Veendam 'too big' to get into St Georges, Bermuda

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

When we sailed on the Meridian, which was docked in Kings Warf, they provided free ferry service to Hamilton. Thus, let's say that the Veendam does dock in Hamilton for the duration of our stay, they should provide free ferry service for the two days that we should have been docked in St. Georges. I think this is only fair. I understand that HAL is still considering all its options, and we don't really know what their final solution is. For those who say that dredging is not an option, I believe that if St. Georges is going to survive, it's either dredging, which I know Bermuda doesn't want to do, of for cruise lines to bring smaller ships. Bermuda is a very exclusive Island. Having sailed there on different ships, none of which sailed empty and none of which were a "cheap cruise", I know there is a demand. Something has to give!

[ziggypup]

When we sailed on the Meridian, which was docked in Kings Warf, they provided free ferry service to Hamilton. Thus, let's say that the Veendam does dock in Hamilton for the duration of our stay, they should provide free ferry service for the two days that we should have been docked in St. Georges. I think this is only fair. I understand that HAL is still considering all its options, and we don't really know what their final solution is. For those who say that dredging is not an option, I believe that if St. Georges is going to survive, it's either dredging, which I know Bermuda doesn't want to do, of for cruise lines to bring smaller ships. Bermuda is a very exclusive Island. Having sailed there on different ships, none of which sailed empty and none of which were a "cheap cruise", I know there is a demand. Something has to give!

 

Let's get them to dock in Hamilton first, then we can worry about free ferry service to St. George. LOL

[fann1sh]

I have been in contact with HAL Customer Service to say I will not book if there is tendering, but I will if the ship is docked in Hamilton for 4 days.

 

Holland America Line is committed to providing safe, easy, and accessible accommodations for persons with disabilities and has been rated the Best Overall Facilities for Physically Challenged Passengers by Porthole Cruise Magazine for nine years.

 

The Government of Bermuda has assured Holland America Line that the tender service they will be providing to take our guests into St. George’s is fully accessible. For more information on accessible cruising with Holland America Line, visit www.hollandamerica.com. Guests planning to travel with a wheelchair or scooter should contact our Access and Compliance Department in advance of their cruise at (800) 547-8493.

 

Thanks.

HAL PR (yes, we are "officially" employed at Holland America Line)

 

If HAL is truly committed to accessible travel, they will not tender. Tendering is too difficult, too time consuming, and too potentially dangerous for wheelchair (or otherwise disabled) passengers when large numbers of *unwarned people* are involved.

 

I will be monitoring this board and the HAL website, as well as checking with my travel agent for disclosure by HAL of this vital issue before final payment date for the first Bermuda voyage.

 

All too often in the past HAL Seattle has made unwise decisions, and left it to their wonderful crews and ship masters to simply "deal with it". If Veendam's master and crew are expected to "deal with it" for a few Bermuda voyages so HAL Seattle can see how passengers react, I will have to reconsider my brand loyalty to HAL.

 

If HAL is looking for alternatives to prevent an announcement they do not want to make, perhaps they could get Town Cut simulations performed based on an unmodified "S" ship? Substituting another "S" class ship for Veendam would be disappointing to lanai cabin customers and stern cabin customers. However, I suggest fewer people would be affected that tendering, given the number of HAL pax who rely on canes, walkers, wheelchairs and powered chairs.

 

In my opinion, four days berthed in Hamilton would still give HAL a formidable edge over the competition.

[MERIDIAN]

Peaches,

I hope you made enough for everybody cause I smell it from here! I'd like a rum swizzle or a dark"n"stormy with that.

P.s. I know that little glass jar with the peppers floating around.It's also great on eggs at breakfast time.

[Jade13]

I am glad we canceled this cruise. It is just as easy to fly to Bermuda.

[sail7seas]

I

 

 

 

 

If HAL is looking for alternatives to prevent an announcement they do not want to make, perhaps they could get Town Cut simulations performed based on an unmodified "S" ship? Substituting another "S" class ship for Veendam would be disappointing to lanai cabin customers and stern cabin customers. However, I suggest fewer people would be affected that tendering, given the number of HAL pax who rely on canes, walkers, wheelchairs and powered chairs.

 

In my opinion, four days berthed in Hamilton would still give HAL a formidable edge over the competition.

 

 

Did you consider the guests that are booked on your suggested "substitute 'S' ship" WITH aft pool and suddenly find themselves sailing on a ship they didn't choose........ the modified Veendam?

 

In your scenario, there really wouldn't be fewer people affected?

[MERIDIAN]

Was Veendam's waterline affected by the alteration?

The sponson was supposed to counter her now heavier stern and provide the same balanced hydrodynamic flow before the refit.

Would the Veen fit Pre alteration? Who Knows but I'm looking at the fact that she would be the widest ship to transit the cut.

Was the simulation based on her draft with her tanks full?

Can we lighten her up to equal the NCL Dream's draft? Or is her beam the issue?

If we dumped all of our cash onto a barge before entering the cut (and our smuggled grog) could we squeeze in? LOL!

[ziggypup]

I have been in contact with HAL Customer Service to say I will not book if there is tendering, but I will if the ship is docked in Hamilton for 4 days.

 

If HAL is truly committed to accessible travel, they will not tender. Tendering is too difficult, too time consuming, and too potentially dangerous for wheelchair (or otherwise disabled) passengers when large numbers of *unwarned people* are involved.

 

I will be monitoring this board and the HAL website, as well as checking with my travel agent for disclosure by HAL of this vital issue before final payment date for the first Bermuda voyage.

 

All too often in the past HAL Seattle has made unwise decisions, and left it to their wonderful crews and ship masters to simply "deal with it". If Veendam's master and crew are expected to "deal with it" for a few Bermuda voyages so HAL Seattle can see how passengers react, I will have to reconsider my brand loyalty to HAL.

 

In my opinion, four days berthed in Hamilton would still give HAL a formidable edge over the competition.

 

Well said.

 

If they don't come up with a alternative pier to dock at before final payment, my whole family is going to bail out on the cruise. I'm still willing to go, but I am the minority and also the youngest. As of now, we have 6 cabins booked and more family members were planning on making a reservation.

[ziggypup]

Was Veendam's waterline affected by the alteration?

The sponson was supposed to counter her now heavier stern and provide the same balanced hydrodynamic flow before the refit.

Would the Veen fit Pre alteration? Who Knows but I'm looking at the fact that she would be the widest ship to transit the cut.

Was the simulation based on her draft with her tanks full?

Can we lighten her up to equal the NCL Dream's draft? Or is her beam the issue?

If we dumped all of our cash onto a barge before entering the cut (and our smuggled grog) could we squeeze in? LOL!

 

Maybe if we all go on mandatory diets we can get her weight down. :)

[fann1sh]

Sail, you're right :) and I was wrong.

 

I sure wouldn't want to see Maasdam pulled off her Canada/New England run! :eek: My brain was fixed on Alaska, and therefore Statendam or Ryndam. Aft pool is underused there, and I think the lanai cabins would be welcome. Isn't there always more demand for balconies than availability? (However, a bad blow to people in inside cabins who love the wide open prom deck on regular "S" ships!) Irregardless, it would affect passengers on BOTH ships, something I didn't consider before posting.

 

I do maintain my fallback position: HAL has an obligation to notify booked passengers before final payment date of a *major change* to their cruise expectation. Seattle is only kidding itself if they think tendering is "almost as good".

[sail7seas]

Fannish....... Of course, my mind went immediately to Maasdam when I read your post. She's on the East Coast and the most easily 'swapped'.

 

In any case, it's idle speculation on all our parts. None of know how this will 'shake out' in the end.

 

Thanks for understanding what I was thinking. :)

 

 

[MERIDIAN]

Maybe if we all go on mandatory diets we can get her weight down. :)

 

We'll actually have to eat more food (to lighten the ship) and sweat off the pounds before arrival.When we get to the "cut" we'll all suck in our guts-hold our breath and slip right into St.George-Glenn, Floral Park L.I.

[TPKeller]

Just curious. How long is the tender ride expected to be from the mooring point?

JMHO, but I think this is the wrong question to ask.

 

The more important question is, what is the total tender cycle time?

 

How long it takes the tender to make the run from the ship to the pier is only a fraction of the total time it takes you to get from standing on the ship to standing on the dock.

 

Remember they are talking about loading a 700 passenger ferry/tender, while at anchor, in an unprotected area of open ocean. That is not going to take an insignificant amount of time, and even more when you include assisted mobility devices such as scooters and wheelchairs. Same for unloading, minus the tossing of the gangplank due to the waves.

 

On an entirely speculative note... they mentioned some sort of an "engineering solution", but didn't say what the subject of that solution was to be. I know only what I have read here in this thread about the modifications to the ship... I almost wonder if they are considering some sort of a ballast manipulation scheme that might drop the bow a little, but raise the stern. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

 

With as much attention as this is getting, I bet they are working overtime on it!

 

Theron

[ziggypup]

We'll actually have to eat more food (to lighten the ship) and sweat off the pounds before arrival.When we get to the "cut" we'll all suck in our guts-hold our breath and slip right into St.George-Glenn, Floral Park L.I.

 

Good idea Glenn. LOL

 

Maybe they can have one of those luggage frames like the airlines use to measure carry on luggage. If you can't fit your body through the frame, you can board the ship. :)

 

I just had a thought that is totally off topic. Any chance that the ship will get the SNY network? I don't like the idea of having to go cold turkey for a week without catching a Met game.

 

Since you are so close Glenn, maybe we should rent a skiff and do our own mock Veendam simulation in Oyster Bay harbor with a few bottles of beer. LOL

[ziggypup]

Sail, you're right :) I do maintain my fallback position: HAL has an obligation to notify booked passengers before final payment date of a *major change* to their cruise expectation. Seattle is only kidding itself if they think tendering is "almost as good".

 

I am wondering about the moral obligation from a travel agents point of view. Forget HAL for a moment. I would think that any decent travel agent, especially the ones that specialize in cruises would and should tell their booked customers about the change.

[MERIDIAN]

Good idea Glenn. LOL

 

Maybe they can have one of those luggage frames like the airlines use to measure carry on luggage. If you can't fit your body through the frame, you can board the ship. :)

 

I just had a thought that is totally off topic. Any chance that the ship will get the SNY network? I don't like the idea of having to go cold turkey for a week without catching a Met game.

 

Since you are so close Glenn, maybe we should rent a skiff and do our own mock Veendam simulation in Oyster Bay harbor with a few bottles of beer. LOL

 

Oyster Bay harbour is like 100 x wider than town cut and as far as the Met's are concerned,I thought I saw like 5 or 6 top players on last summers cruise.I'll support the Mets-don't get me wrong but i'll be dam..d if I watch baseball on a cruise.-good night to you fellow Islander!

[ziggypup]

Oyster Bay harbour is like 100 x wider than town cut and as far as the Met's are concerned,I thought I saw like 5 or 6 top players on last summers cruise.I'll support the Mets-don't get me wrong but i'll be dam..d if I watch baseball on a cruise.-good night to you fellow Islander!

 

Anytime is good time to catch a few innings....lol. I'm off to bed also. I have to drive 70 miles upstate to attend a funeral in the morning.

[fann1sh]

I am wondering about the moral obligation from a travel agents point of view. Forget HAL for a moment. I would think that any decent travel agent, especially the ones that specialize in cruises would and should tell their booked customers about the change.

 

I agree. But if it's not on the HAL website, and HAL doesn't notify the TA's, how are they going to find out (until their first pax come home)? I don't think this is anywhere near general knowledge yet, despite a reference in U.S.A. Today (the only non-cruise boards reference I found on Google):

 

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/cruises/item.aspx?type=blog&ak=620003533.blog

 

When I speak of HAL making an announcement, I mean a blanket announcement to all TA's with booked pax (as well as direct contact with those pax who book with HAL without a TA).

 

A notice on the website for pax not yet booked, but considering this cruise, would also be nice.

[bob brown]

Oh yeah; she'd fit no prob but she's committed

Did I read somewhere that HAL plans on retiring the Prinsendam from its fleet in the near future? If so, perhaps they should reconsider and send her to cover this run, once her current commitments are fulfilled. In the meantime, they could use the Veendam with the tendering as planned, or with the extra day at Hamilton, as has been suggested.

[iheartbda]

Did I read somewhere that HAL plans on retiring the Prinsendam from its fleet in the near future? If so, perhaps they should reconsider and send her to cover this run, once her current commitments are fulfilled. In the meantime, they could use the Veendam with the tendering as planned, or with the extra day at Hamilton, as has been suggested.

I'm not very familiar with the HAL fleet but just checked on the Prinsendam's stats....PRINSENDAM - Built 1988 - 37,983 Gross Tons - 793 passengers.

That's QUITE small. Isn't it a general consensus by the cruise lines that the smaller ships are not profitable enough for them? If so, wouldn't the fare have to be increased quite a bit for them to consider, if at all, using the Prinsendam?

 

Rough seas do not generally bother us and more often than not, our cruises to Bermuda have been perfectly smooth or pretty close to it and they've been in Sept/Oct., normally a bit rougher than usual. How would a ship that small handle rough seas? That's always one of the question people ask about cruising to BDA. Being so small, it could turn many off. Even though we prefer the smaller ships, I think we would have to rethink that one.

[Copper10-8]

Did I read somewhere that HAL plans on retiring the Prinsendam from its fleet in the near future? If so, perhaps they should reconsider and send her to cover this run, once her current commitments are fulfilled. In the meantime, they could use the Veendam with the tendering as planned, or with the extra day at Hamilton, as has been suggested.

 

HAL has no plans to retire Prinsendam; they're putting more money (22 new staterooms) into her next month in drydock in Freeport

[JLC@SD]

Veendam 'too big' to get into St Georges, Bermuda

 

 

HAL.....Here's Your Sign.........:D

[ziggypup]

I agree. But if it's not on the HAL website, and HAL doesn't notify the TA's, how are they going to find out (until their first pax come home)? I don't think this is anywhere near general knowledge yet, despite a reference in U.S.A. Today (the only non-cruise boards reference I found on Google):

 

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/cruises/item.aspx?type=blog&ak=620003533.blog

 

When I speak of HAL making an announcement, I mean a blanket announcement to all TA's with booked pax (as well as direct contact with those pax who book with HAL without a TA).

 

A notice on the website for pax not yet booked, but considering this cruise, would also be nice.

 

Well I would think that any agent that stays current in their field would find out through word of mouth. And word travels fast within the industry.

[Flyingfish]

Well, I'm with the unhappy group regarding this situation. We've booked 4 cabins for family looking forward to NO TENDERING. It's so much easier with young children to simply walk off the ship in port. My first instinct is to cancel. However, I'll wait and see how this plays out.

HAL disappointed me with their "butchering" of the Veendam, now this. Who is running the head desk up in Seattle???

[ziggypup]

Well, I'm with the unhappy group regarding this situation. We've booked 4 cabins for family looking forward to NO TENDERING. It's so much easier with young children to simply walk off the ship in port. My first instinct is to cancel. However, I'll wait and see how this plays out.

HAL disappointed me with their "butchering" of the Veendam, now this. Who is running the head desk up in Seattle???

 

Here is what HAL wrote me in response to a email I sent:

 

"Please understand this decision was made by the Bermudan government over safety concerns and Holland America Line was informed we would have to tender. We were as surprised as anyone. This information is less than 48 hours old so expecting some major decision for Holland America Line is just not in the offing. A solution to this difficulty will take some time and a great deal of coordination between the cruise line and the Bermuda government agencies."

 

 

Looks like they are already in damage control mode and blaming the local goverment. The Bermudan goverment is not in the cruise ship business, HAL is. They should know what will and not fit far ahead of advertizing it to the general public.