Veendam 'too big' to get into St Georges, Bermuda

[sail7seas]

The article does mention bottom clearance but we're all trying to figure out what that is.I have to be honest,I'm a quasi maritime historian-studied ships and disasters since I was a kid.In my opinion,Bermuda itself is unsure.One thing I do know for sure is that,for a ship transiting the "cut" it must be moving at a good clip(maybe 10 knots)in order to maintain steerage.The pilot gets aboard while the ship is in deep water and makes sure the ship has proper speed and is in alignment.If the ship is yawing(crabbing),she's gonna hit.That's what winds do to a ship and that would not be allowed.

To be honest,I really don't know any tighter passage in the western hemisphere where ships are moving that fast -If anybody knows of one let us know.

 

 

What about Cape Cod Canal where QE2 hit bottom?

 

I think excess speed was cited as a possible cause for the mishap. If I recall correctly, there was some thought she was going too fast.

[MERIDIAN]

When you say "Bermuda itself is unsure", what do you mean? They are not sure if the Veendams draft is too deep? Or that are not sure that the ship can navigate the passage?

 

At some point HAL didn't feel it was a problem. I just want to know what changed between then and now. The "cut" was always present and wasn't a secret.

 

Anyway, how is the snow in Floral Park? These are the days that I wish I was a apartment dweller. Now as a homeowner I have to clear the snow myself. At least my snowblower started up without a problem and will be ready for the morning.

 

The reason I say unsure in because no data was offered.When was the last survey done?

Where is Bermuda's testing facility?No names mentioned. Not to knock Bermuda but in the U.S. we have the Army corps of engineers in charge of that dept.Where is Bda's lab?

There is a phenomenon called "squat"(wiki it) that BDA may be afraid of.

[MERIDIAN]

What about Cape Cod Canal where QE2 hit bottom?

 

I think excess speed was cited as a possible cause for the mishap. If I recall correctly, there was some thought she was going too fast.

 

I was thinking the same thing while you were posting-HA!LOL

Go to wiki on squat and the answer for qe2 is on there

[sail7seas]

:) I remember seeing her in dry dock in Boston during the patch up so she could make it across the Atlantic back to Great Britain. It was sad to see her like that.

 

[iheartbda]

......This happened to us in '08 on the Dream when it was too windy for the cut,we docked in Hamilton the whole time. Hamilton has three berths and probably always has a free berth these days......

Not anymore, Number One Shed was demolished for the first phase of redeveloping the waterfront..

[MERIDIAN]

:) I remember seeing her in dry dock in Boston during the patch up so she could make it across the Atlantic back to Great Britain. It was sad to see her like that.

 

 

She only got a temporary patch in BOS.They did'nt want to pay for U.S. union labor for the full repair-She went right to Germany after that patch.

[sail7seas]

She only got a temporary patch in BOS.They did'nt want to pay for U.S. union labor for the full repair-She went right to Germany after that patch.

 

 

That's sounds right. I knew she was only patched in Boston but didn't remember she went to Germany for permanent repair. Lucky she didn't sink. That was a big gash. Wasn't there something about an 'uncharted' obstruction?

[TPKeller]

Has anyone ever come up with the difference between high and low tides in the cut?

 

Theron

[ziggypup]

The reason I say unsure in because no data was offered.When was the last survey done?

Where is Bermuda's testing facility?No names mentioned. Not to knock Bermuda but in the U.S. we have the Army corps of engineers in charge of that dept.Where is Bda's lab?

There is a phenomenon called "squat"(wiki it) that BDA may be afraid of.

 

I would think that since HAL has a vested interest in safe cruising, that they would have sent their own engineers/oceanographers/cruise experts/ship captains to survey this a long time ago. Maybe they did, who knows? HALs lips seem to be sealed.

[MERIDIAN]

Not anymore, Number One Shed was demolished for the first phase of redeveloping the waterfront..

 

Thanks but i'm left in wonderment over the word SHED as a substitute for dock,pier,berth,slip..etc..

Shed is usually used for airships like the Hindenburg or My lawnmower in the U.S.

But regardless of what you call it,are there still two slips left and if so what are the future plans for the shed?

Thanks in advance

[MERIDIAN]

Has anyone ever come up with the difference between high and low tides in the cut?

 

Theron

 

Another good question that's worthy of an answer.You might find it on RCC bermuda.I know it sound funny but Bermuda and Holland America are probably reading these boards hoping we'll do their homework for them- I have to go shovel some snow-goodnight all!

[iheartbda]

Thanks but i'm left in wonderment over the word SHED as a substitute for dock,pier,berth,slip..etc..

Shed is usually used for airships like the Hindenburg or My lawnmower in the U.S.

But regardless of what you call it,are there still two slips left and if so what are the future plans for the shed?

Thanks in advance

Got me but that's how it's always referenced. There is only one shed,(5/6) or as we call it, terminal, left.

 

.http://www.royalgazette.com/rg/Article/article.jsp?sectionId=60&articleId=7d7a4af30030004

[MERIDIAN]

That's sounds right. I knew she was only patched in Boston but didn't remember she went to Germany for permanent repair. Lucky she didn't sink. That was a big gash. Wasn't there something about an 'uncharted' obstruction?

 

There is some speculation that the obstruction was uncharted and it may be true but after further inspection(red hull paint)it was found that there would have been clearance had QE2 not sped through this area and dug herself in.This is the most famous case of squat and now a ship will use this scientific data as a tool like the"Oasis"used to clear a bridge as the wiki article stated-night all!

[bob brown]

Okay, instead of tendering at St. George, how about an extra day at Hamilton or the Dockyard if Hamilton is full, with frequent, 24 hour free HAL provided shuttle bus service (wheelchair capable) to St. George for one day??

Wouldn't that be preferable, and faster than tendering?

[ziggypup]

Okay, instead of tendering at St. George, how about an extra day at Hamilton or the Dockyard if Hamilton is full, with frequent, 24 hour free HAL provided shuttle bus service (wheelchair capable) to St. George for one day??

Wouldn't that be preferable, and faster than tendering?

 

That is a great idea and has already been suggested numerous times. But so far HAL has made no mention if they are trying to work something like that out.

[iheartbda]

Okay, instead of tendering at St. George, how about an extra day at Hamilton or the Dockyard if Hamilton is full, with frequent, 24 hour free HAL provided shuttle bus service (wheelchair capable) to St. George for one day??

Wouldn't that be preferable, and faster than tendering?

Maybe....but probably not. In actual miles, St. George is not that far away but it is not a direct route. The roads are narrow and already congested with traffic, especially during mornng or afternoon rush hours. Many more buses would be needed as opposed to a 700 pax tender. Think of possibly hundreds of people waiting for busses that carry only so many. Where are those busses going to come from? Residents complain now about crowded conditions on the buses that they have for their own use and only a few of them are handicapped accessible. They can't take any of their regular busses out of service to be used elsewhere.

[ziggypup]

Maybe....but probably not. In actual miles, St. George is not that far away but it is not a direct route. The roads are narrow and already congested with traffic, especially during mornng or afternoon rush hours. Many more buses would be needed as opposed to a 700 pax tender. Think of possibly hundreds of people waiting for busses that carry only so many. Where are those busses going to come from? Residents complain now about crowded conditions on the buses that they have for their own use and only a few of them are handicapped accessible. They can't take any of their regular busses out of service to be used elsewhere.

 

If the ship docks in Hamilton for the whole cruise, it will be there for 4 1/2 days. So people will be able to get over to St. George at their lesiure. So could take a bus, taxi or even the ferry. It is not like everyone will be rushing to St. George the moment they dock in Hamilton.

[iheartbda]

If the ship docks in Hamilton for the whole cruise, it will be there for 4 1/2 days. So people will be able to get over to St. George at their lesiure. So could take a bus, taxi or even the ferry. It is not like everyone will be rushing to St. George the moment they dock in Hamilton.

 

True. Just pointing out that HAL trying to provide free shuttle busses is not quite workable. Many would opt for the free rather than pay for regular transportation.;) Just as a heads up, the bus terminal is a "nice" walk from the cruise ship terminal and mostly uphill so anyone with mobility issues may want to opt for a taxi or the ferry. One more thing, it's advised that people try to avoid the morning and evening rush hours since busses and ferries are crowded with island commuters. School children also use the public busses.

[sail7seas]

Does Bermuda want cruise guests or would they rather not? I can't quite figure if maybe, AS IS THEIR RIGHT, they might be happier if the ships didn't come. (I'm not sure I'd blame them. ;) )

[fann1sh]

Sail, I think the opinions in Bermuda are likely as mixed as they are in Florida. One (self proclaimed) Florida Cracker told me, "We wish y'all would stay home, and just mail us your money."

[ziggypup]

True. Just pointing out that HAL trying to provide free shuttle busses is not quite workable. Many would opt for the free rather than pay for regular transportation.;) Just as a heads up, the bus terminal is a "nice" walk from the cruise ship terminal and mostly uphill so anyone with mobility issues may want to opt for a taxi or the ferry. One more thing, it's advised that people try to avoid the morning and evening rush hours since busses and ferries are crowded with island commuters. School children also use the public busses.

 

I see what you are saying. But they can keep their free bus service. I'll jump on the ferry to St. George at my own pace and glady pay for my own transporatation. At least being docked in Hamilton we are able to do what we want, when we want. It is much better than being stuck on the ship if the tenders aren't running because of rough weather.

[sail7seas]

Fannish........ LOL. :D

 

[RichNY]

Bermuda puts "special" busses on the road all the time..since there are no independent bus companies, the Government is the sole supplier for excursions or whatever..If HAL wants to pay for the bus it would be free..and it will be dockside...not a problem.

 

The Government also runs the ferrys, not just for the tourist but was part of their way of life..I think they know a thing or two about moving people either on water or land..

[iheartbda]

Does Bermuda want cruise guests or would they rather not? I can't quite figure if maybe, AS IS THEIR RIGHT, they might be happier if the ships didn't come. (I'm not sure I'd blame them. ;) )

As fannish says, it's a mixed bag.

There are those who don't want ANY, but there are those who understand what cruisers contribute to the economy. Seems like a big issue with some is the fact that cruisers do not spend the money that fly ins do.....well of course not, we're not paying for a hotel.:p But they also think that we only buy cheap trinkets (my husband wishes;)) and we eat every meal on board so we spend no money in restaurants.

 

The merchants in Hamilton have seen a drop in revenue without the ships docking there that used to and now it's hitting St. George as well. I hate to say it but I have run into a few salespeople that seemed to look down their nose at me. Once I asked for a bottle of lotion...we had just been snorkeling and looked liked drowned rats....the person said, that's $28 DOLLARS! It was like she thought I couldn't or wouldn't buy it. Another time, same store different location but same lotion, I was having 4 bottles coming from the warehouse and I got to the store at 4:50 but the door was already locked. Person inside ignored my knocks but I persisted until she begrudgingly unlocked, let me in and made the sale. Hey, it's a lotion that's discontinued, can't find and I have now bought every bottle that BDA had over the last couple of years.:D

 

I would say those are isolated cases since I've had UNBELIEVABLE experiences as well, like the owner of the grocery store in St. George walking DH all around looking for something in other stores since he didn't have it.

 

This past Oct. I was in one of the jewelry stores on Front St. the day we were leaving. The store was packed, it was hard to get waited on and people were buying. Sometimes it seems that they think we are going to get off the ship and immediately flood the stores. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't go there to shop....it's beach time and touring time. I would love to shop in the evening but alas, the stores are not open. A resident commented that it is not worth their while to be open in the evening...I dunno'? DH is NOT a shopper but one of his favorite things to do in the evening after dinner was to go to Triminghams which would be open.

 

In the end, I think they would like to continue to have ships call, just not too many. Totally understandable since their infrastructure can only support so much.

 

I see what you are saying. But they can keep their free bus service. I'll jump on the ferry to St. George at my own pace and glady pay for my own transporatation. At least being docked in Hamilton we are able to do what we want, when we want. It is much better than being stuck on the ship if the tenders aren't running because of rough weather.

Free is not always better. I would also much prefer to be in Hamilton the whole time since it's centrally located and with a transportation pass good on busses and ferries, we're good to go anywhere.

[iheartbda]

Bermuda puts "special" busses on the road all the time..since there are no independent bus companies, the Government is the sole supplier for excursions or whatever..If HAL wants to pay for the bus it would be free..and it will be dockside...not a problem.

 

The Government also runs the ferrys, not just for the tourist but was part of their way of life..I think they know a thing or two about moving people either on water or land..

Are you saying that the busses would be available at a place other than the bus station? They do not have regular bus stops on Front St. between Court and Queen and there must be a reason, like added congestion, for that so I can't see them allowing specials busses in that area.

 

Too bad they didn't add some special busses when all excursions were cancelled due to the high winds this past Oct.;) The ferries and the busses were all crowded and busses would pass stops since they couldn't fit anyone else on. When a bus would finally stop, people were getting downright nasty, including trash talking, when trying to board.:(