Veendam 'too big' to get into St Georges, Bermuda

[RichNY]

Are you saying that the busses would be available at a place other than the bus station? They do not have regular bus stops on Front St. between Court and Queen and there must be a reason, like added congestion, for that so I can't see them allowing specials busses in that area.

 

Too bad they didn't add some special busses when all excursions were canceled due to the high winds this past Oct.;) The ferries and the busses were all crowded and busses would pass stops since they couldn't fit anyone else on. When a bus would finally stop, people were getting downright nasty, including trash talking, when trying to board.:(

 

What I am saying is that busses could be available if HAL is willing to charter them and could be available at dockside or wherever they choose...I have see them on Front Street.

[cruisinjudy]

I remember Bermuda being discussed on these boards several years ago and the conclusion at that time was that the S class ships would not fit through the cut.

[Topsham]

Seattle, December 16, 2009 – On Holland America Line’s 2010 Bermuda sailings, the ms Veendam will anchor and tender in to St. George’s on local ferries that carry 700 guests.

 

 

Holland America Line understands that a potential engineering project could eventually solve this issue and believes this would be a very proactive and business-friendly step the Government of Bermuda could take.

 

 

The big problem is that there is only ONE 700 pax tender and turnaround time will be two to three hours per trip. Eg first trip from the ship could be at 8 am and the second trip will be no earlier than 10 am... more lilely 11 am.

 

There is no way Town Cut will be widened due to envrionmentaal concerns.

 

Stephen

[Copper10-8]

The big problem is that there is only ONE 700 pax tender and turnaround time will be two to three hours per trip. Eg first trip from the ship could be at 8 am and the second trip will be no earlier than 10 am... more lilely 11 am.

 

There is no way Town Cut will be widened due to envrionmentaal concerns.

 

Stephen

 

[Topsham]

Hey Capt., Merry Christmas! :)

 

Would this be her?

 

 

 

Merry Xmas John!

 

Yes, this is the BERMUDIAN. We used to have two of them but some twit in Government sold one to Cuba! They are perfect for wheelchairs though.

 

Stephen

[sail7seas]

The big problem is that there is only ONE 700 pax tender and turnaround time will be two to three hours per trip. Eg first trip from the ship could be at 8 am and the second trip will be no earlier than 10 am... more lilely 11 am.

 

There is no way Town Cut will be widened due to envrionmentaal concerns.

 

Stephen

 

 

Stephen:

Not good news about the reality of the tender. I can't imagine if it's rough seas into the bargain.

 

 

Can Maasdam, Statendam or Ryndam make it through the cut?

Is the problem the refit to Veendam or would none of the "S" ships make it?

 

Thanks if you can help us with this.

[Topsham]

Stephen:

Not good news about the reality of the tender. I can't imagine if it's rough seas into the bargain.

 

 

Can Maasdam, Statendam or Ryndam make it through the cut?

Is the problem the refit to Veendam or would none of the "S" ships make it?

 

Thanks if you can help us with this.

 

 

Unaltered S class vessels can make it through Town Cut IF conditions are perfect.... weather wise. Post refit VEENDAM now draws more water and the safety margin is practically nil.

 

Bermuda does want the ship to come and HAL wants the two port concept. Unfortunately the ship is just a tad too big to be able to make it happen.

 

There is only one tender.

 

Best soloution is to proceed directly to Hamilton and visit St Geo by ferry or bus.

 

Stephen

[sail7seas]

Thank you, Stephen. That is what I have been struggling to understand.

 

Yes, docking at Hamilton surely is the best solution. It is fast and easy enough to get to St Geo.... certainly better than the tender as you have shown us.

[Copper10-8]

Merry Xmas John!

 

Yes, this is the BERMUDIAN. We used to have two of them but some twit in Government sold one to Cuba! They are perfect for wheelchairs though.

 

Stephen

 

Great, now Uncle Fidel is floating around on that one in Havana harbor

Merry Xmas Capt!

[mariner]

Seems to be the 54,000 ton elephant in the room.

 

Pretty simple for HAL to solve the problem.

 

Put VEENDAM on another route and plance another S class ship on Bermuda run and everyone is happy.

 

The fact that they're willing to allow passengers to tender is not saying much for customer service when an option is available.

[DFD1]

HAL will likely continue to sell the tender concept for St. Georges then, if possible, revert to Hamilton when the weather turns bad.

 

The problem will come when there is no space at Hamilton.

 

If they have time, they would be better served to switch out Veendam for one of the yet unaltered S class ships and do what they started out to do. That is navigate Town Cut and dock in St. Georges.

 

Otherwise, they have a mess on their hands, IMO.

[sail7seas]

That doesn't solve the problem......

 

You just read Stephen saying the weather conditions have to be perfect for an "S" to make it safely through Town Cut. How often can one count on conditions being perfect? So substitute "S" ship would still either stay docked in Hamilton or would have to tender.

 

When Bermuda has beautiful weather, it is beautiful. Sadly, Bermuda has it's fair share of less than perfect weather.

 

[sapper1]

Great, now Uncle Fidel is floating around on that one in Havana harbor

 

Merry Xmas Capt!

I'll see if I can spot it when I am there in March.

[DFD1]

Sail, I understand that delima, but I believe historically ships have been pretty successful getting through the cut.

 

Of course most of them have not been quite as close to the maximum workable size as are the S class ships.

 

We've been through the cut twice, once in March with the wind blowing like the dickens.

 

Anyway, I hope something can be done because docking in St. Georges is a wonderful way to enjoy that part of the island and St. Georges, while small, is a charming and intimate place to go ashore.

 

When we were last there, the water taxi was just a few steps from the ship. We could board it and be whisked down to Royal Dockyard or Hamilton several times a day. The taxis were fast and fun to ride.

[RichNY]

A few years ago the NCL Dawn used to anchor in Grassy Bay, off Kings Wharf. Does anyone remember how they tendered all those people ????

 

I can't imagine that there will be only one boat available to tender passengers to St George's...I do believe there are spare high speed ferries..

[ziggypup]

I do believe there are spare high speed ferries..

 

That's better than slow speed ferries.

[TPKeller]

We've been through the cut twice, once in March with the wind blowing like the dickens.

It depends on the direction of the wind. If the wind is blowing straight through the cut, it has no affect on the ship, as far as steering goes.

 

Crosswind is a different story. I sailed on RCCL's Empress of the Seas the year she was sold off, and we could not make our planned trip through the cut because of a 35 knot crosswind. We ended up staying the extra day in Hamilton.

 

When you are in a crosswind, just as with an airplane, the ship must steer towards the direction of the wind in order to maintain the planned course. The cut is so narrow, and the ship is so long, that the required vector to keep the ship from being blown into the leeward side would put the nose of the ship against the windward side.

 

In our particular case on Empress, due to the port schedule, we had to move to the dock at the customs area, so we had to tender from the ship, even though we were docked. They would not allow anyone to walk through the customs area. It was not a pleasant experience, even with that short tender ride. They were using two of the ship's regular tenders, and the morning wait to get off the ship was hours, and there was no "hop on, hop off" convenience. You had to make your plans to be ashore all day long.

 

Theron

[sail7seas]

Sail, I understand that delima, but I believe historically ships have been pretty successful getting through the cut.

 

Of course most of them have not been quite as close to the maximum workable size as are the S class ships.

 

We've been through the cut twice, once in March with the wind blowing like the dickens.

 

Anyway, I hope something can be done because docking in St. Georges is a wonderful way to enjoy that part of the island and St. Georges, while small, is a charming and intimate place to go ashore.

 

When we were last there, the water taxi was just a few steps from the ship. We could board it and be whisked down to Royal Dockyard or Hamilton several times a day. The taxis were fast and fun to ride.

 

 

We sailed to Bermuda from New York on Zenith and docked both in Hamilton and St Georges. I agree it was very pleasant being docked there.

[Vic The Parrot]

I have to say ... even if we miss docking in St George's, and end up with an extra day in Hamilton, the trip to the island will still be a pleasurable experience. :cool:

 

 

When I sailed with Home Lines, our ship would only dock in Hamilton, and I used the public transport to get around. So if I wanted a day in St George's, I just hopped on the bus. No problem to it.

 

 

And didn't worry about getting back in time; the ship was there for 3 days, so I could stay anywhere as long as I liked. So come hell, high water, hurricanes ... I'm still going. ;) :D

[Copper10-8]

Pic of the St. Georges Town Cut (so we know of what it is we are discussing here);)

 

[Tamaracboy]

Pic of the St. Georges Town Cut (so we know of what it is we are discussing here);)

 

Great photos grasping as to the subject for which we are now wiser of (?) ;) ;)

I was imagining the cut as much longer.

Thanks.

[TPKeller]

Great photos grasping as to the subject for which we are now wiser of (?) ;) ;)

I was imagining the cut as much longer.

Thanks.

I know I've posted this link here once before, but just to remind everyone, if you pull up my Cruise Map of St. George's, you can zoom in and pan over to the cut and see how long it is, compared to the scale at the bottom left corner of the map. You can also tell by the discolored water that the narrow channel extends out beyond the actual rocks above the surface. Compare the cut in size to the ship that is docked across the harbor.

 

Theron

[Solo1959]

So let me ask... If we are anchored off shore, and have to tender... will the casino be permitted to be open? How about shops on the ship? Cell phone via the ship or land based towers?

[SailBadtheSinner]

Since the cruise ship would be anchored in Bermuda's territorial waters I would think that the casino and shops would be closed. After all, when any cruise ship I was on departed Bermuda, the shops & casino did not open for a few hours after departure.

 

 

 

SBtS

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

Pic of the St. Georges Town Cut (so we know of what it is we are discussing here);)

 

 

For those of us who have sailed through there in different size ships, believe me, it looks a lot smaller in person! LOL