Concordia News: Please Post Here

[sidari]

"What the heck has Fannie Mae got to do with the criminal acts that killed 32 people on the Concordia?" The same as the history of the USA!

 

Criminal acts? yet to be proved!!

 

"We live in a time when the creme de la creme is gone and the scum de la scum have taken over"

 

Well if the Cap fits wear it .... :D

[SomeBeach]

This is the only info I have been able to gather on Schettino. Can't find anything about where he was between graduating and coming to Costa.

A native of Castellamare di Stabbia, near the southern city of Naples, Schettino comes from a seafaring family, Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper reports.

He graduated from the well-regarded Nino Bixio nautical institute in Piano di Sorrento, in Naples province, 30 years ago, according to the news agency Adnkronos.

He joined Costa in 2002 as a safety officer, served as a staff captain, and was appointed captain in 2006, according to the cruise line.

Like all Costa masters, the cruise line said, Schettino "has been constantly trained, passing all tests."

 

If and when I have more time, I'll see if I can come up with more info.

Edited July 23, 2012 by SomeBeach

[Uniall]

"What the heck has Fannie Mae got to do with the criminal acts that killed 32 people on the Concordia?" The same as the history of the USA!

 

Criminal acts? yet to be proved!!

 

"We live in a time when the creme de la creme is gone and the scum de la scum have taken over"

 

Well if the Cap fits wear it .... :D

 

I spent 35 years putting them in prison. When I wasn't in a court room, I was teaching prosecutors and investigators at the National White Collar Crime Institute. What have you done except pontificate on the law, which is a subject of which you know very little. :rolleyes:

[Tonka's Skipper]

Vampire Parrot,

 

Who sets the standards for the Masters Certificate? I am sure that it is not employers/ship owners. But is it to international standards, country standards or insurance co standards?....please comment. Regards

 

 

 

 

Each country that has a merchant marine program issues licenses/tickets. The license program have various international requirements and standards and include the individual national requirements. Most require you go and pass a maritime college level program of 2 to 4 years or you work your way up from ordinary Seamen to Able seamen. Most require 5 years sea time as a Able Seamen, before you are allowed to the take the Officers examines.

 

In Europe to take your first level of Officer examines, you sail as a third Mate/Officer, after 2 years of sea time, you move up to2nd Mate/Officer. Then take a chief Officers/ Master exam, then after another 2 years your legally able to sail Master.

 

There are various specially tests and add ons,like security, tanker man, and now Watch stander (watch stander is a joke,if you don't know how to stand a bridge watch after 6 months /4 training cruises like in the states or 5 years as a Able seaman, you never will). That said it does add to the mystery of just what happened with the Concordia's Master!!!!!!

 

As a ship owner you have to have fully licensed/ticketed Officers and crew members as per the country your registered in require and the IMO. This is usually handled by the local Coast guard.

 

A small boat/yacht license is also handled by the coast Guard and does take some experience and study to get. It always has a region, ( Ocean within XX miles of shore, ETC.), and tonnage limits.

 

I personally feel everyone operating any boat with a motor or sailboat over 12' should have some type of license.

 

Vessel insurance does not really set the rules but require you follow the standards set by the country the vessel is registered in and the IMO and other international groups.

 

 

AKK

[DocF]

Each country that has a merchant marine program issues licenses/tickets. The license program have various international requirements and standards and include the individual national requirements. Most require you go and pass a maritime college level program of 2 to 4 years or you work your way up from ordinary Seamen to Able seamen. Most require 5 years sea time as a Able Seamen' date=' before you are allowed to the take the Officers examines.

 

In Europe to take your first level of Officer examines, you sail as a third Mate/Officer, after 2 years of sea time, you move up to2nd Mate/Officer. Then take a chief Officers/ Master exam, then after another 2 years your legally able to sail Master.

 

There are various specially tests and add ons,like security, tanker man, and now Watch stander (watch stander is a joke,if you don't know how to stand a bridge watch after 6 months /4 training cruises like in the states or 5 years as a Able seaman, you never will). That said it does add to the mystery of just what happened with the Concordia's Master!!!!!!

 

As a ship owner you have to have fully licensed/ticketed Officers and crew members as per the country your registered in require and the IMO. This is usually handled by the local Coast guard.

 

A small boat/yacht license is also handled by the coast Guard and does take some experience and study to get. It always has a region, ( Ocean within XX miles of shore, ETC.), and tonnage limits.

 

I personally feel everyone operating any boat with a motor or sailboat over 12' should have some type of license.

 

Vessel insurance does not really set the rules but require you follow the standards set by the country the vessel is registered in and the IMO and other international groups.

 

 

AKK[/quote']

 

 

Yes, the standards are fairly high in the traditional maritime countries. It is on vessels registered in flag of convenience countries that we see interesting situations.

 

I know a Savannah pilot who once encountered a Chinese crewed, Liberian tanker with no one on board who spoke English. The radar, depth sounder, and Loran (this was several years ago) all did not function. He had no choice but to take it upriver, but he notified the Coast Guard and they made the owner fix the equipment and find an English speaking officer before the ship could sail again.

 

I am somewhat in agreement about licensing small boat operators. I would like to see the Coast Guard Auxiliary or Power Squadron marine safety courses be made mandatory, but I really do not want state licenses.

 

Doc

[Tonka's Skipper]

Yes, the standards are fairly high in the traditional maritime countries. It is on vessels registered in flag of convenience countries that we see interesting situations.

 

I know a Savannah pilot who once encountered a Chinese crewed, Liberian tanker with no one on board who spoke English. The radar, depth sounder, and Loran (this was several years ago) all did not function. He had no choice but to take it upriver, but he notified the Coast Guard and they made the owner fix the equipment and find an English speaking officer before the ship could sail again.

 

I am somewhat in agreement about licensing small boat operators. I would like to see the Coast Guard Auxiliary or Power Squadron marine safety courses be made mandatory, but I really do not want state licenses.

 

Doc

 

 

The flag of convenience often use any license Officer from any country and its all very legal..Why?.................because that way the owners/operators can use the cheapest labor possible.

 

Some vessel operators do use top Mariners..........like the major cruise lines (of course some bad apples slip in).

 

A few nations do require licensed Officers from their home country........the US, Britain, Red china, Greece and a few others, but it doesn't make any difference because like Disney and Carnival Corp......the just register the vessels where they get the best deal in taxes, costs etc.

 

Liberia and Panama are the most easy in regulations....they have massive Merchant Marines, at least in flags.

 

I often do survey work on vessels with 2 or 3 or more languages in the crew. The international groups.E.I. ... IMO,ETC..... will not change that because it will cost the owners/operators more money.

 

As to the licensing of boat operators.....I'll settle for all operators required to pass a Coast Guard Axillary or Power Squadron course or courses!

 

 

Do you know how dam right scary it is to be on the bridge off the coast of Florida, on a sunny day and see thousands of boats around you, going every which way and know there is almost nothing you can do if one goes under your bow!!!.

 

 

Back when I was going to sea, for a few years I would give a little 30minute talk on the CG Axillary course on boating safety............basically called *Why you should stay away from big ships!*.

 

After I was done there were always questions. This one time a lady got up and said..young man.(back then I was still in my 20'tys)........since you on the ship have all that fancy equipment, why can't you stay away from us!.....Please tell my what you would do if you run over a boat?

 

Well I could not resist.,I told her that usually we just back up and chew up the evidence...........................This lady believed me and her chin dropped and her mouth was wide open, but she could not get a word out!

 

Yes I did tell her I was joking!

 

 

AKK

Edited July 23, 2012 by Tonka's Skipper

[sidari]

"What have you done except pontificate on the law, which is a subject of which you know very little"

 

I do not need to know the law apart from the bits i needed to know about in order to carry out my work .... :p

 

Now then what have i done? lets see ....

 

I have a trade for which i served an apprenticeship for 5 years and have exam certs to prove it, for 30 years i have had to clear up the mess left behind by some of the type of people you put away along with what was left of their victims! been at the aftermath of what terrorists bombs have done to a city and its stores, been unfortunate to see people die while trying to save them, taught fellow workers male and female about new equipment, ran a scheme for kids in my own time sometimes after work for 5 years age 12 to 16 in order to keep them from going down the wrong path and into the clutches of lawyers etc, worked as an official of my union in my own time on training courses and representing people at discipline hearings.

 

Tonka .... Great story lol, sure i read somewhere that the Queen Mary i think it was on her way to Scotland during the ww was zig zagging to avoid German subs and hit a navy ship and split it in two pieces having not seen it as it crossed its path.

Edited July 23, 2012 by sidari

[sidari]

SB .... Here is some more info on Francesco Schettino.

 

Costa Cruises declined to provide biographical information about its employee.

 

But it is known that Schettino comes from one of the most beautiful coastlines on earth. According to different accounts, he was born 52 years ago, either at Castellammare di Stabia, a notoriously mafia-ridden town south of Naples, or a few miles away along the Sorrento peninsula at Meta, which is where his family lives now.

His mother's family, the Cafieros, were shipowners going back generations. His father, Luigi, was born inland near Caserta. But at any early age he moved to the breathtakingly beautiful Amalfi Coast.

Schettino grew up looking out to sea. And both he and his brother, Salvatore, decided to make their living as seafarers.

His sister Giulia told the Naples daily Il Mattino: "[Francesco] loves the sea. He has always worked as an officer. He has a long career behind him."

She said he had begun his career with the ferry company Tirrenia, then worked for the petroleum group Agip before joining Carnival, the US-based firm whose stable of distinguished brands includes P&O, Cunard and Holland America.

Schettino joined its Mediterranean cruises arm, Costa, in 2002. After a spell as a second-in-command he was promoted to the rank of captain and in 2006 his career reached a new peak when he was handed command of the newly launched, 114,500-tonne Costa Concordia.

[cruiserfanfromct]

......

Schettino joined its Mediterranean cruises arm, Costa, in 2002. After a spell as a second-in-command he was promoted to the rank of captain and in 2006 his career reached a new peak when he was handed command of the newly launched, 114,500-tonne Costa Concordia.

According to this, Schettino joined Costa in 2002 as second in command then was promoted to the rank of captain in 2006.

 

From what I've read, (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong) according to several cruise lines, and what VP has pointed out ---- (thanks VP), the promotional ladder works this way: Second Officer to First Officer and then Chief Officer up to Staff Captain before they can become Captain. It took Schettino only 4 years to go through all these posts and obtain the job of captain? :confused:

 

Which begs the question -- why is Costa declining to give out biographical information? Interesting........

Edited July 23, 2012 by cruiserfanfromct

[sidari]

Ct .... what it does not give is what his rank was when he left Agip or how long he had been with them! or what level he was at when he left the Ferry company, it may be that he was a Staff Captain when he left Agip. It is not unknown for companies to refuse to give out information on their employees.

 

Found this in a Scottish newspaper from a while ago.

 

Yiannis Avranas, the skipper of the Greek luxury liner Oceanos, which sank in rough seas off South Africa in 1991. Avranas fled, leaving a magician who had been performing on board to monitor rescue calls and another entertainer to calm passengers by playing Beatles songs on his guitar.

 

“When I order abandon ship, it doesn’t matter what time I leave,” Avranas said after all the passengers and crew had been plucked to safety. “Abandon is for everybody. If some people like to stay, they can stay.”

Edited July 23, 2012 by sidari

[Tonka's Skipper]

According to this, Schettino joined Costa in 2002 as second in command then was promoted to the rank of captain in 2006.

 

From what I've read, (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong) according to several cruise lines, and what VP has pointed out ---- (thanks VP), the promotional ladder works this way: Second Officer to First Officer and then Chief Officer up to Staff Captain before they can become Captain. It took Schettino only 4 years to go through all these posts and obtain the job of captain? :confused:

 

Which begs the question -- why is Costa declining to give out biographical information? Interesting........

 

CT

 

 

There is no license/ticket as *Staff Captain*, There is only Master. Note there can be different tonnages, but most Ocean Masters are just , Master, Oceans, Tonnage unlimited.

 

Staff captain is just a position not a license grade.

 

AKK

[cruiserfanfromct]

Ct .... what it does not give is what his rank was when he left Agip or how long he had been with them! or what level he was at when he left the Ferry company, it may be that he was a Staff Captain when he left Agip. It is not unknown for companies to refuse to give out information on their employees.

 

Found this in a Scottish newspaper from a while ago.

 

Yiannis Avranas, the skipper of the Greek luxury liner Oceanos, which sank in rough seas off South Africa in 1991. Avranas fled, leaving a magician who had been performing on board to monitor rescue calls and another entertainer to calm passengers by playing Beatles songs on his guitar.

 

“When I order abandon ship, it doesn’t matter what time I leave,” Avranas said after all the passengers and crew had been plucked to safety. “Abandon is for everybody. If some people like to stay, they can stay.”

Wow :confused: sounds like AvranA$$ and SHEOTtino are blood relatives!

 

BTW the link to the PBS series "Why Ships Sink" works in the US - sometimes we are not able to see internet videos out of Canada and the UK, and I imagine the reverse is true. I did watch the doc -- there was a section showing what happened on the Oceanos -- very scary indeed!!!

[cruiserfanfromct]

CT

 

 

There is no license/ticket as *Staff Captain*' date=' There is only Master. Note there can be different tonnages, but most Ocean Masters are just , Master, Oceans, Tonnage unlimited.

 

Staff captain is just a position not a license grade.

 

AKK[/quote']

Thanks for this info AKK -- my questions were always regarding positions on Cruise Ships with similar tonnage and never licensing -- as I pointed out when I copied and pasted the rival Cruise Liner that had sent out an email about their requirements for the job of captain. I think another poster was inquiring about licenses. Thanks for your help.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Ct .... what it does not give is what his rank was when he left Agip or how long he had been with them! or what level he was at when he left the Ferry company, it may be that he was a Staff Captain when he left Agip.

This information was given by Schettino's sister. It has not be verifed. I'm still searching for an "official" biography.

 

It is not unknown for companies to refuse to give out information on their employees.

Especially when they have something to hide. RCI has no problem sharing biographical information on their captains: http://www.royalcaribbean.com/allaboutcruising/behindTheSmiles/profile.do?INTERVIEWID=11

They're not publishing what they do in the sack for God's sake. :D

[gatour]

Lady Peacock,

 

Media reports should not be used to make such decisions, since they are financially motivated. (More action/adventure = More Viewers)

 

It is unfortunate when a place, or a people, all get painted with the same brush.

Regards,

MorganMars

 

You just did the same in regards to the media, you just painted all media/people with the same brush.

[YVRCruiser]

I am not sure if I understand all the commentary on the qualifications of the captain's position. I am sure he met those of Costa, or the regulatory body. As it is, we have many events recently where "qualified" operators made errors or bad decisions. Air France over the Equator, Air Canada flying into Switzerland. Not to mention episodes of insanity....Jet Blue.

 

I won't even begin on the banking industry :)

 

Rob

[cruiserfanfromct]

I am not sure if I understand all the commentary on the qualifications of the captain's position. I am sure he met those of Costa, or the regulatory body. As it is, we have many events recently where "qualified" operators made errors or bad decisions. Air France over the Equator, Air Canada flying into Switzerland. Not to mention episodes of insanity....Jet Blue.

 

I won't even begin on the banking industry :)

 

Rob

True -- there are some very qualified people who make mistakes and take lives -- that's precisely why we don't need to add the incompetents to the mix.

[MorganMars]

gatour,

 

If you see it that way, I did not clearly communicate my thoughts, as I do not place blame on the media for the generalizations referred to in the second statement. The two statements are not related.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

 

You just did the same in regards to the media, you just painted all media/people with the same brush.

[MorganMars]

Costa actually has a very nice page devoted to each of their Captains detailing their background and experience at http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/HereForYou/SkilledCrew/KnowCrew/default.htm#1. Clicking on the Captain's name takes you to a rather extensive listing of their CVs. This is the first time I have visited that site, so don't know if it is something new or if has always been there.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

 

Especially when they have something to hide. RCI has no problem sharing biographical information on their captains: http://www.royalcaribbean.com/allaboutcruising/behindTheSmiles/profile.do?INTERVIEWID=11

[Vampire Parrot]

It is the case with many cruise lines (I don't know about Costa) that often, a bridge officer is required where possible to be certified above their position.

 

For example, a new third officer will hold a third officers's certificate, and they will be working towards their second officer's ticket. If they want to become eligable for promotion to second officer, they will have to hold a first officer's ticket, not just a second officer's ticket. Similarly, once they are second officer, if they want to become eligable for promotion to first officer, they will have to hold a Master's certificate, which as Tonka's Skipper says will be "Master, Oceans, Tonnage unlimited."

 

After first officer, the next step is senior first officer (which I believe is termed "Security Officer" on Costa), then Staff Captain/Deputy Captain, finally Captain. Note that Tonka's Skipper made the point that there are no specific license grades for these positions, as all of these positions require "Master, Oceans, tonnage unlimited".

 

Given that Schettino joined Costa as a Safety Officer, i.e. senior first officer, he would have already held his Master's ticket.

 

VP

Edited July 24, 2012 by Vampire Parrot

[Uniall]

All persons holding a position responsibility for the health and saftey of others (including but not limited to Air, Sea & Land Transport) should be retrained and educated to put their own own safety last.

 

 

Perhaps they should familiarize themselves with the words of the late & great actor Clark Gable.

 

QUOTATION: The things a man has to have are hope and confidence in himself against odds, and sometimes he needs somebody, his pal or his mother or his wife or God, to give him that confidence. He’s got to have some inner standards worth fighting for or there won’t be any way to bring him into conflict. And he must be ready to choose death before dishonor without making too much song and dance about it. That’s all there is to it.

ATTRIBUTION: Clark Gable (1901–1960), U.S. film actor, quoted in the autobiography of Adela Rogers St. John: “The Honeycomb”, 1969

.

Oh, I almost forgot, in my opinion this also applies to striking Public Safety Officers.

 

This explains why Clark Gable and John Wayne were good friends.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Uniall

[sidari]

True -- there are some very qualified people who make mistakes and take lives -- that's precisely why we don't need to add the incompetents to the mix.

 

CT .... No one has yet proven Schettino to be Incompetent and if he does in fact still hold a valid Masters liscence then technically he is still currently Competent to do the job!

 

Uni ... In the UK each working person regardless of their job have a duty of care to others under Health and Safety! failure to follow Health and Safety rules can lead to the loss of employment.

 

With regard to the first paragraph of your post, it is about time people took responsibility for their own actions and that includes not waiting until someone tells you to do it! and that includes cruise ships.

 

Oh, I almost forgot, in my opinion this also applies to striking Public Safety Officers.

 

As members of a recongnised Trade union they are entitled to strike, this is what makes the difference between workers and Slaves!

Edited July 24, 2012 by sidari

[Uniall]

True -- there are some very qualified people who make mistakes and take lives -- that's precisely why we don't need to add the incompetents to the mix.

 

CT .... No one has yet proven Schettino to be Incompetent and if he does in fact still hold a valid Masters liscence then technically he is still currently Competent to do the job!

 

Uni ... In the UK each working person regardless of their job have a duty of care to others under Health and Safety! failure to follow Health and Safety rules can lead to the loss of employment.

 

With regard to the first paragraph of your post, it is about time people took responsibility for their own actions and that includes not waiting until someone tells you to do it! and that includes cruise ships.

 

Oh, I almost forgot, in my opinion this also applies to striking Public Safety Officers.

 

As members of a recongnised Trade union they are entitled to strike, this is what makes the difference between workers and Slaves!

 

As a proud member of a trade union (Int'l Brotherhood of Boilermakers, Shipbuilders, & Blacksmiths), I support the right to strike for employees whose jobs do not include protecting the health, safety & welfare of the general public.

 

But, as a proud member of the legal profession, I believe employees engaged in the protection of public safety, health & welfare (lawyers, doctors, nurses, police, firefighters, EMTs, teachers, public transport, etc) should be denied the right to strike because their first and last duty is to protect the public, not themselves. The contra view is held by socialists who put the self interests of themselves and thier group before all others.

 

By the by, I was proud of our then President Reagan when he fired every single striking flight controller for putting their self interest before the public health, safety & welfare.

 

Just 50 years ago, working to protect the public safety, health & welfare was called a profession (for the public good, pro bono) not a job. I've witnessed neo socialist cheer leaders destroy "professional" and substitute "worker", in promoting the interests of marxist class warfare.

 

In the final analysis, Schitino should have either been the last person to leave the ship or he should have gone to his death carrying out his sworn duty to protect the health, safety and welfare every single person on the Concordia. And that is why he is guilty of a criminal acts and should be reviled, despised, hated and shunned by every right thinking person in society, long before a judge or jury renders their decision.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Uniall

[cruiserfanfromct]

Costa actually has a very nice page devoted to each of their Captains detailing their background and experience at http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/USA/HereForYou/SkilledCrew/KnowCrew/default.htm#1. Clicking on the Captain's name takes you to a rather extensive listing of their CVs. This is the first time I have visited that site, so don't know if it is something new or if has always been there.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

Thanks for this info and link MM. Costa totally revamped its website after the disaster though. I don't believe there was any bio info for Schettino posted prior, otherwise, even if Costa promptly deleted it, it would have been available through Google cache or other computer forensic means -- there are Italian investigative journalists that are after this information like blood hounds and if was there to begin with, they would have found it.

[cruiserfanfromct]

CT .... No one has yet proven Schettino to be Incompetent and if he does in fact still hold a valid Masters liscence then technically he is still currently Competent to do the job!

Sure Sid -- and the ultimate testament to his competency lies stricken off the shore of Giglio. Tell that to the families of the 32 people who transitioned from a cruise vacation to their watery graves.