Power boards

We are cruising to Alaska on Noordam in July. Wondering if we are permitted to take a power board with us for various chargers we will need?

Only if it doesn't have a surge protector on it. And even then it may be taken away from you.

You can get power bars at the front desk.

We are cruising to Alaska on Noordam in July. Wondering if we are permitted to take a power board with us for various chargers we will need?

If it looks like a power strip, it will probably be confiscated.

I bought two of the below from Amazon (one for checked and one for carry-on luggage with no surge protector), disconnected the cords from the bases prior to packing, and they were not confiscated in San Diego:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071YPQ4KS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

When I sailed the Noordam last year in a Vista stateroom, I did not need them as there were extra A/C outlets on the desk. If the Noordam will be in drydock before your cruise, it will have both USB and A/C outlets at each bedside. In addition, there will be two empty outlets where the TV/DVD player used to be on the desk.

Never hurts to go prepared but ensure you divide your adapters between checked and carry-on luggage to increase your chances of escaping confiscation by Port Security.

Noordam had USB outlets fitted in the cabin "on the run" when I was onboard in Dec.2016.

Power boards HAVE CAUSED SHIPBOARD FIRES & some with surge protectors interfere with the ships electrical system.

If it looks like a power strip, it will probably be confiscated.

 

I bought two of the below from Amazon (one for checked and one for carry-on luggage with no surge protector), disconnected the cords from the bases prior to packing, and they were not confiscated in San Diego:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071YPQ4KS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

When I sailed the Noordam last year in a Vista stateroom, I did not need them as there were extra A/C outlets on the desk. If the Noordam will be in drydock before your cruise, it will have both USB and A/C outlets at each bedside. In addition, there will be two empty outlets where the TV/DVD player used to be on the desk.

 

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What is over-current and over-volt protection, and how do they relate to surge protection?

What is over-current and over-volt protection, and how do they relate to surge protection?

I don't have a clue but maybe someone else does.

I don't have a clue but maybe someone else does.

Where’s Cheng?

Hopefully he’ll see this..., or someone who knows.

One of the illustrations for this product says it has those features.:confused:

The USCG issued a Marine Safety Alert which recommended that ships not allow "surge protective power strips":

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO%20Documents/5p/CSNCOE/Safety%20Alerts/USCG%20Marine%20Safety%20Alert%2003-13%20Surge%20Protective%20Devices%20Onboard%20Vessels.pdf?ver=2017-08-08-082206-293

Time out to define some things: Type "B" (120v) plugs have a roundish "earth" pin, a wider "neutral" blade, and a

narrower "hot" blade. Type "B" sockets have the matching holes. (Type "A" plugs don't have the "neutral".)

Shoreside in the US, laws say the "hot" side carries the entire 120v, and "neutral" side is left at 0v, so many (most?)

(all?) US surge protectors only protect the "hot" side because the "neutral" side doesn't need protecting.

Shipboard, the tendency is to split the voltage: +60v on the "hot" side and -60v on the "neutral" side (so a

short from a frayed wire to the hull is only 60v, not 120). Your equipment still sees a 120v spread between the

two sides and works just fine. The trouble is you can't tell just by looking at it if a shoreside surge protector

is built to ...play nicely with +60v/-60v shipboard wiring. Oops!

Pack an extension cord for the best chance of not getting the screeners twitchy. Even a triple-tap (3 sockets) one.

I don't have a clue but maybe someone else does.

Me neither, but over volt protection sounds to me like surge protection. A common thing in power strips is to fit a semi-conductor device (Thyristor?) between live and earth. If a voltage surge (over voltage spike) occurs it shunts the excess voltage down to earth thus protecting any connected devices. The problem is that ships do not have earths, and instead of 120V, 0V have 60V, -60V. If the protection does trigger and attempts to dump voltage, it doesn't go anywhere as there is no connection on the earth line, so these become a fire hazard rather than a safety device. The protection device is cheap and it is an extra feature to help raise their product above the advertising noise. Every one has them so they all fit them to remain competitive. The marine safety issue doesn't seem to be understood by the Chinese manufacturers, or they don't care. The US coastguard are aware though and are probably the best place for advice.

I posted about this on another thread which has a couple of links to further information.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=55898389&postcount=1860

Few misconceptions here.

Ships do have "earths" or "ground" (depending on where you're from), it's just that unlike the US, where the "neutral" is connected to the "ground" at the breaker box (so they are always at the same voltage), the ship uses a "floating" ground which means that both the two current conductors are above that earth voltage, as noted by previous posters. The ship's ground is there just like the one in your house, to prevent electric shock. The reason the ships earth/ground differently is that if your hair dryer's wiring insulation fails on the neutral wire, there will be current flowing in the earth/ground wire because of this fault, and it doesn't hurt anyone, but is also impossible to detect. With the ship's floating ground, if the hair dryer's wiring on the neutral wire fails, there will be current flowing in the earth/ground just like on shore, and this saves the user, but because the neutral and earth/ground are not at the same voltage, meters in the engine room can detect this current flow, and the engineers will come to deal with the ground (in this case telling you your hair dryer is faulty, don't use it anymore). The reason ships don't want current flowing in the earth/ground is because the hull is the earth/ground, and this earth/ground is floating in salt water, which is an electrolyte solution. The ship is made of various metals, and two different metals in an electrolyte with current flowing is a battery, and this will cause electrolytic corrosion of the hull or piping.

Now, surge protectors do put semi-conductors (MOV's) between the hot and ground, and neutral and ground. When used on a ship, they work just the same as when used on land, because there is an earth/ground connection, and when the voltage rises above the "clamping voltage" (300-600 volts is common for consumer surge protectors), the MOV acts as a short circuit from the hot/neutral legs to ground and dumps this high voltage to earth/ground. This is all well and good, protects your electronics, and works as advertised both on land and ship. The problem comes when something, lets say a light fixture out on deck, fills with water and goes to earth/ground. This then puts 120v into the earth/ground system, which is higher than the +/- 60v that is normally seen between the hot wires and earth/ground. This reverse voltage is something the MOV's in the surge protector are not designed to handle, and they start to fail and overheat. Even though this reverse voltage is not enough to damage your electronics (and unless they have an earth/ground fault anyway, they would not see this reverse voltage), it damages the surge protector's MOV's which can, at very low reverse voltages and low currents, go into "thermal runaway" and rise to temperatures where the plastic of the surge protector will catch fire. So the real danger of using surge protectors on ships is that even if your surge protector is working perfectly normally, and is brand new, an earth/ground fault anywhere else on the ship, completely out of your control, can cause the surge protector to fail and catch fire.

Whew. Now, for the item in question. Overcurrent protection is what a circuit breaker does for circuits in your house, and on the ship. When the current gets too high, a "switch" opens interrupting the flow of current. Overvoltage protection is a problem, in that many marketers equate this with "surge protection", but it isn't. Surge protection needs the connection to earth/ground to dump high voltages and protect electronics. Overvoltage protection doesn't need an earth/ground connection, and is present on virtually every little "wall wart" (little white cube) that your cell phone or tablet manufacturer provides. This works similarly to a circuit breaker, in that when incoming voltage gets too high, it opens the circuit, but does not dump the high incoming voltage to earth/ground.

Regarding US consumer power strips. The circuit breakers on them, if fitted, do only open the "hot" side of the circuit, not the "neutral" as well, just like a circuit breaker in your house. So, if there is an earth/ground fault somewhere else on the ship, that is putting a lot of current into what the power strip thinks is the "neutral", that power can continue to flow in the "neutral", even when the circuit breaker in the power strip opens the "hot". This is a danger of using these power strips, but not much of one, as the ship's circuit breaker will trip both legs when the current gets too high in either leg.

The thing is, that use of consumer power strips on ships is such a very minute portion of the market, that putting surge protection into power strips is almost universal, since it does just what it's intended to do for 99% of the market. There are many power strips out there without surge protection, usually in the $3-4 range. If there is no mention of "joules of protection", or just "joules", or "clamping voltage" in either the packaging or on the device itself (that fine print molded into the back), then the device isn't surge protected.

The other thing to note is that surge protection is not needed on ships, due to the same difference in earth/ground configuration that causes surge protectors to be dangerous. Because the hull is the earth/ground, and it conducts power to the sea and the "real" earth, when a ship is struck by lightning (one reason to have a surge protector on land), those tens of thousands of volts go right past the ship's electrical system (remember, no connection between the two hot wires and ground), through the hull and into the sea. I've experienced several lightning strikes on ships, and nothing has ever been damaged from these. The other reason to have a surge protector on land is voltage spikes caused when a transformer on the power pole (10,000 volts to the 220/110 volts going to your house) blows and sends a voltage spike that can reach up to 10,000 volts into your TV. On a ship, we use "steps" of transformers, since various things use various voltages. The propulsion uses 10,000 volts, so that is what is generated. This is stepped down by a transformer to 480 volts for general machinery use. This 480 volts is then stepped down to 220 volts for general lighting and outlets, and then stepped down again to 110 volts for the 110v outlets. So, to get a 10,000 volt spike to your Ipad, three separate transformers would have to short out to do so. No electronics that are part of the ship's equipment are protected by surge protectors, not the POS registers in the bars, the main computer servers, the navigation equipment, nor the engine room automation that keeps the lights on and the propellers turning. They are not protected by surge protectors because it isn't necessary.

I should add the short answer, both overcurrent and over voltage protection is fine when used aboard ships.

I have taken a small power strip on dozens of cruises and no one has ever said a word.

The thing is, that use of consumer power strips on ships is such a very minute portion of the market, that putting surge protection into power strips is almost universal, since it does just what it's intended to do for 99% of the market.

I have taken a small power strip on dozens of cruises and no one has ever said a word.

Thank you Cheng!

Time out to define some things: Type "B" (120v) plugs have a roundish "earth" pin, a wider "neutral" blade, and a

narrower "hot" blade. Type "B" sockets have the matching holes. (Type "A" plugs don't have the "neutral".)

Pretty sure that you mean Type A plugs don't have the round "earth" or "ground" pin.

Yep.

Pretty sure that you mean Type A plugs don't have the round "earth" or "ground" pin.

And that's why devices with a type "A" plug (two flat prongs, whether identical or one wider than the other (polarized)) cannot have surge protection. Most "pure" USB multi-port chargers will only have a two prong plug, just like the little wall warts, so they have "over voltage" not "surge protection". The converse of this, however, is not true, that anything with a type "B" plug (two flat prongs and a round/u-shape prong) is automatically surge protected. Three prong cords, power strips, or even combination USB and power outlet devices may or may not be surge protected.

And that's why devices with a type "A" plug (two flat prongs, whether identical or one wider than the other (polarized)) cannot have surge protection. Most "pure" USB multi-port chargers will only have a two prong plug, just like the little wall warts, so they have "over voltage" not "surge protection". The converse of this, however, is not true, that anything with a type "B" plug (two flat prongs and a round/u-shape prong) is automatically surge protected. Three prong cords, power strips, or even combination USB and power outlet devices may or may not be surge protected.

So what about using a multiport 3-prong power cube and attaching only 2-prong devices. Isn't that also a situation where surge protection cannot happen?

We have several devices that we bring on trips. Never been confiscated as yet. We have 3 prong cube outlets, that adds a couple more connection options. I have have a couple of nice power bars (no surge protection) that have really short cables. One has 3 and the other 4 outlets. The nice thing about those is the way they are constructed, the cord wraps around once and then plugs into one of the outlets making it nice and compact. The final doodad we have is a couple of 3 outlet extension cube (pyramids actually) that plug into the European outlet. Add some US -> European adapters and you have even more outlets available. As almost all electronic chargers these days accept 110-230v, this adds more options for charging, but as ships starting adding more USB Ports to rooms, things are getting better.

Between kindles, phones, tablets and a net book, we often have to charge 4-6 devices at a time. Really hard to do when some rooms have 2 or maybe even only 1 US 110 outlet.

And finally, for those emergency situations we carry a variety of power blocks. A couple in the 2000-5000 mah, are small and light enough for the backpack on shore excursion and the big (well not so big, but heavy) 22000mah is for the room when we really need it.

For another tip, I got some braided 10' USB Charging cables. Allows the DW to charge and use her phone/tablet, when the room outlets are not right by the bed, as they often are not on ships.

Cheers,

So what about using a multiport 3-prong power cube and attaching only 2-prong devices. Isn't that also a situation where surge protection cannot happen?

That would depend on whether your power cube is surge protected or not. If you are referring to the actual brand "PowerCube", some of those are surge protected and some are not. If the power cube is surge protected, then it is as dangerous as any other surge protected device.

We have several devices that we bring on trips. Never been confiscated as yet. We have 3 prong cube outlets, that adds a couple more connection options. I have have a couple of nice power bars (no surge protection) that have really short cables. One has 3 and the other 4 outlets. The nice thing about those is the way they are constructed, the cord wraps around once and then plugs into one of the outlets making it nice and compact. The final doodad we have is a couple of 3 outlet extension cube (pyramids actually) that plug into the European outlet. Add some US -> European adapters and you have even more outlets available. As almost all electronic chargers these days accept 110-230v, this adds more options for charging, but as ships starting adding more USB Ports to rooms, things are getting better.

 

Between kindles, phones, tablets and a net book, we often have to charge 4-6 devices at a time. Really hard to do when some rooms have 2 or maybe even only 1 US 110 outlet.

 

And finally, for those emergency situations we carry a variety of power blocks. A couple in the 2000-5000 mah, are small and light enough for the backpack on shore excursion and the big (well not so big, but heavy) 22000mah is for the room when we really need it.

 

For another tip, I got some braided 10' USB Charging cables. Allows the DW to charge and use her phone/tablet, when the room outlets are not right by the bed, as they often are not on ships.

 

Cheers,

HAL is installing USB outlets during wet- and dry-docks. Eurodam just got

a pair of headboard USB outlets last week, letting you side-step the whole

surge-protector issue with a USB hub and a bunch of USB cables.

:confused:

Then you get the whole USB-A / USB-C and std / mini / micro issues. :loudcry:

That would depend on whether your power cube is surge protected or not. If you are referring to the actual brand "PowerCube", some of those are surge protected and some are not. If the power cube is surge protected, then it is as dangerous as any other surge protected device.

I am referring to the "PowerCube" but how can you tell whether it is surge protected or not?

So far I have not had any problems on our last 3 ships.

I am referring to the "PowerCube" but how can you tell whether it is surge protected or not?

THIS ONE and THIS ONE say they are surge protected, THIS ONE does not say that.

I am referring to the "PowerCube" but how can you tell whether it is surge protected or not?

So far I have not had any problems on our last 3 ships.

Generally speaking, you cannot without disassembling it and knowing just what

the components you see actually do. The ironic part is that high-quality power

strips/whatever generally toss in the 2¢ of extra parts to provide surge protection.

If you read the USGS' Marine Safety Alert linked upthread, the problem is that

properly-working surge protection designed for shoreside use can turn a problem

*elsewhere* in a ship into a fire in your stateroom. :o No problem elsewhere

means no problem in your stateroom, but that's not the way to bet.

With more stuff using low-voltage USB for recharge, and ships adding USB

outlets to staterooms, USB is becoming a more viable and safer option.

I am referring to the "PowerCube" but how can you tell whether it is surge protected or not?

So far I have not had any problems on our last 3 ships.

Generally speaking, you cannot without disassembling it and knowing just what

the components you see actually do. The ironic part is that high-quality power

strips/whatever generally toss in the 2¢ of extra parts to provide surge protection.

 

If you read the USGS' Marine Safety Alert linked upthread, the problem is that

properly-working surge protection designed for shoreside use can turn a problem

*elsewhere* in a ship into a fire in your stateroom. :o No problem elsewhere

means no problem in your stateroom, but that's not the way to bet.

 

With more stuff using low-voltage USB for recharge, and ships adding USB

outlets to staterooms, USB is becoming a more viable and safer option.

Typically, there is some fine print cast into the plastic, or on a tag applied to the device. If there are terms like "joules", "clamping voltage", then the cube is surge protected. If those terms are not present, then it isn't.

And, yes, this is why I refer to surge protectors on ships as "silent killers" like heart attacks. Your powercube could be working perfectly, and the semi-conductors not be appreciably degraded, yet a ground fault somewhere else on the ship, as I've mentioned in my previous post, can lead this perfectly functioning surge protector to catch fire, even with nothing plugged into the surge protector. Even a very minor ground elsewhere on the ship, one that the ship would not normally track down to correct, could cause a fire in your surge protector, and are fairly common on ships.

I am referring to the "PowerCube" but how can you tell whether it is surge protected or not?

So far I have not had any problems on our last 3 ships.

Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

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