Wages / Employee Benefits of Waiters and Cabin Stewards

[cynalan]

My feeling is that understanding the industry is a great wake up call to some passengers. Crew are worked to the bone and fed mostly starchy and inexpensive foods. Sometimes I feel badly for some of them and wonder if my cruising contributes to poor labor practices bordering on abuse. Do other cruisers have these thoughts about the industry?

 

One could get into a long-winded sociological debate about "indentured servitude" or labour practices. However, before being too critical let's consider the options that many of these individuals have on their home front. Sadly, slim or none. No one is "forcing" them to work on a cruise ship, it is a choice that they make. Generally, if staff were not happy with their work environment, it would show in the quality of service and enthusiasm displayed in their work. I am pleased to report that the vast majority of staff I've encountered in cruises I've taken have been great - happy, smiling, interested in providing quality service, conscientious. Recognizing the low base wages earned by 100's of people on a ship to ensure that I have a great vacation, I often go out of my way to tip those who exceed the call.

[SrTrPro]

Just returned from 9 nite cruise on the Mercury and will offer my observations.

 

Regarding our room service (steward, asst steward, and butler - sky suite) - these 3 people serviced 21 total staterooms on the port side of the sky deck. With my wife and I in the room, both the steward and butler received a total of $7.00 each day from the standard tipping billed to our account or a total of $63.00 each from the 9 nite cruise. If each room provided just the standard tip and assuming 2 persons per room, both the steward and butler would receive $1323 for the 9 nite cruise. There is no standard tip for the asst. steward and they may or may not receive a portion of the amount designated for the steward.

 

We received outstanding service from all 3 individuals and provided extra cash tips of $30 each to the steward and butler + $15 to the asst. steward. If only 5 rooms (25%) provided an additional $20 to the butler and steward, that would be an additional $100 for the cruise.

 

We also provided extra tips to our waiter & asst. waiter.

 

Given the long working hours, dealing with the occassional inconsiderate guests, I do not begrude them making a good living. As noted, many support families and extended families back home and generally only work 6 to 9 months a year.

[Lsimon]

Pretty much indentured servitude:mad:

 

Of course the big difference here is that they can walk off the ship and go home anytime. No one is forcing them to sign up for the next contract but many of the cruise staff we've met have been doing their jobs for many many years.

 

A common theme is how hard it is to leave their families for long periods of time but that the money they earn on the ships is far greater than what they could earn at home, if they could even find jobs there, and that the rewards are worth the effort and long periods away for them. Most talk of sending money home to support their families on a regular basis.

[BonnieVA]

Add up the cost of rent, food, etc... add that to their income... tax free.... and it's not ALL that BAD.

 

I agree that - comparatively - they make a good salary. Why else would they put up with these jobs if it wasn't good for them? But remember that MANY crew members have wives & children at home who need to be fed, clothed, housed, etc so they are not living rent free.

[Gonzo70]

On both our X cruises and I expect it will be the same in March, we pay cash tips for or to encourage exceptional service. (TIP - To Insure Promptness)

 

 

You "insure" promptness? I have never heard of that. I have heard of people insuring their car, insuring their house, obtaining health insurance and life insurance but I have not heard of anybody insuring the promptness of their service. Is this through your travel insurance? What type of compensation do you receive if the service you receive is not prompt? :confused:

 

FYI it is a myth that TIP = To Insure Promptness. To Ensure Promptness (TEP) would make more sense, but still does not capture the essence of what tipping is about.

[Christine Frances]

There are common inaccurate claims[2] that "tip" (or "tips") is an acronym for a phrase such as "To Insure Prompt Service", "To Insure Proper Service", "To Improve Performance", "To Inspire Promptness" or "To Insure Promptness." These false backronyms contradict the verifiable etymology, as follows.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. The term in the sense of "to give a gratuity" first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning "to give; to hand, pass", which originated in the rogues' cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning "to strike or hit smartly but lightly" (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, "to tap"), but this derivation is "very uncertain".[3]

[dogsrule]

I agree that - comparatively - they make a good salary. Why else would they put up with these jobs if it wasn't good for them? But remember that MANY crew members have wives & children at home who need to be fed, clothed, housed, etc so they are not living rent free.

 

Perhaps if their family is starving?

[We're The Groupnors]

Having grown up listening to stories from a Grandmother who WAS an indentured servant I don't think you can compare this to the situtation on cruise ships. My Grandmother had to work for 5 years for the family who paid her passage, in steerage on an ocean liner, from Scotland. She was given three meals a day, a cot, necessary personal items, a new set of clothes each year, and Sunday morning off (to attend church with the family, but not in their pew). She made no salary, and could have been arrested if she took off prior to her "contract" being fulfilled. Her duties included cooking, cleaning, laundry (not with a washing machine, either), and watching the children. She did it to ultimately have a better life for herself and her offspring. But she knew the arrangements and it was her choice.

 

I am not saying employees on cruise ships have it as well as many of us do in North America and Western Europe, but I'm sure most have it better than they would doing a lot of the jobs they could get at home.

 

As for treating them with respect I woleheartedly agree that this should always be the case. However, as any of us in service industries know, there will always be some people who treat you disrespectfully regardless of your position and where you're from. If all my clients treated me with complete respect 100% of the time I'd be a very happy lady. But they don't, and I still like my job, and it's still my choice to be here. Part of being respectful toward cruise ship employees if respecting their choice to be there.

 

I always give the recommended tips, and tip additionally for above and beyond service.

[Minoushka]

The cost of living for most of the cruise workers is Much lower than ours in their homeland .When an employee brings back about 2000$ a month ,home he is bringing back lots of $$$ which will serve him well.Remember he has no basic expenses on board.All is taken care of for him HOw many of us can claim getting 2000$ per month clear to keep after ALL expenses are covered .food.lodging.medical etc etc I do not think that is all that bad!!!

IMO what we give as required tip is Very adequate..for 2 per day it is 26$

Yes they work hard but I do believe they do OK

 

michele

 

WE met a few going home ...they had gifts GALOre for their families and VERY nice designer shirts etc Believe me they are doing just fine!!!

[Christine Frances]

I think it is the length of the contracts that turn off most North Americans from working on cruise ships. NCL has an all American crew on the Pride of Aloha in Hawaii.

[Gonzo70]

I think it is the length of the contracts that turn off most North Americans from working on cruise ships. NCL has an all American crew on the Pride of Aloha in Hawaii.

 

That is an apples-to-oranges comparison though. The Pride of America is the only large U.S. flagged cruise ship. As such it is subject to U.S. labor laws. The waiters and room stewards on POA have much higher salaries, less work hours, better conditions and many more rights. As one of the requirements of being a U.S. flagged ship, a large portion of the crew is required to be U.S. citizens. It has little to do with the length of the contracts (though that may be a small factor).

[Gonzo70]

That would be because in our country, we have the opportunity and access for every single person to gain an education and have employment.

 

Yes, but currently in the U.S. we have 10% unemployment with many more underemployed or not officially listed as unemployed because they have given up looking for a job. Despite this you do not hear of any U.S. citizens taking jobs on cruise lines as room stewards or waiters. If the job was as rosy and high paying as some on this thread would lead you to believe, you would see some unemployed U.S. citizens take the plunge and sign up to be a room steward or waiter for a term or two.

[lambcom]

Someone earlier on this thread made reference to NCL's Hawaiian ship being staffed by American citizens. It's my understanding that in the first few months, the line went through staff (waiters and cabin crew primarily) like poop through a goose. Simply put, these American folks weren't prepared to do the hard work and put up with the long hours at compensation not too much above minimum wage. The solution (or so I am told): NCL recruited staff from Samoa and Guam, islands with massive unemployment and very low wages where natives are American citizens. Problem solved!

 

While I haven't talked wages with crew on X, I have on HAL and my Indonesian cabin attendant was proud of his job and pointed out that his home in Java is the finest in his village and one of the only ones with electricity and running water and his children are among a very few who will get secondary school education as the result of his earnings. He had been with HAL for 15 years at that point and was planning to be right back at it after his three months off.

 

North Americans too easily compare apples and oranges and draw the wrong conclusions.

 

George +

[Orator]

I wonder how many have taken the time to get to know their servers. If they have they would not be surprised to learn that quite a few have earned advanced degrees. Some come from families that include doctors and engineers.. Most are fluent is considerably more languages than most of the people they are serving,including me. Stereotyping and sweeping generalization often distort the picture. I tip for outstanding service. It is not intended to be a charitable gift, for that would be an insult to the recipient.

[Bridge Maven]

There are many posts on this thread that imply that people become crew aboard a ship because they don't have other options to earn more. While that may be true for some there are a lot of different reasons why people chose to work on a ship. Some do it because it gives them a unique opportunity to see the world. A waiter on one of our cruises told me that he enjoys interacting with passengers because in his country waiters are not allowed to converse with people they serve.

 

There are a lot of people who are more concerned with doing a job they love than having a career that will enable them to earn as much as they possibly can. If everyone made career choices based solely on potential income no one would become a college professor or a physician when you consider the fact that people with a lot less education can earn a lot more than they do.

[juggles]

The cost of living for most of the cruise workers is Much lower than ours in their homeland .When an employee brings back about 2000$ a month ,home he is bringing back lots of $$$ which will serve him well.Remember he has no basic expenses on board.All is taken care of for him HOw many of us can claim getting 2000$ per month clear to keep after ALL expenses are covered .food.lodging.medical etc etc I do not think that is all that bad!!!

IMO what we give as required tip is Very adequate..for 2 per day it is 26$

Yes they work hard but I do believe they do OK

 

michele

 

WE met a few going home ...they had gifts GALOre for their families and VERY nice designer shirts etc Believe me they are doing just fine!!!

 

But they have six months on and then three months off, that money has to go on their rent/food etc till the next contract and the rent has to be paid all year whether they're living in the house or not

[safein]

I find it interesting how we all perceive how others are paid who are from other countries. Many of the ship's crew are employed through different manning agents in their respective countries. They are the ones who set the pay rules, benefits (yes there are benefits that you don't or aren't aware of) transportation for crew members, embarking/disembarking at the beginning/end of the contract, none of which is cheap. If you want, I can give a list of all the unions, associations, insurance, etc. that are monies paid out from salaries that we, the sailing public, aren't aware of.

 

Most of the pay earned is sent home to families or loved ones. I don't know what the rule is on keeping the cash given by passengers as tips, but don't forget there are others, like the cleaners, engine crew, other kitchen staff that we don't pay. Theirs are handled directly through the cruiselines.

 

And for the newbies, I used to work handling all the manning expenses for the ships we owned, so I do know what I am talking about.

 

Anita

[staygulf]

There are common inaccurate claims[2] that "tip" (or "tips") is an acronym for a phrase such as "To Insure Prompt Service", "To Insure Proper Service", "To Improve Performance", "To Inspire Promptness" or "To Insure Promptness." These false backronyms contradict the verifiable etymology, as follows.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word tip originated as a slang term, and its etymology is unclear. The term in the sense of "to give a gratuity" first appeared in the 18th century. It derived from an earlier sense of tip, meaning "to give; to hand, pass", which originated in the rogues' cant in the 17th century. This sense may have derived from the 16th-century tip meaning "to strike or hit smartly but lightly" (which may have derived from the Low German tippen, "to tap"), but this derivation is "very uncertain".[3]

 

The practice of tipping arose in the inns of Europe in the middle ages. There was no system for delivering food to customers who required it with their ale. It had to be ordered from and collected from the kitchen. A custom arose whereby the local poor would wait around to collect food for the rich and take it to their table. They also then served the ale as well. These people became known as "waiters". The rich would pay them a "stipend" literally from the latin a gift in the form of a small coin given away. Over time the word stipend was shortened to tip. In french the word for tip is "pourboire", literally a payment "for the drink", ie for fetching the drink.

[Mr. Luckytoo]

 

I totally agree....we got very close to three staff members in Cagneys on our last cruise. We knew the pay scale was low but I really don't think we understood how much time they were actually working a day until this past cruise. I can't believe how many people want to get out of paying gratuities on a cruise....it just amazes me.:mad:

 

Ever read the book Cruising Confidential? it was written by an American working for Carnival in the early 2000's.

 

After reading that book and seeing it from the perspective of the waiter(s) i have to admit I still treat the waiters/attendants with respect but I no longer worry about 'being their buddy' because all it does is really take away from their duties.

 

In the past I've had conversations about crew members about their country, families, etc., but after reading that book I believe the workers would rather I just say less and leave them alone.

[jcrandle]

While I find it interesting, I also find it meaningless when Parade Magazine publishes their annual list of what people earn. More importantly, is what a willing employee will accept for a contract of X months that specifies the amount of hours per week.

 

Since we all assume, that none of the staff are forced into involuntary servitude, we must assume that the contracted compensation was acceptable to the employee at the time.

 

And, lending more weight to that argument, I expect that many of us when discussing with cruise staff their future plans, have heard that many plan to renew their contract after their furlough. We have heard numerous time the dichotomy of "I miss my family and would like to see them" as well as "If I can do two or three more contracts, I'll be able to ......"

 

I do realize how unfairly blessed I am to have had the opportunities to have a wonderful career, though I also had to spend much more time away from home and family than I would have preferred.

 

I don't believe that I can judge the cost/benefit to someone else to make work/family decisions. In many cases, the sacrifice of the cruise staff may allow an extended family of many to either survive, or to have a more comfortable life. Only the person voluntarily accepting the contract can tell you if the trade off was right.

 

My responsibility is to reward service based on the cruise line's posted tipping schedule. Acceptable service receives the suggested gratuity. Anything above that should be recognized with additional gratuity. If the staff member fulfills their contract to provide service, I (and I assume the cruise line) will fulfill my responsibility. I shouldn't do less, I can't do more!

[islandgirlejfan]

Ever read the book Cruising Confidential? it was written by an American working for Carnival in the early 2000's.

 

After reading that book and seeing it from the perspective of the waiter(s) i have to admit I still treat the waiters/attendants with respect but I no longer worry about 'being their buddy' because all it does is really take away from their duties.

 

In the past I've had conversations about crew members about their country, families, etc., but after reading that book I believe the workers would rather I just say less and leave them alone.

 

I've heard of the book, but never read it. I will clarify my comment as that was probably a poor choice of words. I certainly wouldn't say we were their buddies, however the servers in Cagney's do not change during your week onboard. There are few servers as it's a more intimate setting, so you do get to know your serving staff very well, which is nice because they remember your preferences and dislikes. It's not like we were all hanging out together after their day was over. To be honest, I started to wonder if they ever slept.

 

I always make it a policy to treat others the way that I like to be treated. Just because you can afford the 12K pp stateroom does not give you the right to treat someone as your slave for a week....if you have problems that need to be resolved, bring them up when they happen and not at the end of the cruise because you want the service charge removed.

 

As for our service, nothing short of superior.....and we did tip over and above.

[Minoushka]

I believe all tips have to be shared .If a pax gives a crew member a special tip he is not allowed to keep it HE MUST put it in a pool for ALL to share.That is what I was told Is it true?

[TravelerThom]

A few points of clarification. I agree that tipping is not the norm in China [same as much of the Pacific area], but guides who work with Western tour groups seem quite happy to accept tips [and do rather well at it - our guide for three weeks in China owned a condo in Beijing and a new car (unless he was hoodwinking us into believing he had no need of our money:rolleyes:)].

 

I think the rule on NCL-America [Pride of America] is US nationality OR work visa or Green Card. BTW American Samoans are US Nationals, but are NOT US citizens; residents of other US Outlying Possessions are US citizens. US Nationals do have the right to live and work in the US. This makes little sense to me, but I don't make the laws.

 

While I agree that ship workers have the right to terminate at anytime, they are financially bound to the ship/company since their return ticket home is given only upon completion of their contract.

 

Thanks to all who made this a reasonably civil, informative thread on tipping. Unfortunately not always the norm on CC.

 

Thom

[TravelerThom]

I believe all tips have to be shared .If a pax gives a crew member a special tip he is not allowed to keep it HE MUST put it in a pool for ALL to share.That is what I was told Is it true?

I have heard [and this was before Celebrity went to automatically billed semi-mandatory tips] that on some ships IF the automatic tip was removed by request, then all tips from that individual to waiters and room stewards had to go into the overall tip pool [presumably enforced by loss of job if a "secret (company) cruisers" did this, but the tips were not deposited in the pool]. However if you continued with your automatically billed tips, then any additional monies could be kept by the worker [waiters and stewards do get a list of those who have tips paid via central billing]. Not sure if this is Celebrity's policy or not.

 

Thom

[Bridge Maven]

Before CEO compensation packages became astronomical, there use to be an unofficial rule that the lowest paid employee of a company should earn at least a specified percentage of what the highest paid employee in that company earned. Did cruise lines ever have a similar guideline?