Not thrilled with being forced to pre pay tips for My Time Dining

[akcruz]

I love tipping when I am using the venue but not so thrilled when I am not even in the place. :rolleyes:

 

I hear you, but this is where cruises are different than a land based vacation. The staff is onboard and the facilities are there for you to use. If you decide to not use them, the staff supporting that area (MDR, Windjammer, etc) are out of luck.

 

In a land based vacation situation, a restaurant is open for whoever wants to show up and those individuals change on a daily basis.

 

Unfortunately the cruise lines sort of count on the tips the passengers pay to pay the staff their salary. I have started thinking about "tips" on cruises as truly a surcharge. I really wish the cruise lines would name it what it truly is, or just include it in the base fair.

 

To think about it in a different way, the performers are there to entertain you. If you decide to not go to the show, they still perform and get paid. You are paying for them to perform whether you go or not. The difference is this is buried in your base cruise fare while the "tips" are on top of it and named wrong.

 

I know a lot of people will disagree, but this is the way I've come to grips with it all. Of course, if I get crappy service somewhere that I did use, I will make sure to adjust my "tips" accordingly, but have always been more than happy with the service on board.

[praline3001]

But see that is exactly my beef with it. We were talking about MTD, not traditional dining. With MTD you get "whoever" is working your table.

The pre paid tip does not go to any particular server.

 

They service many people and many tables during the week. IT is true that with traditional dining the server can't work another table so are out of luck if you don't tip ... but not so with MTD.

 

 

There have been many complaints about the food in the main dining room for the Allure (the ship we are going on next month) Many have stated that RC was making the food not as good to encourage people to eat in the pricey specialty places. If this is the case and if in the future this is the way cruises are going something needs to be done about the tips. Either employ less folks in the main dining room or transfer them to the other dining venues. I am NOT donating for a charity. I am tipping for a service provided. I don't care for the free entitlements or nature of a pity tip.

 

If a server provides a service for me ~ I tip and I do so happily and am a very heavy tipper ~ most people tell me I am too heavy with my tips lol

However this is a Cruise on Royal Caribbean, not UNICEF :rolleyes:

[akcruz]

But see that is exactly my beef with it. We were talking about MTD, not traditional dining. With MTD you get "whoever" is working your table.

The pre paid tip does not go to any particular server.

 

They service many people and many tables during the week. IT is true that with traditional dining the server can't work another table so are out of luck if you don't tip ... but not so with MTD.

 

 

There have been many complaints about the food in the main dining room for the Allure (the ship we are going on next month) Many have stated that RC was making the food not as good to encourage people to eat in the pricey specialty places. If this is the case and if in the future this is the way cruises are going something needs to be done about the tips. Either employ less folks in the main dining room or transfer them to the other dining venues. I am NOT donating for a charity. I am tipping for a service provided. I don't care for the free entitlements or nature of a pity tip.

 

If a server provides a service for me ~ I tip and I do so happily and am a very heavy tipper ~ most people tell me I am too heavy with my tips lol

However this is a Cruise on Royal Caribbean, not UNICEF :rolleyes:

 

The statement above in red is the one that I disagree with. If 100 people are signed up for MTD, then the TEAM of waiters in the MTD area are expecting to serve 100 people combined. All the tips for this area are pooled and split between the wait staff. All the waiters are there all night long expecting to work. If only 50 people show up in MTD that night why should they suffer? While the waiters in MTD may not serve the same people each night, they are there to serve the same amount of people each night. So it really is the same as traditional with a twist.

[praline3001]

The statement above in red is the one that I disagree with. If 100 people are signed up for MTD, then the TEAM of waiters in the MTD area are expecting to serve 100 people combined. All the tips for this area are pooled and split between the wait staff. All the waiters are there all night long expecting to work. If only 50 people show up in MTD that night why should they suffer? While the waiters in MTD may not serve the same people each night, they are there to serve the same amount of people each night. So it really is the same as traditional with a twist.

 

As a paying customer, that is not my fault nor my responsibility. I can't help how many they staff in the dining area. I am not donating to a charity.

 

If my son cuts our grass I pay him. If he cuts my neighbor's grass I don't pay him for that, my neighbor does. If the neighbor doesn't pay, that is between my son and him. I don't run up and pay my son to cut the neighbor's grass because the neighbor may or may not pay him.

 

As to the entertainment statement, yes the entertainment is there regardless if I show up. That is covered with my cruise package... its part of the $1,000s I paid to be on the ship.

 

How many guest run up to the kid's adventure area to tip those folks ... even though they may not have children in their party?

When I am sailing with just me and hubby I wouldn't dream of running in there and giving them a nice tip. When sailing with my kids, I will as they provided us with a service.

 

The daycare workers are there regardless who uses them. If they get stiffed, they are out of luck as well. It is socially acceptable to not tip them unless you use them. The same goes for the spa. If you don't go in the spa why would you tip the employees there? The spa workers are there regardless of how many people show up. They work on mostly tips commissions so if nobody is there, they get zero paycheck.

 

Why are the dining staff any different?

[akcruz]

Why are the dining staff any different?

 

But see that is exactly my beef with it. We were talking about MTD, not traditional dining. With MTD you get "whoever" is working your table.

The pre paid tip does not go to any particular server.

 

They service many people and many tables during the week. IT is true that with traditional dining the server can't work another table so are out of luck if you don't tip ... but not so with MTD.

 

I was commenting on your distinction between Traditional and MTD. The way I read your comment was you can kind of understand the need with traditional but not MTD. I was trying to explain why they really are not different. The wait staff is there to serve the passengers whether the same ones each night or different ones, but allocated to the same number of passengers.

 

The difference, which I explained above, is that the dining staff is paid mostly through the passengers tips (whether this is right or wrong is a different discussion for another day), while the others pay are built into the cruise fare. But, why should the dining staff suffer if you don't use them, just like the entertainment, day care, etc don't suffer if you don't use them.

 

Bottom line is that people will tip what they fell is appropriate and nobody here on CC or elsewhere is going to get them to change their opinions. If the cruise lines would change the word to surcharge or something similar it would be moot point, but unfortunately they keep the words tip and gratuity which truly do have a different meaning than what is intended in these cases.

[joe6666]

Jeeez, All this talk about tipping and so called MTD.

It looks like, for some people, decisions about where to eat are being driven by tipping.

Collecting full cruise tips in order to use MTD for half of a cruise is not a good solution.

Why doesn’t the cruise line collect all the tips from all the people on the last night of a cruise, MTD or not, and split it all up?

I know what I’m supposed to tip for a full cruise and I put that much in the little envelope.

Why can’t I eat at Chops and deduct my MDR tips from the little envelopes?

Why can’t I eat at Chops and deduct a days tip from my MTD prepaid tip?

Are we to believe that the people working in the MDR are going to give less effort if they don’t develop some special rapport with people sitting at one table for a week?

I see “prepaid gratuities” being given away as a discount. So why would it be so hard for a cruise line to simply advertise, “No Gratuities” and pay the crew and charge me for what it would cost in the ticket price?

[Paulxyz2004]

Jeeez, All this talk about tipping and so called MTD.

It looks like, for some people, decisions about where to eat are being driven by tipping.

Collecting full cruise tips in order to use MTD for half of a cruise is not a good solution.

 

Why doesn’t the cruise line collect all the tips from all the people on the last night of a cruise, MTD or not, and split it all up?

I know what I’m supposed to tip for a full cruise and I put that much in the little envelope.

Why can’t I eat at Chops and deduct my MDR tips from the little envelopes?

Why can’t I eat at Chops and deduct a days tip from my MTD prepaid tip?

Are we to believe that the people working in the MDR are going to give less effort if they don’t develop some special rapport with people sitting at one table for a week?

 

I see “prepaid gratuities” being given away as a discount. So why would it be so hard for a cruise line to simply advertise, “No Gratuities” and pay the crew and charge me for what it would cost in the ticket price?

 

That one is easy to answer. Yes they could do this, but only if it would be done industry wide. If it´s not done industry wide (at least among the mass market lines - I know some upscale lines do this already) they would need to advertise a higher cruise fare and people would not pay attention to the little "grautity inclided" detail, but run to the competitor with a lower base fare, even if the amount would be the same in the end.

[COMBOY]

OK...what it seems to me once early and late fixed seating inventory is filled they force new bookings into MTD and added prepaid gratuties to your booking. This amount is added to your invoice but not paid until final payment. I would assume RCCL would still allow you to wait list for fixed dining and if confirmed would take off prepaid gratuities. It almost seems like RCCL wants to forces you into MTD whether or not you really want fixed dining. So this is what I would do - just make sure you are waited listed for fixed dining. I'm almost 99% sure you get confirmed at some point as people cancel and travel agents return unsold group inventory. This will mostly likely be prior to final payment and prepaid gratuities would be removed from your cruise invoice. If not until after final payment, but before sailing then via refund from your travel agent. If fixed dining is not confirmed until your board the ship then via an OBC. But I think at this point you'll have to except prepaid tips and wait it out until confirmed on fixed dining. If in a rare situation you don't get fixed dining then you'll just have to except prepaid gratuities and leave it at that. I can assure you life won't end. :)

[PattyW]

I have two issues with prepaying the tips for MTD.

 

The first is that you cannot use OBC to pay for them. Why should you have to pay 90 days out? It makes no sense.

 

Second, and this was only a problem for my last cruise, it was very inconvenient that the room steward was also prepaid. We are a family of five who booked a quad room. My daughter was booked with her grandparents as a third passenger, but stayed in our room - yes all five of us were in there. With prepaid tips - I think my inlaw's room steward got the tip for my daughter, even though he didn't "take care" of her.

 

We put her slip in our steward's envelope, but it had her booked cabin number on it and I highly doubt he was going to see the money. We gave our steward some extra cash to cover my daughter just in case, but it doesn't seem fair that the other steward got something for nothing.

[joe6666]

Look…. The very idea that they don’t have enough MDR seating for all the passengers in two shifts is ridiculous.

What they are doing now is forcing some people into MTD and making them pay gratuities up front for every night of the cruise, even if those people know they have reservations for some nights at Chops.

And this nonsense is being driven by collecting gratuities up front; making sure the wait staff gets their gratuity.

So not only are passengers forced to pay gratuities without regard for the actual quality of service, they are forced to pay gratuities for evenings where they are not even in the MDR.

I’m all for giving the staff their gratuities. I just think there must be a better way to do it.

[Heidils]

Look…. The very idea that they don’t have enough MDR seating for all the passengers in two shifts is ridiculous.

What they are doing now is forcing some people into MTD and making them pay gratuities up front for every night of the cruise, even if those people know they have reservations for some nights at Chops.

And this nonsense is being driven by collecting gratuities up front; making sure the wait staff gets their gratuity.

So not only are passengers forced to pay gratuities without regard for the actual quality of service, they are forced to pay gratuities for evenings where they are not even in the MDR.

I’m all for giving the staff their gratuities. I just think there must be a better way to do it.

 

As a former waitress and bartender i can't even think that someone should "Prepay me." TIPS was meant to be To insure proper service. Been on both sides. I'll grease the wheels slightly, but will tip accordingly.

[beer1234]

I have no trouble paying the gratuities beforehand. After all I'm waited on all day long. What I have grief with is being told the MDR early seating is booked up with 7 months left. I'm sorry but I consider this a big lie and intend to poke and prod till I find out why. I'll use the method I,ve gotten great results with most of my life. Go as far up the chain of command as possible and be persistant.

[Amberle3]

The daycare workers are there regardless who uses them. If they get stiffed, they are out of luck as well. It is socially acceptable to not tip them unless you use them. The same goes for the spa. If you don't go in the spa why would you tip the employees there? The spa workers are there regardless of how many people show up. They work on mostly tips commissions so if nobody is there, they get zero paycheck.

 

Why are the dining staff any different?

 

The dining staff are different because, like it or not, they get paid differently by the cruise line. They get paid a pitiful amount on the assumption that tips will make up the rest of their salary. If you don't tip the daycare or the spa, the employees still get paid - the tip is a true tip to them, a bonus. If you don't tip the dining staff, then in essence it comes out of their pocket because it's not really a tip regardless of what it's called.

[joe6666]

The cruise line seems more than happy to tell us what we should pay for each person per each day. So when we have to pre pay for one reason or another why is it a secret how the cruise line splits up the money I give them for gratuities?

To tell the truth, I see the cruise line chiseling every nickel and dime whenever possible, It's just hard for me to believe they aren't chiseling their own employees out of gratuities that they are supposed to split up.

I always give the recommended amount and I always hand it over in cash.

[karena1]

I have no trouble paying the gratuities beforehand. After all I'm waited on all day long. What I have grief with is being told the MDR early seating is booked up with 7 months left. I'm sorry but I consider this a big lie and intend to poke and prod till I find out why. I'll use the method I,ve gotten great results with most of my life. Go as far up the chain of command as possible and be persistant.

 

 

I am with you. I am going to pay the tips anyway, plus some extra. For me, one less thing I have to pay for once I am on the cruise. I never have enough OBC to pay for drinks and tips, so paying them in advance is fantastic. We always do MTD. Regardless of where we eat, the tips are pooled, so paying in advance is a great way to not have to worry about it. We get the envelopes at the end of the cruise, add cash for those we want and we are good.

[praline3001]

The dining staff are different because, like it or not, they get paid differently by the cruise line. They get paid a pitiful amount on the assumption that tips will make up the rest of their salary. If you don't tip the daycare or the spa, the employees still get paid - the tip is a true tip to them, a bonus. If you don't tip the dining staff, then in essence it comes out of their pocket because it's not really a tip regardless of what it's called.

 

Again how much they get paid is not my problem or responsibility. I am not donating to a charity or trying to exact social change. I am on a cruise vacation. Spa employees get paid less then the wait staff.

 

I am not sure why people keep using the "Because the poor folks don't get paid anything and are 1 step from poverty" as an excuse to why I have to pay them for services they did not provide me. That is called charity and the last time I checked donating to a charity is strictly volunteer.

 

There is no place on earth that expects you to tip for services that you have not used. The "fee" comes out of our ticket price. Per person that is not small change. On top of that ticket price we must pay extra money to dine at the specialty places. Why should I have to tip a waiter I am not using and then on top of that tip another waiter? That is double dipping and its wrong.

 

The waiter chooses to work on the ship. If he doesn't make money then he should choose to work somewhere else. It is RC responsibility to offer compensation if pickings are slim, not me. That is called a pity tip or charity and its wrong on so many levels.

[PhoenixCruiser]

Again how much they get paid is not my problem or responsibility. I am not donating to a charity or trying to exact social change. I am on a cruise vacation. Spa employees get paid less then the wait staff.

 

I am not sure why people keep using the "Because the poor folks don't get paid anything and are 1 step from poverty" as an excuse to why I have to pay them for services they did not provide me. That is called charity and the last time I checked donating to a charity is strictly volunteer.

 

There is no place on earth that expects you to tip for services that you have not used. The "fee" comes out of our ticket price. Per person that is not small change. On top of that ticket price we must pay extra money to dine at the specialty places. Why should I have to tip a waiter I am not using and then on top of that tip another waiter? That is double dipping and its wrong.

 

The waiter chooses to work on the ship. If he doesn't make money then he should choose to work somewhere else. It is RC responsibility to offer compensation if pickings are slim, not me. That is called a pity tip or charity and its wrong on so many levels.

 

Just where are you getting this information??

 

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[Debde]

praline3001:

Your not the only one who feels that way.

I also tip who serves me and will not book MTD ever.

Too many options and I feel those people who serve me deserve to be tipped.

[praline3001]

Just where are you getting this information??

 

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I could find link after link but then nobody would believe them lol

 

RC's spa is not owned by RC, it is leased by a company named "Steiner Beauty Products". If you do a little research you will see how unethical this particular company is. This has zero to do with Royal Caribbean as they do not own this company. Several times they have requested Steiner clean up their act on their ships though. By the time the spa employees pay for their supplies/room and board/ rent for their space and all the rest of that stuff they rarely make more then a $100 a week and that is with tips. Its is the worst spa to work for in the world. They do not hire very many Americans, if any. This little hiring practice enables them to ignore the American labor laws while in International waters.

 

This is NO bash on Royal Caribbean. Yes, their people work hard and its a tough life working for a cruise line. However RC is a fair employer.

Steiner owns the majority of spas on cruise ships on all cruise lines. It really doesn't matter who you cruise with, the spa employees are all treated and paid the same.

 

To answer your question, look up that spa company and consumer complaints along with employee charges for fair labor.

[yarlenna]

I am with you. I am going to pay the tips anyway, plus some extra. For me, one less thing I have to pay for once I am on the cruise. I never have enough OBC to pay for drinks and tips, so paying them in advance is fantastic. We always do MTD. Regardless of where we eat, the tips are pooled, so paying in advance is a great way to not have to worry about it. We get the envelopes at the end of the cruise, add cash for those we want and we are good.

 

I am with you! Well said :)

[travelplus]

A restaurant never asks you to pre-pay tips in America whereas in Europe they add a 15 percent VAT to the bill.

 

Here is the thing if you wanted to adjust your tips for any reason such as slow service etc RCCL I'm sure won't say no.

 

I like to pay the tips after I get the service as I feel like pre-paying a tip is a bribe and the servers know hey this family pre-paid and I'm home free.

 

What happens if your server messes up and does not do a good job and you pre-paid your tips to a server who could have used more training?

 

If you pre-pay your dining tips does this mean you pre-pay the tips to the other on board staff?

 

I would feel better paying the tips as part of the cruise fare and not have to worry about who gets what. If I really felt the need to adjust it I would talk with the appropriate person but I give people the benefit of doubt and let them fix whatever it is before I complain.

 

In fact I would like to have alcohol included and soda as part of the fare rather than purchasing it separate. I would rather see one charge show up on my statement either way you are paying for it. I like to know that if I pay $150 extra all drinks are included. Then I don't have to worry about it just like an all inclusive resort you pay one fee and that is it. If I'm not a drinker of alcohol I can have RCCL pro rate it. And for children under 21 they would only be charged for soda.

 

As part of the fee let us take on board two bottles of wine or champagne(:

[karena1]

AI like to pay the tips after I get the service as I feel like pre-paying a tip is a bribe and the servers know hey this family pre-paid and I'm home free.

 

What happens if your server messes up and does not do a good job and you pre-paid your tips to a server who could have used more training?

 

If you pre-pay your dining tips does this mean you pre-pay the tips to the other on board staff?

 

I(:

 

That is so not true. We have had some exceptional service in MTD. We feel like we get special service b/c they don't have to worry about a table of 10 to get there to get waited on. They have our drinks waiting for us when we get there, DH's appetizers are brought out as soon as we sit down. We have the same waiters every night and they treat us very special. yes, they know they already have their tips. So what!!! they still treat us amazing, better than regular dining. And what is nice about it - we can eat at our pace, not everyone elses. In 40 cruises we have never and I mean never had bad service - whether regular dining or MTD. But we will never do anything else but MTD going forward. I like eating when I feel like it, and we have found that we love eating by ourselves. We talk about the day and what we are doing the next day. Service fabulous and they earn every dime I give them

[Miss Fig]

If you don't like it why not go to another cruise line! Nobody is forcing you to go this particular cruise with MTD. There are lots of bargains out there, have a look. But perhaps even with a few strange conditions RCI is very good value.

 

 

These types of comments are so unhelpful. Why bother posting it? :cool:

[Debde]

Just where are you getting this information??

 

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she's getting it from here:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=947931

[Debde]

Just where are you getting this information??

 

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She's getting it from here:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=947931