Denied china visa update: Holland changes mind

[Martyjac]

Here's the latest on our 70-day Grand Asia off and on again cruise involving my denied visa to China, because I'm a felon from 20 years ago. So...after days of deliberation we've made another decision. You see first the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco denied my visa "without giving an explanation". Remembering we booked this trip on board the Rotterdam last December and paid for the Grand Asia trip in full 3 months ago. Then I'm told by TA that I can apply for my needed visa China, Austrailia was ok'd, others he said I can book on board. In the interiam, I got an email that Holland would let me board the ship, but I could not get off in China. Hooray! This was great news until...I wrote Holland that I would like a letter in writing to this affect. The day after, it was a reversal of fortune as my TA informed me Holland changed their minds. Of course this made me think Holland never had the authority to allow me in the China territory anyway, or why would they not send me a letter, if the immagration wanted some proof?? So...here's what Holland says my options are, no refunds eitherway. We must board in Seattle, get off in Korea, fly to Hong Kong, wait 13 days while the ship cruises China, then we can reboard and do the rest of the cruise. Our only other option is to lose all of our money if we don't do this trip. This is costing us an additional 5K for air and hotel in Hong Kong. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

[kazu]

Here's the latest on our 70-day Grand Asia off and on again cruise involving my denied visa to China, because I'm a felon from 20 years ago. So...after days of deliberation we've made another decision. You see first the Chinese Consulate in San Francisco denied my visa "without giving an explanation". Remembering we booked this trip on board the Rotterdam last December and paid for the Grand Asia trip in full 3 months ago. Then I'm told by TA that I can apply for my needed visa China, Austrailia was ok'd, others he said I can book on board. In the interiam, I got an email that Holland would let me board the ship, but I could not get off in China. Hooray! This was great news until...I wrote Holland that I would like a letter in writing to this affect. The day after, it was a reversal of fortune as my TA informed me Holland changed their minds. Of course this made me think Holland never had the authority to allow me in the China territory anyway, or why would they not send me a letter, if the immagration wanted some proof?? So...here's what Holland says my options are, no refunds eitherway. We must board in Seattle, get off in Korea, fly to Hong Kong, wait 13 days while the ship cruises China, then we can reboard and do the rest of the cruise. Our only other option is to lose all of our money if we don't do this trip. This is costing us an additional 5K for air and hotel in Hong Kong. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

Did you keep your email? I'm sure you did.

 

i think I would get on the phone to HAL now whether you booked with a TA or not and ask to speak to a supervisor. You need to get this straightned out (or put your TA to work).

 

they are offering you an alternative no question - and better to know now than find out when you board ...but here's the other thing - is there any help an MP can give you with your China visa? food for thought. Your felon was 20 years ago. you probably have an outstanding job now (obviously if you can afford this cruise) and do a lot for your community.

 

Why not see if they have any ideas or can help (perhaps a reference?) to get your china visa in place? Just a wild and crazy idea - but such things have worked before - they can contact the china consulate, etc and who knows? I'd give that a shot too;)

[HamburgAvonLady]

Can you transfer your booking/monies paid to other HAL cruises where you don't need these visas ??? Sounds like visiting China -- whether by foot, plane or ship --- is out of the question for you, period. Can your roomate find another to share the cabin and take your place ?? (you might be able to recoup some of your money that way). Did you contact your state senator or congressman about this ?? Unfortunately, a very, very expensive lesson !

[eh2zed]

WOW another turn now for the worse. I thought HAL may have been overstepping their authority. Anyway what about splitting your 13 day hiatus between Korea and Hong Kong rather than all 13 in HK. Another option might be to split the 13 days up even further by doing an airfare that has layover possibilities at n/c. We have done this before elsewhere. So for example 4 nights in Korea fly to Bangkok for 4 nights as part of a one way fare to HK and then go onward to HK for 5 nights. This gives you time to get to see each spot in detail. Bangkok might not be a good choice since you are probably going there anyway on the cruise but depending on the airline they may route through various centres. Your TA could research this. Wouldn't be any cheaper but would possibly provide more value.

Good luck

[xxoocruiser]

Having spent 15 years traveling back and forth from China when I was working, have seen first hand how strict China is on it's visa process. China is one of the stuffest on felons regardless of the fact that you may have paid your debt to society. Actually not so suprised on this turn about as HAL real has no authority in this matter as they are fully accountable to Chinese Government. HAL can't even get the ship cleared for others to disembark in China until the China Customs Officers have reviewed and proofed All passengers visas .

 

Regretably this is a very hard lesson to learn. The way I see it you have only 3 options

1. Don't go & loose everything. HAL really has no acountability here since it's clearly posted on it's website that all neccessary documentation (visas) is the passengers responsibility.
   
2. Find someone that can take over your half of the cruise assuming your not raveling with your wife or significant other and providing there's sufficient time for that individual to get all documentation.
   
3. Exit cruise in Korea, Fly to Hong Kong and reboard .
   

If you decide to depart the cruise in Korea and reboard in Hong Kong, in order to save money would suggest not booking a hotel in Tsim Sha Shui which is the main tourist as it can be very pricey. Instead look into hotels in Causeway Bay such as the Holiday Inn Express or something in the Wan Chia area of Hong Kong . Even Mong Kok. The subway system is very efficient and inexpensive. You can get any where within a reasonable amount of time. Also the Star Ferry between Wan Chai and Tsim Sha Shui is extremely cheap.

[vbmom87]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I wish it could get resolved in your favor. I do hope you follow others advice and try to contact your congressman/woman.

 

Frankly, I never understood HAL's response that you could go on the trip but not get off the ship in China. I was wondering what would happen if you needed off ship medical care while you were in China. It could have gotten ugly.

 

Good luck!!

[Himself]

I .hoping you could just stay on the ship and ehjoy the amenities

[Nancyquilts]

Imho, the most convenient and a less expensive place to stay is the Hong Kong YMCA, now known as the Salisbury Hotel. It's about 2 blocks from the Star Ferry and next to the Peninsula Hotel. The only thing it doesn't have is a bar. Try to get a room near the top on the harbor side.

[USN59-79]

Imho, the most convenient and a less expensive place to stay is the Hong Kong YMCA, now known as the Salisbury Hotel. It's about 2 blocks from the Star Ferry and next to the Peninsula Hotel. The only thing it doesn't have is a bar. Try to get a room near the top on the harbor side.

We have also stayed at the Hong Kong YWCA, also called the Ann Black Guest House. Large, clean rooms and reasonable price. Seems it was 3 or 4 blocks further back from the YMCA.

[Jalex63]

While I am a fan of HAL and have enjoyed cruising them in recent years more than any other, I must say that I am extremely disappointed in them for the way they are handling your situation. Sure I know that "technically" it was your responsibility to check out the visa situation prior to passing the cancellation dates for refund, but obviously you booked this trip in good faith and your situation is rather unique. I don't understand how HAL would be hurt all that bad if they at least allowed you to transfer your fare to another cruise at another time. Their hard nosed attitude about refusing you a refund or at least cruise credit bothers me. It is not the way to earn high regard for HAL in the cruising community. I don't know when this cruise sails, but surely they could have sold the cabin to someone else, even if they had to discount it they could offer you a partial credit?

[Martyjac]

Well, I appreciate all your fine suggestions. To add, I'm a caregiver for the 92 year-old lady who I take care of that finances the trips. She refuses to stay on the ship without me. Having to leave the ship in Korea for 13 days in Hong Kong is a burden for her. Now I've told my TA to book the Novotel in the Kwoloon side in Hong Kong near the ship terminal, so its easy for her to board the ship. The idea of splitting up the 13 days in maybe Tokyo, Bangkok is a nice idea, but for the lady to do too much she can't handle. Being the ship leaves the Sept. 26, time is the essence. I just might still try to get possibly the State Senator or our Congressman involved at one last attempt to get my visa approved. I really have no other options as HA gives no refunds, and won't offer any credit. Any suggestions appreciated.

[Martyjac]

Having spent 15 years traveling back and forth from China when I was working, have seen first hand how strict China is on it's visa process. China is one of the stuffest on felons regardless of the fact that you may have paid your debt to society. Actually not so suprised on this turn about as HAL real has no authority in this matter as they are fully accountable to Chinese Government. HAL can't even get the ship cleared for others to disembark in China until the China Customs Officers have reviewed and proofed All passengers visas .

 

 

Regretably this is a very hard lesson to learn. The way I see it you have only 3 options

1. Don't go & loose everything. HAL really has no acountability here since it's clearly posted on it's website that all neccessary documentation (visas) is the passengers responsibility.
   
2. Find someone that can take over your half of the cruise assuming your not raveling with your wife or significant other and providing there's sufficient time for that individual to get all documentation.
   
3. Exit cruise in Korea, Fly to Hong Kong and reboard .
   

If you decide to depart the cruise in Korea and reboard in Hong Kong, in order to save money would suggest not booking a hotel in Tsim Sha Shui which is the main tourist as it can be very pricey. Instead look into hotels in Causeway Bay such as the Holiday Inn Express or something in the Wan Chia area of Hong Kong . Even Mong Kok. The subway system is very efficient and inexpensive. You can get any where within a reasonable amount of time. Also the Star Ferry between Wan Chai and Tsim Sha Shui is extremely cheap.

 

 

Do you feel contact my Calif. Senator or Congressman could help? I told my TA to book us in the Kwoloon district at Novotel near terminal. Are you familiar with the Kwoloon district? The lady I travel with is 92 (I've been her caretaker for 11 years) and its very sad she has to depart ship also as she refuses to stay without me. Thanks for your suggestions.

[lovetocruise2020]

Im praying for you both!

They should just let you book another cruise, because what I gather, they sent the visa info after final payment and you were denied.

 

We all have a past- I sure do! We all were young and crazy once.

 

I would go as high up as I could with HAL, and see if you can do another cruise. Take it as far as it can go. Also contact your congressman.

[Tamaracboy]

As someone (or 2) suggested in the original thread, did you try with a 3rd party Visa Expeditor?

 

Sad to say that many times it is truly just a matter of $$$$.

 

Greased palms can open many doors.

 

Just sayin'

 

Best of luck,

r.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Have you thought of contacting your local congressman?

 

Hope you soon get things straightened out.

 

Staying on the ship would have been the better option.

[eh2zed]

Well, I appreciate all your fine suggestions. To add, I'm a caregiver for the 92 year-old lady who I take care of that finances the trips. She refuses to stay on the ship without me. Having to leave the ship in Korea for 13 days in Hong Kong is a burden for her. Now I've told my TA to book the Novotel in the Kwoloon side in Hong Kong near the ship terminal, so its easy for her to board the ship. The idea of splitting up the 13 days in maybe Tokyo, Bangkok is a nice idea, but for the lady to do too much she can't handle. Being the ship leaves the Sept. 26, time is the essence. I just might still try to get possibly the State Senator or our Congressman involved at one last attempt to get my visa approved. I really have no other options as HA gives no refunds, and won't offer any credit. Any suggestions appreciated.

Understood.

[Bippie]

Another thought out of the box - was the cruise paid for via a credit card? Can you request a chargeback? I know this is not an open-and-closed case for a chargeback but if you submit the claim that HAL did not properly mention the visa issue when you booked on board the other ship, maybe you have a case.

 

I would also recommend that you only ask for a chargeback for the pro-rated portion of the cruise where you cannot be on the ship. That seems fair.

 

You should also follow the advice of the others and contact your senator/congressperson.

 

Although this isn't a great solution, I can think of worse places to spend 13 days than Hong Kong. A beautiful city and you can take some day tours if you want.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

[vbmom87]

Another thought out of the box - was the cruise paid for via a credit card? Can you request a chargeback? I know this is not an open-and-closed case for a chargeback but if you submit the claim that HAL did not properly mention the visa issue when you booked on board the other ship, maybe you have a case.

 

I am not so sure this is the case. I think HAL notifies you as soon as you book by way of the written confirmations they send you that any visas are up to you to get for any trip. I think the OP was perhaps sent a reminder notice about the visa. I do know that any cruise I have been on, at the time of booking, I was given information to read that said it was my responsibility to get any visas I might need for travel. The catch with this China visa is the strict timeframe in which to apply and get notified. I agree with the previous poster who said that in this case it seems like HAL should be a bit more understanding.

 

OP: I hope you take all suggestions given to you so far:

 

Congressman

3rd Party Visa Expeditor (probably your best bet)

Another attempt by your TA to reach a supervisor to give you credit on another cruise.

 

Good luck to you and let us know what happens.

 

Also, no need to start another thread if you do get a resolution. Many posters subscribe to threads and we will get notified when you post another response to this thread or the previous one you started. We will look for your resolution here.

 

I am glad that HAL did you give you a way around this by stopping in Hong Kong and joining the ship after they have completed China. However, I do hope that somehow you will be able to stay on the ship in China. I hope your situation has helped others.

[xxoocruiser]

Do you feel contact my Calif. Senator or Congressman could help? I told my TA to book us in the Kwoloon district at Novotel near terminal. Are you familiar with the Kwoloon district? The lady I travel with is 92 (I've been her caretaker for 11 years) and its very sad she has to depart ship also as she refuses to stay without me. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

Contacting a Senator or Congressman probably would not help but if you want to give it a try go for it. This might even be an odd request for a Congressman and or Senator as they usually work to get people out of China and not into China. China is very tough on it's restrictions regarding felons. Bottom line one has to respect the laws of other countries just as we expect everyone to respect those of the USA.

 

The Novetel on Nathan road is a good choice. Though it's about 4 blocks from Ocean Terminal walking you will have to take a cab there on reboarding day. The cab drive will be much longer than 4 blocks. If it were just you ,you could just walk down Peking Road to Central and when you get to the light at Pekig & Central you pretty much there.

 

Do you know if you have to take all your luggage off in Korea ? Or will HAL let you leave things in your cabin and only take what you need for interim delay ? Ocean Terminal is both a shopping mall and a cruise ship terminal. For all the years I worked in Mainland China and my home based was at the Marco Polo Hong Kong Hotel next door to Ocean Terminal I really don't know if there is a back entrance to the cruise terminial or if you have to enter off of Central Road. If you have to enter off of Central Road, it will be a long walk and there will be no luggage assistance until you reach the terminal section Therefore I would suggest that you walk over there sometime prior to the rejoining the cruise ship to check out the lay of the land. Also the day of reboard you may want to consider bringing the luggage on your own and than return to the Hotel to get your other passenger. Think that might be easier for you. Also less stressfull for the other person.

 

Not trying to be presumptous but are you planning to bring a wheel chair for the person traveling with you ? If not than think about it as it will probably serve you well during the 13 day land time. Though when I worked in China/Hong I was living with MS but had no visible disabilities . Today I use mobility aids. Though the Hotel Doorman will assist you ,Hong Kong will have some accessibility challenges . What ever little strides England made during the their rule of HK have all been lost since HK reverted back to China. Don't stress out as you'll still do just fine. There's much to see and do along Nathan Road and the Tsim Sha Shui area. Depending on how mobile the other person is I do suggest getting out an exploring. Will put together some suggestions over the next couple of days that might be nice for you to do to do.

 

Don't look at this as set back but rather just an unexpected adventure. Hong Kong is actually one of my favorite places in the world. There's so much to see and do.

[USN59-79]

I think you should try to look at this situation from the cruise line's standpoint. When they arrive at a foreign port they are boarded by that country's immigration people. Sometimes these people come aboard at the previous port to prepare. They need to verify everyone's passport/visa before anyone can go ashore. Last year in Japan they took everyone's temperature first. If one passenger can't be found or doesn't meet the requirements, no one goes ashore. So they would be taking quite a risk allowing you to stay aboard in China. I think you should consider yourself fortunate that they are allowing you to board in Seattle and try to deal with it the best you can.

[kazu]

I think you should try to look at this situation from the cruise line's standpoint. When they arrive at a foreign port they are boarded by that country's immigration people. Sometimes these people come aboard at the previous port to prepare. They need to verify everyone's passport/visa before anyone can go ashore. Last year in Japan they took everyone's temperature first. If one passenger can't be found or doesn't meet the requirements, no one goes ashore. So they would be taking quite a risk allowing you to stay aboard in China. I think you should consider yourself fortunate that they are allowing you to board in Seattle and try to deal with it the best you can.

 

Totally understand the cruise line's viewpoint, however, there is just one thing that I have issue with. Yes, passengers are notified that they have to get visas BUT if you have to wait 90 days or whatever prior to your arrival date to get your visa, then you really have no control to know if you will be approved or not.

 

When we did the SA cruise, we had to get a visa from Brazil. Here, we could not apply until 90 days from when we would arrive. Since it was the tail end of the cruise, my final payment would have long been processed.

 

So, any of us can find ourselves in this quandry. I do think under those circumstances (ie proof you were declined and applied as soon as you could) that there should be some arrangements made. Fair is fair.

 

No one has control or can predict visa approval. We've never been turned down, but rules change all the time . This could happen to anyone

[cinnamon123]

hello,

i know it's too late for this cruise but you might want to think about

getting your record expunged. an attorney can handle it for you.

good luck

cinnamon123:)

[HamburgAvonLady]

We did a 30 day repo cruise to South America in 2009 (RCCL's Mariner of the Seas). When we boarded in Pt. Canaveral -- there were about 50 passengers who did NOT have their visas for Brazil even though there had been much discussion on these boards for many months prior to departure.( I realize that not everyone knows about CC and the great site it has proven to be !). These folks were bussed to Miami where they were processed and returned to the cruise 3 days later in St. Marrten. These extra expenses were out of their own pockets. I have no idea whether any had any criminal records or what Brazil's regulations are on that. It would seem to me that you would be denied boarding at your departure point rather than being allowd to board in the first place.

[vbmom87]

Totally understand the cruise line's viewpoint, however, there is just one thing that I have issue with. Yes, passengers are notified that they have to get visas BUT if you have to wait 90 days or whatever prior to your arrival date to get your visa, then you really have no control to know if you will be approved or not.

 

I totally agree.

[tcook052]

Totally understand the cruise line's viewpoint, however, there is just one thing that I have issue with. Yes, passengers are notified that they have to get visas BUT if you have to wait 90 days or whatever prior to your arrival date to get your visa, then you really have no control to know if you will be approved or not.

 

Sorry Jacqui but as mentioned on the other thread there are multiple entry Chinese visas that can be received with a 180 day validity so it's not correct to say you have to wait until after final payment to apply for one

 

No one has control or can predict visa approval. We've never been turned down, but rules change all the time. This could happen to anyone.

 

I don't think so as not everyone has a criminal past complicating matters.

 

The chargeback ideas is completely wrong for this case as that option is supposed to be only for clear cases of fraud, clerical errors such as double billing, or not getting what was purchased.

 

FWIW Having been on a two week Hong Kong & Seoul trip last Oct. I'd expect it could be done for less than $5,000 if staying a little out of the way so would probably take that and go with it as you'd be able to explore both destinations more in-depth.