Wages / Employee Benefits of Waiters and Cabin Stewards

[Mr. Luckytoo]

If the job was as rosy and high paying as some on this thread would lead you to believe, you would see some unemployed U.S. citizens take the plunge and sign up to be a room steward or waiter for a term or two.

 

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this topic. After reading the booking "Cruising Confidential - a hit below the waterline" the American who did a contract in the MDR with Carnival had to overcome many, many obstacles in order to get hired.

 

American work some of the longest hours with less vacation than most other industrialized nations. Many Americans work 12+ hours in this country. The biggest difference is that on a cruise ship the pay is better. However when you factor the free room/board/food some of the ships waiters make about what some waiters at Denny's do (working for $2/hr and tips)

[dwjoe]

I have to throw my 2 cents in here......this post is regarding employees from 3rd world countries only I.E. room attendants, bartenders, wait staff primarily....

 

fact....they work extremely hard and very long hours...

 

fact....90% of them make in the upper 10% of wage earners in their home countries...

 

while I do empathise with their condition, they for the most part are treated MUCH better and have MUCH better working conditions than they would be working at home and they are most likely supporting 10 or even more people back home which is a very honorable thing to do.....

 

there is NO REASON to feel sorry for them as they are doing what we all have to do.....earn a living in whatever way we can to support the ones we love.....we only need to be nice and to treat them as human beings, not charity cases or someone who needs our sympathy

 

Tip them as per the guidelines and fill out your comment cards appropriately and that will be that....

 

They will earn a great living and you will receive great service.....

My thoughts exactly! :)

[GE Mom]

This has always been one aspect of cruising that makes me uncomfortable. I can only evaluate the situation based on my own values and experiences. If I had other choices, I would not choose a job that required me to be away from the people I love for months at a time. (This problem is not limited to cruise ship staff. I can look around my community, where there are many immigrants who come here to work for low wages so they can send money back to their families in Mexico, and I feel bad for those people, too. I KNOW they have no other choices.)

 

So I believe that the folks who work on cruise ships must not have other, reasonable choices. I feel bad for the men and women who have not seen their spouses and children for many months, for they must miss them as much as I would.

 

Nobody has to tell me, the choice is to accept the situation as it is or not cruise. But I do feel bad knowing that the relatively low price of my cruise is partly made possible by what I consider to be exploitive labor practices. So I up the tips when it makes sense to do so!

[Shelo]

I am very wary of people who hear horribly sad stories from crew members.

 

I am an American Employment/Labour relations Consultant and have been for 18 years. Through my practice, I can confidently state that the cruise industry is known for questionable human resources practices. Most cruise ships are registered in countries with minimum employment standards and laws which allow companies to offer shockingly low wages and no health care. I have personally worked with more than ten high-level ships officers who left their jobs because they could no longer handle the stress that came from watching other employees be treated badly. When North Americans give up six figure jobs for this reason, something is definitely wrong.

 

You might not have heard these stories while on your vacation because the workers you interact with are in highly coveted positions. Many of them have been promoted to these positions (where tip potential significantly changes their wages) and understandably, want to protect their job. It is the many workers you do not see who are most vulnerable. Some argue that many cruise ship employees are given opportunities far greater than what exists in their home countries. This may be true, but I do not believe it is an excuse for common human resources practices within this industry (where some of the worst documented offences have been by US companies).

 

I am about to go on my first cruise, but only after researching the human resource practices of the company I will be cruising with. This concern will probably keep me from becoming a frequent cruise ship passenger, but I think awareness of these issues is important. I personally do not want to support a company that exploits their employees.

[2SeaWithMe]

I am an American Employment/Labour relations Consultant and have been for 18 years. Through my practice, I can confidently state that the cruise industry is known for questionable human resources practices. Most cruise ships are registered in countries with minimum employment standards and laws which allow companies to offer shockingly low wages and no health care.

 

I am about to go on my first cruise, but only after researching the human resource practices of the company I will be cruising with. This concern will probably keep me from becoming a frequent cruise ship passenger, but I think awareness of these issues is important. I personally do not want to support a company that exploits their employees.

 

 

Honestly, the argument about how poor the working conditions are is a redundant one. Especially because this is a board about cruising...there are things we all have in common here. We're all interested in cruising, researching a cruise, talking about cruising, planning our next cruise, and discussing benefits available to those who cruise multiple times.

 

If the industry standards are corrupt, and you agree with that...than guess what folks- You are the buyers of the blood diamonds. Any purchase in the industry is another dollar towards the "exploitation" of the workers you so vehemently defend. Stand up for your convictions and stop cruising.

 

However, if you believe as many others do-- that workers return voluntarily year after year with the same agencies, enjoy the perks that are available to employees, and find it a significantly better option than anything that would be otherwise available to them in their home country- than there is no need to feel guilty, or to otherwise alleviate that guilt with excessive financial "contributions".

[Shelo]

Honestly, the argument about how poor the working conditions are is a redundant one. Especially because this is a board about cruising...there are things we all have in common here. We're all interested in cruising, researching a cruise, talking about cruising, planning our next cruise, and discussing benefits available to those who cruise multiple times.

 

If the industry standards are corrupt, and you agree with that...than guess what folks- You are the buyers of the blood diamonds. Any purchase in the industry is another dollar towards the "exploitation" of the workers you so vehemently defend. Stand up for your convictions and stop cruising.

 

However, if you believe as many others do-- that workers return voluntarily year after year with the same agencies, enjoy the perks that are available to employees, and find it a significantly better option than anything that would be otherwise available to them in their home country- than there is no need to feel guilty, or to otherwise alleviate that guilt with excessive financial "contributions".

 

 

Exactly- make choices that you are comfortable with. I was simply explaining the basis of my choice and offering a contrary opinion to yours.

 

And for the record- this board is an excellent resource for those of us planning our first cruise.

[2SeaWithMe]

Exactly- make choices that you are comfortable with. I was simply explaining the basis of my choice and offering a contrary opinion to yours.

 

And for the record- this board is an excellent resource for those of us planning our first cruise.

 

It is a great resource, isn't it? Wish I had it before my first cruise.

[BonnieVA]

if you believe as many others do-- that workers return voluntarily year after year with the same agencies, enjoy the perks that are available to employees, and find it a significantly better option than anything that would be otherwise available to them in their home country- than there is no need to feel guilty, or to otherwise alleviate that guilt with excessive financial "contributions".

 

I'm not adding this to support anyone one way or the other BUT I have a very close friend who works on the ships from a country poorer than the US. He chooses to work year after year simply beacuse the pay is better. He said he can easily get a job at home but wants to make more $ on the ships. But I do also think that conditions are less than ideal for these people & that they do deserve better salary & working conditions.

 

So, yes to both angles: they choose to work in these conditions and they should be treated better IMO.

[harryw]

"We're all interested in cruising, researching a cruise, talking about cruising, planning our next cruise, and discussing benefits available to those who cruise multiple times."

 

Yes, but in selecting a cruise line to travel with, some travelers may want to factor in which line has better human resource practices, so this discussion is not irrelevant.

 

Shelo, I hope that to this end, you can point us to resources to find out comparative employee benefits and compensation, and which cruise lines are the most exploitative.

[Wine-O]

My experience in sailing with Celebrity is that 99% of the crew appear to be happy and friendly, love their job, and go out of their way to make my cruise a great experience, and I compensate them appropriately. I could give a rat's ass what they make.

 

I'm sure when you turn on your ipods, iphones, and/or ipads you pause to reflect what kind of chicom sweat shops they were made in? Yeah, right!

[BonnieVA]

I'm not adding this to support anyone one way or the other BUT I have a very close friend who works on the ships from a country poorer than the US. He chooses to work year after year simply beacuse the pay is better. He said he can easily get a job at home but wants to make more $ on the ships. But I do also think that conditions are less than ideal for these people & that they do deserve better salary & working conditions.

 

So, yes to both angles: they choose to work in these conditions and they should be treated better IMO.

 

Forgot to mention that, no, he is not suffering back home. He's pretty much "middle class" in his country. He's crew - not staff or officer.

[lysolqn]

Fifty cruises and we've yet to meet any crew member who ever implied that he/she was dragged kicking and screaming from home under the cover of darkness and forced to work against his/her will on a cruise ship. Nor have we met any crew who have ever implied they were being held in their jobs against their will and not permitted to leave if they so chose. On the other hand, we've met many crew who consider themselves fortunate to be working on a cruise ship for wages that far surpass what they could ever hope to earn at home, and in working conditions likewise far better than they could ever dream of finding at home. Cruise ship employment, from the captain right down to the lowest paid below-the-water-line crew member is employment at will, meaning people take the jobs because they WANT to! And apparently they really, really, really want to or a) there wouldn't be a steady stream of people waiting in long lines at cruise ship employment agencies on several continents around the world and, b) we wouldn't find so many crew members returning to work contract after contract after contract after contract... Sorry, but it's time to stop the violins and chest beating.

[Esprit]

I'm with you Lysoqln

 

As I've mentioned earlier my DD is working on board Constellation at the moment and her 6 month contract finishes in 2 weeks time. They are suddenly a staff member down so she has volunteered to stay on another two weeks in case a replacement can't be found as such short notice. Obviously Celebrity are doing something right with their crew!

 

Peter

[Bridge Maven]

This is just my opinion, but I feel it is condescending to give tips based on perceived need instead of by the level of service provided. It almost implies that they are crew because they are not capable of doing anything better instead of considering the possibility that they had other options and chose to work on a ship.

[Sow There]

This is just my opinion, but I feel it is condescending to give tips based on perceived need instead of by the level of service provided. It almost implies that they are crew because they are not capable of doing anything better instead of considering the possibility that they had other options and chose to work on a ship.

Totally agree. And I agree with the other observations in response to Shelo's post.

 

We enjoy getting into discussions with staff on board and, for example, have learned a lot about Indonesia when sailing on HAL and about Italy when sailing on Princess.

 

The competition for vacancies on board is fierce with long waiting lists of people who would love a job on a ship where room and board are free and the taxation of their wages is either nil or very low.

 

If conditions are so terrible, why do the staff consistently renew their contracts?

 

And offering a tip as a form of sympathy seems out of place to me. If sympathy is a factor, then why not tip the guy in the engine room? Or the ship's laundry?

[redridinghood]

My DD is currently working onboard Constellation and I know what she is paid but it would be totally inappropriate for me to divuldge what it is?

 

What some may not know however is that for UK tax purposes she will have to declare her earnings and suffer UK tax unless she takes on another contract and then is able to claim the Seafarers' earnings deduction due to the length of time she would have then been working outside the UK. A fact that some cruise companies forget to mention!

 

Peter

 

Please get your daughter to contact SK TAX (google them). They specialise in seafarers tax and making sure they get it all back. I used them in the past when i worked on a ship and got all my PAYE back. I just had to go on holiday for 2 weeks to make up my time out of the UK in one year.

[ThursdaysChild]

I wonder how many have taken the time to get to know their servers. If they have they would not be surprised to learn that quite a few have earned advanced degrees. Some come from families that include doctors and engineers.. Most are fluent is considerably more languages than most of the people they are serving,including me. Stereotyping and sweeping generalization often distort the picture. I tip for outstanding service. It is not intended to be a charitable gift, for that would be an insult to the recipient.

 

My server on Solstice in 2009 was a veterinarian from Kosovo who was working to save enough money to pay for the schooling needed in the US to qualify for a license here. Work at home was not sufficient to provide the living he wanted for himself and his wife and future children. The assistant server also held an advanced degree.

 

It's more than a bit of a condescending attitude to believe all ship's staff and crew live in mud huts back home, and that they should be grateful for the little pittance they do getfrom the basic gratuities.

[jcrandle]

While it is appropriate to sympathize with the cruise staff who have left home and family to earn a better living than they could in their own country, we would do a disservice to not acknowledge the members of our various country's armed forces who (for the most part) have voluntarily agreed to leave family and friends to protect and serve those of us who stay comfortably at home.

 

When I was employed, I often had to be away from home, miss birthdays and anniversaries but it was a choice I made to provide for my family. We all make choices to provide housing, food and comforts to our loved ones. In the end, most folks try to do the best they can for their family.

[fleckle]

For young, single people, cruise ship jobs can provide a wonderful opportunity to travel, see the world and meet people from other countries and cultures. On one cruise I got into a lengthy conversation with a woman in her twenties from a small village in Romania. She loved her job working as a bartender, a skill that she quickly came to realize was marketable just about anywhere and could get her a job with any cruise line. She also had the advantage of speaking several languages and being fluent in English, which she had learned in school.

 

Before starting to work on cruise ships, she had never even traveled beyond her neighboring village. She was having a marvelous time. With free room and board provided and no dependents, she could spend her salary and tips on whatever she wanted.

 

Even in the USA most young, single people are not fortunate enough to have parents who give them a trip to Europe for high school graduation. Very few get the opportunity to travel around Europe and the Caribbean, through the Panama Canal, to Alaska and Hawaii and South America and Australia in their twenties as that young woman from Romania had been able to do.

 

Those who start out in the lowest, least desirable jobs, such as assistants to the stateroom attendants, know that they can work their way up and get promoted to better positions if they do their jobs well and are willing to learn.

[derf5585]

And offering a tip as a form of sympathy seems out of place to me. If sympathy is a factor, then why not tip the guy in the engine room? Or the ship's laundry?

 

Another angle on this thread

When filling out the review at the end of the cruise I give special mention to the line handlers, rail cleaners laundry and the like.

[SilkShirt]

Our dining is set for Blu. Will it be a positive or negative for our waiter when we eat some of our meals in the specialty restaurants?

[TravelerThom]

Our dining is set for Blu. Will it be a positive or negative for our waiter when we eat some of our meals in the specialty restaurants?

Blu is open seating [i think that is the case now; it has changed several times], so you will not have the same waiter every time unless you have made a special effort to request this. When I eat at fixed seating in MDR, and have occasionally gone to Specialty Dining I have 1) informed the waiter and tablemates that I will not be there the next evening [so that they do not delay their meal by waiting for me] and 2) not decremented the suggested dining gratuity (this was more of an issue for some people before autotips). I actually lighten the load for the waiter [not through his choice], so I'd say it is therefore a positive unless it hurt his income. The waiter understands that you are on vacation and want to try new things; he won't feel "rejected'.

 

Thom

[TravelerThom]

This is just my opinion, but I feel it is condescending to give tips based on perceived need instead of by the level of service provided. It almost implies that they are crew because they are not capable of doing anything better instead of considering the possibility that they had other options and chose to work on a ship.

I'm just curious. If you went on Azamara [tips are included in the price] would you still tip the same as on Celebrity. How about if your Travel Agent "pre-paid" your gratuities. If you don't tip the same, haven't you in fact perceived that there is less need to do so. I tip on level of service [almost always quite good on every ship I've been on], but also based on the system the ship is operating under; I don't think it is condescending to pay attention to local customs.

 

I'm sure that people had other options that many might consider "better" such as teaching in their local school, but in most cases this is the best paid job the ship employee can get. I have had waiters who had law degrees and dental degrees but were making considerably more money [and better supporting their families] by working on the ship. They work hard, with dignity and they make my cruise pleasant, so I have no problem fairly compensating them [as best that fair compensation can be determined] and also treating them as I would hope to be treated.

 

Even though I disagree with the way that you stated things, I still have the feeling that your treatment and tipping of employees and mine is actually pretty similar, and I wish you pleasant cruises.

 

Thom

[Esprit]

Please get your daughter to contact SK TAX (google them). They specialise in seafarers tax and making sure they get it all back. I used them in the past when i worked on a ship and got all my PAYE back. I just had to go on holiday for 2 weeks to make up my time out of the UK in one year.

 

Thanks for the tip. My DD hasn't suffered any PAYE yet. All gross to date but had she not known she would need to complete another contract then she would find herself with a lot of unexpected tax to pay.

 

As for the ongoing debate about wages, my daughter does have a University degree and the conditions aboard Constellation for the crew are extremely good. They regularly have crew parties and she is always saying how well Celebrity care for their employees.

 

Peter

[Bridge Maven]

I'm just curious. If you went on Azamara [tips are included in the price] would you still tip the same as on Celebrity. How about if your Travel Agent "pre-paid" your gratuities. If you don't tip the same, haven't you in fact perceived that there is less need to do so. I tip on level of service [almost always quite good on every ship I've been on], but also based on the system the ship is operating under; I don't think it is condescending to pay attention to local customs.

 

I'm sure that people had other options that many might consider "better" such as teaching in their local school, but in most cases this is the best paid job the ship employee can get. I have had waiters who had law degrees and dental degrees but were making considerably more money [and better supporting their families] by working on the ship. They work hard, with dignity and they make my cruise pleasant, so I have no problem fairly compensating them [as best that fair compensation can be determined] and also treating them as I would hope to be treated.

 

Even though I disagree with the way that you stated things, I still have the feeling that your treatment and tipping of employees and mine is actually pretty similar, and I wish you pleasant cruises.

 

Thom

 

 

Thom - I have already pre-paid tips for our upcoming Celebrity cruise because we chose Select Dining and have done the same when we did Open Dining on Royal Caribbean. I consider this situation no different than when the recommended guidelines are charged to our account during a cruise. Then if the service warrants it I will give more than the recommended guidelines. I have always been generous with my tips but base them on how well someone does their job, not perceived need.

 

Let me relate a personal situation to illustrate the point I was trying to make. I am now retired but owned a real estate appraisal business for many years. At that time I could have registered with the government as a female owned business to get work based on minority status but never did. That is because I felt I should get business because I do good work not because I was a female owner and I think most people feel the same way.