Star Princess investigation

[whitecap]

Yeah, I'm biased in that I believe there is a high chance the birders actually did see that boat. Otherwise Princess would have dismissed this whole issue without so much as a press release. That they went into full defense mode shows that they at least also think there is a high chance it was to the boat.

 

Of course I can't investigate, but all publically accessible info so far has pointed that way. And yes, I admit it's a belief only.

 

At least you have now acknowledged your bias! All the publicly accessible information is from questionable sources. Princess acknowledged a "miss communication" amongst the crew, nothing more!

[vkuehne]

Yeah, I'm honest that way ;-)

 

And well, Miss Communication probably visits the crew on their ships everyday (in fact I did post an example of blatant violations of Captain Perrins' orders aboard the Star in Antarctica that I witnessed myself in this thread before), but I doubt that they issue a press release everytime. This time the misscommunication most likely had a bit more grave consequences than a few plastic cups overboard in Antarctica, and Princess acknowledged that with their statements, even if implicitly.

 

I understand that you and maybe some others wanna trust Princess and only believe an official investigation...but having traveled quite extensively in Latin America (can't speak about Bermuda) I can say for myself that as a Princess customer I'd much rather read a detailed explanation of what happened on the ship from Princess, as open as possible, than put blind faith in some "official" results from a country like Bermuda or Panama (no offense, loved Panama and the people, would never wanna go to court anywhere in Latin America though). I can understand mistakes being made, but I hate companies reverting to PR speak to protect their "image". And sorry, the more I think about that line that they haven't completed their investigation of a miscommunication on their ship after a month, the more I lose faith in Princess as an organization.

[Mom33]

Yeah, I'm honest that way ;-)

 

And well, Miss Communication probably visits the crew on their ships everyday (in fact I did post an example of blatant violations of Captain Perrins' orders aboard the Star in Antarctica that I witnessed myself in this thread before), but I doubt that they issue a press release everytime. This time the misscommunication most likely had a bit more grave consequences than a few plastic cups overboard in Antarctica, and Princess acknowledged that with their statements, even if implicitly.

 

I understand that you and maybe some others wanna trust Princess and only believe an official investigation...but having traveled quite extensively in Latin America (can't speak about Bermuda) I can say for myself that as a Princess customer I'd much rather read a detailed explanation of what happened on the ship from Princess, as open as possible, than put blind faith in some "official" results from a country like Bermuda or Panama (no offense, loved Panama and the people, would never wanna go to court anywhere in Latin America though). I can understand mistakes being made, but I hate companies reverting to PR speak to protect their "image". And sorry, the more I think about that line that they haven't completed their investigation of a miscommunication on their ship after a month, the more I lose faith in Princess as an organization.

 

They actually said they would wait for Bermuda to finish their investigation before speaking any further on the subject, so as not to interfere with Bermuda's investigation.

[boomerone]

vkuehne---please give us all a break and wait until the official investigation report is out. Do you get this spun up when there is an airline, train, or bus accident/incident? You want a full report but it's way too soon. These things take time to sort out. Princess is not going to let this die. Also, give the crew of Crown a break and enjoy your Greece cruise with your gf. If you don't ease up you may get an answer you don't care for and it could ruin your trip. If you are truly worried about safety of any sort on Princess don't go. I'd like to see Princess and CCL publish a listing of all the times their Captain's went to the aid of vessels in distress. Maybe that would ease your pain. I personally will be ignoring all further posts on this issue and I recommend others do so as well.

[caribill]

Hm, I didnt really say that I'm concerned at all about the safety of Princess cruises (more than on any other cruise line), but I guess some people like to read what they want ;-) I am concerned about the communication issues aboard the Star and fleetwide though, and I want them to be addressed so it never happens to me that I'm on a ship that sails by while some poor chaps that already have it much worse than us die out there of dehydration. So no, I'm not concerned about our personal safety but I don't want our pleasureboats to ignore cries for help again. Ever.

 

To help make sure this does not occur, I suggest that you and your friend take very high power binoculars on your cruise and take turns looking for boats in distress that are not in the field of vision normally surveyed by the bridge personnel.

 

If you spot any vessel in distress, make sure via multiple paths that the bridge is notified (dial 911, tell the purser's desk and wait while they call, etc.).

[vkuehne]

To help make sure this does not occur, I suggest that you and your friend take very high power binoculars on your cruise and take turns looking for boats in distress that are not in the field of vision normally surveyed by the bridge personnel.

 

If you spot any vessel in distress, make sure via multiple paths that the bridge is notified (dial 911, tell the purser's desk and wait while they call, etc.).

 

Funny you mention this :-) I have been thinking about that a lot since I actually am someone who stares at the ocean all day - I love spotting whales and dolphins (basically on every cruise I've taken I've seen some).

 

And a quote from someone else in this thread already is stuck in my head - can't quote literally, but basically - if I notice anything similar to what the birdwatchers saw you can be sure that there wont be anything left on the deck that can float until I'm sure that the bridge is paying attention (of course, a phone call will be first...in fact with a cruise buddy we played through this scenario a couple of weeks ago on the promenade deck...and it actually took us a little while to spot the self-calling phones there...had never noticed them on a ship before).

 

So yeah, while the probability is pretty low for me personally - if this whole sad story leads to cruise passengers being aware how they should act in such cases, it's already a great step ahead. Maybe it should be included in the muster drill: "If you notice what you suspect is someone in distress at sea make sure you call 911 and insist on personal feedback from the bridge."

[swedish weave]

This entire discussion has left some open questions in my mind.

 

Where is the connection between the Princess ship and the "big white ship with the name in RED.

 

If the sea was "littered with fishing boats" why is Princess selected as the culprit and why are the other boats not identified and accused?

 

Why is the "breakdown in communications" considered a factor in the fishermens deaths. No doubt Princess is concerned that the Captain wasn't notified, but that is an internal problem that is being investigated. It may or may not be important in the overall investigation, but it does NOT make the Captain guilty.

[WeBeGone]

I still contend that if Capt Perrin had known, he would have taken action. Since an apparent break down of communication occured, it is just so unforunate for all.

[johnmik1]

Ed Perrin emailed me that he was made aware of the situation in mid April and I believe him!

[swedish weave]

Maybe because from two miles away he said he could read the words "Star Princess" no matter what the color without the use of binoculars.

 

Could he have been "coached" by an incompetent attorney ??

[Mom33]

His very first interview when he was rescued made no mention of any ship. He never mentioned it till he was contacted by the birders. The description of the ship was made on a video and came straight from his mouth. He said it was a big white boat with red letters on it.

[Ethel5]

Could he have been "coached" by an incompetent attorney ??

 

I have to agree. I think there are persons coaching him to build a law suit.

[caribill]

Could he have been "coached" by an incompetent attorney ??

 

Sounds redundant.

[voyageur9]

Anyone interested in the state of modern maritime law vis-a-vis the obligation to render assistance upon receiving any sort of a report about a vessel in distress and the difficulties of enforcement may find the following paper of interest. It is a useful, easy-to-read and dispassionate review.

 

 

http://www.cwsl.edu/content/journals/Severance.pdf

[vkuehne]

Thanks for that link - that paper looks very interesting - great to get some background info about the laws and traditions surrounding this issue!

[cruiselvr1]

I was on the Star just a few cruises before the one in question. The Captain and his staff were very professional and personable. There would be NO reason to not offer help if help was needed by anyone. The law and ethical standards both say that you stop and render aid. No one would want the misery of wondering if you could have helped. The Company does not need or want this kind of publicity.

 

Having spent many a wonderful hour hanging on the rail of cruise ships and often with fairly good binoculars in hand, I do not see how they saw much of anything. First off you are at least 7 stories (decks) above the water, at some kind of an angle (can not see 360 degrees) and you are moving which means if the birders did as they said and brought the Captain's Circle host out on deck to see through their scope you would be well out of range of the tiny boat speck. Photos you need to be fairly close to tell color/shape of boat from the deck of a cruise ship. Watching the pilot boats etc from the deck can only see for a very few minutes and those boats are larger than the boat called 50 cent. Again watching from many decks as we and other cruise ships all leave at about the same time and make our way out of port, it is not very long at all before the cruise ship (and they are really large!) becomes just another large white ship -- hard to tell if it was that ship or the other one we saw. The survivor says he saw the name in red and he knew it was the Star Princess -- well does the survivor read English because otherwise how did he know the name? The name on the ship is not that big that it can be seen (and read) by somebody so very far away. IMHO this is not a possibility that the ship went by and that the surviving sailor saw, identified, read the name, and remembered the one 5 minute period of a 16 day nightmare when the Star could or could not have been in the area of that small boat. Tragic but I doubt if the problems of the 50 cent were in any way impacted by Star Princess. The cruise line is just trying to be sensitive to the tragedy because the back lash and bad publicity would hurt but this is another case of "they got money and maybe they will give me some"!

On 4 Mexican cruises, our ship stopped 3 times to see if a smaller boat needed assistance, and each time they took off. They were probably drug runners

[Mom33]

Here's a couple videos where the fisherman speaks.

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17532325

 

Here's one that shows a blue and white Star princess as he describes a white boat with red letters:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/14/world/americas/cruise-lawsuit/index.html?iref=allsearch