Itinerary change

[Orcrone]

It would be nice to know why the change occurred. However, I find it highly unlikely that HAL purposely inflated the time in port to raise demand for the cruise, knowing full well they were going to change it later. The port time at St. Thomas for my Zuiderdam cruise in March had the ship leaving at 11 PM. It's now sailing at 9 PM. To infer that this change is a "bait and switch" is ridiculous. Aside from which, how many people would book the cruise because of the 11 PM departure, but would have walked away from a 9 PM departure?:rolleyes:

[michmike]

typical HAL apologist responses again to folk's legitimate concerns. Why is it that a person with a complaint is always wrong and HAL is always right?

 

I think the posters were fairly clear that part of the attraction was an unrushed day in St John. Now as to the wedding, well that is a dicey move.. too many things that can go wrong.

 

But we WERE in St Thomas until 11 pm in November on Volendam and that allowed us to spend the morning shopping in St Thomas, to have lunch there, take the ferry to Red Hook, do a nice tour of St John (our first visit) and then have a leisurely dinner at the Banana Tree Grill at Bluebeard's castle, overlooking the lights of the harbor and the city below. Didn't get back to the ship until nearly 9. It was wonderful.

 

AND it was part of the reason we booked that itinerary. I think HAL has been doing this long enough that they should be able to put out a reliable itinerary. Acts of God are another matter, as are mechanical malfunctions. But it seems as if this same thing happened last summer. Surely HAL should have allowed for that?

 

 

Lord save us from the "you couldn't POSSIBLY have been on the same ship I was on" attitude from the HAL faithful everytime someone dares to mention that the emporer has no clothes.

 

this from someone who has cruised on HAL the last 4 times out but has seen the experience diminish in small ways each trip.

[dakrewser]

But we WERE in St Thomas until 11 pm in November on Volendam

 

And that was exactly my point - the ships do, whenever possible, stay with the original itinerary. As I and others stated, it would be best to explain the change - but that's not always possible. And it isn't always because of weather or mechanics, either. Every cruise line wants every ship to stop in St. Thomas - the pax love it's duty-free shopping benefits. There are only a limited number of slots for ships. OTOH, it could be Tortola that presents the problem.

 

So far no one has come up with a plausible explanation of why this change would benefit HAL - it obviosly has PO'ed at least some passengers. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

 

 

You ask: "Why is it that a person with a complaint is always wrong and HAL is always right? " And I answer, they're not. It's simply a matter of what the point being made is, and where the burden of proof lies. I sympathize with those who have to change their plans, I really do. But imputing evil motives to the cruise line does nothing to engender further compassion and tends to get the poster painted as a crank.

 

 

And it is quite possible for two people to have entirely different experiences on the same cruise.

 

So which "HAL apologist " were you talking about?

[Tak8]

I do a cruise partially for the ship and what it has to offer and partially for the itinerary. Although it doesn't affect me, I can see where the longer port stay (till 9 or 11) would be advantageous for some passengers. Most of the popular cruiselines do not stop in the BVI during the summer season. In the past, I have looked at cruises that had longer St. Thomas time with the intent of going to someplace in the BVI. Now that the Z. has Tortola on it's itinerary, it doesn't matter to me, but that's another reason some people may want longer port time. I have read several posts on the St. Thomas board of passengers wanting to go to BVI destinations and they have normally been told that 6pm is too tight, but 9 or 11 would not be a tight schedule.

[Giorgi-one]

 

So far no one has come up with a plausible explanation of why this change would benefit HAL - it obviosly has PO'ed at least some passengers. Perhaps you could enlighten me?QUOTE]

 

 

You must be joking!!! How about 5 more hours of Casino operation and 5 more hours of open shops?

[dakrewser]

You must be joking!!! How about 5 more hours of Casino operation and 5 more hours of open shops?

 

I might be willing to consider that if the itinerary was changed for every cruise. It isn't. How do you explain that?

[Chadzbrew]

A change from 11 pm til 9pm I could deal with and work with, however the change is from 11pm departure to a 6 pm departure. A 5 hour change is significant. I just want HAL to tell the truth. Not only is it a change of time, but a day different altogether. I was lucky enough to cancel and book through Princess on the same day, due to wedding plans. It was cheaper to take the cancellation hit on the cruise than to lose my deposit for photographer, videographer, minister, reception etc...

[shipcafe]

Again, though, what is available in STT to do from 6pm - 11pm? I would be missing out on dinner, shows, etc. on board the ship. I also really enjoy the sunset sailaway from St. Thomas - very impressive with the other ships in port. Sailing at nearly midnight would not provide such an effect.

[Giorgi-one]

I might be willing to consider that if the itinerary was changed for every cruise. It isn't. How do you explain that?

 

I have never been on a cruise (14 of them) where the ship has left port after 6 PM. I have never been on a Europrean cruise and I know they stay later to accomodate sightseeing. Probably would not get too many people booking European/Meditteranean cruises if they left port at 5 PM.

 

I was on the Z last summer and am booked for next summer. St. Thomas departure was changed on both cruises, so as far as I am concerned it is changed for every cruise. Note that I could care less if we leave St. Thomas at 6 PM or 11 PM.

[dakrewser]

 

Good for you. I do hope everything goes smoothly for you. Weddings are hard enough to coordinate when they happen in your home town!

 

I still don't understand the "I just want HAL to tell the truth" line, though. Where were you lied to? Itinerary changes happen all the time on all cruise lines, it's simply the nature of the industry which is at the mercy of both nature and multiple political issues. That may be why cruising isn't everyone's cup of tea. But then (outside of a mug of Lipton's) what is? :)

[michmike]

Again, though, what is available in STT to do from 6pm - 11pm? I would be missing out on dinner, shows, etc. on board the ship. I also really enjoy the sunset sailaway from St. Thomas - very impressive with the other ships in port. Sailing at nearly midnight would not provide such an effect.

 

at least 5 of us on this thread (myself, oliviaonthebeach, chadzbrew, joycruiser and tterryj50) have indicated that being in St Thomas past 6 pm WAS an issue for us. Does that make us wrong? If you chose to be on the ship in the evening for the show and dinner that's fine. As for the sailway enjoy that in another port.

 

Dakrewser - you've been on these boards far longer than me. Surely you've seen it time and again where someone who had a problem or concern with some facet of their cruise with HAL was virtually called a liar.

 

I agree completely with you, that two people can have very different experiences on the same cruise. I just don't understand why when someone does relate such an experience so many others feel compelled to question the veracity of it or to chalk it up to the poster's negative attitude toward life in general; and to opine that he or she went into the trip looking to nitpick and clearly succeded.

[Chadzbrew]

To everyone who has said "What is there to do in ST T. after 6 anyways". It is not what there is to do, it is more of what time do we need to be back on the ship. For those that cant figure out what to do with their time on ST. Thomas here is what we had planned (If we werent planning a wedding). Take Godfrey tour until 4pm then take ferry over to St. John and explore. Take the 9PM ferrry back to the cruise ship. Now we would have to decide whether we wanted to see st. thomas or St. John.

 

On another note

 

I don't think its a stretcth to say that HAL has had problems filling the Zuiderdam. At first all the negative comments from early cruisers, then the feeling from many old time HAL customers that wasn't the ship for them. Look at the prices and you will see what I mean. HAL has had to cut the Z prices significantly on many occassions. People here have noted that they were able to pay so little for a S or SS Suite.

 

So you have a ship that has trouble selling - besides price, what else could HAL do but improve the itinerary. So they offer this great 8am - 11pm port time for St Thomas - advertising it for all unsuspecting potential buyers to see and suck people in. They sure got me - and several others from this thread. That 11pm departure time was the deciding factor in my choice.

 

But then HAL starts not delivering on their promise. They don't tell people until a few weeks before their cruise if that. Some have been told on board - sorry we have an itinerary change.

 

And they don't even change port times in Tortola - still leaving at 5 or 6 - even though a couple of folks on a raft could float from Tortola to St Thomas in the same time overnight it takes HAL to move the 30 miles.

 

This is no simple error or coincedence IMO. HAL knew or should have known there was a problem. Yet they keep doing it.

 

Everyone should stand their ground and not let HAL get away with this. File your complaints with the applicable agencies. Contact HAl and let them know your displeasure over this bait and switch tactic. It is wrong. Just plain wrong.

[dakrewser]

I agree completely with you, that two people can have very different experiences on the same cruise. I just don't understand why when someone does relate such an experience so many others feel compelled to question the veracity of it or to chalk it up to the poster's negative attitude toward life in general; and to opine that he or she went into the trip looking to nitpick and clearly succeded.

 

But I didn't see any of that on this thread. I mean, no one suggested that the itinerary hadn't changed and that the OP was somehow mistaken, right?

 

And I don't think Steve (Shipcafe) was being antagonistic - he really was wondering what there was to do after dark in StT, if anything. Inquiring minds want to know! :rolleyes:

[Oceanwench]

Don't shoot the messenger!

 

I was the OP and copied in the itinerary changes sent to us by our TA ... just to let people know, or to see if anyone had received a similar notice. Didn't mean to start WW III!

 

The change in St. T/Tortotla days has only mildly inconvenienced us as far as plans, and I've taken care of it.

 

I know some people who cruise b/c they want 7 blissful days at sea -- they never get off in the ports. They've been there, done that etc.

I also have friends who cruise b/c of the ports and feel cooped up on sea days! To them, it's all about the adventures they can have in the various ports the ship visits. They plan their cruises by the itineraries offered, not staying with one specific line.

 

So I can understand why some people are disappointed with a change in itinerary -- and some aren't.

 

As far as Michmike's comment on criticism ... I remember once on this board I posted that I'd seen people in jeans in the dining room on the Zui.

I had several people *almost* call me a liar and insist I saw no such thing!

[dakrewser]

As far as Michmike's comment on criticism ... I remember once on this board I posted that I'd seen people in jeans in the dining room on the Zui.

I had several people *almost* call me a liar and insist I saw no such thing!

 

Well, on the Zuiderdam, sure - you're liable to see anything on that ship! :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

<really, just a joke! Nothing to se here folks, move along now......>

[KAKcruiser]

I don't know why HAL changed the itinerary but my guess would be because of the number of ships in St. Thomas. Sometimes it is just too crowded. I don't think they originally planned it this way just to sell the cruise with the intention of changing it after they had enough bookings. I'm sure there was a reason for this change. It would be good if they said what it was to put everyone's mind at ease.

[Golfgrl1911]

I'm only disappointed because I was very excited about getting some great sunset photo's from Paradise Point. I guess I'll just have to move there to get them. That doesn't sound so bad actually! Coral World is looking for a hostess this week according to the St. Thomas on-line classifieds....sounds like a perfect stress free job to me! Nancy

[MandyGirl]

Two things I see (just my opinion):

 

(1) HAL making the same change as last summer for Zui

Regarding threads from last summer along the same topic - here's one thread and another...

Last summer, cruisers were coming back and reporting the port switch here on CC. The switch was not advertised in advance from HAL (no prior emails for booked guests, no update on website - see those threads I linked to see posting dates - there's more but I just linked those two). After weeks and weeks, posters started getting the impression that maybe HAL was swapping ports, yet the HAL website never reflected the swap until much later. Then someone contacted HAL and was lucky enough to get an email reply and share it here on CC. (And eventually others received replies as well - I think they are on those threads) It was well into the summer (July?)- after multiple changed itineraries - that something "official" came from HAL to say "okay - we're switching ports" such as those emails posted in the threads above. Even then, the emails did not match the HAL website itineraries (why?). I, like many, could not understand why HAL would switch ports week after week after week, yet not show the correct itinerary on their website or notify booked passengers - but the communication eventually caught up. As "superstein" stated on those threads linked above, it was a bait and switch in his opinion. HAL Zui seemed to be the only ship sailing from mainland US with such an extended time in St Thomas - a key factor in booking for various cruisers who shared their concerns. We got lucky and our November Zui cruise remained STT followed by Tortola. We were one of those who chose the itinerary over the ship. Yes, I know the fine print on any cruise contract states that ports can change for any reason at any time - but if you know that it's going to change week after week after week... then communicate that change through an effective tool such as your company website (itineraries on HAL's website). HAL dropped the ball with that last summer regarding communicating (in my opinion).

On a positive note, at least this year HAL is communicating the change in advance :) whereas last summer, the communication came much later in the summer after several switched cruises had already taken place. But a change that affects multiple sailings like that for this year - was the decision just made? How recently? Did HAL know they would be making the change again like last year?

(2) Time constraints

What is there to do that people want the later departure time? St John. :)

Hourly ferries back to Red Hook until midnight. Enjoy St John without having to take a 4:00 ferry and get back by 5:30 "last call" for 6:00 departure. Enjoy the beach bar on St John after a day of beach-hopping, where Kenny Chesney has popped in to play some tunes while vacationing in his home there on St John. (Have you heard his new CD?) Rent a dinghy for the day on St John and turn it in by 5:00... then take a later ferry back. Enjoy a sunset at Trunk Bay after the many hundreds of other cruise passengers have already deserted the beach. Share a romantic dinner at Asolare, ZoZo's or Stone Terrace with an awesome view. Have time to hike the Reef Bay trail. Rent a jeep and explore the unbeaten path - and maybe have time to snorkel with hawksbill turtles at Salt Pond Bay south of Coral Bay. "St John Feet, Fins & Four Wheel Drive" by Pam Gaffin has many more tidbits of hiking, jeep trails, and snorkeling that most people tend to miss on a short cruise stop. Immerse yourself in the beautiful laid back culture of St John.

Okay - now I need to go back to St John. Cruising gives passengers a very small taste of an island they may want to return to visit. Land vacations in St Croix (2001) and St John (2002) led to a cruise wedding on St John in 2003. All started by our first visit to the area... on a cruise.

As a side note regarding weddings: cruise weddings are picking up in popularity. Reading the wedding boards here on CruiseCritic, brides/grooms are marrying from a variety of ships on various cruiselines. The only ones who have come back to post a problem with their wedding: those marrying in hurricane season and one who did experience a ship mechanical problem. However, every bride/groom knows the risk, but based on other wedding message boards, that risk has been relatively small... until a cruiseline makes an itinerary change such as this. Still a risk, but there are many, many happy brides (and grooms) sharing stories here on CC's wedding boards. With the advertised port times of 8A-11P... it is very easy to see why someone would choose HAL Zuiderdam and marry in St Thomas or St John. USVI legalities are simple and the beaches that God made are beautiful there. Our families had wondered why we were not marrying at church, but after we took them to St John on a cruise, they understood.

(Sorry it got long...)

[Giorgi-one]

I don't know why HAL changed the itinerary but my guess would be because of the number of ships in St. Thomas. Sometimes it is just too crowded. I don't think they originally planned it this way just to sell the cruise with the intention of changing it after they had enough bookings. I'm sure there was a reason for this change. It would be good if they said what it was to put everyone's mind at ease.

 

If the Z is already docked in St. Thomas, what does the number of ships have to do with leaving at 6 PM or 11 PM?

[tterryj50]

Very good reply Mandy, if this doesn't "enlighten" darkcrewser I give up>

[Golfgrl1911]

It would seem to me that the locals would rather have staggered docking times to eliminate mass cruise passenger business and keep that business a bit more steady. If my ship were to arrive a few hours later and stay later I'd have no qualms about it. But of course I do not work in the cruise industry so I don't profess to understand how it works. :confused:

[dakrewser]

Very good reply Mandy, if this doesn't "enlighten" darkcrewser I give up>

 

Enlighten me about what? I saw those threads the first time around.

 

Is HAL's web site screwed up? Usually.

 

Do itineraries change for various reasons? Sure do.

 

Is this "bait & switch?" Better have good evidence 'cause that's a criminal offense.

 

Did anyone ever actually call HAL to follow up on this? Not that I can see in hundreds of postings.

[Golfgrl1911]

Dave you bring up an interesting point with your last comment. My question is..What would happen if ALL or as many as we could reach with this thread who are affected by this change made complaint calls to HAL about the change? Does anyone think that they would make an attempt to go back to the origional itinerary to appease the customer? Just a thought... Perhaps, as stated before..If HAL had given an explaination as to why consistantly for 2 years they have made this change.. it would be easier to understand. Nancy

[DavidNDC]

I'm going on the Zui May 14, so I've found this thread very interesting. There was one comment posted that caught my eye. I am wondering if anyone can illuminate:

 

The comment:

 

<<I don't think its a stretcth to say that HAL has had problems filling the Zuiderdam. At first all the negative comments from early cruisers, then the feeling from many old time HAL customers that wasn't the ship for them. Look at the prices and you will see what I mean. HAL has had to cut the Z prices significantly on many occassions. People here have noted that they were able to pay so little for a S or SS Suite.>>

 

This has not been my experience. There are three of us paying like $1,100 each for the "semi-suite," I think it is SS. No butler service, no Neptune room, but hey, I don't care. Basically, I think we are getting is a room that is a bit larger than a regular veranda. And this is fine for me -- it really is. But isn't $3,300 kind of a standard rate for this room? It doesn't sound to me like the Zui is exactly starving for passengers.

 

I got a balcony on the NCL Spirit on a five-day cruise for $550 per person, two people. Now THAT was a deal!

[KAKcruiser]

I was under the impression that HAL switched the days on St. Thomas and Tortola in addition to the time difference. That is why I figured they made the change because there were too many ships in port in St. Thomas on the originally scheduled day. When HAL was originally scheduled to go to St. Thomas first, they needed a very short time to sail to Tortola so they could leave late. When they changed the schedule to arrive in Tortola first and St. Thomas next, the earlier departure time from St. Thomas was probably necessary to arrive at the next port (Nassau) on time.