Solstice Jan. 23 Norovirus Numbers

[andilynn1]

Thanks BluenoseCaper for taking the time to let us know what is happening. We are on the Feb 13th sailing and are breathing a sign of relief! Enjoy the rest of your cruise!

Andrea & Chris :)

[Mr. Luckytoo]

WOW you people booked in March are a bunch of worry warts! :p

 

One thing to remember is perspective. How many people are on the ship (guests only) around 2800 right?

 

So if 10% become ill that's 280 meaning that 2,520 people do not get sick! Keep in mind that 10% is a HUGE number. On an average cruise I've read that an estimated 0.5-1.0% of passengers become ill.

 

Now if you are one of that 280 then it would stink big time.

[ashezap]

i am onboard the solstice now. Embarkation was VERY rocky... worst ive ever had on a cruise but I have to be ok with it because I havent seen any signs of illness. people seem to be really enjoying themselves as am I. I was really worried but this ship grew on me fast. fantastic and VERY relaxing. Chill out and enjoy your cruise. I wish i had chilled more! :D

[GRBlizz]

ashezap - I really appreciate your posting, and I promise to do the same next week for the people sailing after us. One question: do you have any advice for how to make the boarding process less frustrating? Our party of four will have two wheelchair users, and I am worried about navigating heavy throngs. We are local, so we could come late in the boarding process if that will help. Any tips if we also have a delayed boarding situation?

[#1grammy]

Thanks Ashezap for helping to relieve my worried mind. I was almost dreading this cruise until you and Bluenose posted about your cruise. Have a great finish to your trip.

[mktt]

Maybe this is why we shouldn't use the term 'Sick Ship' and realize it's us who are sick. Realize the virus can be spread by sharing common items but no matter what some prior posts pressed, we are the ones who bring it on and spread it. That is not a fault-finding - when you get sick in these cases, it isn't 'your fault'.....stuff happens.

 

And this may be the reason you don't see the Line making it easier to cancel out. At least in this instance they appear to have got it under control.

 

Not any fun for those that experienced a very distressful disease and it becomes the main topic of the rest of the cruisers.

 

Hope all enjoy their upcoming cruises. We loved the Solstice.

 

Den

 

So to clarify, you're saying that if a cruise ship has a number of consecutive sailings with GI outbreaks that it's just a coincidence that each sailing had new passengers that brought a bug on board and spread it throughout the passengers and crew?

 

That it is not healthy unsuspecting paying customers entering a closed infected environment with each subsequent sailing? I guess you could argue the customers aren't 100% unsuspecting given that you sometimes get a notice at boarding, however face saving rationalizations and half truths propagated by the cruise lines and their agents ( It's the pax fault, sanitizter spray will keep you healthy, your room is clean when you board etc.) I believe give customers a false sense of security.

 

In case it's not obvious. I disagree with the Stockholm syndrome like attitude that it's our (passengers) own fault if a ship is infected. I read in one of these threads someone suggesting we should not put our hands to our mouths for the duration of our vacation. The thought of spending my vacation stressing about not touching my mouth is absurd. I go on vacation to relax...not to test my survival skills in infectious environments.

 

I believe it's economics and the bottom line that are the main factors. If the cruise lines wanted they could pretty much cut these outbreaks out completely....but it would take $$$ and more crew as well as a rock solid distinction between Tidying, Cleaning and Disinfecting. Unfortunately at this time it's better for business to keep the status quo and train passengers to blame themselves.

 

To be clear this is not a rant on X specifically (although i did notice on my cruises with them that they're very good at tidying, not good at cleaning), it's about how the industry as a whole deals with public health and safety.

[Mr. Luckytoo]

I believe it's economics and the bottom line that are the main factors. If the cruise lines wanted they could pretty much cut these outbreaks out completely....

 

REALLY?

Please tell me how how? I want to know how a cruiseship can STOP infectious outbreaks - seriously.

[Gonzo70]

I read in one of these threads someone suggesting we should not put our hands to our mouths for the duration of our vacation. The thought of spending my vacation stressing about not touching my mouth is absurd. I go on vacation to relax...not to test my survival skills in infectious environments.

 

 

Not putting your hand to your mouth (or to any mucous membrane) is wise advice; not just on a cruise, but anywhere you are in contact with large numbers of people (i.e. at an office, while on public transportation, at a sporting event or concert, at a hotel, at a shopping mall etc.). No matter how frequently and thoroughly a ship (or any business) cleans and disinfects, there is no possible way to even remotely be able to keep up with how fast items become infected (i.e. door knobs, rails, elevator buttons etc.) if someone is sick and out and about.

[Mooregre]

We are on the ship and Celebrity crew has been fabulous! We have not seen or even heard of an outbreak yet.

[GRBlizz]

We are on the ship and Celebrity crew has been fabulous! We have not seen or even heard of an outbreak yet.

 

YAY! Thanks for sharing. We leave for Florida on Friday and will be on Solstice on Sunday!

[Mr. Luckytoo]

Not putting your hand to your mouth (or to any mucous membrane) is wise advice; not just on a cruise, but anywhere you are in contact with large numbers of people (i.e. at an office, while on public transportation, at a sporting event or concert, at a hotel, at a shopping mall etc.). No matter how frequently and thoroughly a ship (or any business) cleans and disinfects, there is no possible way to even remotely be able to keep up with how fast items become infected (i.e. door knobs, rails, elevator buttons etc.) if someone is sick and out and about.

 

Excellent advice but it's not just the mouth: eyes, nose or any break in the skin act as an entry for bacteria and virus's.

 

As for cleaning/disinfection - cruise ships do a MUCH better job than:

 

Airlines, buses, trains, stadiums, SCHOOLS, etc.,

[npb]

mktt, I don't think cruising is for you.

 

How would a ship get sick by itself?? It is inconsiderate people who spread the virus by refusing to stay in their cabins.

 

It seems from reading all the threads regarding this outbreak that experienced cruisers have a very different attitude than those who are new to cruising. I can understand their disappointment with the situation but I also think that their expectations far exceed the real world. The Love Boat was a TV show, not the real world where stuff happens.

[S&G@C]

ashezap - I really appreciate your posting, and I promise to do the same next week for the people sailing after us. One question: do you have any advice for how to make the boarding process less frustrating? Our party of four will have two wheelchair users, and I am worried about navigating heavy throngs. We are local, so we could come late in the boarding process if that will help. Any tips if we also have a delayed boarding situation?

 

We sail the 20th...looking forward to your upcoming post...hope embarkation will go quickly for you...thanks

[phoenix_dream]

mktt, I don't think cruising is for you.

 

How would a ship get sick by itself?? It is inconsiderate people who spread the virus by refusing to stay in their cabins.

 

It seems from reading all the threads regarding this outbreak that experienced cruisers have a very different attitude than those who are new to cruising. I can understand their disappointment with the situation but I also think that their expectations far exceed the real world. The Love Boat was a TV show, not the real world where stuff happens.

I agree that it is not the fault of the ship. But I don't necessarily agree that it is spread just by 'inconsiderate people'. True, sometimes people are sick and don't isolate themselves and shame on them in this case. But often people are infected but just don't know it yet. They can't prevent what they don't yet realize. Also, the virus sheds for up to 14 days after symptoms stop, and the CDC does not know yet if that means they are infectious for all 14 days, or for just the 3 days or so. If people are in fact infectious for more than 3 days (and truthfully, how many people will self-isolate for even 3 full days??), then they could be inadvertently spreading the virus.

[MEcruzr]

We sail the 20th...looking forward to your upcoming post...hope embarkation will go quickly for you...thanks

 

S&G@C.... haven't seen you on the roll call for the 20th, come on over and say hello~

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1193051

[rvlandandsea]

thank you all for the information...we will be sailing this Sunday...already in Miami...just waiting to see what time to drive to the pier...weather is warm with a few rainfalls in the evening...the forecast is good for Sunday

[Mr. Luckytoo]

I agree that it is not the fault of the ship. But I don't necessarily agree that it is spread just by 'inconsiderate people'. True, sometimes people are sick and don't isolate themselves and shame on them in this case. But often people are infected but just don't know it yet. They can't prevent what they don't yet realize. Also, the virus sheds for up to 14 days after symptoms stop, and the CDC does not know yet if that means they are infectious for all 14 days, or for just the 3 days or so. If people are in fact infectious for more than 3 days (and truthfully, how many people will self-isolate for even 3 full days??), then they could be inadvertently spreading the virus.

 

Phoenix - the problem with any time of highly infectious disease - heck even the common cold - is this; many people are infectious but don't think they are. If a person 'feels sick' the ideal thing is to isolate themselves but if you are on a vacation how many want to spend 4-5 days isolated in their cabins? Not many.

 

In the case of noro it is classified by projectile vommiting and uncontrolled diarrhea - that's what makes getting noro so bad. In the case of the rhino virus (common cold) you have congestion, coughing, fever, malaise (you all know...) but how many people who display those symptoms come into the workplace?

 

The SHIP isn't sick - the ship isn't causing the illnesses. An example of a sick building: asbestos contamination or Legionaires diseae (in the AC units). The ship isn't causing the illnesses - it isn't a sick ship.

[bighairtexan]

Phoenix - the problem with any time of highly infectious disease - heck even the common cold - is this; many people are infectious but don't think they are. If a person 'feels sick' the ideal thing is to isolate themselves but if you are on a vacation how many want to spend 4-5 days isolated in their cabins? Not many.

 

In the case of noro it is classified by projectile vommiting and uncontrolled diarrhea - that's what makes getting noro so bad. In the case of the rhino virus (common cold) you have congestion, coughing, fever, malaise (you all know...) but how many people who display those symptoms come into the workplace?

 

The SHIP isn't sick - the ship isn't causing the illnesses. An example of a sick building: asbestos contamination or Legionaires diseae (in the AC units). The ship isn't causing the illnesses - it isn't a sick ship.

 

Not a sick ship. Sick people that get sick from other sick people. The ship didn't spontaneously develop noro. Passengers (and possibly crew) either brought it on board on embarkation or came in contact w/ it at an early port and brought it with them. Not purposely or maliciously. Stuff happens. And yes it's happened to me at a very high end all inclusive. Really messed up 3 days of my 6 day vacation, but oh well. The resort didn't cause it. I just had the bad luck of contracting it there.

[phoenix_dream]

Phoenix - the problem with any time of highly infectious disease - heck even the common cold - is this; many people are infectious but don't think they are. If a person 'feels sick' the ideal thing is to isolate themselves but if you are on a vacation how many want to spend 4-5 days isolated in their cabins? Not many.

 

In the case of noro it is classified by projectile vommiting and uncontrolled diarrhea - that's what makes getting noro so bad. In the case of the rhino virus (common cold) you have congestion, coughing, fever, malaise (you all know...) but how many people who display those symptoms come into the workplace?

 

The SHIP isn't sick - the ship isn't causing the illnesses. An example of a sick building: asbestos contamination or Legionaires diseae (in the AC units). The ship isn't causing the illnesses - it isn't a sick ship.

Don't disagree. My main point in responding is that in addition to people who don't feel well and walk all over the ship anyway, there are a good number of people at any given time who may have the virus in their system but don't yet know it. Or - they have already spent a couple days in their room and now feel fine, but may in fact be spreading the disease anyway. If even the CDC doesn't know for sure how long people are contagious certainly a passenger can't know (once they feel fine that is). These particular passengers are not inconsiderate, but may be spreading the virus anyway.

[MEcruzr]

"These particular passengers are not inconsiderate, but may be spreading the virus anyway."

 

Exactly. The CDC says the virus is shed for three days after the symptoms go away... so a person who has "recovered" will continue to spread the virus. They also say people shed the virus for up to 2 weeks, but it's unknown if it causes illness in others after three days post symptom.

[kimanjo]

A couple of years ago, during a particularly bad outbreak on multiple ships, these boards were very active with posting of ALL sorts.

 

I recall one specific poster who proudly announced that they NEVER washed their hands, as that would wash away the "good" germs which they needed???? We are not talking about the hand sanitizers. Good old fashioned hand washing.

 

I read that thinking can they be serious, until...

 

Last March I was on the Summit and had played an active game of Ping Pong. Had too much water at dinner, and could'nt wait to use the bathroom in my cabin, so I used the closest public one.

 

As I was washing my hands, out from a stall walked a woman after finishing her business, and walked straight out, NOT stopping to wash!

 

I was pretty careful before, but that is stuck in my mind and now am even more aware.

 

I am sure that it is a very small percentage of "non-hand washers", but they are still there, possibly passing along who knows what.

 

This does not stop me from cruising (have a Equinox Med planned for June) but it makes me much more aware and careful.

[2blueyam]

The "no hand washing after using the restroom" is a bit scary. If there is a door on a restroom, I usually try to use my paper towel that I dried my hands with to open it. Then I keep it open with my foot and throw the towel away if the trash can is close enough to the door. If the trash can is too far from the door, I just take the towel with me any throw it away in the nearest trash can. I don't do this just for cruising, but for any public restroom including my workplace.

[NLH Arizona]

I too have noticed passengers not washing their hands after using the restrooms. I usually say something like “that is so gross” as they walk out the door, but I’m sure these kind of people really don’t care. I love what Crystal does - they have small paper towel dispensers right at the doors with a trash can, so that you can take one of these small paper towels and open the door and drop it in the trash as you leave. I also take wipes to the casino and wipe off the machine before I use it.

 

What scared me is when a couple of posters said that passengers threw up in common areas, like the dining room. It is totally disgusting that someone would come down to the dining room that sick and infect others around them; not to mention ruin other’s dining experience (if that happended near me, I would have to leave the dining room - there is no way I could eat after that).

[aliasyoshi]

Sorry if anything like this has been posted, but I did not read all 7 pages.

 

We were on the 1/9-1/16 cruise on Solstice and my dad ended up with (most likely) noro on the last night. Not sure if any others did since it was the last day. Also not sure how he got it, but my guess is something from the Oceanview Cafe on Saturday lunch. (Maybe, maybe not).

 

Also, anti-bacterial wipes or sanitizer will do nothing for noro since it is a virus. :D

[Gonzo70]

S

 

Also, anti-bacterial wipes or sanitizer will do nothing for noro since it is a virus. :D

 

Sure they do; many antibacterial wipes have sufficient alcohol concentration that they are effective against many viruses as well. There are plenty of hand sanitizers that are effective against noro; even the CDC recommends they be used. Washing with soap and warm/hot water is generally better, but hand sanitizers are useful as well.