Celebrity dumps disabled man on island.

[DanishBeauty]

I do not usually post on CC but feel I must respond to the many assumptions made by some of the OP's on this board. Not only was I on this particular cruise, but the gentleman in question was one of my tablemates at dinner. Everyone at the table was aware of his particular needs including one couple that assisted him in his cabin a few times that I am aware of.

While I do not want to get involved in who was right and who was wrong, I do want to assure to everyone that this passenger was gracious at all times and never seemed to complain or act abusive to anyone including the staff. He did mention the inability to access the balcony and the bump or lip between the cabin and the bathroom.

We were never told what happened to him after day 3 of the cruise, but assumed he became ill. While I myself would never attempt a cruise in a wheelchair without a companion to help me, I am sure many handicapped people manage it all the time.

 

Also, in response to the negative comments concerning this being a nude cruise. This was my very first nude/clothing optional cruise and I loved it.

Please remember that everyones needs and desires in life are different. That is what makes people so interesting. To quote a fellow nude cruiser who was also my tablemate: If God wanted us to be naked, we would have been born that way.

[NorthernLite]

First, I am a full time wheelchair user and have 13 or 14 Celebrity cruises to my record. I would never think of trying to cruise alone and my husband would raise a royal rucus if I tried (probably have me checked for a brain injury). Having read several versions of this gentleman's ordeal; seems this cruise's shortness was totally on him.

 

For the uninformed, he may practice naturism at home but feel less than comfortable uncovering if he manages his bladder with an indwelling catheter and drainage bag. It is not "creepy". It is a medical device.

 

I would be interested in hearing more about the discussion not to set him ashore in St Barts. It is a short ferry ride to Marigot in St Martin and a large airport. Why the extra day to go to Gaudalope? Could this be due more to Celebrity's policy to not allow non-walkers into tenders? St Barts is a tender port. I believe Guadalope has a full dock.

[GITC]

I do not usually post on CC but feel I must respond to the many assumptions made by some of the OP's on this board. Not only was I on this particular cruise, but the gentleman in question was one of my tablemates at dinner. Everyone at the table was aware of his particular needs including one couple that assisted him in his cabin a few times that I am aware of.

While I do not want to get involved in who was right and who was wrong, I do want to assure to everyone that this passenger was gracious at all times and never seemed to complain or act abusive to anyone including the staff. He did mention the inability to access the balcony and the bump or lip between the cabin and the bathroom.

We were never told what happened to him after day 3 of the cruise, but assumed he became ill. While I myself would never attempt a cruise in a wheelchair without a companion to help me, I am sure many handicapped people manage it all the time.

 

Also, in response to the negative comments concerning this being a nude cruise. This was my very first nude/clothing optional cruise and I loved it.

Please remember that everyones needs and desires in life are different. That is what makes people so interesting. To quote a fellow nude cruiser who was also my tablemate: If God wanted us to be naked, we would have been born that way.

Thank you for weighing in on this topic, DanishBeauty. Your perspective is very much appreciated.

 

As I've indicated earlier in this thread, while nude cruising is not for me, I certainly don't begrudge those who find this to be their preference. It sounds like it would be quite liberating.

 

Please excuse the ignorant who have posted in this thread and think that this is some how a factor in this story.

[montgomeryfamily]

DanishBeauty, thank you for posting with the additional information on this situation. Do you happen to know what the difficulty was with the balcony access? Did your tablemates happen to mention? Thanks.

[dgraham]

As a wheelchair traveller for the last 35 years I had to wonder a bit when in an interview the complaintant described the bed as being too low. The older RCCL ships and the Celebrity Zenith did have very low beds and it was very difficult to get back up into my wheelchair (I use a transfer board, but my wife fortunately was, and is, very strong, probably because of me). Celebrity's M ships were just the right height (about 18 inches, the height of most manual wheelchair seats). But the current fascination with "cushion-top) beds has made hotel visits much more demanding as one has to go so high it is virtually a leap, and getting out is more tricky as one's feet sometimes cannot reach the floor, which can make transferring, even using a transfer board, more difficult.

 

So I was a bit concerned when we first cruised on one of the new S class ships, the Equinox, and indeed the bed was a bit higher, but fortunately not by much, and better than most of the current hotels.

 

As for the Century, I have a picture somewhere that shows them adding the Skysuite accessible cabin as a prefabricated unit into its place in the Century's refurbishment. It is hard to believe that as this refurbishment took place recently the cabin didn't reflect the latest refinements for such cabins.

 

As for the toilet being too low, Celebrity has always offered portable units that are placed on the seat to raise its height even higher. One just has to request these.

[DJ1VIKES]

I am so tried of handicap people thinking the world owes them everything. Not all are like this but the ones that are make me mad. Why do I have to wait in long lines when someone in a wheelchair can go to the head of the line, get special treatment and have everything done for them. This guy should have known to make sure all arrangements where in place before he left for his cruise. To think a crew member should be made to get him in and out of bed and on and off the toilet is crazy. He should have brought someone with him or not gone.

 

The cruise ship probably did the right thing, because if something serious would have happened to the guy before the end of the cruise it would have been on the nightly news.

[sasset]

Thank you for weighing in on this topic, DanishBeauty. Your perspective is very much appreciated.

 

As I've indicated earlier in this thread, while nude cruising is not for me, I certainly don't begrudge those who find this to be their preference. It sounds like it would be quite liberating.

 

Please excuse the ignorant who have posted in this thread and think that this is some how a factor in this story.

 

There would be alot less pages in this thread too.

[JLC@SD]

To quote a fellow nude cruiser who was also my tablemate: If God wanted us to be naked, we would have been born that way.

 

This is true....until Eve ate that apple.....and that screwed up everything.....;)

 

Point of Order........I am someone that deals with ADA (The Americans with Disabilities Act) daily .......and those that used to be called "handicapped" .......are properly referred to a....... disabled person.......not a handicapped person.

[etoile]

Still reading this long thread, not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but...it's very hard to fly from Guadeloupe to Detroit through Haiti. Air Canada has the cheapest flights, through Montreal and Toronto. American Airlines also has flights, through San Juan and Miami. The only way to go through Haiti is to fly Air France and switch to Continental in Port-au-Prince (and then change planes in Newark)...which is just silly when the other options are available.

[discjoker]

The only way to go through Haiti is to fly Air France and switch to Continental in Port-au-Prince (and then change planes in Newark)...which is just silly when the other options are available.

 

Maybe that was the only available option given the short notice.

[detroitcruiser]

I am so tried of handicap people thinking the world owes them everything. Not all are like this but the ones that are make me mad. Why do I have to wait in long lines when someone in a wheelchair can go to the head of the line, get special treatment and have everything done for them.

 

Classy.

[etoile]

Maybe that was the only available option given the short notice.

 

Air France and American both fly out on Wednesdays. Air Canada flies out on Saturdays. Seems to me he could have taken American and gone through San Juan and Miami, both of which have no health issues...but I suppose there may have been other factors.

 

It's definitely hard to get a flight off a small Caribbean island, so I feel for him there - but I don't think he necessarily HAD to fly through Port-au-Prince.

[Denny01]

Detroitcruiser - thought the same thing about that post. But a question for you. You'd been asked earlier if you were the lawyer involved in this issue but you never responded. Are you involved in this beyond the human interest perspective? After 20+ posts from you, would be nice to know if there is more to your cc involvement than just another poster.

 

Den

[etoile]

Detroitcruiser - thought the same thing about that post. But a question for you. You'd been asked earlier if you were the lawyer involved in this issue but you never responded. Are you involved in this beyond the human interest perspective? After 20+ posts from you, would be nice to know if there is more to your cc involvement than just another poster.

 

Den

 

I'm still reading through this whole thread, but detroitcruiser explicitly stated that he (she?) is a law STUDENT and is not the lawyer for this case.

[GITC]

I am so tried of handicap people thinking the world owes them everything. Not all are like this but the ones that are make me mad. Why do I have to wait in long lines when someone in a wheelchair can go to the head of the line, get special treatment and have everything done for them.

 

Yeah, and they get those great parking spots right in front of the stores and restaurants. What's THAT about? Man, disabled folks have ALL the advantages, don't they.

 

 

 

I am, of course, joking but I don't think you were.....Sad. Really sad.

[discjoker]

Air France and American both fly out on Wednesdays. Air Canada flies out on Saturdays. Seems to me he could have taken American and gone through San Juan and Miami, both of which have no health issues...but I suppose there may have been other factors.

 

It's definitely hard to get a flight off a small Caribbean island, so I feel for him there - but I don't think he necessarily HAD to fly through Port-au-Prince.

 

But neither you nor I have any idea if those flights were full or if there was a major difference in price. It could very well have been the only/best option (in terms of price) for that given time.

 

Honestly, do you think that if there were better options (that didn't put him in Haiti) and would have gotten him home more directly, he wouldn't have taken it?

[etoile]

But neither you nor I have any idea if those flights were full or if there was a major difference in price. It could very well have been the only/best option (in terms of price) for that given time.

 

Honestly, do you think that if there were better options (that didn't put him in Haiti) and would have gotten him home more directly, he wouldn't have taken it?

 

Actually, I've been using Kayak to get all my information. And looking at it again, they fly out far more than Wed/Sat! Looks like daily flights even. American flies out at 2:40pm daily, to San Juan.

 

Using tomorrow, 4/18, as the date:

Air Canada flight Thursday 4/21 is cheapest, $1005

American flight ON 4/18 is next, $1058

 

Air France flights are far more expensive. In the $5000 range.

 

I have no idea what he would have done given better options. However, I do not see that those options were unavailable to him. The only way off of Guadeloupe through Haiti is Air France. Air France is NOT the only carrier out of Guadeloupe.

[98Charlie]

Yeah, and they get those great parking spots right in front of the stores and restaurants. What's THAT about? Man, disabled folks have ALL the advantages, don't they.

 

 

 

I am, of course, joking but I don't think you were.....Sad. Really sad.

 

I don't think that DJ1VIKES was joking either. But I guess I read the post differently.

 

I thought it was an expression that there is a very small portion of some groups (in this case the disabled) that get a lot of negative attention. Maybe I'm wrong in his/her intention.

 

Charlie

[discjoker]

Actually, I've been using Kayak to get all my information. And looking at it again, they fly out far more than Wed/Sat! Looks like daily flights even. American flies out at 2:40pm daily, to San Juan.

 

Using tomorrow, 4/18, as the date:

Air Canada flight Thursday 4/21 is cheapest, $1005

American flight ON 4/18 is next, $1058

 

Air France flights are far more expensive. In the $5000 range.

 

I have no idea what he would have done given better options. However, I do not see that those options were unavailable to him. The only way off of Guadeloupe through Haiti is Air France. Air France is NOT the only carrier out of Guadeloupe.

 

Again, you are looking at CURRENT information. Again, neither you nor I knew the situation at that given time. Again, the other flights AT THAT TIME may have been full or more expensive. It really doesn't matter what is available now, we don't know what was available THEN.

[sasset]

Actually, I've been using Kayak to get all my information. And looking at it again, they fly out far more than Wed/Sat! Looks like daily flights even. American flies out at 2:40pm daily, to San Juan.

 

Using tomorrow, 4/18, as the date:

Air Canada flight Thursday 4/21 is cheapest, $1005

American flight ON 4/18 is next, $1058

 

Air France flights are far more expensive. In the $5000 range.

 

I have no idea what he would have done given better options. However, I do not see that those options were unavailable to him. The only way off of Guadeloupe through Haiti is Air France. Air France is NOT the only carrier out of Guadeloupe.

 

Unless you can go back and check the date he had to fly, in February, you really don't know his options. Scheduling in February may be more or less frequent than April. Flight frequency can change seasonally among other reasons.

[discjoker]

Unless you can go back and check the date he had to fly, in February, you really don't know his options. Scheduling in February may be more or less frequent than April. Flight frequency can change seasonally among other reasons.

 

Exactly! Thank you for "picking up what I am putting down".

[Bridge Maven]

Rhetorical question - Does being disabled give a person the right to feel that rules do not apply to him and if he chooses to ignore them everyone involved is obligated to make accommodations to compensate for his decision to do so? That would be like saying that stealing is a crime if you are wealthy but perfectly acceptable if you are poor.

[etoile]

Unless you can go back and check the date he had to fly, in February, you really don't know his options. Scheduling in February may be more or less frequent than April. Flight frequency can change seasonally among other reasons.

 

My apologies. Your point is well taken. I had thought this was a recent event, I forgot that the cruise was back in February.

 

Although I would think that trips to the Caribbean would be even MORE frequent when it's cold in North America!

 

But you're right, there are more factors than I was taking into consideration. Still, I doubt flying through Haiti was his only option - but perhaps the best one at the time. I did not mean to imply that he should have done something else, only that I found other flights available that did not include a stop in Haiti.

 

(I do agree with the posters who have said that the airport is not likely a hotbed for cholera and that he is including this gripe to make his story more dramatic. But that's beside the point.)

 

Now back to reading...I'm on page 13 now. :D

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Don't forget that the OP could have flown a family member to the ship or one of his many friends that he had made thru the years via his high ranking position with the ADA. That was another option. Or he could possibly have persuaded one of the passengers to help out. So this would have cost him much less than a private nurse. My suspicion is that his wife just didn't want to go- unless she was terminally ill. And I seriously doubt this or he wouldn't or shouldn't have left her home in the first place.

So the whole thing sounds like no one wanted to travel with him given the type of cruise it was. None of my friends would have any interest in a nude cruise- I did poll 3 or them ages 30, 47 and 63 and their reactions were disbelief and one used to dance on NCL as a paid employee and he had never even heard of nude cruises. In fact, he literally fell over and said "that's disgusting" when I asked him about it. So even though people say "Cest L' Vie" Let live and let live... ask yourself if you would want to spend your vacation on a nude cruise.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

double post