Celebrity dumps disabled man on island.

[etoile]

Don't forget that the OP could have flown a family member to the ship or one of his many friends that he had made thru the years via his high ranking position with the ADA. That was another option. Or he could possibly have persuaded one of the passengers to help out. So this would have cost him much less than a private nurse. My suspicion is that his wife just didn't want to go- unless she was terminally ill. And I seriously doubt this or he wouldn't or shouldn't have left her home in the first place.

So the whole thing sounds like no one wanted to travel with him given the type of cruise it was. None of my friends would have any interest in a nude cruise- I did poll 3 or them ages 30, 47 and 63 and their reactions were disbelief and one used to dance on NCL as a paid employee and he had never even heard of nude cruises. In fact, he literally fell over and said "that's disgusting" when I asked him about it. So even though people say "Cest L' Vie" Let live and let live... ask yourself if you would want to spend your vacation on a nude cruise.

 

Just want to note - the ADA is the Americans with Disabilities Act. It is a law, not a government department or anything like that. He was employed by the Multiple Sclerosis International Federation, and I'm sure he made friends there like most people do at work, but I don't think we know that he was "high ranking" there.

 

Would you PLEASE leave the part that it's a nude cruise out of it? It has NO relevance to the case. We all understand that you find such an idea abhorrent, you have said it REPEATEDLY on just about every page of this thread. What your friends think of nude cruises is irrelevant. What I think of nude cruises is irrelevant. You keep pressing on this issue and now you're claiming "no one wanted to travel with him" which you have ZERO facts to prove. Just because you and your friends don't like it doesn't mean others don't. The Century holds nearly 1800 pax. Most full-ship charters do sail full. So obviously 1800 people - whom you have never met - like the idea. It has NO RELEVANCE to him being kicked off, it has NO RELEVANCE to why he didn't bring a companion. You are making yourself out to be a horrible, rude person by continuing to focus on the subject. JUST DROP IT.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

I was being a bit sarcastic.... the fact is that his lawyer is crying foul. This is the same lawyer that represented the ADA in the Northwest lawsuit. So my question is this... he is very well connected with the ADA and he obviously has a wife and presumably colleagues and people he has known well over the years.

 

When his wife cancelled he was given the option of bringing someone else- even if it meant that he would possibly have to pay their way at the last minute. This was one option available to him. Either no one wanted to go on this type of cruise (which I HIGHLY suspect) or all these people that supposedly care about him with the ADA could have done the kind thing and flown there to assist him.

 

It sounds to me as though he just wasn't thinking clearly and when his wife took "ill" he should have scrapped the cruise.

 

As to his condition, I would never make fun of a handicapped person's condition but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be critical of the things that he does have control over.

[etoile]

So instead he had to pay for a flight to Miami. BTW American Airlines serves Basse Terre airport with non-stop flights to/from MIA. That might have required an overnight in Guadeloupe before the flight. But a better option than hanging out in Haiti IMHO.

 

Then again after bringing suit against an airline in the past could it be possible that he's on a "no fly" list with other US based airlines??

 

Charlie

 

Whoa wait, what evidence is there that he flew out of BBR? I was assuming PTP. Isn't PTP the main international airport there? Have I missed an article saying he flew out of BBR?

[madelinerose]

Would you PLEASE leave the part that it's a nude cruise out of it? It has NO relevance to the case. We all understand that you find such an idea abhorrent, you have said it REPEATEDLY on just about every page of this thread. What your friends think of nude cruises is irrelevant. What I think of nude cruises is irrelevant. You keep pressing on this issue and now you're claiming "no one wanted to travel with him" which you have ZERO facts to prove. Just because you and your friends don't like it doesn't mean others don't. The Century holds nearly 1800 pax. Most full-ship charters do sail full. So obviously 1800 people - whom you have never met - like the idea. It has NO RELEVANCE to him being kicked off, it has NO RELEVANCE to why he didn't bring a companion. You are making yourself out to be a horrible, rude person by continuing to focus on the subject. JUST DROP IT.

 

Amen and Bravo! ;)

[etoile]

I was being a bit sarcastic.... the fact is that his lawyer is crying foul. This is the same lawyer that represented the ADA in the Northwest lawsuit. So my question is this... he is very well connected with the ADA and he obviously has a wife and presumably colleagues and people he has known well over the years.

 

When his wife cancelled he was given the option of bringing someone else- even if it meant that he would possibly have to pay their way at the last minute. This was one option available to him. Either no one wanted to go on this type of cruise (which I HIGHLY suspect) or all these people that supposedly care about him with the ADA could have done the kind thing and flown there to assist him.

 

It sounds to me as though he just wasn't thinking clearly and when his wife took "ill" he should have scrapped the cruise.

 

As to his condition, I would never make fun of a handicapped person's condition but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be critical of the things that he does have control over.

 

Once again, the ADA is not an agency or government department. It is a law. All government agencies are concerned with the ADA, and so are many non-profit orgs, there is no main "disability HQ" anywhere.

[Jobeth66]

So even though people say "Cest L' Vie" Let live and let live... ask yourself if you would want to spend your vacation on a nude cruise.

 

Apparently enough of us would that chartering an entire cruise ship to accommodate us is common practice. There are nude beaches, campgrounds, and hotels all over the world.

 

So, yep. I'd love to spend my vacation on a nude cruise, along with the thousands and thousands of folks who think the same way.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

I beg to differ about the type of cruise being irrelevant...

 

A. His wife didn't go with him possibly due to the nature of the cruise.

B. He was unable to find someone else to go with him possibly due to the nature of the cruise.

C. I did sympathize with him more until I found out the nature of the cruise because my reaction was that he lacked good judgement because of the nature of the cruise.

D. He was clothed on the cruise which makes me even more suspicious that he went there as a voyeur and not a participant and his wife might have abandoned him at the last minute having reservations about this type of cruise.

 

So does it matter legally- no but this is an opinion site and not a court of law. I think Celebrity should settle out of court because it is going to waste their time and money fighting this in court. In the end, the cabin should be made more wheelchair friendly from the sounds of things- I have read two posts about the cabin not being ADA compliant. So I do think he has a case. I don't agree with it but if we are only looking at it from a legal standpoint- he probably does.

[etoile]

This is a little off topic but the carts in the aisle reminded me.

 

Why do so many who book accessible cabins park their sccoter in the corridors? The door is wide enough to get them in the room and there is some extra space in the room for the scooter.

 

Actually, most of those who park their scooter outside are NOT in accessible cabins. Fewer than 1% of the cabins on any given ship are accessible (I have done extensive research on this, because I am a huge nerd!), and the doors may not be wide enough to accommodate the scooter. Also, many scooters need to be recharged, and sometimes they are left in the hall or a separate area for that reason.

[BarbJ52]

I beg to differ about the type of cruise being irrelevant...

 

A. His wife didn't go with him possibly due to the nature of the cruise.

B. He was unable to find someone else to go with him possibly due to the nature of the cruise.

C. I did sympathize with him more until I found out the nature of the cruise because my reaction was that he lacked good judgement because of the nature of the cruise.

D. He was clothed on the cruise which makes me even more suspicious that he went there as a voyeur and not a participant and his wife might have abandoned him at the last minute having reservations about this type of cruise.

 

So does it matter legally- no but this is an opinion site and not a court of law. I think Celebrity should settle out of court because it is going to waste their time and money fighting this in court. In the end, the cabin should be made more wheelchair friendly from the sounds of things- I have read two posts about the cabin not being ADA compliant. So I do think he has a case. I don't agree with it but if we are only looking at it from a legal standpoint- he probably does.

 

You know, you almost made a valid point. It IS entirely possible that freinds who were able to travel at that time may not have been willing to go on this particular cruise. But ..... then you just couldn't help expanding on your comments and injecting suppositions and opinions that are not pertinent to the topic. Do I think he made an appropriate choice to travel alone? No, but it has nothing to do with the nature of the cruise or what his lifestyle may, or may not, be.

 

Your point of view is much more valid if you stick to the facts without making judgements that are irrelevant.

[AlinaMaria]

I will first say that I have not read all 400+ threads but after reading the articles and some comments I could not resist but to jump in and add my 2cents worth.

 

I am a Registered Nurse and a Disability Case Manager. My job is primarily to work with employees with restrictions and/or disabilities in a large healthcare organization. I assess employee's needs for accommodations that will provide the the opportunity to be independent and hold a job successfully. ADA guidelines and regs are my daily bread and butter. Also, my elderly mother is mobility impaired and we need to travel in accessible cabins when we cruise.

 

90% of our vacations together are cruises because cruising provides a more comfortable experience when traveling with my mother. When I travel with my mother I accompany her around the ship at all times, she never gets off the ship alone, and tours/excursions are planned based on her level of activity.

 

All cruise lines are clear in their documents that any passenger with a disability is to travel with a companion if assistance is required or the passenger is unable to care for self. Also, Celebrity provides excellent information regarding their accessible cabins in their Accessible online link where you can find location of grab bars, height of toilets, door width, size of cabin, etc.

 

That been said...In this instance, I totally agree with Celebrity. If they had allowed this passenger to stay on board alone, when he obviously required additional help for some activities of daily living, it would have been negligent on Celebrity's part and a direct threat to the passenger's own safety. Staff is not trained for this kind of caregiving, hiring a private duty nurse is definitely the correct recommendation in this case. The passenger should have brought a companion once his wife became unable to travel.

 

I understand the passenger's feeling and the fact, as he stated, he is able to care for himself. But this may be at home in a controlled environment. When you leave the comfort of your home and the well known limits of your hometown, persons with disabilities are not recommended to travel alone. He could research availability of travel assistance to persons with disabilities, sometimes free (if volunteers available) or at a low fee from many organizations providing assistance to people with disabilities.

 

PS: Please do not refer to people with disabilites as "disabled", cars become disabled, people do not. The cabins are accessible cabins because "disabled cabins" are not fit to be used by anyone, right?

[etoile]

I beg to differ about the type of cruise being irrelevant...

 

A. His wife didn't go with him possibly due to the nature of the cruise.

B. He was unable to find someone else to go with him possibly due to the nature of the cruise.

C. I did sympathize with him more until I found out the nature of the cruise because my reaction was that he lacked good judgement because of the nature of the cruise.

D. He was clothed on the cruise which makes me even more suspicious that he went there as a voyeur and not a participant and his wife might have abandoned him at the last minute having reservations about this type of cruise.

 

So does it matter legally- no but this is an opinion site and not a court of law. I think Celebrity should settle out of court because it is going to waste their time and money fighting this in court. In the end, the cabin should be made more wheelchair friendly from the sounds of things- I have read two posts about the cabin not being ADA compliant. So I do think he has a case. I don't agree with it but if we are only looking at it from a legal standpoint- he probably does.

 

A. maybe, maybe not. we don't know.

B. maybe, maybe not. we don't know.

C. You're basically saying that nudists are bad people who lack good judgment? Really? Because they like to sit around naked? That's preposterous, one thing has nothing to do with another. If you say heroin addicts lack good judgment, sure. Their brains have been altered by the drug. But nudists? Seriously?

D. we don't know his motivation for taking the cruise. his wife got sick. you seem not to believe her. even if she wasn't really sick, we still don't know her motivation for leaving.

 

You continue to make wild assumptions and pass cruel judgment based on it. That is simply ridiculous.

[ORV]

I am so tried of handicap people thinking the world owes them everything. Not all are like this but the ones that are make me mad. Why do I have to wait in long lines when someone in a wheelchair can go to the head of the line, get special treatment and have everything done for them.

 

Perhaps you'd like to volunteer to trade places with them. No, didn't think so.

 

Don't forget that the OP could have flown a family member to the ship or one of his many friends that he had made thru the years via his high ranking position with the ADA. That was another option. Or he could possibly have persuaded one of the passengers to help out. So this would have cost him much less than a private nurse. My suspicion is that his wife just didn't want to go- unless she was terminally ill. And I seriously doubt this or he wouldn't or shouldn't have left her home in the first place.

So the whole thing sounds like no one wanted to travel with him given the type of cruise it was. None of my friends would have any interest in a nude cruise- I did poll 3 or them ages 30, 47 and 63 and their reactions were disbelief and one used to dance on NCL as a paid employee and he had never even heard of nude cruises. In fact, he literally fell over and said "that's disgusting" when I asked him about it. So even though people say "Cest L' Vie" Let live and let live... ask yourself if you would want to spend your vacation on a nude cruise.

 

 

Please do yourself a favor and stop posting.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Agreed the ADA is not an agency it is the Americans with Disabilities Act. As to the right PC way to describe someone with a disability... I think that almost all people try to be courteous and helpful to people with disabilities and the language is not insulting to say someone is wheelchair bound, handi-capped or disabled. No one is being insensitive... they used to be called "Cripples". Do we say People with Disabilities Space or "Handicapped"? Come on.

[madelinerose]

Agreed the ADA is not an agency it is the Americans with Disabilities Act. As to the right PC way to describe someone with a disability... I think that almost all people try to be courteous and helpful to people with disabilities and the language is not insulting to say someone is wheelchair bound, handi-capped or disabled. No one is being insensitive... they used to be called "Cripples". Do we say People with Disabilities Space or "Handicapped"? Come on.

 

What? Seriously? :rolleyes:

 

btw...Were you formerly just "rebeccalouise"? Your tone and name seem awfully familiar and I believe I remember you even more distinctly because we both reside in the same state. :rolleyes:

[etoile]

Agreed the ADA is not an agency it is the Americans with Disabilities Act. As to the right PC way to describe someone with a disability... I think that almost all people try to be courteous and helpful to people with disabilities and the language is not insulting to say someone is wheelchair bound, handi-capped or disabled. No one is being insensitive... they used to be called "Cripples". Do we say People with Disabilities Space or "Handicapped"? Come on.

 

The bold part:

Glad we have cleared this up. Several of your posts seemed to indicate that you thought otherwise.

 

The rest of it:

I assume that was for AlinaMaria, not me? Although I am a Disability Studies student with opinions on the matter, I hadn't brought it up! :D

[BarbJ52]

deleted

[rebeccalouiseagain]

What? Seriously? :rolleyes:

 

btw...Were you formerly just "rebeccalouise"? Your tone and name seem awfully familiar and I believe I remember you even more distinctly because we both reside in the same state. :rolleyes:

 

Yeah- years ago I had an account with rebeccalouise but because I forgot my password and have a new email account... I wasn't able to use that name again. I stopped cruising for a while after we were "kicked" off a cruise in Copenhagen and it cost me a small fortune to get home and medical bills. That's why I am sympathetic to getting kicked off for medical reasons but that's life. It wasn't anyone's fault just happens. In our case my son had a fever and I went right away to the ships doctor for advice. The ship's doctor said he would have to be quarantined because it was during the swine flu scare. So he said it would be best to disembark before we set sail. It was a good call because my son was sick for four more days and then of course I got sick. He tested negative for swine flu and more likely had a virus but either way he was contagious. So it was what it was. I couldn't afford to cruise again last year.

[madelinerose]

Yeah- years ago I had an account with rebeccalouise but because I forgot my password and have a new email account...

 

 

Thought so. I won't be replying to your posts again. :D

[etoile]

WHEW...finally got through this whole thread.

 

One thing I want to note about Mr. Keskeny's complaint with the airline, from here:

Keskeny, who has flown on Northwest for business and vacations, alleges he was tilted parallel to the floor as he was wheeled down the aisle of a plane by airport personnel and that airline employees broke his wheelchair while handling it.

 

Keskeny said a lot of his trips were frustrating in a number of different ways, including long waits to get in and out of the restroom, or to get off the plane, or not having proper access for wheelchair storage.

 

"A guy almost dropped (me) and tipped me on my head," he said Wednesday.

Getting tipped over backwards sounds pretty bad. Almost being dropped sounds pretty bad. But the middle part...OH PLEASE! Those are just natural parts of having a disability. Sometimes you have to wait for assistance. Life sucks, you can't sue the airline because the flight attendants are spread too thin to help you with the restroom immediately or because everybody else wants to rush off the plane and you have to wait for the aisle to be clear. Traveling is an inconvenience for everyone 99% of the time. Just deal with it!

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Thought so. I won't be replying to your posts again. :D

 

Don't know what that's supposed to mean. Did I offend you at some point? I wasn't kicked off here if that's your implication. I'm sorry if you were offended by anything I wrote.

[etoile]

Don't know what that's supposed to mean. Did I offend you at some point? I wasn't kicked off here if that's your implication. I'm sorry if you were offended by anything I wrote.

 

:eek::eek::eek:

[GITC]

I beg to differ about the type of cruise being irrelevant...

 

A. His wife didn't go with him possibly due to the nature of the cruise.

B. He was unable to find someone else to go with him possibly due to the nature of the cruise.

C. I did sympathize with him more until I found out the nature of the cruise because my reaction was that he lacked good judgement because of the nature of the cruise.

D. He was clothed on the cruise which makes me even more suspicious that he went there as a voyeur and not a participant and his wife might have abandoned him at the last minute having reservations about this type of cruise.

 

So does it matter legally- no but this is an opinion site and not a court of law. I think Celebrity should settle out of court because it is going to waste their time and money fighting this in court. In the end, the cabin should be made more wheelchair friendly from the sounds of things- I have read two posts about the cabin not being ADA compliant. So I do think he has a case. I don't agree with it but if we are only looking at it from a legal standpoint- he probably does.

Lots of supposition and speculation but, at the end of the day, haven't you dug yourself into a big enough hole? Why not quit while you're only as far behind as you are?

 

You have admitted to being "kicked" off a ship before and came up with a plausible story behind it. How would you like it if people made up their own conclusions about why you were REALLY taken off the ship? Certainly, given some of things that you have posted in this thread, it wouldn't be hard to go down that road. How would like it?

 

Didn't think so.

[bananavan]

How sad is it that this discussion has taken us to a point where people are disagreeing, not so much about the topic at hand, but with each other as people?

I have seen many people removed from cruise ships. There are a myriad of reasons. Some have misbehaved, ie: drugs, contraband, domestic violence. Some do not wish to follow the rules of the ship. In this case, the ship was not able to meet the gentleman's needs, offered him an alternative, he refused and as a result he was disembarked.

Others have become ill and needed medical care above and beyond that which is offered onboard. They are left to find their own way home.

Some are airlifted to the closest port.

Some pass away onboard and are dismebarked at the next port.

The medical reasons are all examples of why one would use travel insurance. There are many types available for prepurchase including the cancel for any reason. It is a shame that the gentleman in question did not avail himself of that option. All of this could have been avoided.

[CaroleLee]

I will first say that I have not read all 400+ threads but after reading the articles and some comments I could not resist but to jump in and add my 2cents worth.

 

I am a Registered Nurse and a Disability Case Manager. My job is primarily to work with employees with restrictions and/or disabilities in a large healthcare organization. I assess employee's needs for accommodations that will provide the the opportunity to be independent and hold a job successfully. ADA guidelines and regs are my daily bread and butter. Also, my elderly mother is mobility impaired and we need to travel in accessible cabins when we cruise.

 

90% of our vacations together are cruises because cruising provides a more comfortable experience when traveling with my mother. When I travel with my mother I accompany her around the ship at all times, she never gets off the ship alone, and tours/excursions are planned based on her level of activity.

 

All cruise lines are clear in their documents that any passenger with a disability is to travel with a companion if assistance is required or the passenger is unable to care for self. Also, Celebrity provides excellent information regarding their accessible cabins in their Accessible online link where you can find location of grab bars, height of toilets, door width, size of cabin, etc.

 

That been said...In this instance, I totally agree with Celebrity. If they had allowed this passenger to stay on board alone, when he obviously required additional help for some activities of daily living, it would have been negligent on Celebrity's part and a direct threat to the passenger's own safety. Staff is not trained for this kind of caregiving, hiring a private duty nurse is definitely the correct recommendation in this case. The passenger should have brought a companion once his wife became unable to travel.

 

I understand the passenger's feeling and the fact, as he stated, he is able to care for himself. But this may be at home in a controlled environment. When you leave the comfort of your home and the well known limits of your hometown, persons with disabilities are not recommended to travel alone. He could research availability of travel assistance to persons with disabilities, sometimes free (if volunteers available) or at a low fee from many organizations providing assistance to people with disabilities.

 

PS: Please do not refer to people with disabilites as "disabled", cars become disabled, people do not. The cabins are accessible cabins because "disabled cabins" are not fit to be used by anyone, right?

 

So agree with you. The information is on the website-just read it. A HC person @ home as you said is in a controlled envirnoment- a ship moves- so ambulation- be it self or mechanical is very different. As you so clearly stated there are organizations for disabled travel, travel agents who specialize in this area etc etc.

Bottom line is this really looks like a set-up

carole

[98Charlie]

Whoa wait, what evidence is there that he flew out of BBR? I was assuming PTP. Isn't PTP the main international airport there? Have I missed an article saying he flew out of BBR?

No, you are correct. When I figured it out a couple of pages had flown by so I didn't bother bringing up a correction.

 

Charlie