Veendam 'too big' to get into St Georges, Bermuda

[sail7seas]

Wasn't there already a bit of conversation on-going between Bermuda and HAL re: permitting the casino to be opened in the evenings while the ship is docked? This cannot be improving their working relationship.

 

Didn't HAL recently announce the pricing and/or schedule for 2011 cruises to Bermuda? It will be interesting to see if that may now be modified.

 

[ziggypup]

Didn't HAL recently announce the pricing and/or schedule for 2011 cruises to Bermuda? It will be interesting to see if that may now be modified.

 

 

Let's see what happens in 2010 first..............lol.

[sharpasahmarble]

Way to go H.A.L.

Very impressive :(

[bishop84]

Here is what HAL wrote me in response to a email I sent:

 

"Please understand this decision was made by the Bermudan government over safety concerns and Holland America Line was informed we would have to tender. We were as surprised as anyone. This information is less than 48 hours old so expecting some major decision for Holland America Line is just not in the offing. A solution to this difficulty will take some time and a great deal of coordination between the cruise line and the Bermuda government agencies."

 

 

Looks like they are already in damage control mode and blaming the local government. The Bermudan government is not in the cruise ship business, HAL is. They should know what will and not fit far ahead of advertizing it to the general public.

 

How are HAL to blame? They worked out the schedule based on the published information that the Veendam can go to St. Georges and the Bermudan government agreed.

 

Over a year after everything is settled the Bermudan government then state that the Veendam cannot fit and they will have to tender from outside. As HAL states in their reply they were only advised 2 days before and are working on a solution which could one of many from agreeing to tender to changing the itinerary or some other solution. I guess its a case of wait and see what HAL can do to resolve this situation.

[Opinions]

How are HAL to blame? They worked out the schedule based on the published information that the Veendam can go to St. Georges and the Bermudan government agreed.

 

 

It has been well known for many years only certain sized ships can dock in St. George...Who better than HAL knows the size of their ships?...Did they not check navigation charts?...What "published information" did they rely on?...Apparently they didn't check every thing thoroughly or they would have come to the same conclusion as the Bermuda government now has.

[ziggypup]

How are HAL to blame? They worked out the schedule based on the published information that the Veendam can go to St. Georges and the Bermudan government agreed.

 

Over a year after everything is settled the Bermudan government then state that the Veendam cannot fit and they will have to tender from outside. As HAL states in their reply they were only advised 2 days before and are working on a solution which could one of many from agreeing to tender to changing the itinerary or some other solution. I guess its a case of wait and see what HAL can do to resolve this situation.

 

How do you go ahead and advertize a cruise that will be docked without making sure the ship will fit? That determination should have been made way before they started selling Bermuda cruises to dock in St. George. Now it doesn't fit? HAL is in the cruise line business. They should know well ahead of time if the round peg is going to fit in the round hole before they start selling tickets. Come on now.

[sail7seas]

I just had a thought and wonder if we really actually know for sure that any of the "S" ships definitely, postively fit. Anyone know that one of the "S" sisters has docked at St. George's?

 

Is Veendam's refit the problem or would it never have fit?

 

Let's not go making judgment about things we don't know.

 

I have no clue if Veendam would have fit prior but have to think probably.

 

[Opinions]

Is Veendam's refit the problem or would it never have fit?

 

Let's not go making judgment about things we don't know.

 

I have no clue if Veendam would have fit prior but have to think probably.

 

 

I have no clue either...But since we are making judgements. I would have to think probably not.

[ziggypup]

So how did HAL come to the assumption that the ship would fit in the first place? Someone had to yes it woud fit. So if the Bermudan Goverment never said a word then the Veendam would have run a ground on it's first Bermuda cruise in April?

[CtheW0rld]

[MERIDIAN]

Just checked the Veen's BDA itinerary and St.George is now denoted with a TR (tender required.

http://www.hollandamerica.com/find-cruise-vacation/CruiseDetails.action?noOfFlexibleMonths=1&shipCodeSearch=VE&flexibleMonths=false&pageNumber=3&voyageCode=E053

[ziggypup]

Just checked the Veen's BDA itinerary and St.George is now denoted with a TR (tender required.

http://www.hollandamerica.com/find-cruise-vacation/CruiseDetails.action?noOfFlexibleMonths=1&shipCodeSearch=VE&flexibleMonths=false&pageNumber=3&voyageCode=E053

 

They should also have another denotation next to the TR. Something like:

 

SWSUYC (Sorry We Screwed Up Your Cruise)

 

I wonder if the "TR" is going to be the only mention of this situation on their website. Now they can now say we addressed it on our website. :)

[DFD1]

HAL's plans for Veendam to Bermuda were announced before the refit.

 

Veendam would have gone through the cut into St. George's before the refit.

 

Veendam will not go through the cut AFTER the refit because her draft increased as result of the additional weight added in the refit.

 

This is a typical case of the cart before the horse. HAL committed Veendam before they realized her draft had increased to such an extent that she could not longer deliver what they had promised.

 

The refit of Veendam may be remembered as one of HAL's bigger mistakes....for lots of reasons.

 

IMO

[bob brown]

It has been well known for many years only certain sized ships can dock in St. George...Who better than HAL knows the size of their ships?...Did they not check navigation charts?...What "published information" did they rely on?...Apparently they didn't check every thing thoroughly or they would have come to the same conclusion as the Bermuda government now has.

Perhaps the ship actually does fit according to published charts, but the Bermuda authority decided that they wanted a larger margin of clearance to 'play it safe'?

[Vic The Parrot]

I've been on one of those uber-tenders that the island uses, and the procedure was painless. Seen pax in wheelchairs, scooters, etc. get on

and off with no problem.

 

The ships staff, and the crew from the tender were on hand to help everyone.

 

 

But maybe this is a temporary solution. I'm sure the brain trust in Seattle will come up with another plan. IE: an extra day in Hamilton, or a day visit at the RN Dockyard.

 

Whatever the outcome, I'm still going in May.

 

;) :cool:

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

I believe the Dockyard is out. NCL, Celebrity and RCCL are all calling the Dockyard home. Already a thread on the NCL board about people who were undecisive between HAL and NCL now thinking they will go with NCL. We are not cancelling our cruise in August. I would rather tender and spend more time in Bermuda!

[ShipsAreTheBest]

This is an intriguing story, to say the least. Of course, the focus is on HAL (and since it is their ship and cruises they are selling it should be), but there's a little more to the backstory I suspect. First, I love Bermuda. First visted (at age 13) in 1980 on the old ss Rotterdam. Next visit was my honeymoon in 1990, and we've been back many times since. Since we did Veendam to Alaska last summer, am seriously considering her for our 20th anniversary next year.

 

Now, with that background out of the way... A few years ago, I discovered the Royal Gazzette on line (one of Bermuda's newspapers). I look at it fairly frequentlty. What I have noticed, both in recent visits to Bermuda (last in 2007), as well as the news coverage, is that Bermuda has changed a bit. I can't quite put my finger on it, but the government appears to be controversial (a lot more noise now than in the past), and there seems to be more splits in Bermuda among her citizens re: crime, government, tourism, business, development, etc. I think some even question the government's competence rather loudly. Again, I get this from reading. I don't (and since I don't live there, shouldn't) have an opinion.

 

Point is, HAL has to deal with this mess - I suspect they own a large piece of it, but I think the governemnt does too. They control the contracts - they want ships in St. George's. Fact is, there aren't many left sailing US waters small enough to get through Town Cut. Many of the past Bermuda boats that were scheduled to visit had to be occasionally diverted to Hamilton (or anchorage or Dockyard) because of windy conditions on arrival at St. George's. So, simulations were run (did the ship change after the refit? Possibly...) and now they realize she won't fit. Most logcial choice is to just spend the whole time in Hamilton (many years ago, that's what ships did). Bermuda, however, is hell-bent on ships visiting St. George's, so I am sure they are trying to cram the tendering operation down HAL's throat rather than offer the Hamilton-only alternative. The government has been trying to get ships back to both St. Georges and Hamilton for the last year or two, since the big ships could only go to the Dockyard. HAL is one of the few cruise lines left with some medium and small size ships in their fleet and their return to Bermuda next year was seen as just the solution Bermuda was looking for.

[RichNY]

We are booked on the Veendam for Oct 09 and we are big NCL fans, as a matter of fact we just came off the Dawn. Since we don't care to spend all our time at the Dockyard we'll probably be staying with the Veendam.Tendering to St George and being at Hamilton are still much better options..

 

For those of you who are not familiar with St George, several times a season ships cannot get into SG because of wind conditions..so just because you are scheduled to go there it doesn't mean you will dock there.

 

It is interesting to note that in conversations with 2 Sr Crew members on the Dawn, both knew the Veendam was not able to dock in St George because of it size. These conversations were held before it became public...

[sail7seas]

Still wondering if anyone here knows for sure an HAL "S" ship has ever actually made it through Town Cut and docked at St. Georges. Does anyone know that Veendam positively fit prior to her refit?

 

[mamaofami]

We are booked on the Veendam for Oct 09 and we are big NCL fans, as a matter of fact we just came off the Dawn. Since we don't care to spend all our time at the Dockyard we'll probably be staying with the Veendam.Tendering to St George and being at Hamilton are still much better options..

 

Rich, if you show up at the pier in NYC on OCtober 9TH, there will be no Veendam there waiting for you.:) She'll be on her way back from Bermuda.

[RichNY]

rich, if you show up at the pier in nyc on october 9th, there will be no veendam there waiting for you.:) she'll be on her way back from bermuda.

 

oops 10/3/10

[RichNY]

Still wondering if anyone here knows for sure an HAL "S" ship has ever actually made it through Town Cut and docked at St. Georges. Does anyone know that Veendam positively fit prior to her refit?

 

 

 

I was wondering the same thing..:rolleyes:

[Stevedan]

Bring back the Home Lines Homeric!!!!!!!!!!

[jjb415]

I hope this does not mean missing St. Georges. I suppose tenders are in order. Diverting to the Dockyard would not be pleasant. Sailing through the cut is interesting and there used to be the town crier there to welcome ships.

 

It was great to be greeted by the town crier when we arrived on the Azamara Journey in August of 2007 & I would hate to miss St. George if I am able to swing a sailing on the Veendam this summer.

[sharpasahmarble]

Eliminate St. George off the itinerary all together. Make it into a 6 night cruise with 3 nights in Hamilton. This way all partaking won't get screwed out of St. George if the seas are to rough to load the tender and end up get stuck on the ship playing shuffle board.