Live from the Brilliance - at 3:45 am all H*** broke loose!

[dirtgirl]

First of all, I apologize right now if I am repeating something or otherwise being annoying, as I have only made it from page one to page 6 of this thread, since I just returned from the Majesty. I promise to go read pages seven through eleven now.

 

 

 

Carol, are you getting the feeling that there is just *something* about Carols and ships that list over?!?!?!?!?!?

 

 

 

 

 

Merely stating a couple of facts:

 

I was on the Crown Princess in July 2006 when she listed over, which a Coast Guard investigation determined was 24 degrees.

 

This list occurred on Day 7 of a 9 night cruise.

 

Within a couple of hours, it was announced that ALL PASSENGERS would receive their ENTIRE cruise fare back, all expenses to get home would be covered, and some people (and this part was done very badly) got 25% off certificates for a future cruise.

 

 

We are the 'Cursed Carols'!!! :p;)

 

But we still always have a good time!:)

[pacificlover]

I wonder if the Captain's use of the word "mistake" was because English was his second language?? In the midst of all the confusion at 2.30am I'm pretty sure my second language skills would suffer

[Seapoint]

In July/August 2003 we were on a Med cruise on the Brilliance. At about 5.30 am, somewhere near the heel of Italy, in calm water, the ship suddenly went into a severe list, and stayed that way for a few minutes!!

 

The captain came on the PA to announce this was not an emergency, and said we had been hit by straight line winds. A few minutes later he again came on the PA, asking all pax to stay in their cabins. Apparently a few had put on their life jackets and gone up on deck!

 

The water from the pool cascaded down the stairs; the main dining room, set for breakfast, became a sea of broken glassware and crockery; TV sets went flying. MDR and pool closed for that day.

 

The point is that it seems a similar event has happened at least twice on the Brilliance. Makes one wonder if the ship has a fundamental design flaw??

[wrp96]

First of all, I apologize right now if I am repeating something or otherwise being annoying, as I have only made it from page one to page 6 of this thread, since I just returned from the Majesty. I promise to go read pages seven through eleven now.

 

 

 

Carol, are you getting the feeling that there is just *something* about Carols and ships that list over?!?!?!?!?!?

 

 

Carol, is it okay for me to admit that I immediately thought of this (and you) when Carol first posted?;)

[Rockfordcruiser]

In July/August 2003 we were on a Med cruise on the Brilliance. At about 5.30 am, somewhere near the heel of Italy, in calm water, the ship suddenly went into a severe list, and stayed that way for a few minutes!!

 

The captain came on the PA to announce this was not an emergency, and said we had been hit by straight line winds. A few minutes later he again came on the PA, asking all pax to stay in their cabins. Apparently a few had put on their life jackets and gone up on deck!

 

The water from the pool cascaded down the stairs; the main dining room, set for breakfast, became a sea of broken glassware and crockery; TV sets went flying. MDR and pool closed for that day.

 

The point is that it seems a similar event has happened at least twice on the Brilliance. Makes one wonder if the ship has a fundamental design flaw??

A design flaw? The ship was in a storm. How does that make one wonder if it's a design flaw? Wow! :rolleyes:

[jad7984]

By the way, Carol - and all others who have commented about some of the snarky, critical and downright MEAN posters on this thread - I went through the same thing when I posted *live* from the Crown Princess list, and continuing afterward.

 

It's the worst of human nature coming out on the Anonymous Internet Message Board - a 21st century disease.:rolleyes: :(

 

Pretty much.

I could not agree more, Carol. Hope you and your family are doing well since the "tilt". :)

[Leejnd4]

Jetdriver, I'm sorry about your two young friends. That is a horrible loss.

 

I'm not really a religious person, but I think the people who are sending their thoughts and prayers to those on the ship are genuine in their sentiments and hope that everyone on board is safe. The reason people come to CC is because of a mutual love of cruising, and this incident on Brilliance is so out of the ordinary that it is of interest to a lot of people. When I come here, I come to get away from the world, and just talk about cruising. I don't think anyone that comes here forgets the rest of the happenings in the world, but we just come here to talk about cruising.

 

Sounds like the events on Brilliance were really scary and I appreciate hearing about them. I am just glad that everyone is ok. It doesn't make me any less concerned about the troops in Iraq, or the events in Sweden yesterday; it just makes me hope that the folks on a ship that I've actually been on are ok. I think that's ok, right?

 

My sentiments exactly. I couldn't say it any better, so I'll just quote this, and say "me too".

[legaljen1969]

Kathy, I agree with you. For an "act of God"- I think giving any reimbursement is generous. However, with the way things sound- perhaps the captain made some mistakes as well where the stabilizers are concerned. So, maybe the "act of God" coupled with human error may make the reimbursement value a little higher. From what I just read- they are getting full refunds.

[flames]

We are the 'Cursed Carols'!!! :p;)

 

But we still always have a good time!:)

 

I have no problem with that, I hope to sail with both of you one day:eek::D

 

Carol:)

[wrp96]

I have no problem with that, I hope to sail with both of you one day:eek::D

 

Carol:)

 

Believe me when I say, you'll have a blast when you do!:p

[Lard Greystoke]

A design flaw? The ship was in a storm. How does that make one wonder if it's a design flaw? Wow! :rolleyes:

 

Because of how it reacted to the storm. Lots of ships suffer lots of bad weather. If a particular ship has repeat problems it's not out of place to speculate. To "wonder" is not to state as fact.

 

I agree with an earlier poster that as ships get more and more built up (overbuilt?) the recipe for disaster may be reached. Adding higher and higher structures generates revenue, but it increases exposure to wind and affects balance.

 

Engineers are paid to compensate for these things, but unless the engineer has the absolute final say, financial considerations may creep in. All it takes is for some Big Man to say "Ah, that event will never happen," and wishful thinking takes precedence over reality.

 

Financial considerations also affect captains' decisions. You can bet that if the captain had skipped Egypt for safety reasons the response would have been 100% negative. We would probably have a thread going right now with people saying "RCI never again, I deserve compensation, my life is ruined," etc.

 

I would imagine that in legal terms RCI doesn't "owe" anybody anything. Most public-event contracts have fine print exempting them from liability for anything up to mass murder. They award compensation because it's good PR and to retain business, and because other cruiselines do it. Rather than say that any cruiseline is "generous" in its compensation, I would say that it's prudent compared to what you know they would like to do, which is hold every passenger upside down by the ankles at the end of the cruise and shake till there's nothing left.

[Darkwolfe]

Dirtgirl- Hey now you have an excuse to come liven up the last Mariner run! It's already going to be rowdy so grab whatever cabin is left and come on!:D

 

All silliness aside, glad that everybody is pretty much safe and the crew seems to have come through shining to take care of everybody!

[Desert Cruizers]

Marion Mom, we were on the BOS in 2004 and during the Capts talk, he spoke of the fact, during the sea trials she had to be able to handle a 45 degree list. We found that amazing and interesting.

[TerriDHair]

I have no problem with that, I hope to sail with both of you one day:eek::D

 

Carol

 

Believe me when I say, you'll have a blast when you do!:p

 

As they will with Carol #3. :D

Carol (The DirtGirl version, lol), I happened to be sitting at my computer when you started this thread and have been following it the entire way. Wow, what an experience! And your attitude about the whole thing is no surprise at all. Bummer about the disco...maybe you'll just have to organize a dance party in another venue, lol! But...yay on the gym being reopened! I can only imagine the withdrawal you have had...stairs are better than nothing but not the same!

Be safe, will look forward to a full report when you're back home. Oh, and I wish Jeff and I could supply Laura with ginger ale in her time of need! ;)

[cruisemainiac]

Who is "they"? 20% of what? 90 Degree? 180 degrees? 20% of 90 degrees which is the angle between the top of the ship and the ocean surface would be at least 18 degrees which is a large list for a ship. I bet in the final analysis it's less than that. I'm not downplaying that it was scary, but unless someone knows for sure they need to be careful what they report as fact. Reports of lists on here have almost always been overdone and end up being a lot less than people perceive while onboard.

 

When the OP says 20%, what is ment and what the Capt. has said is 20 degrees. Of what you ask? Well, when the ship is at the peir and not moving it is at 0 degrees, a center point, think of a stick going straight down through the ship. When the ship moves to one side this imaginarry stick stands perfectly up an down, the the amount that the ship leans from that centerpoint is called list and is measured in degrees from that center point, or stick. If the ship listed 90 degrees it would be laying on its side and not doing well.

A 20 degree list is significant, even more so if you're going from 20 degrees port to 20 degrees to starboard, a 40 degree differance. Think of a treadmill set at maximum incline, that is usually a 15 degree incline. Imagine that 15 degrees or more on a ship that is not only going side to side but forward and back as well. It's easy to see the damage that the ship experianced.

 

It's hard to walk on a ship in heavy seas. An old ski trick can help. When we were challanged to ski on 1 ski with only that on ski touching the snow surface it was almost impossible to do anything more than go straight. We were then allowed to lightly touch our pole tips on the snow, instantly we were making prety good looking turns. We soon became equally comfortable skiing with either foot. I applied this on a rough day on Epic a few weeks ago and as long as I let my hand brush along the wall I could walk with minimum sway. By having that extra point of contact with your hand to a surface, your brain receives needed info to be able to make adjustment to the ships movement, just like having the ski pole touching the snow gave the brain enough info. to be able to ski on 1 ski as well as if you were skiing on 2.

[c-legs]

I wouldn't call it a mistake (and by your quote marks, neither, apparently would you). These ship captains have to skate a knife's edge (or it that sail a storm's edge?) trying to meet their conflicting goals.

 

People who have no knowledge of the seas and sailing (and thank you, USN officer, for your knowledgeable insight) get all huffy and distressed because the captain makes decisions on the basis of years and years of experience and training AND the desires and intentions of the cruise line to meet its schedule and itinerary; trying to balance the safety of the ship, and the desire of the passengers to go (and the cruise line to take them) to various places around the world.

 

Some folks are angry because they missed a port they were counting on; some are angry because the captain tried to MAKE that port in very bad weather. Some are angry because he didn't turn tail and run out to sea where it (might have been) calmer. (Any of y'all have any idea how far he would have had to sail out to sea to get clear of the storm, and how long that would have taken, and if it even could have be done? Thought not.) Some are angry because the captain had to do the seamanship-required thing and slow down in traffic (would y'all would be happier if he went screaming into port and slammed into -- or, more likely, GOT slammed into by -- some other ship?! That would put a crimp in your cruise, eh?) (Can the captain possibly win here?!)

 

Look, the sea is dangerous! There's no way around it. Cruise ships are built at massive cost and with amazing engineering to go into harm's way for the pleasure of their passengers -- who mostly know little or nothing about the dangers of the sea and the requirements of operating a huge ship on a seething, flailing, rogue-wave-bearing 'animal' whose dangers are unknown or ignored or dismissed by folks who know very little about it.

 

That cruise ships manage to so INfrequently get into trouble is an amazing testament to the skill and determination of their captains and crews. That passengers (or worse, onlookers!) who know so little get so bitchy about "insufficient compensation" for being scared -- or knocked around and bruised -- or missing a port (and I don't just mean this cruise, which was certainly terrifying, but it seems to happen on any cruise whenever the sea or the weather interferes with the cruise), is alas unsurprising, but unwarranted.

 

Cruising is NOT a Disneyland ride (even if, yes, the cruiselines often make it sound like it is). The sea will always be dangerous -- and to blame the captain or the cruiseline for skirting the shoals between missing ports and sailing in heavy weather... well, it just doesn't seem reasonable, you know?

 

 

I must down go to the seas again, for the call of the running tide

Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;

And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,

And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.

(from Sea Fever by John Masefield)

VERY WELL EXPRESSED. Thank you for a good realistic and civilized view on all this. Let ''sympathy'' rule here for a while.

Cheers

[c-legs]

Another Black Eye for Royal Caribbean.

 

HUH ????

 

so you ' ll switch to another line now ?? You should;; with both eyes black, RCCL is probably unsafe.....( you Did say ''another '' black eye, right ?? I presume tehy,like all of us, only have two....)

\

DUH!!!

[c-legs]

Looking at the pictures, I have to ask-is this ship identical to the Radiance?

Yes.. Same class, matter of fact, it's called the Radiance class

( Radiance, Jewel,Brilliance,Serenade...the last 3 perhaps not in that order...)

[steamboats]

BTW, the Brilliance has arrived at Malta, check the webcam (it´s moving so you have to wait to get a glimpse).

 

The cursed Carols :D! Maybe I should say that looking back it was a good thing that "only" Merion Mom made it on the Serenade last year :D.

 

steamboats

[beachhousemike]

We have been on many cruises where we have been hit with rogue waves and etc. We have never expected compensation for them. People on this cruise should have been very happy with the 200.00 or 400.00 compensation. But why should they get a free cruise for a 'mistake' that was admittably made. Maybe that was the problem, the captain should have never admitted that a mistake was made!!!!! That is a little extreme. Next thing you know people will want free cruises for not being able to go to a scheduled port because of weather(which has happened to us more than once). People need to suck it up and realize you are on a ship in the middle of the ocean and things happen!!!!

 

Why would you begrudge the passengers this concession? If the cruise line thinks a mistake was made, or even if they just want to keep people happy, what's wrong with that? I'm amazed at all the posts in this thread complaining that people who had a horrible experience are complaining.

 

If Royal Caribbean wants to comp them a cruise, good for them.

[CrusinAgain]

BTW, the Brilliance has arrived at Malta, check the webcam (it´s moving so you have to wait to get a glimpse).

 

The cursed Carols :D! Maybe I should say that looking back it was a good thing that "only" Merion Mom made it on the Serenade last year :D.

 

steamboats

 

Thanks for posting that. Looks like a beautiful day there.

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

 

I hope everyone onboard is safe and sound.

 

I do think RCCL acted swiftly and correctly in this instance by offering a refund.

 

Although obviously the weather is not RCCL's fault, and although it can be debated whether the captain's use of the word "mistake" makes it RCCL's fault, because the effect of the incident left parts of the ship damaged, including passenger cabins, and placed many of the ship's services out of service, the fact of the matter is that RCCL was no longer able to provide passengers with a full cruise experience. Therefore, in my opinion, the refund is absolutely correct.

 

I wonder what percentage of Europeans were onboard (roundtrip cruise from Barcelona). EU law for those passengers would support a full refund in this case, so I wonder if RCCL decided on the refund swiftly so as to treat all passengers equally (the reason I suspect this is that under U.S. practice, cruise lines often give the refund in the form of a free future cruise, while under EU law a refund must be given in cash).

 

In any case, I do think RCCL has acted swiftly and properly in this case.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[nina26best]

Glad to hear the horror is over. Real damage is if you were counting on seeing the Pyramids and will now miss this wonderful experience! We sailed on her in January when she was repositioned from Barcelona to Dubai. The Med was smooth as glass. We were on deck 10; just cannot imagine waves coming that high! Don't even want to think how terrified I'd have been with such severe rolling! I would have needed major drugs! :). Hope the bars are open and drinks are on the house to help settle frayed nerves. And may the rest of your sail be smoooooth.

[Ocean Boy]

A design flaw? The ship was in a storm. How does that make one wonder if it's a design flaw? Wow! :rolleyes:

 

The poster that you quoted mentioned that this happened to them while they were in calm seas. They didn't say anything about a storm. Did you take the time to even read his post? What is wrong with a little speculation. We all do it here every day. He was not presenting anything as fact. Wow!:rolleyes:

 

The issue really is whether these cruise ships with their very high superstructures, which are very different from ocean liners, might not have some issues that the liners of the past did not.

[carabenz]

there are list meters on each bridge wing.