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jbruch

Beware!! Westerdam Capt. Waits for noboby

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An earlier post here (I am not going to go back through all posts to find the one) delineated the costs of a "departed" ship (it is untied) returning to the dock to let a late passenger board. In my quick math, the charges totaled about $30,000 for Aruba, or ~$15 - $20 per passenger, depending on whether there were 1,250 or 2,000. Personally, I wouldn't care to have to ante up another $15 - $20 in an "emergency assessment" myself because someone didn't bother to return on time.

 

I wouldn't care to have my fare increased because HAL routinely accepts late passengers and pays those fees, which is what would happen if ships always waited for late passengers. HAL sponsored shorex usually cost more than similar tours booked independently, and I would infer that those added costs help cover the guarantees to wait if the tour is late, in addition to allowing extra profit of course.

 

I don't cruise as often as many of you (third HAL cruise coming up next Sunday, woo-hoo!), so from the veteran cruisers: does this make sense to you?

 

 

That was post No. 129.. The poster was Bruce Muzz who is a Ships Officer, (not sure if it's HAL) & has worked on hundreds of cruise ships for many different companies..He knows what he is talking about..

Cheers...:)Betty

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True and accurate, you really want true and accurate?? Well here it comes!!!

 

From the Westerdam Cruise Log:

 

Thursday, February 18 2010

Orangestad, Aruba

6:36 a.m. Safely docked

12:00 p.m. Weather: Wind 2knts, partly cloudy sky, 29 C/94 F

4:51 p.m. Undocked

Undocked does not mean departure from the port, it means when the ship is released/cleared by the authorities to leave a port. They have a specific time set by those same authorities that they must leave by or incur additional taxes and fees that WE the passengers YOU are forgetting about must pay!!

 

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE short of a medical emergency, for you not to have been on the ship prior to the 4:30 p.m. All abaoard.

 

For you to have come to these boards and lambast HAL and now us for your lack of timeliness is beyond the pale. You sir, deserve whatever you suffered in worry, headaches and money for your lack of common sense!!

 

By the way, your time line for when you supposedly got to the dock and time of ship sailing is still off!!!

 

You get no sympathy even now from me!!!

 

Joanie "PROUD to be one of the Sheepie's!!"

 

Thanks for this key information in that the ship was "undocked" at 4:51pm.

 

The OP needs to understand that the All Aboard time is the key time. This is no differant than an airplane. If an airplane is scheduled to depart at 5:00pm, you need to be onboard prior to that time as the plane needs to get ready for take off.

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I'm with MNBruce on this one. The OP admitted that he was wrong and I'm pretty sure that he felt bad enough at the time being left behind on shore while his family sailed off into the sunset and his OP reflected the anger that still exists and he vented. God knows I had plenty of thoughts about his being left behind for what was admittedly his own fault but I didn't feel the need to rub salt into the wounds when he was obviously still hyped up about it. Some of the responses on this subject have been far from nice. A bit of compassion would not go amiss. A response somewhere along the lines of we're sorry that you missed your boarding but as you know those are the rules on HAL (and most other cruise lines). I hope that this would not put you off sailing with HAL again, it was an unfortunate and horrible lesson to learn.

 

Lets hope that none of us is ever put in the same or a similar situation as the original OP. I admire his tenacity to come back and respond - he didn't just skulk away and perhaps he responded whilst riled up (after reading some of the less than nice comments). I have taken a back seat on this posting because I felt that given the lack of empathy on here I too would get involved in some less than nice comments (though not to the original OP)

 

Aside from the fact that his holiday was completely ruined who knows what other factors contributed to his anger.

 

My personal message to the OP, I'm sorry your holiday was ruined - you were very unfortunate that time and circumstances meant that captain was unable to stop for you and that must be the hardest way possible to learn of your mistake. I also understand your anger, I hope you'll understand in the long run that with time you will be able to get over this costly mistake and hope that you have some excellent holidays in the future with your family that won't involve such a horrible ending.

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Bruce Muzz who is a Ships Officer, (not sure if it's HAL) & has worked on hundreds of cruise ships for many different companies.
Not HAL currently. I once asked him if he had ever worked on a HAL ship because he knows so much about HAL, but I don't think I ever got an answer. I doubt that he has worked on "hundreds of ships" ... maybe hundreds of cruises. If he changed ships 4 times a year he'd have to work 50 years to be on 200.

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These are two of your contrbutions in this thread. I'll stick with "cold".

 

Don't pick on Ruth. She is just stating the obvious

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Not HAL currently. I once asked him if he had ever worked on a HAL ship because he knows so much about HAL, but I don't think I ever got an answer. I doubt that he has worked on "hundreds of ships" ... maybe hundreds of cruises. If he changed ships 4 times a year he have to work 50 years to be on 200.

 

whoops..:o.My mistake, if I had thought about it I would have said hundreds of cruises..

Thanks for clarifying that..

Cheers....:)Betty..

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I'm with MNBruce on this one. The OP admitted that he was wrong and I'm pretty sure that he felt bad enough at the time being left behind on shore while his family sailed off into the sunset and his OP reflected the anger that still exists and he vented. God knows I had plenty of thoughts about his being left behind for what was admittedly his own fault but I didn't feel the need to rub salt into the wounds when he was obviously still hyped up about it. Some of the responses on this subject have been far from nice. A bit of compassion would not go amiss. A response somewhere along the lines of we're sorry that you missed your boarding but as you know those are the rules on HAL (and most other cruise lines). I hope that this would not put you off sailing with HAL again, it was an unfortunate and horrible lesson to learn.

 

Lets hope that none of us is ever put in the same or a similar situation as the original OP. I admire his tenacity to come back and respond - he didn't just skulk away and perhaps he responded whilst riled up (after reading some of the less than nice comments). I have taken a back seat on this posting because I felt that given the lack of empathy on here I too would get involved in some less than nice comments (though not to the original OP)

 

Aside from the fact that his holiday was completely ruined who knows what other factors contributed to his anger.

 

My personal message to the OP, I'm sorry your holiday was ruined - you were very unfortunate that time and circumstances meant that captain was unable to stop for you and that must be the hardest way possible to learn of your mistake. I also understand your anger, I hope you'll understand in the long run that with time you will be able to get over this costly mistake and hope that you have some excellent holidays in the future with your family that won't involve such a horrible ending.

 

 

If the OP had merely stated that he missed the all aboard, through his own fault, and the ship sailed off without him ... I think he would have had a lot more compassion from people here.

 

You know, along the lines of, "tough break" and "sorry you had your cruise ruined" - that sort of thing.

 

But instead, the OP gave a thumbs down to the Westerdam on his thread topic and in his post accused HAL of terrible customer service, yadda yadda, yadda ... all because HAL did not kowtow to his irresponsibility.

 

With that kind of arrogance, a person is not going to find a lot of sympathy.

 

It's a case of following the rules or suffering the consequences.

 

Don't vilify the cruise line when YOU are the person who flaunted the rules.

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whoops..:o.My mistake, if I had thought about it I would have said hundreds of cruises..

 

Thanks for clarifying that..

 

Cheers....:)Betty..

 

As a matter of fact just last week I came across this post:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=23392612&highlight=#post23392612

 

On the Princess thread he states he is a Hotel Mgr who has for 35 years served on 28 different ships for 8 different companies..

Based on that post I think I know who he is but I'm not positive...;)

Cheers...:)Betty

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Thanks Betty, for the identification of the post, and confirmation of its reliability, given the poster's knowledge and experience.

 

So now even more, I don't feel it is "cold" to not sympathize with the OP. The OP is apparently someone who thinks he is entitled to be careless about time, and let someone else pay the $30,000 bill for his carelessness. I am amazed that someone would feel so entitled, without a shred of regret for the cost and inconvenience he causes others. In fact he feels he was dreadfully wronged, the recipient of poor customer service, because the captain thought of the other 2,000 passengers, the dangers of sailing late in shallow water as the tide goes out, and the $30,000 cost to the company (eventually to be passed on in the form of higher fares) that would be entailed in waiting for one lollygagger. Even after all that is explained, the OP still comes back and claims he is right and we are wrong.

 

That is probably why this thread attracts so much interest and comments. It is so hard for us "sheeple" (who act responsibly and board on time) to believe that someone would be that self-centered, that it seems like it must be a joke.

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So many people on this board act like children. Despite the fact the OP said it was his fault, the first three pages are filled with people practically screaming it was his fault. Did you even read the original post? And the next tack is the 'nerve' of the fellow for assuming the ship should wait for him, when the OP clearly states his issue was that he was there before the ship was actually gone and he would have appreciated having the gangplank lowered.

 

Why does this board consistently have people who respond before reading? It is like watching a bunch of four year olds scream "YOU'RE WRONG" back at each other.

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I'm with MNBruce on this one. The OP admitted that he was wrong and I'm pretty sure that he felt bad enough at the time being left behind on shore while his family sailed off into the sunset and his OP reflected the anger that still exists and he vented. God knows I had plenty of thoughts about his being left behind for what was admittedly his own fault but I didn't feel the need to rub salt into the wounds when he was obviously still hyped up about it. Some of the responses on this subject have been far from nice. A bit of compassion would not go amiss. A response somewhere along the lines of we're sorry that you missed your boarding but as you know those are the rules on HAL (and most other cruise lines). I hope that this would not put you off sailing with HAL again, it was an unfortunate and horrible lesson to learn.

 

Lets hope that none of us is ever put in the same or a similar situation as the original OP. I admire his tenacity to come back and respond - he didn't just skulk away and perhaps he responded whilst riled up (after reading some of the less than nice comments). I have taken a back seat on this posting because I felt that given the lack of empathy on here I too would get involved in some less than nice comments (though not to the original OP)

 

Aside from the fact that his holiday was completely ruined who knows what other factors contributed to his anger.

 

My personal message to the OP, I'm sorry your holiday was ruined - you were very unfortunate that time and circumstances meant that captain was unable to stop for you and that must be the hardest way possible to learn of your mistake. I also understand your anger, I hope you'll understand in the long run that with time you will be able to get over this costly mistake and hope that you have some excellent holidays in the future with your family that won't involve such a horrible ending.

 

I think most posters here are reacting to his:

 

1. Complete and total lack of acknowledgement that there is a definite time difference and meaning between "Be Back on Board by ___" and "Ship Sails at___" . It does not take a whole lot of intelligence to figure out that out.

My 10-year old grand daughter was perfectly capable of explaining it to me when I showed her the gangway sign that one of the other posters had placed on this thread. She said after looking at the sign, "That means I need to be back on the ship by 6:15 'cause the ship is leaving at 7 - right?" Yes, my dear, that is CORRECT. Did I say she is only 10? DUH!!

 

2. Total "rant" on HAL because they left his late butt on shore while his wife & family were on board already! Oh my! Perhaps his wife & kids understood the meaning of "Be on board by 4:30PM" Double "DUH!!"

 

3. Accusations that HAL is guilty of "false advertising" because they had the nerve and audacity to put in their brochure/pamphlet that the ship required everyone to be on board by 4:30PM and would sail at 5:00PM, thereby depriving everyone of 30 minutes of their vacation shore time. I really don't have to go into that one, do I??? :rolleyes:

 

4. Complete lack of understanding that HAL and all cruise lines have much bigger issues to concern themselves with than the tardiness and lack of concern by one passenger. There are 2000+ folks on board, including crew. There are port regulations, weather/tide questions, and monetary concerns that affect the entire cruise ship. And if one passenger is too busy having that last drink, or getting that last picture, or buying just one more souvenir and misses the ship -oh well!

And by the way, that same rule goes for crew members as well, except if they miss the ship, they probably lose their job and have to pay their own way back to their homeland.

 

The lack of empathy is not for the fact that the OP was left - it is in his continuing, silly and incomprehensible ramblings that include name calling, demeaning the Captain, the cruise line, the other passengers, and the posters here. We didn't leave him on shore, and with the exception of one poster, none of us were even on his cruise.

 

If this dude has indeed been on 10 other cruises (maybe..) than he should know the ropes by now, the most basic one being what time to be back on board. And no - he still doesn't get and never will.

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Instead of the very gentle saying of "All Aboard" - the sign should just say "BE ON BOARD BY 4:30PM OR WE LEAVE WITHOUT YOU"

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I think that HAL would take care of anyone at the pier prior to the all-aboard time.

 

I would check with HAL about any private tendering deal. It is not in HAL's interest to encourage people to use private tours.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

this thread got me thinking

What if on a tender port you got to the tender line at 4:15 last tender at 4:30 but the tender was full had to wait for the next one? Ship would wait for you right?

One of the private tours I was on part of their spiel was we never missed a ship and in case of emergency we have a contract with a tender operator So in theory a private tender would take us to the ship ,would HAL charge a fee to get us off the tender and on to the boat?

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Did you even read the original post? ... and he would have appreciated having the gangplank lowered.
And did you read the post that explained that what he "would have appreciated" could have cost many thousands of dollars?

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If the OP had merely stated that he missed the all aboard, through his own fault, and the ship sailed off without him ... I think he would have had a lot more compassion from people here.

 

You know, along the lines of, "tough break" and "sorry you had your cruise ruined" - that sort of thing.

 

But instead, the OP gave a thumbs down to the Westerdam on his thread topic and in his post accused HAL of terrible customer service, yadda yadda, yadda ... all because HAL did not kowtow to his irresponsibility.

 

With that kind of arrogance, a person is not going to find a lot of sympathy.

 

It's a case of following the rules or suffering the consequences.

 

Don't vilify the cruise line when YOU are the person who flaunted the rules.

Bingo!! This is exactly how I feel. There would have been a lot more compassion if the attitude had been along the lines of 'learn from my mistake' rather than 'The Captain should adjust to my late arrival - even if I was wrong by being late - although I wasn't, because the ship left early'.

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So many people on this board act like children. Despite the fact the OP said it was his fault, the first three pages are filled with people practically screaming it was his fault. Did you even read the original post? And the next tack is the 'nerve' of the fellow for assuming the ship should wait for him, when the OP clearly states his issue was that he was there before the ship was actually gone and he would have appreciated having the gangplank lowered.

 

Why does this board consistently have people who respond before reading? It is like watching a bunch of four year olds scream "YOU'RE WRONG" back at each other.

 

I read the first post, and all the subsequent ones, and though the OP did admit he was wrong, he still thought his lateness and large attendant costs of boarding him after departure should have been accommodated. The OP did not just state that "he would have appreciated having the gangplank lowered," instead he lambasted the captain for poor customer service, HAL for "false advertising," and he insulted all the cruisers on that ship and on this board, calling us rude and sheep(le) because we understand the importance of being punctual.

 

I have cruised only twice, far fewer cruises than the OP states he has taken, but I understand that all passengers need to be on board well before "departure" because it takes some time to complete all the necessary steps before the ship actually sails away from the dock.

 

If he had just lamented his missing the ship and stated that he wished the captain could/would have lowered the gangplank so he could board late, I think he would have garnered some sympathy. I would certainly have commiserated with his expensive lesson on the importance of timeliness.

 

Instead, he felt it was everyone else's responsibility to pay the $30,000 cost of his tardiness, and all the other passengers and crew should be endangered by sailing late on a rapidly lowering tide, just so he could be boarded late. And then he calls us names! I think it is the OP who is being childish.

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I'm with MNBruce on this one. The OP admitted that he was wrong and I'm pretty sure that he felt bad enough at the time being left behind on shore while his family sailed off into the sunset and his OP reflected the anger that still exists and he vented. God knows I had plenty of thoughts about his being left behind for what was admittedly his own fault but I didn't feel the need to rub salt into the wounds when he was obviously still hyped up about it. Some of the responses on this subject have been far from nice. A bit of compassion would not go amiss. A response somewhere along the lines of we're sorry that you missed your boarding but as you know those are the rules on HAL (and most other cruise lines). I hope that this would not put you off sailing with HAL again, it was an unfortunate and horrible lesson to learn.

 

Lets hope that none of us is ever put in the same or a similar situation as the original OP. I admire his tenacity to come back and respond - he didn't just skulk away and perhaps he responded whilst riled up (after reading some of the less than nice comments). I have taken a back seat on this posting because I felt that given the lack of empathy on here I too would get involved in some less than nice comments (though not to the original OP)

 

Aside from the fact that his holiday was completely ruined who knows what other factors contributed to his anger.

 

My personal message to the OP, I'm sorry your holiday was ruined - you were very unfortunate that time and circumstances meant that captain was unable to stop for you and that must be the hardest way possible to learn of your mistake. I also understand your anger, I hope you'll understand in the long run that with time you will be able to get over this costly mistake and hope that you have some excellent holidays in the future with your family that won't involve such a horrible ending.

 

Well said! There is a very thin line separating robust debate from incivility, and I fear that the line has been crossed on several occasions by both the OP and some responders.

 

I find the term "sheeple" offensive when applied to those who observe the rules for the sake of the common good. I also agree that the whiff of entitlement exhibited by the OP grates on the nerves whereas if he had offered his sorry experience as a cautionary tale for the benefit of other would have elicited expressions of empathy and compassion. But on the other hand, there is a disturbing tendency, seemingly born out of some über-loyalty, to train the flamethrowers on anybody who expresses any criticism of HAL. If we're all gonna "just get along" as civilized human beings, we have to rein in the emotions.

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So many people on this board act like children. Despite the fact the OP said it was his fault, the first three pages are filled with people practically screaming it was his fault. Did you even read the original post? And the next tack is the 'nerve' of the fellow for assuming the ship should wait for him, when the OP clearly states his issue was that he was there before the ship was actually gone and he would have appreciated having the gangplank lowered.

 

Why does this board consistently have people who respond before reading? It is like watching a bunch of four year olds scream "YOU'RE WRONG" back at each other.

Please read my posts, I was on the ship, on my verandah and amongst the other nearly 2000 passengers can tell you the CORRECT side of what happened.

 

ALSO please read the cost that WE, the passengers on that cruise would have had to pay in order for the Captain to literally re dock by putting the gangway back down for the OP.

 

Would you be willing to pay out of your pocket your portion of $30,000 for one person being late? And then having the nerve to come here and lambast the cruise line for following the guidelines, or whatever of the country we were guests of?

 

So, if I am acting as a 4 year old, so be it!!

 

Joanie

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Well said! There is a very thin line separating robust debate from incivility, and I fear that the line has been crossed on several occasions by both the OP and some responders.

 

I find the term "sheeple" offensive when applied to those who observe the rules for the sake of the common good. I also agree that the whiff of entitlement exhibited by the OP grates on the nerves whereas if he had offered his sorry experience as a cautionary tale for the benefit of other would have elicited expressions of empathy and compassion. But on the other hand, there is a disturbing tendency, seemingly born out of some über-loyalty, to train the flamethrowers on anybody who expresses any criticism of HAL. If we're all gonna "just get along" as civilized human beings, we have to rein in the emotions.

 

Interesting take.

 

I am not one of those HAL cheerleaders, and I do not like the tendency of some to start flaming when it's a matter of opinion. If someone comes here and says the steak was too tough, the water too wet, whatever -- that's a matter of opinion.

 

In this case, it's not opinion - it's fact. The OP did not adhere to HAL's all aboard time, and the ship sailed.

 

We're not being uber-loyal HAL fanatics here - just pointing out that the OP's rampant criticism of HAL is based solely on his irresponsible behavior.

 

I have not seen anything uncivilized posted here.

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Okay, boys & girls, we've learned 2 things:

1) Don't be late for sailaway.

2) If you are late, & you miss the ship, don't vent about it here! (They'll skin you alive.:eek:)

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I'm with MNBruce on this one. The OP admitted that he was wrong and I'm pretty sure that he felt bad enough at the time being left behind on shore while his family sailed off into the sunset and his OP reflected the anger that still exists and he vented. God knows I had plenty of thoughts about his being left behind for what was admittedly his own fault but I didn't feel the need to rub salt into the wounds when he was obviously still hyped up about it. Some of the responses on this subject have been far from nice. A bit of compassion would not go amiss. A response somewhere along the lines of we're sorry that you missed your boarding but as you know those are the rules on HAL (and most other cruise lines). I hope that this would not put you off sailing with HAL again, it was an unfortunate and horrible lesson to learn.

 

Lets hope that none of us is ever put in the same or a similar situation as the original OP. I admire his tenacity to come back and respond - he didn't just skulk away and perhaps he responded whilst riled up (after reading some of the less than nice comments). I have taken a back seat on this posting because I felt that given the lack of empathy on here I too would get involved in some less than nice comments (though not to the original OP)

 

Aside from the fact that his holiday was completely ruined who knows what other factors contributed to his anger.

 

My personal message to the OP, I'm sorry your holiday was ruined - you were very unfortunate that time and circumstances meant that captain was unable to stop for you and that must be the hardest way possible to learn of your mistake. I also understand your anger, I hope you'll understand in the long run that with time you will be able to get over this costly mistake and hope that you have some excellent holidays in the future with your family that won't involve such a horrible ending.

 

 

Very well said.

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And did you read the post that explained that what he "would have appreciated" could have cost many thousands of dollars?

 

I am sorry, did I take a side in the argument? I believe I was noting how the posters in the first three pages obviously didn't read the OP, or if they did their comprehension needs work.

 

I don't know about this $30,000 business and the follow-up IRL_Joanie posted, but the fact remains the people who initially responded to this thread were way overboard.

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I think the lesson is to take responsibility for your actions.

Don't blame others for your failure to comply with regulations.

Don't expect sympathy when you ignore the rules and suffer the consequences - then try to shift the blame.

And don't expect the world to revolve around you.

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