person gets pushed up to the boarding area in a wheel chair, they get out of their chair to walk to the bathroom or to a food area, and then sit back in their chair and get pushed on the airplane first. These handicapped scammers give people who genuinely need the help a bad name.

 

Unfortunately, businesses can not and even if they could will not ask for proof of a handicap before they provide these people the help that some of them do not need.

 

Before I get flamed, I do not understand how someone who can walk to the rest room or can walk to and wait for food can not walk the short distance to the plane.

 

DON

What an asinine comment! :rolleyes:

Cruisers using wheel chairs, or walkers, are included in this act. Now, should, ( or perhaps do,) they be permitted to disembark ahead of others, regardless of their baggage claim number?

You obviously do not have a full understanding of ADA Law or any other laws that cover cruise ship travel for that matter.

• ADA only applies to cruise ships embarking from a USA Port and at that it only applies in part by the fact that cruise lines can't discriminate against someone with a disability.
  
• The only cruise ship that is required to fully comply with ADA is NCL's Pride of America which is registered to the USA and sails under the USA.
  
• ADA does NOT require cruise lines to give priority boarding and or priority disembarkation to passengers using mobility aids. For the record airlines do this as a method to attempt to make the boarding process more efficient but are in no way required under ADA law to do so. It should also be noted that airlines requests that anyone needing assistance or using an assistive aid remain seated until all other passengers have deplaned.
  
• Most of the USA laws that cover travel on cruise ships embarking from the USA fall under the U.S Department of Transportation and not the U.S. Department of Justice where ADA Law fall resides.
  
• The main law that covers passenger cruise travel regardless of disability is the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886.
  

Based on the above information why than do you think those using mobility aids should have any sense of entitlement when it comes to embarking and or disembarking a cruise ship ? For the record I cruise regularly using a rollator which by the way has a fold down seat.

You seem to be dividing the world's population into two categories - those who cannot walk a step, and those who can walk for miles. I can however inform you that there are people who can walk short distances but could not walk the half mile and more that a busy airport requires. You may be fortunate and have the same physical ability at 80 as you had at 20, but many people don't.

 

.

I fully understand that there is a major difference between walking the long distance to the gate and walking short distances. I am able bodied although a bit older and I sometimes get tired walking to the boarding gate. I know that there are many people who are incapable of the long walk to the gate but do some some mobility.

However, there is not a major difference between

a) getting up from your chair; walking to the food court; standing in line to wait for your food; and then walking back to your back to your chair; or

b) Getting up from your chair and walking around the boarding area for several minutes; or

c) walking from the boarding area to the plane.

The time on your feet is not significantly different for either of the three scenarios.

The problem is that the people whom you must admit abuse the handicapped boarding options make it more difficult for the people who really need it.

DON

Why would anyone who doesn't need a wheelchair request one for embarking/disembarking? :confused: Who would do such a thing? Bad Karma IMO

Be careful what you wish upon yourself. :eek:

Why would anyone who doesn't need a wheelchair request one for embarking/disembarking? :confused: Who would do such a thing? Bad Karma IMO

Be careful what you wish upon yourself. :eek:

 

Full disclosure: I'm a full time scooter user due to post polio. I fly and cruise a lot using my scooter.

I get incensed when I see the rampant abuse of early boarding for both cruise ships and airplanes. To be very frank, and for whatever reason, the worst abusers I've seen fly on a particular airline where there is no assigned seats. I'm amazed by the sheer number of those sitting in wheelchairs in the boarding area, being taken aboard, and once these people reach their destination, I see a vast majority of these previously disabled persons, sprint off the plane and dash through the airport. I wish I had the cojones to confront just one of these scofflaws.

I see no need for a disabled person to get priority boarding or disembarkation on a cruise ship. There really is no reason for that to happen. But on planes, early boarding is necessary, especially for those who have to fold up their scooters/wheelchairs or for those needing to be put on board using an aisle chair. But when leaving the plane, it is necessary for the disabled person to wait until everyone has deplaned because the handlers don't bring up the scooters/wheelchairs for a number of minutes after the jetway is open. When you're disabled, you have to learn patience or you just don't survive the insanity.

[quote name=kitty9;44337594 To be very frank' date=' and for whatever reason, the worst abusers I've seen fly on a particular airline where there is no assigned seats. I'm amazed by the sheer number of those sitting in wheelchairs in the boarding area, being taken aboard, and once these people reach their destination, I see a vast majority of these previously disabled persons, sprint off the plane and dash through the airport. I wish I had the cojones to confront just one of these scofflaws.

.[/quote]

You and I are talking about the same airline - SW. I have seen this problem several times with people boarding on Southwest Airlines. Unfortunately, the airline is either forbidden by law to verify a handicap or they chose not to for fear of alienating customers.

DON

allow me.

 

I do this all the time. my tolerance is ..maybe 5 minutes. on a flat surface. the access tunnel thingy is NOT flat, had those stupid blasted bump thingies where it turns to meet the plane. and I have stood far longer than 5 minutes on that ramp AND waiting for Joe Businessman with his laptop case, his carry on and his jacket to decide which overhead bin to use, and then try and stuff it in, leaving everyone behind him champing at the bit to get 3 more rows down to THEIR seat.

 

furthermore, I require shall we say..extra room to get into my seat. I cannot, due to my handicap, just squeeze in and plop down, I must, bend and twist and scootch, which blocks the aisle just as badly as Joe Businessman does with his antics.

 

woe betide the poor schmuck who has the window seat in my aisle( DH is forced to suffer in the middle) because it takes me a month of sundays to stand up to let him in.

 

I board first so that we can actually depart on time instead of having to wait for my broke carcass to get situated.

Ah, Spookwife, your description sounds an awful lot like my mom's experiences. She is not, thank goodness, in a wheelchair and is mobile, but when we get to some place like a huge airport (and Newark is definitely one of those), it's harder for her to get from baggage dropoff, through security (she needs to be hand wanded due to her artificial shoulder, two knees and a rod in her right leg), then down those long ramps to the gates, where we almost always end up at the veeery last one.

Thankfully, she often gets a ride on one of the carts that transport people who just can't handle the walk. She takes her cane more often now, and will sit in the departure area and let me or one of my kids get her a cup of tea or something to eat. Once boarding starts, she goes with the early group (and we don't fly SW so we all have assigned seats). She needs an aisle seat on the left side of the plane (when you're sitting down) because of her inability to slide to the right due to her hip. And if you're in the middle or window seat of her row, you have to wait until she can leverage herself back up to let you in.

So I can picture your experience as so familiar to ours. I thank G-d every day that she's still mobile and not confined, but we limit our walking and outings whenever we can.

You obviously do not have a full understanding of ADA Law or any other laws that cover cruise ship travel for that matter.

 

• ADA only applies to cruise ships embarking from a USA Port and at that it only applies in part by the fact that cruise lines can't discriminate against someone with a disability.
  
• The only cruise ship that is required to fully comply with ADA is NCL's Pride of America which is registered to the USA and sails under the USA.
  
• ADA does NOT require cruise lines to give priority boarding and or priority disembarkation to passengers using mobility aids. For the record airlines do this as a method to attempt to make the boarding process more efficient but are in no way required under ADA law to do so. It should also be noted that airlines requests that anyone needing assistance or using an assistive aid remain seated until all other passengers have deplaned.
  
• Most of the USA laws that cover travel on cruise ships embarking from the USA fall under the U.S Department of Transportation and not the U.S. Department of Justice where ADA Law fall resides.
  
• The main law that covers passenger cruise travel regardless of disability is the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886.
  

 

Based on the above information why than do you think those using mobility aids should have any sense of entitlement when it comes to embarking and or disembarking a cruise ship ? For the record I cruise regularly using a rollator which by the way has a fold down seat.

I don't think I stated my opinion, merely presented a question. Many interesting responses, as I hoped for. And yes, I am fully aware of the items you listed. Hope y'all have a great cruise.:-)

Disembarkation in Baltimore from Carnival Pride had walk offs go first, then anyone in a wheelchair or needing special assistance, and then the priority groups. It was handled well and very efficiantly. We were not in that group but I saw no problem with the staff assisting the wheelchairs off the ship before us. The staff was then able to go on to help in other areas of the ship. It made a lot more sense than having everyone struggling to move behind or push around those in wheelchairs. It was a lot safer for those needing assistance too.

I have to speak up here. Just because a person uses a wheelchair doesn't mean he or she can't walk. What if that person has just had surgery or chemo and tires quickly. He or she can still walk but there are times when a little help is needed. You can't always see why a person uses a handicap sticker on their car or why they sometimes use a wheelchair. I can speak from personal experience. I have an autoimmune disease that required chemotherapy. I could walk just fine for about a block but would quickly run out of strength and breath. I could easily have managed to stand and walk in a cafeteria line but would have had a real struggle on the boarding ramps or getting from one end of the ship to another. To the casual observer it would look like I was probably faking it.

Isn't it too bad anyone here has to feel the need to explain why they may need special assistance or the limitations they may have. It is hard enough losing one's mobility let alone having to describe limitations. My DH and I used to walk 2 or more miles most nights after dinner,,,, and then he couldn't. He developed a horrid disease and deteriorated very severely, very rapidly. The shock and trauma of that on both of us was quite enough without feeling the need to explain why he was using an elevator or wheelchair. We managed in whatever way we could as do we all as we travel through life.

On the wheel chair question

My late mother in law had a rare blood cancer and tired quickly

She'd use a wheelchair through airports etc - though would be able to use a restroom independently.

We cruised once with her--she used a chair in the airports and transfers. On ship she did little walking and spent much time in her cabin or on a public deck watching the sights.

So someone watching may not know how sick she really was ...

I can say that when my kids were little I was more worried about a ship fire/reason to get off quickly/emergency-----and how was I going to get around all of the chairs and scooters to get my kids to safety....

Many on that cruise (long cruise and the median age was high) were driving scooters and jammed up halls etc--

I can say that when my kids were little I was more worried about a ship fire/reason to get off quickly/emergency-----and how was I going to get around all of the chairs and scooters to get my kids to safety....

Many on that cruise (long cruise and the median age was high) were driving scooters and jammed up halls etc--

That risk is so small that it's not worth worrying about. It's about on the level as worrying about how you'll get out of the house if it caught fire and you've got all those chairs and tables in the way. You can worry or you can not worry, but it makes no difference either way.

I don't think I stated my opinion, merely presented a question. Many interesting responses, as I hoped for. And yes, I am fully aware of the items you listed. Hope y'all have a great cruise.:-)

Being that you are fully aware of the points listed in my previous post why than was your original question presented as pertaining to ADA Law by having stated in your header "ADA a delicate question. " and than proceed to post "cruisers using wheel chairs, or walkers, are included in this act" particularly since boarding and disembarking are not covered under ADA Law ?

'Ya know what? :D

Simple courtesy and decency probably are a good guide.

Be grateful if you are able bodied and give those with limitations a little leeway.

But for the Grace of God go You.

Up until 3 years ago I was able to walk everywhere but now I am partially disabled.

I require wheel assistance at the airports. It is very difficult for me to get up and down the steps in the shuttles to get to and from the airport where we park our car. And then we have to hunt someone at our airport to help get the luggage inside -- we no longer have porters to help. Once inside they get the wheelchair for me. Having no direct flights, I have to make certain that we have a lot of time to get me transported from one terminal to another. Wheelchair people are the first onto the planes but are last off the planes. I can deal with that.

Once we get off the plane I am wheeled to the baggage claim area and then out to the taxi stand. At the hotels where we stay, many of them have a walker that I can use while there.

At the pier, a wheelchair is brought to me and we go through security and check-in. HAL has a separate area for the wheel chair people and scooters. HAL tries to get all those people onto the ships first.

I rent a walker/rollator which has a seat to use on the ship and on shore.

At the end of the cruise, a wheelchair is provided for me to disembark. Since we have to go to hotel for the night before flying home, I am told that they will take me off the ship any time between 8:15 and 9:30.

The wheelchair assistance to get on and off the ship is arranged about 70days before our cruise by our TA.

I have noticed occasionally at an airport that a person gets pushed up to the boarding area in a wheel chair, they get out of their chair to walk to the bathroom or to a food area, and then sit back in their chair and get pushed on the airplane first. These handicapped scammers give people who genuinely need the help a bad name.

 

Unfortunately, businesses can not and even if they could will not ask for proof of a handicap before they provide these people the help that some of them do not need.

 

Before I get flamed, I do not understand how someone who can walk to the rest room or can walk to and wait for food can not walk the short distance to the plane.

 

DON

My mother is 76 and had a hip replacement several years ago. She can walk a NYC block or two but thats about it. Head on over to see JFK airport and then you will realize why she can go to the restroom there yet not walk across the airport to her gate......she isnt a scammer nor is anywhere in JFK a short distance especially with even a small carry-on. Dont be so quick to judge.

Why would that be?

I ask, even tough I am aware that there are people who do not believe that non-rollers should be allowed to use a wheelchair accessible restroom.

Yet in many places, those restrooms are the only ones with high seats and/or hand rails. A few years back, after some knee surgery, I could not use regular toilets for a while because i couldn't get up from them. Yet, I walked without any assisting items at that point. So I used the wheelchair rooms. And, yes, got dirty looks from non-wheelchair users who apparently just thought I shouldn't. Once a person in a wheelchair had to wait for me. I apologized and explained. She thought it made perfect sense.

Yet in many places' date=' those restrooms are the only ones with high seats and/or hand rails. A few years back, after some knee surgery, I could not use regular toilets for a while because i couldn't get up from them. Yet, I walked without any assisting items at that point. So I used the wheelchair rooms. And, yes, got dirty looks from non-wheelchair users who apparently just thought I shouldn't. Once a person in a wheelchair had to wait for me. I apologized and explained. She thought it made perfect sense.[/quote']

 

Yes, it does make perfect sense.

Physical conditions and needs are not always apparent to others and we shouldn't have to explain why we may need a higher toilet or grab bars but sadly .....

 

Happy you have recovered to not need those assisting items now. :)

Cruisers using wheel chairs, or walkers, are included in this act. Now, should, ( or perhaps do,) they be permitted to disembark ahead of others, regardless of their baggage claim number?

Same as airlines, wheelchair users wait till somebody can roll them off the ship. You will be allowed to disembark early if you are in a villa, or have diamond status. Money talk.

You and I are talking about the same airline - SW. I have seen this problem several times with people boarding on Southwest Airlines. Unfortunately, the airline is either forbidden by law to verify a handicap or they chose not to for fear of alienating customers.

 

DON

I am really getting tired of SW's boarding policy. I stopped using them after a flight last year when they called a family with small kids to board first - then they announced that the rest of the family members could join them - TEN of them. And earlier, two older people came into the waiting area pushing wheelchairs. Their luggage was on the seats and they sat in regular chairs up front and parked the chairs next to them. They were allowed to board next. When we landed, these two older people walked off the plane with their carry ons - no wheelchairs in sight.

I usually take don't care to sit in the bulkhead seats but the kids and their families selected those seats - so all the front seats were gone after more than 20 people were allowed to board first. Many people who purchased the early board option were not very happy especially since none of them did.

I also am getting tired of cruise ships allowing wheelchairs to board first. I have seen too many people jump out of the chairs and run off once they were on the ship. If someone really needs a wheelchair and wants to be on the ship early, then they should have their own or have arranged to rent one to be picked up at the pier. It is a nightmare at some ports before boarding starts, so why not come a little later. We usually come about halfway into boarding and can walk right on the ship.

I know what it is like not to be able to walk but I am talking about these people that abuse the system and remember watching a parade once when people started coming around and standing in front of me and I couldn't see anything - was I invisible in that wheelchair??? It seems like more and more people feel that they are number ONE and will do anything to get what they want. Remember Disneyland when people were renting handicapped people to join them so they could cut in line? I know many of these people want to get on the ship first so they can book the Sanctuary - they get the cheapest cabin and then pull the handicapped act.

I could go on and on about people I have seen use a wheelchair to board and then are dancing every night or running around the track.

My brother is a doctor and you wouldn't believe the number of people that ask for him to sign a handicap parking application. When he says no, they jump down off the table and walk out mad. I also have been next to walk up the gangplank when the crew has stopped us to push ten wheelchairs past us. And half of them are way overweight. I little walking might be good for them - I know- I know - they may have heart or other issues. That is why I arrive late. It is too bad some people make a bad name for others that really need the extra help.

Yet in many places' date=' those restrooms are the only ones with high seats and/or hand rails. A few years back, after some knee surgery, I could not use regular toilets for a while because i couldn't get up from them. Yet, I walked without any assisting items at that point. So I used the wheelchair rooms. And, yes, got dirty looks from non-wheelchair users who apparently just thought I shouldn't. Once a person in a wheelchair had to wait for me. I apologized and explained. She thought it made perfect sense.[/quote']

 

You missed the point.

Being in a wheelchair doesn't mean people shouldn't hafta wait their turn.

And half of them are way overweight. I little walking might be good for them - I know- I know - they may have heart or other issues.

Yeah......try to control your weight when you can't move very well or very much. It's often the people who need weight loss most (those with cardiovascular and mobility issues) who have the most trouble losing it and the easiest time gaining it. It's hard to eat a third of what your friends and family eat for the rest of your life.

Cruisers using wheel chairs, or walkers, are included in this act. Now, should, ( or perhaps do,) they be permitted to disembark ahead of others, regardless of their baggage claim number?

We have seen them go off, like others. I f you think there might be an issue, have your number changed before you disembark.