Celebrity dumps disabled man on island.

[GRBlizz]

I know the topic has moved on, but I wanted to address the issue of the "rim" or "bump" at the entrance to the bathrooms on the accessible Sky Suites on Century.

 

My DH has MS and uses a wheelchair full-time - electric at home, but manual when we travel. We sailed in Celebrity Sky Suite 1200 in July 2008, after the refit. In fact, the picture that was posted upthread was a picture I had posted in the Cabins pictures section. Unfortunately, I failed to shoot the entry to the bathroom - mostly because it WASN"T AN ISSUE!

 

Yes, there was a bit of a ramp. We had a similar ramp on the Infinity the following year. It's very modest, and not at all the same height as the step-up to a bathroom in a regular cabin. My DH did not have trouble navigating it.

 

But here's my question: the big, BIG, problem with that cabin for a solo traveler is that that doors do not open automatically. If this gentleman couldn't get into the bathroom, how did he ever get out of the cabin????

 

My DH and I join those who cannot imagine a person with his challenges travelling alone and expecting strangers to take care of him. In addition to what everyone else has said, MS is often exacerbated by the stress of travel. It's just a bad idea. I would expect someone who has been dealing with this for 30 years to know this. We are only 5 years into the wheelchair need, and we certainly know it!

[ehfl]

I also wonder why he selected a "larger" cabin, instead of an accessible one. It sounds like a setup to me.

 

There are people who make a (good) living suing businesses for ADA issues. http://edca.*****.com/eastern_district_of_calif/2010/12/man-filing-hundreds-of-ada-lawsuits-caught-making-threats.html

[goodearth]

Goodearth....is your real name Pearl S. Buck??? hehehe, couldn't keep from it, sorry!

 

Den

 

 

LOL--Didn't think of that when I chose that 'pen' name...:o

[GRBlizz]

I also wonder why he selected a "larger" cabin, instead of an accessible one. It sounds like a setup to me.

 

There are people who make a (good) living suing businesses for ADA issues. http://edca.*****.com/eastern_district_of_calif/2010/12/man-filing-hundreds-of-ada-lawsuits-caught-making-threats.html

 

The CC article says that he did have an accessible cabin, one of the two accessible Sky Suites on Century (1200 and 1201). They are both large and accessible. And $4000 for 2 people for 10 days is a bargain compared to what we paid, BTW.

[etoile]

30 days prior to sailing • Raised toilet seat

Boom, there you go. He has no case regarding the toilet seat either. He would have needed that REGARDLESS of whether he had an assistant on board. They obviously don't keep them on board, you have to request in advance. He didn't. No case.

[Eurobikefan]

According to the advertisement for this cruise from the tour operator, the price for sky suites on sports deck for this cruise was $3649 per person with double occupancy. Reporting says he paid $4000 for the cruise. :confused: I guess I am confused---seems the cabin would cost at least 2 x $3649 ($7298), whether occupied by him and wife or just him alone. Unless he had a roommate substituting for wife----but none was mentioned... If he got the whole room to himself for $4000 sounds like quite the deal.

[alexkrn46]

According to the advertisement for this cruise from the tour operator, the price for sky suites on sports deck for this cruise was $3649 per person with double occupancy. Reporting says he paid $4000 for the cruise. :confused: I guess I am confused---seems the cabin would cost at least 2 x $3649 ($7298), whether occupied by him and wife or just him alone. Unless he had a roommate substituting for wife----but none was mentioned... If he got the whole room to himself for $4000 sounds like quite the deal.

 

That is a great point I haven't heard and very interesting.

[98Charlie]

According to the advertisement for this cruise from the tour operator, the price for sky suites on sports deck for this cruise was $3649 per person with double occupancy. Reporting says he paid $4000 for the cruise. :confused: I guess I am confused---seems the cabin would cost at least 2 x $3649 ($7298), whether occupied by him and wife or just him alone. Unless he had a roommate substituting for wife----but none was mentioned... If he got the whole room to himself for $4000 sounds like quite the deal.

 

That's great sleuthing if it's correct. Good job.

 

And the mystery goes on.

 

Dianne

[montgomeryfamily]

GRBliss, as I have posted several times in this thread, we were also in Suite 1200, the wheelchair accessible skysuite on the Century. We cruised on the Century a year ago.

 

Our disabled family member uses a manual wheelchair. As I have previously said, there was a ramp to the bathroom, although I agree not as high as a step up to a regular bathroom. There was a slight lip or bump up at the top at the entrance to the bathroom, but we also did not have trouble getting over it if we did not come in at an angle, but I did assist our family member in getting into the bathroom as his arm strength was insufficient to be able to do this himself. He had no trouble getting out of the bathroom by himself. I thought this was different than the ramp entrance to the bathroom in the Infinity skysuite. I thought that ramp on the Infinity was almost flat. But we were in the Infinity first and I think that that type of ramp set up was what we expected on the Century, but it was not the same. Since we were able to get into the bathroom, it was not an issue to us and we did not make any complaint about it.

 

However, we did have an issue about the balcony, as I have previously posted. There was no ramp from the stateroom to the balcony. So the wheelchair could not roll out onto the balcony. It took four days out of a five day cruise before I could get a ramp out there and it took a lot of complaining all the way to the top levels. The other Century skysuite also did not have a ramp to the balcony.

 

Did you have a ramp from the stateroom to the balcony? I would appreciate knowing about your experience.

 

I also agree about the door to the stateroom. We requested a door stop from the room steward and used that, as it was very difficult to hold the door open and enter or exit at the same time.

 

Etoile, it is our experience that some toilet seat risers are usually kept aboard on the ship and are available upon request, although if you request in advance, Celebrity usually has the room steward to place it in the room before you board. This is why I asked Dan to inquire whether this man had requested a toilet seat riser and if so, what was the response of the staff? I hope that Dan is able to ask this question.

[GRBlizz]

Montgomeryfamily - We did not have a ramp to the balcony. I didn't know that this was even possible, so I didn't request one (not on this cruise, or the later one on Infinity, where we booked a HC aft Concierge Class cabin specifically for the balcony views!)

 

However, in both cabins, we just used the same procedure we use for transfers to beds and toilets - DH kind of pivoted over the barrier into a patio chair which I had placed there for him, and then got back into his own chair when on the balcony. This would only work if you had the ability to stand a little, and was not ideal, as it did require me to be present for him to use the balcony. But we really enjoyed the balcony on both cruises.

 

The good news is that the S-Class ships have lovely ramps to the balcony, and much flatter bathroom access, in addition to our favorite improvement, the automatic door. So they are moving in the right direction.

[GRBlizz]

According to the advertisement for this cruise from the tour operator, the price for sky suites on sports deck for this cruise was $3649 per person with double occupancy. Reporting says he paid $4000 for the cruise. :confused: I guess I am confused---seems the cabin would cost at least 2 x $3649 ($7298), whether occupied by him and wife or just him alone. Unless he had a roommate substituting for wife----but none was mentioned... If he got the whole room to himself for $4000 sounds like quite the deal.

 

That sounds more in line with the pricing I've seen for that cabin. I have a speculation: could his wife's half have been refunded by trip insurance? Or is he perhaps being reasonable and not trying to stick X for the whole price, when half of the cost was due to his wife's inability to go?

[kitkat9438]

I know the topic has moved on, but I wanted to address the issue of the "rim" or "bump" at the entrance to the bathrooms on the accessible Sky Suites on Century.

 

My DH has MS and uses a wheelchair full-time - electric at home, but manual when we travel. We sailed in Celebrity Sky Suite 1200 in July 2008, after the refit. In fact, the picture that was posted upthread was a picture I had posted in the Cabins pictures section. Unfortunately, I failed to shoot the entry to the bathroom - mostly because it WASN"T AN ISSUE!

 

Yes, there was a bit of a ramp. We had a similar ramp on the Infinity the following year. It's very modest, and not at all the same height as the step-up to a bathroom in a regular cabin. My DH did not have trouble navigating it.

 

But here's my question: the big, BIG, problem with that cabin for a solo traveler is that that doors do not open automatically. If this gentleman couldn't get into the bathroom, how did he ever get out of the cabin????

 

My DH and I join those who cannot imagine a person with his challenges travelling alone and expecting strangers to take care of him. In addition to what everyone else has said, MS is often exacerbated by the stress of travel. It's just a bad idea. I would expect someone who has been dealing with this for 30 years to know this. We are only 5 years into the wheelchair need, and we certainly know it!

 

Did your DH have any problems with the bed height and getting in and out of bed? I haven't seen that issue discussed which Mr. K just recently addressed in his latest list of "issues" with the cabin.

 

I totally agree that Celebrity should provide ramps to the balcony for those that cannot transfer from the wheelchair to the balcony chair on their own.

 

On another note, Century has 7 oceanview accessible cabins and one inside accessible cabin. I'm sure the cost is much less than the suite. They may not have been available at the time of his booking though. That is interesting about the cost of the cruise fare being $3,649 pp. In the first article, Mr. K also said he paid $700 for a ticket to fly home, but then said it cost him $1,500 to get home?? I don't know how cruise insurance works. If one has to cancel can you get a refund for that portion of the cruise fare? If so, that would explain it.

[GRBlizz]

Did your DH have any problems with the bed height and getting in and out of bed? I haven't seen that issue discussed which Mr. K just recently addressed in his latest list of "issues" with the cabin.

 

No problems with the bed height. My DH does sometimes need help getting into and out of bed, but the bed height isn't the issue. The issue is that he can't always lift his legs. If the bed is tall, he will have trouble getting in. If it's short, he will have trouble getting out and into his chair.

 

I'm not sure what Mr. K does at home, but my guess is that he gets help from his wife.

 

As the wife/caregiver of a man with MS, I would really love to hear what Mrs. K has to say about all this. ;)

[montgomeryfamily]

Donna, we agree that the Soltice is an outstanding ship for wheelchair access. We have sailed on the Soltice twice since our unfortunate sailing on the Century. Both the ship features and staff are wonderful for wheelchair users. And, of course, there are ramps to the balcony in the room.

 

The ramps to the balcony are basically portable--can be moved and adjusted--at least on all of the ones we have seen on all of the ships we have been on, not just Celebrity but other cruise lines as well. A wheelchair accessible stateroom is not actually truly accessible if there is a balcony and not a ramp or other means of access for those in wheelchairs. So I think it should be standard to have a ramp or other means of access to the balcony in a wheelchair accessible room--otherwise it is really just an oceanview with a big window. Being able to use the balcony is why we (and IMHO everyone else who ever books a room with a balcony) pays the premium cost for a balcony room or suite.

 

We did have a balcony ramp on the Infinity and it was in the suite when we first entered. However, we have found that since the ramps are portable, sometimes they have been removed when the rooms are booked by able bodied, as the ramps do take up a portion of the balcony space. But the few occasions that we have found that to be the case, a simple request to the cabin steward and the ramp is put back in place (Except for situation we encountered on the Century :eek:). So you might want to keep that in mind. I do think that the room steward or housekeeping should ensure the ramp is in place for the next passengers, but it doesn't always happen.

 

Even though our disabled family member can stand (at least for short periods of time), he can not pivot and I could not imagine trying to help him to get over the step without him falling or getting injured. And there are many disabled who cannot stand at all. So you were fortunate to be able to use the balcony without a ramp, although I imagine that was difficult and stressful for you both to try to get on the balcony without falling or getting injured.

[boo214]

I'm sure disembarking a disabled guy in a foreign port to fend for himself (because they'd determined he couldn't care for himself) was in his 'best interest';)

 

It sort of gets down to perspectives... I appreciate your caveat "i think" - because none of us here actually know what happened. All we've got is corporate 'spin doctoring' vs. 'disbled activist spin doctoring'.

 

But - simplifying the bowlegged one's pitch... The guy was having problems with 'allegedly' non-ADA compliant fixtures/furnishings. So X offered to either, 1) sell him a nurse ($$$), or 2) put him ashore (:eek:). Whereas the wheeler says, get me ADA compliant fixtures, or transfer assistance as 'reasonable accomodation' (free).

 

What the level of his transfer or other issues were - is factual, and what the nature of the fixtures issues were is factual; thus, its pure speculation on the part of posters here (accepting that both sides have credibility issues because of self-interest). Any 'conclusions reached' here by filling in the blanks speculatively is g.i.g.o.

 

But - if X suffers fairly high bad press, publicity, and legal expense, then it was because they demanded to put the payment issue first (X's self interest) rather than provide the necessary assistance - and haggle or fight over the charges later.

 

I hope they found the approximately $8k 'worth it' for what they've gotten out of it...:rolleyes: Sounds like a crummy business decision to me.

 

(Remember also - the '$8k' is not money out of pocket either for the line, its simply potential retail-income chargeable [200hrs x $40 nurse]; presumably the nurse was on board and expensed into the voyage anyways...)

 

As posited earlier, X ought to thank their stars the guy wasn't injured on Gaudeloupe. I think what the line might be seeing is that its real nice to have fine print in the contract, and its real nice to have loyal passengers that will defend you adamently, but there's a point where maybe 'just maybe' the tangible and intangible expenses of putting a disabled guy ashore under these circumstances bite you in the butt (and far exceed whatever $$ the infirmary and purser were trying to extract on board).

1) it is my understanding that x got him to the airport, not just dumping him on the dock and say "see ya".

2) i don't believe reading anywhere that he asked for the toilet or bed riser nor that he asked for them and did not recieve them.

[graphicguy]

1) it is my understanding that x got him to the airport, not just dumping him on the dock and say "see ya".

2) i don't believe reading anywhere that he asked for the toilet or bed riser nor that he asked for them and did not recieve them.

I see this as something the person in question was trying to make much, much more dramatic than it actually was.

 

I do hope arbitration plays out to deny all of this person's claims. This only hurts those who have legitimate claims.

 

Disabled persons have worked so hard to convince as many as possible that they are just like everyone else. This person is just the opposite..."treat me as an invalid".

 

If he truly is an invalid, then in all frankness, he has no business cruising (or doing anything else) alone.

[boo214]

I'm sure disembarking a disabled guy in a foreign port to fend for himself (because they'd determined he couldn't care for himself) was in his 'best interest';)

 

It sort of gets down to perspectives... I appreciate your caveat "i think" - because none of us here actually know what happened. All we've got is corporate 'spin doctoring' vs. 'disbled activist spin doctoring'.

 

But - simplifying the bowlegged one's pitch... The guy was having problems with 'allegedly' non-ADA compliant fixtures/furnishings. So X offered to either, 1) sell him a nurse ($$$), or 2) put him ashore (:eek:). Whereas the wheeler says, get me ADA compliant fixtures, or transfer assistance as 'reasonable accomodation' (free).

 

What the level of his transfer or other issues were - is factual, and what the nature of the fixtures issues were is factual; thus, its pure speculation on the part of posters here (accepting that both sides have credibility issues because of self-interest). Any 'conclusions reached' here by filling in the blanks speculatively is g.i.g.o.

 

But - if X suffers fairly high bad press, publicity, and legal expense, then it was because they demanded to put the payment issue first (X's self interest) rather than provide the necessary assistance - and haggle or fight over the charges later.

 

I hope they found the approximately $8k 'worth it' for what they've gotten out of it...:rolleyes: Sounds like a crummy business decision to me.

 

(Remember also - the '$8k' is not money out of pocket either for the line, its simply potential retail-income chargeable [200hrs x $40 nurse]; presumably the nurse was on board and expensed into the voyage anyways...)

 

As posited earlier, X ought to thank their stars the guy wasn't injured on Gaudeloupe. I think what the line might be seeing is that its real nice to have fine print in the contract, and its real nice to have loyal passengers that will defend you adamently, but there's a point where maybe 'just maybe' the tangible and intangible expenses of putting a disabled guy ashore under these circumstances bite you in the butt (and far exceed whatever $$ the infirmary and purser were trying to extract on board).

1) as stated by another poster (a comment which you have yet to respond to i think) simply charging the mans seapass would have been illegal.

2)the nurse was not already aboard. he/she was to have been flown from Miami and meet the ship.

[detroitcruiser]

Very interesting that MSNBC would reprint a story from CruiseCritic.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42645683/ns/travel-cruise_travel/

[dmwnc1959]

Very interesting that MSNBC would reprint a story from CruiseCritic.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42645683/ns/travel-cruise_travel/

 

Maybe because out of ALL the news stories that have come out it is the most complete unbiased report?

[Wine-O]

Maybe because out of ALL the news stories that have come out it is the most complete unbiased report?

 

MSNBC printing a complete unbiased report? :eek: Their credibility is about the same as their ratings.

[dmwnc1959]

MSNBC printing a complete unbiased report? :eek: Their credibility is about the same as their ratings.

 

Sure beats all the other one-sided, biased, inflammatory verbiage opinion pieces that have come out of every other website and news organization. ;)

[CaroleLee]

Very interesting that MSNBC would reprint a story from CruiseCritic.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42645683/ns/travel-cruise_travel/

 

Fascinating that the comments on this story on the MSNBC website are far from supportive of Mr. K. Anyone have the feeling that his "activism" is not working out the way he planned?

Carole

[GRBlizz]

I'm guessing Mr. K and his attorney like the headlines that they are getting. But anyone who reads the article and the comments can easily see that the majority of readers feel this guy brought this problem on himself.

 

One thing I read in this latest update was that Mr. K cruised with this same charter group before, and received the assistance he needed from an "assigned roommate". What? I wonder how that roommate felt about paying to go on vacation, and getting stuck being personal assistant to a stranger!

 

It's one thing to ask for a push in the cafeteria line, and a whole 'nother thing to demand that people show up at certain times on vacation to get you out of bed. SMH.

[CaroleLee]

I'm guessing Mr. K and his attorney like the headlines that they are getting. But anyone who reads the article and the comments can easily see that the majority of readers feel this guy brought this problem on himself.

 

One thing I read in this latest update was that Mr. K cruised with this same charter group before, and received the assistance he needed from an "assigned roommate". What? I wonder how that roommate felt about paying to go on vacation, and getting stuck being personal assistant to a stranger!

 

It's one thing to ask for a push in the cafeteria line, and a whole 'nother thing to demand that people show up at certain times on vacation to get you out of bed. SMH.

 

Exactly, as others have stated its one thing to help-holding a door,carrying a tray it is another thing to assist with ADL. The prior cruise "assigned roommate" has there been any investigative reporting on this person? Was he an aide/friend who was trained to help or did he suddenly find himself gangpressed into personal care aide?

Carole

[Tucker in Texas]

Nowhere has it ever been mentioned (or perhaps I missed it) that Mr. K had insurance. I can't imagine anyone with MS would not buy 3rd party insurance that would cover pre-existing if bought within a certain amount of time after making the initial deposit. Cruise insurance does not cover pre-existing that I am aware of but then I never buy cruise insurance so I have not really checked it out.

 

Now assuming he did buy the insurance with pre-existing, it would seem to me that his travel expenses would be covered unless there is something in the "fine print" that would let them off the hook. When you buy it, they don't ask what your pre-existing illness is which could be anything from heart, cancer, diabetes--MS in this case.

 

The reason I think he may have had insurance is because of the price he said he paid ($4K) for the cruise combined with his wife's sudden illness.

 

This scenario came up on another forum. Two people traveling together with insurance. I can't remember which one it was or even if it was even mentioned. One became ill and could not make the cruise and canceled a few weeks out. Her "out of pocket" to that point was fully paid by the insurance company. However, the cruise line (and I can't remember which one it was either) then bumped the other person's fare from double to single and wanted the difference. I can see the cruise line's reasoning for bumping up the fare. People would book as a double knowing that one would not be going so the second person could get a double vs. single rate.

 

The insurance company said if both canceled, then both would get reimbursed but that if one chooses to go on the cruise, then they are not responsible for the difference in single vs. double fare That is not in the contract. Think of the fuel surcharge that was added after people had booked and paid for their cruises. Insurance didn't cover that. Trust me, people tried to collect it.

 

On a recent cruise, we had this same situation come up. But, the person who had to cancel did not do so until full fare penalty was in effect. So the sick person was considered a "no show" rather than a"cancellation." The cruise line got the person's full fare, the insurance company reimbursed the sick person for it, and the person who took the cruise did not have to pay the difference in single vs. double fare.

 

So, the cynic being in me, wonders if Mr. K. did have insurance and his wife never intended on going with him (she didn't go in 2009 when he went). But, knowing the system, he waited until the "no show" went into effect before canceling so he. could keep his double fare. That would explain why his cost was only $4K which someone else pointed out was not what he figured it should have been looking at that charter company's web site and putting the pencil to the paper. He said he figured it should have been higher for two people.

 

Tucker in Texas