Do staff keep 100% of prepaid gratuities?

[Wakepatrol]

Cruise lines aren't only in competition with each other. They are also competing with every other vacation option consumers have. Raising the fares to include tips will cause X number of vacationers to choose a non-cruise option. I believe that's why the cruise lines do it the way they do. It is a way of hiding the true cost of the cruise.

 

Hal should make all passengers sign a document before you board the ship,no tippy,no saily

 

Think of all the time this frees up for the front desk. They've got an arsenal of stupid complaints to deal with,insted of el cheapo who wants the tips,service charge ,hotel charge gratuities charge or whatever term one might like to use removed,cheap is cheap!

Edited May 22, 2012 by Wakepatrol

[serendipity1499]

When this additional "tips" item first appeared on HAL's ship's billing statement it was $10/day PP and it was called "gratuity". Now it is $12/day and it's called "hotel service charge". So, what is it really?

It can be seen as a fare increase without the cruise line increasing it's advertised prices. If it is all going to the crew then wouldn't it be more honest to raise the fare by $12/day PP and advertise the fare as being inclusive of gratuity.

 

No not only would it be commissionable but the crew then would have to pay taxes on their earnings..This has been debated on this board since I joined almost 10 years ago but in May 2008, Phillip217 a Cruise Line office fully explained the reason why..Unfortunately I downloaded several pages of his posts but failed download the URL..This is what I downloaded:

Quote "For all of those who whine and moan about just adding extra money to the price of the cruise and omitting tipping altogether, you may be surprised to learn that the cruise lines have actually considered that idea a few times over the past 100 years. If we did it, that money would be taxable and commissionable, reducing the net earnings of our crew rather substantially.Unquote

 

Phillip answers several more questions throughout this thread ...His posts are very informative...I downloaded a couple of his posts into WORD, (4 pages) Phillip goes on to explain what waiters make on most cruise lines..He claims that all Crew are guaranteed a minimum wage in their contract: $1.00 per day plus tips with a minimum guarantee..This is part of what he said:

 

"Most cruise line waiters are promised a MINIMUM GUARANTEED SALARY of around US$1600 - US$2200 PER MONTH."

Remember Phillip said this in 2008 so the Crew's Union contract may have changed since then..

 

Phillip goes on to say that when ships go into dry dock, if the & waiters have not made their guaranteed minimum the cruise line must puts $$$ into the tipping pool..

 

If anyone has the ability to pull up the URL it might be worth it to bring the thread forward again or even post the URL on this thread...

Last year Bruce Muzz, another cruise line Officer also explained how the Auto Hotel Service Charge came into being..He said Psgrs have been paying crew salaries for more than 100 years but since 9/11 Cruise lines have struggled to keep their ships full & they had to make the fares attractive to masses..He said that for almost 10 years 30% of the Psgrs saved a bundle by not tipping, but the cruise lines were loosing many of their experienced & good service staff so they had to step in & start charging a Hotel Service Charge..

I know that our kids pay interest on their credit cards every month & it's probably much easier for many Psgrs to pay their fare off a few months before departure in installments on their Credit cards...

After their fare is paid off they can then still afford to pay their final cruise bill in installments with their Credit card company, instead of paying it all at once..

There are not many people like us who pay off their entire credit card bills in one lump sum..Read Bruce Muzz's post No. 21 here..

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=620368&page=2

Cheers...:)Betty

[Sea42]

I'm not sure I understand the taxing situation.

Do staff that are paid a salary pay income tax and to what government? If so, why shouldn't the crew pay taxes on their wages?

[serendipity1499]

Perhaps it's a mistake to allow people to remove the service charge :confused: Personally, I think that's what HAL should do.

 

Hal should make all passengers sign a document before you board the ship,no tippy,no saily

 

LOL...Love it!

 

Think of all the time this frees up for the front desk. They've got an arsenal of stupid complaints to deal with,insted of el cheapo who wants the tips,service charge ,hotel charge gratuities charge or whatever term one might like to use removed,cheap is cheap!

 

Bruce Muzz in the same post says that less than 5% of the Psgrs remove the Hotel Service Charge.. Unfortunately, if HAL did not allow them to remove the Service Charge they would sail on another line which permitted them to remove it..Then Hal might lose 5% of their psgr base..

As Sail said it's a hard call & a conundrum..

Cheers...:)Betty

[Wakepatrol]

Bruce Muzz in the same post says that less than 5% of the Psgrs remove the Hotel Service Charge.. Unfortunately, if HAL did not allow them to remove the Service Charge they would sail on another line which permitted them to remove it..Then Hal might lose 5% of their psgr base..

 

As Sail said it's a hard call & a conundrum..

 

Cheers...:)Betty

 

 

Do you really believe the guy removing the service charge is buying boatloads of photos,gambling in the casino,running up a huge bar bill?

 

Not likely,HAL should let these people move on,rather to take the chance of filling the cabin with a bigger spender.

[serendipity1499]

I'm not sure I understand the taxing situation.

Do staff that are paid a salary pay income tax and to what government? If so, why shouldn't the crew pay taxes on their wages?

 

What I believe Phillip 217 means is this..

Everything you purchase from HAL is subject to a United States Federal Excise Tax &/or it might even be a Washington State Sales Tax..Lets say you are going on a 10 day cruise & your fare is $500..

Now on that $500 the tax would be lets say 10% (which we know it's not.).HAL will charge you $550 just for your cruise fare....

Now lets say HAL collects the Hotel Service Charge from you..$22.00 per couple for 10 days will come to $220 more plus $22 in federal/state taxes they would have to collect from you in order to give the crew their $220..

Now lets say the entire fare plus Hotel Service charge is commissionable at 10%..(Just a guess, as don't know what a TA's commission is.) That would be $720 total & the commission would be $72 to the TA..

So to make up for the extra commission & the extra in taxes, I think HAL would have to charge you more than the original $500 fare & $220 Service Charge..or $44 more..

I don't know if this is what Phillip means but this is the way I understand it..

 

cheers...:)Betty

Edited May 22, 2012 by serendipity1499

[serendipity1499]

Do you really believe the guy removing the service charge is buying boatloads of photos,gambling in the casino,running up a huge bar bill?

 

Not likely,HAL should let these people move on,rather to take the chance of filling the cabin with a bigger spender.

 

Yes I do think they are spending in the casino & buying boatloads of photo's & running up a huge bar bill..That's why they can't afford to pay their Hotel Service charges or their credit cards may have reached their limits...

I believe that the 5% of the Psgrs will come up with any excuse not to pay it & you can be sure they certainly will not give $22 per couple per day in cash for tips..They will chinche the crew any way they can!

Cheers...:)Betty

[Wakepatrol]

Why can't HAL or any other ship for this matter,just charge the $11-12 daily call it anything you want and have it etched in stone. That's what every single passenger on the ship is going to pay.Period the end!

 

Why have an escape hatch or wiggle room,for the cheapskates who are lined up the last day of the cruise to have it removed?

 

This really is baffling (to me)

 

Thanks in advance

[sail7seas]

HAL does that with regards to beverage/bar service.

The service charge is put on bar tabs and (happily) cannot be removed. If you buy

a drink, you pay the service charge.

[kazu]

Why can't HAL or any other ship for this matter,just charge the $11-12 daily call it anything you want and have it etched in stone. That's what every single passenger on the ship is going to pay.Period the end!

 

Why have an escape hatch or wiggle room,for the cheapskates who are lined up the last day of the cruise to have it removed?

 

This really is baffling (to me)

 

Thanks in advance

 

HAL used to do that - it was included in the cruise fare - but they had to compete:D

 

There is the odd chance that someone could have a really bad experience in every aspect of their cruise:eek: so yes, if they honestly think that NO ONE has contributed to their cruise - they have the right to remove the charge.

 

The SAD thing is that too many people will use ANY excuse to remove tips well earned. We've had the odd person we were not totally pleased with but to remove the charge meant we were affecting everyone. So we didn't.

 

Bottom line - if you don't want to pay for the service - and yes, I still call it a tip - then don't go. You tip in a restaurant, at your spa, at your hairdressers - there is no difference IMO. And for my money, I have am happy to do it and add to it (my choice):D

 

Unless you are on a luxury cruise - this is the way it is - and HAL had to match. JMO - but before it was in the price - now it's not - bottom line, it is a part of the cost of your cruise and 99.9999% of the time it should be paid;)

[maysdot]

HAL used to do that - it was included in the cruise fare - but they had to compete:D

 

There is the odd chance that someone could have a really bad experience in every aspect of their cruise:eek: so yes, if they honestly think that NO ONE has contributed to their cruise - they have the right to remove the charge.

 

The SAD thing is that too many people will use ANY excuse to remove tips well earned. We've had the odd person we were not totally pleased with but to remove the charge meant we were affecting everyone. So we didn't.

 

Bottom line - if you don't want to pay for the service - and yes, I still call it a tip - then don't go. You tip in a restaurant, at your spa, at your hairdressers - there is no difference IMO. And for my money, I have am happy to do it and add to it (my choice):D

 

Unless you are on a luxury cruise - this is the way it is - and HAL had to match. JMO - but before it was in the price - now it's not - bottom line, it is a part of the cost of your cruise and 99.9999% of the time it should be paid;)

 

My only question is this....is the MDR Maitre'd D one of the people included in sharing the daily service charge? I have heard that the main reason people remove their daily service charge is because he receives $1.75 per person per day. Does anyone really know the breakdown of the $11.50-$12.00 everyone pays per day?

[cavecreekguy]

HAL used to do that - it was included in the cruise fare - but they had to compete:D

 

There is the odd chance that someone could have a really bad experience in every aspect of their cruise:eek: so yes, if they honestly think that NO ONE has contributed to their cruise - they have the right to remove the charge.

 

The SAD thing is that too many people will use ANY excuse to remove tips well earned. We've had the odd person we were not totally pleased with but to remove the charge meant we were affecting everyone. So we didn't.

 

Bottom line - if you don't want to pay for the service - and yes, I still call it a tip - then don't go. You tip in a restaurant, at your spa, at your hairdressers - there is no difference IMO. And for my money, I have am happy to do it and add to it (my choice):D

 

Unless you are on a luxury cruise - this is the way it is - and HAL had to match. JMO - but before it was in the price - now it's not - bottom line, it is a part of the cost of your cruise and 99.9999% of the time it should be paid;)

 

Sorry. I have to disagree. If it is a set amount that is added to my account every day, I do not consider it a tip. It is not up to my discretion regarding how much I give. It is a surcharge.

 

I would like the amount included in the amount I am quoted for the cruise. I hate the nickle and diming with hotels and their "resort fees" as well as these fees.

[slimsunshine]

Yes I do think they are spending in the casino & buying boatloads of photo's & running up a huge bar bill..That's why they can't afford to pay their Hotel Service charges or their credit cards may have reached their limits...

 

I believe that the 5% of the Psgrs will come up with any excuse not to pay it & you can be sure they certainly will not give $22 per couple per day in cash for tips..They will chinche the crew any way they can!

 

Cheers...:)Betty

 

WHAT A SWEEPING STATEMENT--------

 

My DH objects to being told what he has to tip - He says it is his right to tip what he feels he should not what someone tells him.

He is a non smoker- non drinker- non gambler. just an honest UK pensioner trying to make the most of his retirement with a very modest pension !

 

I agree with ---

"-Sorry. I have to disagree. If it is a set amount that is added to my account every day, I do not consider it a tip. It is not up to my discretion regarding how much I give. It is a surcharge.

 

I would like the amount included in the amount I am quoted for the cruise. I hate the nickle and diming with hotels and their "resort fees" as well as these fees"

Edited May 23, 2012 by slimsunshine
adding another quote

[fleckle]

...... . When I read $449 for a week cruise......... ?? :eek:

 

We have never paid anything like that for a week.

Well, they are advertising some 7 night cruises from $399 for interior cabins right now.

 

Cruise Deals | Last Minute Cruises & Discounts - Special Offers, Bargain | Holland America Line

[Krazy Kruizers]

My only question is this....is the MDR Maitre'd D one of the people included in sharing the daily service charge? I have heard that the main reason people remove their daily service charge is because he receives $1.75 per person per day. Does anyone really know the breakdown of the $11.50-$12.00 everyone pays per day?

 

 

The dining room Manager is salaried -- he does not get any of the Hotel Service Charge.

About 65% - 70% of the Hotel Service charge goes to your cabin stewards and the dining room stewards. The Pinnacle staff and Canaletto and if you are on a Signature class ship -- the Tamarind staff get a tiny bit of the Hotel Service Charge. The rest of the HSC is divided among the "Behind the scenes" staff -- kitchen staff, laundry people, those you see polishing and cleaning around the ship, etc.

[Jade13]

Perhaps it's a mistake to allow people to remove the service charge :confused: Personally, I think that's what HAL should do.

 

I agree. You can't remove the Service Charge from a hotel. A couple years ago I saw several people ahead of me at the front desk removing them. This was on a Maasdam cruise that pretty much ended abruptly after a few days when we went directly to the disembarkation port, but pax could stay onboard and use the ship as a hotel. I know they weren't removing the hotel charges for the following day/days because HAL posts them overnight. So, they were removing them for the earlier days on the ship.

 

HAL does consider these hotel charges because they automatically removed them for the days passengers recently on Veendam were off the ship to go to Machu Picchu, whether on HAL's excursion or traveling independently.

[Jade13]

The dining room Manager is salaried -- he does not get any of the Hotel Service Charge.

About 65% - 70% of the Hotel Service charge goes to your cabin stewards and the dining room stewards. The Pinnacle staff and Canaletto and if you are on a Signature class ship -- the Tamarind staff get a tiny bit of the Hotel Service Charge. The rest of the HSC is divided among the "Behind the scenes" staff -- kitchen staff, laundry people, those you see polishing and cleaning around the ship, etc.

 

Maybe that is why our head dinning room steward said he did not get anything extra. He specifically said he was salaried after over 30 years. Like any industry there are probably people who have been around so long their compensation package is different then the norm for their position.

[Jade13]

 

I would like the amount included in the amount I am quoted for the cruise. I hate the nickle and diming with hotels and their "resort fees" as well as these fees"

 

 

But everyone knows (well most people) that the Hotel Service Charge on HAL is $11.50 per person per day or $12.00 per person per day in a Suite. We always calculate this amount when figuring out our cruise cost. Our last HAL cruise was 22 nights and the one before it was 17 nights and we knew exactly what we were paying with the base cruise fare, taxes, port fees, and Hotel Service Charge.

 

Celebrity actually requires those who do open dining to pre-pay their gratuities. In their case they call them gratuities.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Maybe that is why our head dinning room steward said he did not get anything extra. He specifically said he was salaried after over 30 years. Like any industry there are probably people who have been around so long their compensation package is different then the norm for their position.

 

Yes --their compensation packages are different -- like you say.

[TheCalicoCat]

No, you are not ignorant. The OP was worded awkwardly in that the amounts alluded to in these various comments indeed are the Hotel Service Charge which is entered daily on your onboard account. HAL officially refers to this as a Hotel Service Charge and not gratuities ... and I don't believe there is a mechanism in place to pre-pay these amounts in total thru the website or prior to boarding.

 

We pre-paid - so you can do it, call HAL. (I don't want a big bill at the end so I pre-pay what I can.)

[TheCalicoCat]

DH and I pay a handsome sum as we choose to sail in suites. We pay what they bill. We see the price THEY set and if we agree to it, we book the cruise. If we do not think that cruise is worth that amount of money to us, we don't book it.

 

Isn't that what everyone does? Don't we all decide how much money any given product we are buying is worth to us? In most situations, the seller sets the price; not the buyer.

 

As to lower profit --- How much profit can there be for a seven day cruise sold for $57 Per Day? What kind of a cruise can they provide when some of the cabins are priced that low?

 

 

 

I believe it is a called a loss leader - they are thinking if they can get a couple in a room at $399 each then they will have more money available to spend on alcohol.

 

& you your vacation is what you make of it.

 

Those who are paying $399, go to the same ports as those in the suite & the are offered the same food options. If you are not going on the cruise with the intentions of staying in your suite/on your balcony for extended periods of time, then why pay more than that you feel is necessary for a bed/shower/place to store your clothes?

 

I just read an AK review & the person barely got off the ship in the ports (he ate lunch on the ship & did not mention buying anything) & probably had a low inside (my assumption - his aunt & uncle paid for his trip - 8 in the party) & enjoyed himself. (My guess on his fare - early May inside room double occupancy - though could be 3 or 4 $600 + airfare.)

 

My family of 3 is also going to AK & we have almost $6,000 invested in the trip aready including arifare, pre & post hotels, ground transportation, & a couple excursions. (I don't see us spend in too much above that as we pre-paid our gratuities & purchased drink cards/unlimited laundry package) I am 100% sure that we will enjoy ourselves.

 

I've read that other couples are spending $15,000. I am sure that they will enjoy themselves as well.

 

Just to show that the same trip can be had at many price points. (Maybe even on the same sailing.)

Edited May 23, 2012 by TheCalicoCat

[ms7136a]

One of the issues which occurs with tipping/gratuities is the cultural differences between North Americans and Europeans/Australians etc. when it comes to tipping. In NA, tipping 15% is a given, and taxes are an extra on your bill. In Europe, Australia etc. the idea of tipping in a restaurant or having VAT being added to your bill is a very foreign concept. HAL is an American Company, however, and people need to realize that when it comes to this, American rules do apply, even if the servers, and other service staff are more likely to be Indonesian and Filipino.

 

Insofar as tipping in restaurants is concerned, in the US, servers are paid less than minimum wage, in part, because they are assumed to receive tips of at least 15%. This is the assumption made by the Internal Revenue Service and they tax that income accordingly, whether or not the income was actually accrued. If you receive bad service, filing a complaint with the line is the most effective way to have an impact. However, refusing to tip on principle is just wrong. If you don't want to tip, choose a different type of vacation.

[Okie1946]

Is the $11.50 a day added to the total cruise dollars spent - therefore increasing the cruiser's points for Mariner Status?

 

Thanks

 

Previous Cruises:

Alaska - Westerdam - September 2009

Alaska- Rotterdam - September 2010

Mexican Riveria - Oosterdam - April 2011

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Is the $11.50 a day added to the total cruise dollars spent - therefore increasing the cruiser's points for Mariner Status?

 

Thanks

 

Yes the Hotel Service Charge contributes toward the $300.00 for each extra Mariner day credit :)

[RuthC]

Is the $11.50 a day added to the total cruise dollars spent - therefore increasing the cruiser's points for Mariner Status?

As Lisa said, yes. And here's another idea: if that brings you close to another multiple of $300, and you want another day, you can add enough $ to your Hotel Service Charge to bring it over at the Front Desk.