Huge brawl on the Legend, with video.

:o

No, but I never said anything about the security team- just the thugs that started this mess. They show up in many different places, so no reason to be terrified of Carnival - it could happen anywhere. Only way to be sure you won't view a fight is to stay in the safety of your home.

The security team acted abominably, they should be fired/charged.

I have heard various accounts of that groups conduct during the cruise. Some suggest they were physically aggressive and threatening throughout the cruise. One account said 36 were taken off the ship.

Can argue this point back and forth all day. But any passenger who got ‘assaulted’ by security put themselves in that situation. If you see something like that unfolding in front of you, and security is aware, the smartest thing you can do is walk away. More people in the area just increases the confusion and danger level. If it’s not your fight, no reason to get involved unless you are watching someone getting seriously injured or killed in front of you and there’s no appropriate personnel around to get involved. Taking the stance that security is the one doing the injuring and u are going to stop an injustice will most likely end with you getting kicked off the boat too.

 

 

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I am not sure of that. It seems this group was getting aggressive and threatening numerous times and with multiple passengers. If you are dealing with a gang of thugs you can find yourself a victim of a random act of violence. Should one expect being removed from the ship in that case..

International waters...... Anythings goes for security!!!!

KICK ---- CHOKE HOLD ---- BODY SLAM

I'm an Aussie and I'm not scared .. this was an unusual event. A large family group of 26 boarded the ship and were looking for trouble. Accounts of those on the ship say they acted like they owned the ship from the beginning, and were threatening and intimidating to other passengers.

Carnival didn't handle it well, as can be seen by the footage, I also think they should have been removed earlier. There is footage of an earlier incident of them being physically aggressive to crew - zero tolerance should mean just that, get them off, and it shouldn't be a "last resort" to remove an entire family group as Carnival stated, violence should never be acceptable, and removal should be the first resort for any passenger who is violent.

However, now that it's happened, and given the backlash they're receiving here, they will no doubt review their processes and training. I've had no issues on my two Carnival cruises out of Australia, and am going again in June.

You (and many others) have no idea why there was kicking. It is very possible that kicking was the appropriate action by a trained security person. I prefer to think that a person is doing his job correctly until I have reason to believe otherwise. You know, kind of like innocent until proven guilty.

Trained in martial arts????

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Well done security! Ferals like those thug passengers who were attacking people without any provocation need a good kicking.

Apparently, Australia has its' share of rednecks too. Carnival's incompetent Security staff didn't make things any better.

These 'rednecks' were a family of 27 ethnic people living in Australia. It could happen anywhere.

The following is a video of the “news conference” that Carnival Australia/NZ gave regarding the incident.

https://www.cruisehive.com/passengers-behave-violently-carnival-legend/22853

As a former Chief Marketing Officer of a large hotel company, who now teaches MBA students, I’m planning to use it as an example of what NOT to do in dealing with the press.

The man who spoke first was cold and removed, the woman was like an automaton reading a script. Why is it so hard for companies to learn that projecting a sense of genuineness, sincerity and humanity is far more effective than the apparently self protective corporate clone routine. That’s the case verywhere, but especially in a place like Australia, where genuineness is particularly valued.

When asked whether they thought that a security person kicking somebody on the ground repeatedly was perhaps excessive, giving a ridiculous answer like “we can’t say until we complete an investigation” Is both stupid and counterproductive. And she manages to contradict herself within about 60 seconds in regard to whether there was one isolated incident or a pattern of significant incidents during the week.

There were so, so many ways to handle this better.

I work in a psych hospital with patients that other places won't take due to their extreme aggression. I have to take training every 6 months on dealing with aggressive behavior. There are techniques that can be done to restrain individuals who become violent. There were enough carnival staff present to have taken those in the fight down and keep them down. I've never in my life seen 2 people trying to walk a person restraining them in the manner the 2 staff were trying to walk / move one of the guys. It Looked like 2 people facing each other both in a bear hug trying to walk this guy away. It's amazing that they weren't injured. Staff Kicking people already down is totally unacceptable. It was horrible. They should be fired immediately. These folks were not trained. Now from reports people involved were part of an extended family had been threatening people early on. Totally believe they needed to be arrested and taken off the ship. I don't feel sorry for them at all and the injuries they got...

A few years ago on a Carnival cruise, I went down to the service desk late at night and 3 people got into a verbal fight and positioning themselves to fight. The security guard came and stood there doing nothing. He was about 5ft. 1 and small (now don't get me wrong, I've seen lots of people his size be able to take a person down, but I don't think he speak very much English to defused the situation) The impression I got was that they really are there to give the perception of security, not to really do anything. If that is the case, they need people that look like bouncers... The guard didn't attempt to verbally de-escalate the situation.

The other time I was present when security was called involved a lady who was so drunk she fell in the piano bar. 4 officers were sitting there and did nothing. NOTHING. Didn't take out their phones, didn't move. I got up and got her up and was convinced to get her to go with me and her daughter, we made it to the elevator before security showed up to help. It took about 8 minutes before someone showed up.

One thing I do want to point out since everyone is very critical of the staff pushing people back (no the guard shouldn't have knocked the phone out of the persons hands) but those staff that aren't restraining people, should keep people away. For the safety of the observers and the staff. I've seen much much worst fights resulting with others jumping onto the staff and beating them up or others coming in and attaching the person being restrained. You have to get people away for everyone safety.

Between Carnival failings health & safety inspections and watching this video that shows the lack of training Carnival provides for their employees, make me serious question if I want to continue sailing with Carnival. This next cruise may be our last. Which is sad because I've have really enjoyed cruising with them. But it comes down to safety. It just isn't FUN being placed in unsafe environment. The wrong type of cut backs will come back to haunt you.... stopping putting a mint on your pillow is one thing... but increasing the work load and not educating staff is totally a systems problem and it is the corporation that should be held accountable. Unfortunately, the only thing that will happen is some of the security staff will be fired, the upper management will blame it on those staff only and tell all the rest of their employees not to do this, not to do that, etc etc.... and nothing will change.

A long time ago, when their was a terrible crash on Pan Am airlines..... the corporation said they were aware of the safety issues/mechanical problems.... it was cheaper to pay the families than it was to make the corrections. A corporation is there to make money... period.

Is fighting one of the 19 crimes that could get you sent to Australia?

I don't know but the wine is good

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I work in a psych hospital with patients that other places won't take due to their extreme aggression. I have to take training every 6 months on dealing with aggressive behavior. There are techniques that can be done to restrain individuals who become violent. There were enough carnival staff present to have taken those in the fight down and keep them down. I've never in my life seen 2 people trying to walk a person restraining them in the manner the 2 staff were trying to walk / move one of the guys. It Looked like 2 people facing each other both in a bear hug trying to walk this guy away. It's amazing that they weren't injured. Staff Kicking people already down is totally unacceptable. It was horrible. They should be fired immediately. These folks were not trained. Now from reports people involved were part of an extended family had been threatening people early on. Totally believe they needed to be arrested and taken off the ship. I don't feel sorry for them at all and the injuries they got...

A few years ago on a Carnival cruise, I went down to the service desk late at night and 3 people got into a verbal fight and positioning themselves to fight. The security guard came and stood there doing nothing. He was about 5ft. 1 and small (now don't get me wrong, I've seen lots of people his size be able to take a person down, but I don't think he speak very much English to defused the situation) The impression I got was that they really are there to give the perception of security, not to really do anything. If that is the case, they need people that look like bouncers... The guard didn't attempt to verbally de-escalate the situation.

The other time I was present when security was called involved a lady who was so drunk she fell in the piano bar. 4 officers were sitting there and did nothing. NOTHING. Didn't take out their phones, didn't move. I got up and got her up and was convinced to get her to go with me and her daughter, we made it to the elevator before security showed up to help. It took about 8 minutes before someone showed up.

One thing I do want to point out since everyone is very critical of the staff pushing people back (no the guard shouldn't have knocked the phone out of the persons hands) but those staff that aren't restraining people, should keep people away. For the safety of the observers and the staff. I've seen much much worst fights resulting with others jumping onto the staff and beating them up or others coming in and attaching the person being restrained. You have to get people away for everyone safety.

 

Between Carnival failings health & safety inspections and watching this video that shows the lack of training Carnival provides for their employees, make me serious question if I want to continue sailing with Carnival. This next cruise may be our last. Which is sad because I've have really enjoyed cruising with them. But it comes down to safety. It just isn't FUN being placed in unsafe environment. The wrong type of cut backs will come back to haunt you.... stopping putting a mint on your pillow is one thing... but increasing the work load and not educating staff is totally a systems problem and it is the corporation that should be held accountable. Unfortunately, the only thing that will happen is some of the security staff will be fired, the upper management will blame it on those staff only and tell all the rest of their employees not to do this, not to do that, etc etc.... and nothing will change.

A long time ago, when their was a terrible crash on Pan Am airlines..... the corporation said they were aware of the safety issues/mechanical problems.... it was cheaper to pay the families than it was to make the corrections. A corporation is there to make money... period.

I was waiting for someone to take this into the cutback area...ridiculous. I think you are right you need to move on to a cruise line where the fighting control is much more organized....happy cruising.

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Security officers in general are not trained to handle a situation like this. I wouldn’t expect better than average training for cruise ship security. It’s not fair to put someone in a violent and dangerous situation that they haven’t been equipped or trained to handle and then turn around and expect them to be fired when they can’t handle it. Would be kinda like taking you and putting you in a position of a NASA engineer and then firing you when you can’t get a space shuttle to launch.

 

I’m in law enforcement and dealing with an active fight involving multiple parties is harder to deal with than it sounds. It does take training, equipment, and enough personnel to stop it safely. I don’t expect any security guard most likely making minimum wages on a cruise ship to put themselves in the middle of a fight and get beat up themselves.

 

And just btw, tasers and batons wouldn’t have helped much. Mace is the right tool for that situation. If security doesn’t carry mace, have to wait till you’re have more guards than fighters before you intervene. Then u go through in pairs, cuffing everyone up. A guard acting alone to break up a fight is a recipe for disaster

 

 

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And here you may have hit on the real problem. According to reports the family at the center of this. Was 26 strong, it would be a shock to me if any cruise ship had 30 security guards on board.

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I am not sure of that. It seems this group was getting aggressive and threatening numerous times and with multiple passengers. If you are dealing with a gang of thugs you can find yourself a victim of a random act of violence. Should one expect being removed from the ship in that case..

I was referring to the claims of people being ‘assaulted’ by the security. Not the other passengers. Yes, you can randomly be assaulted by another passenger, or frankly another person anytime, anywhere. But choosing to turn around and engage in the fight is a conscious decision. And generally people don’t walk up to you out of nowhere and slug you, though it could happen (ie the knockout game). Generally fights begin with words. And again, if you engage that’s a choice you make. I have much better things to do that let a fight ruin my vacation so I’d be prepared to walk away from most anything to keep it from escalating.

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The family that was removed from the ship behaved like thugs. They were so violent and threatening to other passengers that security locked a few of these thugs inside their rooms to contain them. Reports in the media describe an very unsafe and tense atmosphere onboard for passengers and crew.

 

Yet oddly most of the comments posted have been about the security team's behavior as they tried to break up the violence. I agree that the crew member who attempted to take away someone's camera was wrong to do so. Other than that, security did the job they are hired to do. If you don't like how it was handled, let them know the next time one of them helps you on your cruise.

If you listen closely. The person fliming was first told to leave the area. He refused that was when what appears to be attempts to knock his phone out of his hand occurred. But could those have been attempts by a much shorter person to push him out of the area.

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Wonder if they have unlimited drink package...just saying

Nope Carnival Australia doesn't offer the drink packages.

Hard to believe there are no responses from people who were actually on this cruise.

I believe the security did a good job, mainly because one of those thugs had a headlock on a security guard. I see nothing wrong with helping a fellow officer. If these were real cops and had guns, who knows what would of happened. They do everything possible to help a fellow officer in distress.

Hard to believe there are no responses from people who were actually on this cruise.

 

I believe the security did a good job, mainly because one of those thugs had a headlock on a security guard. I see nothing wrong with helping a fellow officer. If these were real cops and had guns, who knows what would of happened. They do everything possible to help a fellow officer in distress.

Hard to believe you watched the same video as the rest of us.

NOT hard to believe at all, I just wish they had tazors. Anyone taking a swing at security deserves a good ole butt whipping.

Repeatedly kicking a passenger who is on the ground...keeping it classy.

e is very difficult to see exactly what is going on. When I saw them kicking what I saw was one or two guests on the ground still fighting. So I believe security was kicking telling them to stop resisting/fighting. But I could be wrong. In any case perhaps some refresher training is required for staff but it is still the losers who were fighting who are responsible and to blame.

I agree the video has little effect here. It will be different when network TV news picks this up though. Folks who have never cruised or sailed Carnival may think twice about it in the future.

And will those same people never send their kids to school again after a school shooting 3000 miles away ? Or never go to a mall again because of a brawl in a mall 3000 miles away ?

I agree that there are people who would react this way, but they are a very, very small minority. The cruise lines are not concerned about losing their business.

Hard to believe you watched the same video as the rest of us.

Us as in bashers focusing on the security guards instead of the thugs that deserved more than a few kicks?

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NOT hard to believe at all, I just wish they had tazors. Anyone taking a swing at security deserves a good ole butt whipping.

Interesting read this thread. Goes to my theory that too many people have been raised by wolves and are currently raising their offspring the same way. More concern for the over reaction of security than the large number of drunk and boorish people who do not have sufficient self control to behave in public and we wonder why we have school shootings. Time for everyone to take a long look in the mirror and determine if we want this to be our society going forward.

Totally agree with you. The problem is that a lot of the time people are too scared to tell somebody off when their behaviour is unacceptable for fear of repercussions, hence society seems to be on a downward spiral of self entitlement, anger and bad behaviour.

I have zero tolerance for drunk idiots who cause trouble and want to fight. They are pathetic morons who run feral and know most of the time they will be unchallenged.

We need to stand up as a society and say “no more”.

Does CCL have the right to confiscate a cruiser’s iPhone for filming?

I wonder about this too... Based on this statement in the cruise contract, I wonder what they can do:

16. GUEST’S USE OF PHOTOS, VIDEOS OR RECORDINGS PROHIBITED

Guest hereby expressly agrees that he/she will not utilize any tape recording, video, or photograph(s) of himself/herself, any other Guest, crew, or third party on board the vessel, or depicting the vessel, its design, equipment, or any part thereof whatsoever, for any commercial purpose or in any media broadcast, or for any other non-private use, without the express written consent of Carnival. Guest acknowledges that by boarding the vessel, at any time, Guest irrevocably agrees to this provision, which is a condition precedent to being permitted on board the vessel and can be enforced by any legal means, including, but not limited to, injunctive relief.

These responses that excuse the Security guards behavior are troubling. Since when is it okay to literally & figuratively kick a man while he is down? It is evident that either they haven't received training on how to handle these situations or they let their personal feelings get in the way of professionalism. Either way...it is a very bad look for Carnival. Someone has to remain professional & exhibit judgement above that of passengers.

It's not excusing the security but the whole story isn't there yet. But from what can be seen in the video as well as other videos out there is it appears as though the guy they are kicking is on top of another person and will not stop beating the guy beneath him. They should have been more aggressive rather than yelling and couple little kicks to try to get their attention, but there was a large group of these people so it is much different that just trying to deal with one or out of control people. The passengers were repeatedly commanded to stop and they continued to fight and pose a threat. I do believe they need some additional training or tools available if the event they run into these type of people in future but just don't think they should be characterized as kicking a man while he was down. They kicked a man who was continuing to resist. The guests made it physical by fighting and refusing to stop when commanded to..