A level playing field please

[peterhof]

Hi,

Unlike Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines, including P&O, who offer a price drop guarantee, Celebrity continue to aggravate early bookers by suddenly dropping prices and/or giving massive perks to those that have not already booked, without passing them on to those, like us, who always book at least a year or so in advance. Up to this year, the UK head offices of all the American cruise lines gave large discounts to English & European travel agents who would mostly pass the discounts on to clients. This was always quoted as the reason that European passengers were unable to claim back paid monies at any time, even before the final payment date. Now that discounts are mainly a thing of the past (I was always given at least 12 percent from my TA) we in the UK should be treated the same as those in the USA.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that some manage to get free shore excursions, free drinks packages, onboard credit and upgrades etc. however, Celebrity should be aware that passengers do chat to one another and like to brag about the freebies they have got. To those that have not got them, because they either booked in the UK/mainland Europe or booked early, thus helping the cruise line in the process - it's like a slap in the face sometimes.

 

If nobody booked early and left it to a few months before cruise day, there would be a blood bath - with many cruise lines going out of business. The early deposits, especially those from European passengers that cannot cancel and regain their money, help the cruise lines to balance their books and plan their budgets. A few years ago it was unheard of to be able to book a cruise 2 to 3-years in advance - but that's the way the industry is going.

 

In the UK this week RCI are selling cruises on the new Sunshine Class ships Quantum of the Seas and Anthem of the Seas - the former comes in service late 2014 and the latter early summer 2015! It's those early bookings that are guaranteeing that RCI will be able to pay the bills. So Celebrity, rather than penalising early bookers you should be awarding those passengers that did so and stayed the distance with some goodies of their own

[Rick-cruiser]

Let me guess... you won't get any sympathy on here.. You'll get the usual "well, if you were happy with the price you paid...", "well you did get the exact cabin of your choice", "yeah, well the price may have gone up instead of down...", blah blah blah...

 

let's hope for some originality (maybe even some empathy).

 

.

[kjaooo]

yea there are a lot of messed up pricing problems within the cruise line industry. like the 200% I have to pay cause I travel alone

[peterhof]

Let me guess... you won't get any sympathy on here.. You'll get the usual "well, if you were happy with the price you paid...", "well you did get the exact cabin of your choice", "yeah, well the price may have gone up instead of down...", blah blah blah...

 

let's hope for some originality (maybe even some empathy).

 

.

 

I'm not sure if you are with me or agin me on this? So here is some more info

 

We are on a Celebrity cruise in June and talking to others on our thread. I posted some very similar sentiments after a few fellow passengers who had just booked were bragging about how little they had paid for their suite, which was less than what we paid for only a balcony stateroom, or what perks they had been given under the new 1-2-3 scheme.

 

As nothing like that was offered to us when we booked, plus the usual USA compared to European deposit anomily, of course folks across the pond are slightly miffed!

[peterhof]

yea there are a lot of messed up pricing problems within the cruise line industry. like the 200% I have to pay cause I travel alone

 

Even that problem is not set in stone - i.e. prices to single passengers occupying a stateroom for two are negotiable after final payment dates. A friend of ours wanted to go on a cruise alone and was able to secure her double cabin for the per person rate from a few months out of cruise day.

 

Whilst mentioning "Final Payment dates" - it is the practice of many USA cruisers, knowing that they can get their deposits returned at any time up to "final" day, to book multi cruises that overlap or even have the same cruise date. As American owned companies open up their cruises first to the USA market, all the best cabins have been booked by the time the cruises are open to the UK and European market. Is that a level playing field?

[lancashire_cruisers]

You might want to check out the P&O board before extolling the virtues of the so-called P&O price promise guarantee.

 

There are a lot of unhappy P&O regulars, especially those of us who either cruise as a family or solo!

 

Debbie

[cherylroslyn]

Even that problem is not set in stone - i.e. prices to single passengers occupying a stateroom for two are negotiable after final payment dates. A friend of ours wanted to go on a cruise alone and was able to secure her double cabin for the per person rate from a few months out of cruise day.

 

Whilst mentioning "Final Payment dates" - it is the practice of many USA cruisers, knowing that they can get their deposits returned at any time up to "final" day, to book multi cruises that overlap or even have the same cruise date. As American owned companies open up their cruises first to the USA market, all the best cabins have been booked by the time the cruises are open to the UK and European market. Is that a level playing field?

I am not sure what you are referring to by a price drop guarantee.

Royal Caribbean which is the sister cruise line to Clebrity has the same policy regarding price drops after final payment.

 

Both cruiselines allow you to adjust the price prior to final payment in the United States. Quite simply if they didn't you would be free to cancel and rebook at the lower price.

 

If that is not allowed in UK, I am sorry, but remember you all have strong travel laws and protections that we in the U.S. do not have, that is the only reason I can think of that the rules regarding UK/European cruisers are different.

 

I have seen posts about UK cruisers not being able to pook under the 123 Go program....so maybe it has something to do with the protective laws that govern the travel business over seas. There is definitely someothing going on, but I think we would need a travel professional to explain it.

 

But as I said in the beginning....after final payments we can't get price drops on either line in the U.S., I could get a higher class room and take it at the cheaper price, but I could not get $ refund on my existing room.

 

 

Good Luck with this:)

[4774Papa]

Hi,

Unlike Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines, including P&O, who offer a price drop guarantee, Celebrity continue to aggravate early bookers by suddenly dropping prices and/or giving massive perks to those that have not already booked, without passing them on to those, like us, who always book at least a year or so in advance. Up to this year, the UK head offices of all the American cruise lines gave large discounts to English & European travel agents who would mostly pass the discounts on to clients. This was always quoted as the reason that European passengers were unable to claim back paid monies at any time, even before the final payment date. Now that discounts are mainly a thing of the past (I was always given at least 12 percent from my TA) we in the UK should be treated the same as those in the USA.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that some manage to get free shore excursions, free drinks packages, onboard credit and upgrades etc. however, Celebrity should be aware that passengers do chat to one another and like to brag about the freebies they have got. To those that have not got them, because they either booked in the UK/mainland Europe or booked early, thus helping the cruise line in the process - it's like a slap in the face sometimes.

 

If nobody booked early and left it to a few months before cruise day, there would be a blood bath - with many cruise lines going out of business. The early deposits, especially those from European passengers that cannot cancel and regain their money, help the cruise lines to balance their books and plan their budgets. A few years ago it was unheard of to be able to book a cruise 2 to 3-years in advance - but that's the way the industry is going.

 

In the UK this week RCI are selling cruises on the new Sunshine Class ships Quantum of the Seas and Anthem of the Seas - the former comes in service late 2014 and the latter early summer 2015! It's those early bookings that are guaranteeing that RCI will be able to pay the bills. So Celebrity, rather than penalising early bookers you should be awarding those passengers that did so and stayed the distance with some goodies of their own

We live in the USA, but have noticed Celebrity's prices for 2014 seem quite high. We tend to book a year ahead of time, and that once worked out well since Celebrity will honor the new lower price prior to final payment. Still, Celebrity's 123 program seems to be coupled with higher prices.

 

I do not plan to book any 2014 cruises for a while. In fact, I may just wait until final payment and go with the cruise that gives me the best deal, even though the airfare may cost more.

 

We do occasionally cruise on NCL (we prefer X) and their pricing is more consistent. Booking early won't get you in trouble.

[Scrapnana]

You might want to check out the P&O board before extolling the virtues of the so-called P&O price promise guarantee.

 

There are a lot of unhappy P&O regulars, especially those of us who either cruise as a family or solo!

 

Debbie

 

Same is true with many Cunard UK passengers.

[Bruin Steve]

...Celebrity's 123 program seems to be coupled with higher prices...

 

Ahhh...There is the hitch...

We booked our June Silhouette cruise about a year in advance...We got a tremendous price...

 

Then came the 1-2-3 promotion...

But, considering it carefully, it also came with some higher prices...So, even if we rebooked to take the 1-2-3, and considering the value of the freebies, we would have been paying considerably more for the same cabin...The price went up more than the value of the freebies. Do you think that Celebrity doesn't take that into consideration when fashioning their offers?

 

It's all marketing...

NOTHING is "free"...

Just like Oceania's "2-for-1 with Free Air" promotions...Face it, that's the price--with air included...They will also sell you "cruise only" at a lower price--so, how does that make it "free air"...

 

All cruise lines do what they have to do to make the deal sound good to the consumer...

 

Now, cruise pricing DOES fluctuate...and it does vary country to country (even state to state--which they do by offering residency discounts)...

 

When we last cruised on Eclipse this past July, many of our UK friends on our Roll Call had Suites for about the same price we paid for our Concierge Class cabin...Yup, on THAT cruise, they were offering better deals in the UK...

 

And prices generally go up or down depending on how each cruise is selling. There is always a little "gambling involved". In the US, yes, you can book early, snag a good price...and then watch prices and jump on a decrease IF it happens...Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't...Sometimes you can get a better price but you may have to give up the prime cabin you took early when there was far more availability...and you will give up any other promotions or bonuses you got...

 

In the UK, you may have to lose your initial deposit--It is more to do with consumer protection laws in the UK and less to do with Celebrity (or any cruise line) wanting to be unfair...

 

Like with everything, there is no standardized pricing--anywhere--in a free market economy...You might buy a Television or a Car, then find out your neighbor bought the same TV or same car and got it for a better price...That's the breaks...Sometimes you are the one who got the low price, sometimes it's someone else...Just know there is no consistency to it...and there will never be...And also know it's not a conspiracy...It's not you on the short end of things every time...unless you are just that unlucky...or just not that good at maneuvering around the pricing strategies...

[Theologator]

I'm a little surprised that in our 24/7, global information age it would matter from where you booked? Is there any reason a UK customer cannot book through a US travel agent? I've seen discounts for Florida residents, perks for AMEX users, etc. I didn't know that Europeans got a different marketing push. I would hope you could shop for the best deal period.

 

We booked our January 2014 cruise on Reflection almost a year in advance because of the "1-2-3 Go" promotion. That promotion brought Celebrity under HAL and Carnival for the same 7 days and roughly same Eastern Caribbean itinerary, unobstructed balcony. Given the newness of the ship and Celebrity's reputation we thought that was a great deal. I was able to pick a specific cabin. Whatever marketing & promotions they do between now and our sailing is up to them. Risk/reward in waiting is up to the customer. My folks cruise several times a year, book early and are regularly bumped up into nicer cabins at no extra cost.

 

So...I'm happy, and I think that you should be treated fairly. Building customer satisfaction and loyalty is job #1. I hope you've made your point with them directly as well as here.

[kjaooo]

Even that problem is not set in stone - i.e. prices to single passengers occupying a stateroom for two are negotiable after final payment dates. A friend of ours wanted to go on a cruise alone and was able to secure her double cabin for the per person rate from a few months out of cruise day.

 

Whilst mentioning "Final Payment dates" - it is the practice of many USA cruisers, knowing that they can get their deposits returned at any time up to "final" day, to book multi cruises that overlap or even have the same cruise date. As American owned companies open up their cruises first to the USA market, all the best cabins have been booked by the time the cruises are open to the UK and European market. Is that a level playing field?

wait so how do I go about paying only 100 instead of the 200% because the only discount I have found is Tuesday special that sometimes do 150% but that's only like a month before sailing. you said there negotiable so do I call celebrity and try to deal like im buying a car?

[richstowe]

Whilst mentioning "Final Payment dates" - it is the practice of many USA cruisers, knowing that they can get their deposits returned at any time up to "final" day, to book multi cruises that overlap or even have the same cruise date. As American owned companies open up their cruises first to the USA market, all the best cabins have been booked by the time the cruises are open to the UK and European market. Is that a level playing field?

All the best cabins? I didn't realize how few of these there are.:confused:

[peterhof]

wait so how do I go about paying only 100 instead of the 200% because the only discount I have found is Tuesday special that sometimes do 150% but that's only like a month before sailing. you said there negotiable so do I call celebrity and try to deal like im buying a car?

Nope - you find a travel agent that is prepared to fight for you for your loyalty and busness. You may have to take a guarantee cabin and not be able to choose the actual one you want, but still the grade or better. Although the guarantee may have a proviso that you could be asked to share the cabin, this rarely happens. If it does, then you kick up a fuss saying that on religious grounds you cannot share with that fellow! Believe me, even when the line states that they are full - they are not 100% so. They have to keep some available for emergency movements, such as water ingress or sewage problems.

[peterhof]

All the best cabins? I didn't realize how few of these there are.:confused:

 

By "best" I meant Junior suites and above

[cle-guy]

By "best" I meant Junior suites and above

 

I got the penthouse suite 2 months ago booking 5 weeks out. Got a royal suite on my upcoming TATL tomorrow by booking 6 weeks ago, and in fact the final suite just sold out 2 days ago. My upcoming Cruise in November still has suites in all categories available, even PH and Reflection suite.

 

So it's simply not true all the good suites and above are gone that far out.

 

Level playing field, please we are in a global economy. For fairness, when I visit the UK, can I still pay only $2.05 for my coffee as opposed to GBP 3?

 

Can I decide not to pay VAT on my UK purchases, since I don't have to do it at home, it's just not fair.

 

Level the playing field by moving to USA and becoming a US citizen, or continue to enjoy the benefits of being a UK citizen. Or travel on Cunard.

[peterhof]

I'm a little surprised that in our 24/7, global information age it would matter from where you booked? Is there any reason a UK customer cannot book through a US travel agent? I've seen discounts for Florida residents, perks for AMEX users, etc. I didn't know that Europeans got a different marketing push. I would hope you could shop for the best deal period.

 

We booked our January 2014 cruise on Reflection almost a year in advance because of the "1-2-3 Go" promotion. That promotion brought Celebrity under HAL and Carnival for the same 7 days and roughly same Eastern Caribbean itinerary, unobstructed balcony. Given the newness of the ship and Celebrity's reputation we thought that was a great deal. I was able to pick a specific cabin. Whatever marketing & promotions they do between now and our sailing is up to them. Risk/reward in waiting is up to the customer. My folks cruise several times a year, book early and are regularly bumped up into nicer cabins at no extra cost.

 

So...I'm happy, and I think that you should be treated fairly. Building customer satisfaction and loyalty is job #1. I hope you've made your point with them directly as well as here.

 

Thanks for your sentiments and hopefully in the future American owned cruise lines will change their policy towards the ever growing UK and European cruise market.

 

Yes, we can book cruises in the USA and I did so when the Dollar was very weak against the Pound. Up to this year, when RCI, Celebrity, NCL and Carnival owned lines stopped giving large discounts to European TA's to pass on to their clients, many USA passengers found that booking in the UK and claiming the discount, saved them mega bucks. They gained a double bonus if the Dollar was strong against the Pound!

 

This has now stopped and from the start of this year certain cruise lines, gaining more of the share of the cruise fare pot, were able to offer incentives to everybody not yet booked. There still exists the anomaly regarding deposits being returnable to North American clients and not to European clients and for the reasons I stated about budgets etc. I fear that this will always be the case. So even if cruises are released to all world markets at the same time (which definately is not the case just now) North Americans will continue to book multiple cruises for the same dates, knowing that they can get the bucks back up to final payment day.

 

With discounts gone, Celebrity and the others will have to start thinking of how they can reward European clients for booking at home. Otherwise they will start booking in North America and be entitled to get their deposit back the same as you can.

[peterhof]

I got the penthouse suite 2 months ago booking 5 weeks out. Got a royal suite on my upcoming TATL tomorrow by booking 6 weeks ago, and in fact the final suite just sold out 2 days ago. My upcoming Cruise in November still has suites in all categories available, even PH and Reflection suite.

 

So it's simply not true all the good suites and above are gone that far out.

 

Level playing field, please we are in a global economy. For fairness, when I visit the UK, can I still pay only $2.05 for my coffee as opposed to GBP 3?

 

Can I decide not to pay VAT on my UK purchases, since I don't have to do it at home, it's just not fair.

 

Level the playing field by moving to USA and becoming a US citizen, or continue to enjoy the benefits of being a UK citizen. Or travel on Cunard.

 

Lets take your points one by one....

 

Your first point that suites are available now on the cruises mentioned just highlights what I am stating. When the cruise is FIRST sold to North American clients many of the cruises are sold out for the best cabins before they are available to book in Europe. At Final Payment date, when passengers decide which cruise they are actually going to go on, all the other cruises they booked get cancelled and their deposits returned to them (this is the part that is not available to European passengers)

 

Ok - so hundreds and hundreds of cabins suddenly become available after the final payment dates. European and other passengers booked on that cruise can cancel their original booking and book another higher grade of cabin if they wish - however, even those in the USA will lose their deposit and will have to start a new booking. Therefore, few if any do that. As a consequence there is a glut of good cabins to be sold and the cruise lines start discounting them. RCI and P&O now, have a guarantee that if your cabin grade is reduced, you can claim the difference in onboard credit. That is not the case with Celebrity.

 

"Level playing field, please we are in a global economy. For fairness, when I visit the UK, can I still pay only $2.05 for my coffee as opposed to GBP 3?"

 

This has nothing to do with my argument - Starbucks even charge different prices for the same pruduct in various countries. This is due to lots of local factors, including wages etc. For a cruise the product is the same, whether it is paid for in the USA or the UK.

 

"Can I decide not to pay VAT on my UK purchases, since I don't have to do it at home, it's just not fair."

 

Something else that has nothing to do with my points. I understand your gripe though as I do the same every time I visit California and other States that don't declare how much taxes are going to be added. At least in the UK the price shown is what you actually pay.

"Level the playing field by moving to USA and becoming a US citizen, or continue to enjoy the benefits of being a UK citizen. Or travel on Cunard."

 

Do I really need to answer this crass remark? However, I'm not sure what you meant about travel with Cunard - do you not know that Cunard are owned by the Carnival Corporation and as such are also an American cruise line? Cunard by the way demand a much heftier deposit on booking a cruise, compared to RCI that equates to Cunard = £750 ($1,125) RCI = £150 ($225). Thus, in the UK the deposit problem is compounded and a much bigger problem.

[cle-guy]

Admittedly, I'm not intimately familiar with cruise lines ownership.

 

Since UK has no owned ships, perhaps the reason is due to the onerous regulations imposed by the UK and Europe?

 

Level playing field, OK, then let's have the US airlines give US passengers same rights as UK passengers as to delayed flights and compensation for our flights. I can't believe that regulations over there require an airline to house an entire flight if there is a thunderstorm that cancels a flight and even provide outright compensation to passengers. Admittedly, not sure if similar regulations apply to cruises, but it's an example of the different customs and regulations of travel from one region to another.

 

Travel regulation, standards, exceptions, rates etc. are all determined on a number of things.

 

I believe there have been times too, where 123 was offered only to European cruisers, or sometimes they get to select 2 offers. I also hear of UK TA's giving credits and I have never received a credit from my TA, so probably cruise lines are enticing euro TA's to discount where US ones can't. Of course this custom may vary TA to TA.

 

It's all about marketing and finding the right customer. Probably less expensive to market to US PAX than europeans, so they may provide better deals to US bookings as the marketing cost per PAX is lower.

 

Using the argument that "all the good rooms are often gone", apparently its not so critical to attract european travelers since the US ones are booking nearly full well in advance. Although my experience shows suites are available well until the end. As you say it's due to the deposit problem, well now you know when to book, do it a few months out not a year out. Solved your own problem without the need for Big Brother to step in and help us helpless consumers.

 

Surely these types of european travel regulations have something to do with the "unlevel playing field" here more so than Celebrity or any other cruise line. I suspect the travel companies levy unrefundable deposits to cushion and accrue for any regulatory agency payouts that may occur under European travel regulations. If I ran a business, I know I'd need to accrue to cover the costs of government imposed regulation from somewhere, and that has to come from my income stream, and guess what - that's us the consumer. And guess what, maybe the cruise lines decided to impose higher rates, penalties etc. on europeans for this reason.

 

I also think travel customs have a lot to do with things, Americans just don't deal with nonrefundable deposits much, we generally don't do trip insurance. Heck most of us don't ever leave the country...I notice hotels in Europe often require prepayment or deposit paid in advance much more often than in the US, and in the US, it tends to be only on very early well in advance advanced bookings.

 

Europeans seem to often always get the travel insurance and I'm learning here that for some reason european cruise deposits are always NON refundable?

 

Supply and demand keeps the playing field level. Rates go up and down. People make decisions, then second guess themselves, then want to change their mind. I figure a contract (agreement) was made, an agreement reached, stop whining after the fact. Accept a decision and its consequences and move on.

 

When buying a car, you pay more for it the moment it comes available for sale, and a year later the same model may cost thousands less, IF there are any still left available for sale. Pay more for exactly what you want in advance, or chance it and pay less and maybe get what you want or maybe get something less desirable. That's the opportunity cost.

 

Losing regulation helps keep it level. If the demand wasn't high enough, the market conditions would have the cruiselines relax standards to attract passengers. For now, it's not an issue apparently, and the Marketplace will therefore allow you to select some other travel option, cruise line, or whatever that will suit your desires.

 

To be sure, I have traveled extensively internationally having filled 2 passports both with extra pages. Over time I've just learned to chill and except the various differences in travel standards. I've observed and been a part of dozens of different travel cultures and worked for Marriott hotels for many years in the past. I've been burned by many of them along the way and learned from all of them along the way.

 

In fact at this moment, I have a reservation booked at the W Leceister square. Booked a month ago, using advance purchase best rate prepayment, no refunds plan. Next day, get email from hotel marketing their buy 2 get 3rd free. Call to change, told no changes, sorry. Non refundable. I say I bought the best rate, and now there is one better, so I don't have the best rate anymore, so I want the best rate". The UK hotel says, sorry sir, you booked a nonrefundable rate. we can cancel and rebook if you like but you will lose the deposit.

 

So let's get the level playing field set on UK hotels too while we are at it.

 

But to my own advice, I booked a room at a rate I was happy with. it then changed, but I just have to accept my decision and move on. In this case I didn't beat the system, so I live with my decision, not bash W hotels.

 

And I am now also struggling with paying a high rate for a room I want on a cruise 1 year out now, or waiting 6 moths for rate drops and hope that room is still available. Do I pay high p[rice to guarantee my happiness with room choice, or is my happiness going to come more from having a lower rate and possibility of a less than desireable room. I generally prefer the room I want over the rate I want all other things the same.

[Christine Frances]

A similar question was posted on the Azamara board and their CBO Bill Leiber posted a response which explains the Azamara's policy/limitations dealing with the global market. As Azamara is in the same "family" as Celebrity and RCI, it may have some bearing on this thread.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1830180

[peterhof]

Admittedly, I'm not intimately familiar with cruise lines ownership.

 

Since UK has no owned ships, perhaps the reason is due to the onerous regulations imposed by the UK and Europe?

 

Level playing field, OK, then let's have the US airlines give US passengers same rights as UK passengers as to delayed flights and compensation for our flights. I can't believe that regulations over there require an airline to house an entire flight if there is a thunderstorm that cancels a flight and even provide outright compensation to passengers. Admittedly, not sure if similar regulations apply to cruises, but it's an example of the different customs and regulations of travel from one region to another.

 

Travel regulation, standards, exceptions, rates etc. are all determined on a number of things.

 

I believe there have been times too, where 123 was offered only to European cruisers, or sometimes they get to select 2 offers. I also hear of UK TA's giving credits and I have never received a credit from my TA, so probably cruise lines are enticing euro TA's to discount where US ones can't. Of course this custom may vary TA to TA.

 

It's all about marketing and finding the right customer. Probably less expensive to market to US PAX than europeans, so they may provide better deals to US bookings as the marketing cost per PAX is lower.

 

Using the argument that "all the good rooms are often gone", apparently its not so critical to attract european travelers since the US ones are booking nearly full well in advance. Although my experience shows suites are available well until the end. As you say it's due to the deposit problem, well now you know when to book, do it a few months out not a year out. Solved your own problem without the need for Big Brother to step in and help us helpless consumers.

 

Surely these types of european travel regulations have something to do with the "unlevel playing field" here more so than Celebrity or any other cruise line. I suspect the travel companies levy unrefundable deposits to cushion and accrue for any regulatory agency payouts that may occur under European travel regulations. If I ran a business, I know I'd need to accrue to cover the costs of government imposed regulation from somewhere, and that has to come from my income stream, and guess what - that's us the consumer. And guess what, maybe the cruise lines decided to impose higher rates, penalties etc. on europeans for this reason.

 

I also think travel customs have a lot to do with things, Americans just don't deal with nonrefundable deposits much, we generally don't do trip insurance. Heck most of us don't ever leave the country...I notice hotels in Europe often require prepayment or deposit paid in advance much more often than in the US, and in the US, it tends to be only on very early well in advance advanced bookings.

 

Europeans seem to often always get the travel insurance and I'm learning here that for some reason european cruise deposits are always NON refundable?

 

Supply and demand keeps the playing field level. Rates go up and down. People make decisions, then second guess themselves, then want to change their mind. I figure a contract (agreement) was made, an agreement reached, stop whining after the fact. Accept a decision and its consequences and move on.

 

When buying a car, you pay more for it the moment it comes available for sale, and a year later the same model may cost thousands less, IF there are any still left available for sale. Pay more for exactly what you want in advance, or chance it and pay less and maybe get what you want or maybe get something less desirable. That's the opportunity cost.

 

Losing regulation helps keep it level. If the demand wasn't high enough, the market conditions would have the cruiselines relax standards to attract passengers. For now, it's not an issue apparently, and the Marketplace will therefore allow you to select some other travel option, cruise line, or whatever that will suit your desires.

 

To be sure, I have traveled extensively internationally having filled 2 passports both with extra pages. Over time I've just learned to chill and except the various differences in travel standards. I've observed and been a part of dozens of different travel cultures and worked for Marriott hotels for many years in the past. I've been burned by many of them along the way and learned from all of them along the way.

 

In fact at this moment, I have a reservation booked at the W Leceister square. Booked a month ago, using advance purchase best rate prepayment, no refunds plan. Next day, get email from hotel marketing their buy 2 get 3rd free. Call to change, told no changes, sorry. Non refundable. I say I bought the best rate, and now there is one better, so I don't have the best rate anymore, so I want the best rate". The UK hotel says, sorry sir, you booked a nonrefundable rate. we can cancel and rebook if you like but you will lose the deposit.

 

So let's get the level playing field set on UK hotels too while we are at it.

 

But to my own advice, I booked a room at a rate I was happy with. it then changed, but I just have to accept my decision and move on. In this case I didn't beat the system, so I live with my decision, not bash W hotels.

 

And I am now also struggling with paying a high rate for a room I want on a cruise 1 year out now, or waiting 6 moths for rate drops and hope that room is still available. Do I pay high p[rice to guarantee my happiness with room choice, or is my happiness going to come more from having a lower rate and possibility of a less than desireable room. I generally prefer the room I want over the rate I want all other things the same.

 

 

Hello again,

 

I have no idea where you get your information from, but once again you are totally wrong !!

 

Firstly the UK has many cruise lines of it's own - Fred Olsen, Cruise and Maritime - to name just two. Also, Britain and to my knowledge, the whole of the EEC do not impose the regulations you think there are.

 

"Level playing field, OK, then let's have the US airlines give US passengers same rights as UK passengers as to delayed flights and compensation for our flights. I can't believe that regulations over there require an airline to house an entire flight if there is a thunderstorm that cancels a flight and even provide outright compensation to passengers. Admittedly, not sure if similar regulations apply to cruises, but it's an example of the different customs and regulations of travel from one region to another."

 

There is no such regulation that airlines must 'house' an entire flight for anything at all. Just go to any one of the London airports at such times and you will see thousands of people camping out all over the airport. Those that do manage to get accomodation have done so because their insurance (something that another poster has stated that USA folks don't even bother with) allows them to do so. The same goes for compensation - if any compensation is handed out by an airline it is always as a good will gesture - not part of any contract. Regarding cruises, all regulations, including return of deposits, are ALL issued by the cruise line - THERE ARE NO UK LAWS that cover this. We do however, have strict laws regarding the Sale of Goods Act, but that has little to do with this. Travelling from one region to another is also a "Red Herring" on your part.

 

"I believe there have been times too, where 123 was offered only to European cruisers, or sometimes they get to select 2 offers. I also hear of UK TA's giving credits and I have never received a credit from my TA, so probably cruise lines are enticing euro TA's to discount where US ones can't. Of course this custom may vary TA to TA."

 

Yes, your probably correct on these matters - but they occured BEFORE the no discount to European TA's came into effect (early 2013)

 

"It's all about marketing and finding the right customer. Probably less expensive to market to US PAX than europeans, so they may provide better deals to US bookings as the marketing cost per PAX is lower."

 

What a lot of codswallop! If anything it's the other way round.

 

"Using the argument that "all the good rooms are often gone", apparently its not so critical to attract european travelers since the US ones are booking nearly full well in advance. Although my experience shows suites are available well until the end. As you say it's due to the deposit problem, well now you know when to book, do it a few months out not a year out. Solved your own problem without the need for Big Brother to step in and help us helpless consumers."

 

I am assuming here that your theory is that there are more wealthy cruisers in the USA than in the UK? Undoubtably so, but believe me, there are enough well healed cruisers in the UK that are both annoyed and offended that the actions of these unthoughtful cruisers deny them of booking the stateroom that they want. Yes, as stated previously, suites can be available right up to cruise day, but mostly, until after the final payment date, they are all sold out. Lots of cruises therefore have a period when the cabins are all gone, followed later by another period when lots become available again. This should be clear to you now hopefully!

 

Regarding "now you know when to book" perhaps you are unaware of a few facts about frequent cruisers - the best time we are told to book a cruise is when you are actually on another one. Cruise lines love to promote themselves to a captive audience and where better than on a ship. It's when these "Book now and save" offers get eroded and superceded by better ones offered to new cruisers, that we frequent cruisers sometimes question things. Another reason why folks book a year or so in advance is to secure a special or disabled cabin. I am disabled myself and if I don't secure an accessable stateroom that far in advance, I will have no chance. Of course, some of the selfish brigade are themselves disabled and so those cabins are rarely available to European clients.

 

The line starting "Solved your own problem" is beneath contempt !!

"Surely these types of european travel regulations have something to do with the "unlevel playing field" here more so than Celebrity or any other cruise line. I suspect the travel companies levy unrefundable deposits to cushion and accrue for any regulatory agency payouts that may occur under European travel regulations. If I ran a business, I know I'd need to accrue to cover the costs of government imposed regulation from somewhere, and that has to come from my income stream, and guess what - that's us the consumer. And guess what, maybe the cruise lines decided to impose higher rates, penalties etc. on europeans for this reason."

 

Once again you mention "European travel regulations" and once again I state that the only regulations that exist come from inside the cruise company or airline themselves. Your total ignorance of travel matters is highlighted in the sentence - I suspect the travel companies levy unrefundable deposits to cushion and accrue for any regulatory agency payouts that may occur under European travel regulations. Regarding If I ran a business, I know I'd need to accrue to cover the costs of government imposed regulation from somewhere, and that has to come from my income stream, and guess what - that's us the consumer. And guess what, maybe the cruise lines decided to impose higher rates, penalties etc. on europeans for this reason. Yes it certainly is a good thing that you do not run a business of your own as such comments as these would drive decent customers away.

 

"Supply and demand keeps the playing field level. Rates go up and down. People make decisions, then second guess themselves, then want to change their mind. I figure a contract (agreement) was made, an agreement reached, stop whining after the fact. Accept a decision and its consequences and move on."

 

Why are you getting so personal? We in the UK do not as a whole use such bully-boy terminology and here at last you have shown your true colours - red I think?

 

I am not going to waste any more time replying to you and hopefully others take my side on this, whatever they think about my original point of view. Yes, that's all it is mate - My Point of View, not an all out war - life is way too short.

 

Goodbye.

[peterhof]

A similar question was posted on the Azamara board and their CBO Bill Leiber posted a response which explains the Azamara's policy/limitations dealing with the global market. As Azamara is in the same "family" as Celebrity and RCI, it may have some bearing on this thread.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1830180

 

Some good points answered by the Azamara boss - shame the question about deposits was not raised! Perhaps the Brits asking the questions have never had to cancel a cruise.

[Christine Frances]

Some good points answered by the Azamara boss - shame the question about deposits was not raised! Perhaps the Brits asking the questions have never had to cancel a cruise.

 

I may be wrong but I thought UK bookings could be transferred to another sailing without loss of deposit.

[lindsaystevenson]

Hi,

Unlike Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines, including P&O, who offer a price drop guarantee, Celebrity continue to aggravate early bookers by suddenly dropping prices and/or giving massive perks to those that have not already booked, without passing them on to those, like us, who always book at least a year or so in advance. Up to this year, the UK head offices of all the American cruise lines gave large discounts to English & European travel agents who would mostly pass the discounts on to clients. This was always quoted as the reason that European passengers were unable to claim back paid monies at any time, even before the final payment date. Now that discounts are mainly a thing of the past (I was always given at least 12 percent from my TA) we in the UK should be treated the same as those in the USA.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that some manage to get free shore excursions, free drinks packages, onboard credit and upgrades etc. however, Celebrity should be aware that passengers do chat to one another and like to brag about the freebies they have got. To those that have not got them, because they either booked in the UK/mainland Europe or booked early, thus helping the cruise line in the process - it's like a slap in the face sometimes.

 

If nobody booked early and left it to a few months before cruise day, there would be a blood bath - with many cruise lines going out of business. The early deposits, especially those from European passengers that cannot cancel and regain their money, help the cruise lines to balance their books and plan their budgets. A few years ago it was unheard of to be able to book a cruise 2 to 3-years in advance - but that's the way the industry is going.

 

In the UK this week RCI are selling cruises on the new Sunshine Class ships Quantum of the Seas and Anthem of the Seas - the former comes in service late 2014 and the latter early summer 2015! It's those early bookings that are guaranteeing that RCI will be able to pay the bills. So Celebrity, rather than penalising early bookers you should be awarding those passengers that did so and stayed the distance with some goodies of their own

 

I didn't get any money back but in the last week (having booked my may 2013 cruise in August 2012) celebrity upgraded my outside cabin to a sunset verandah and my in laws from an outside to a 2C. I think they are aware that sometimes early bookers pay more and can lose out if cruise doesn't sell out. It means we are happy and feel we've been treated fairly in line with the last minute deals. Our TA said that they notice it depends on who they speak to at Celebrity so think its more of a consistency issue rather than just US v UK. I am UK btw.

[jpthomas27]

While I certainly empathize with you, why does everyone expect the cruise industry to be any different that other industries?

 

I have plane tickets booked for a trip to visit family this summer. Airlines change thier prices almost daily and do not compensate customers that have already purchased tickets.

 

Hotels change thier prices almost daily as well. They generally do not compensate customers if the price drops either.

 

Rental car agencies... Same thing! You pay what you agreed to pay.

 

So, as much as I love the fact that some cruise lines, in some situations will adjust your price if they lower rates, people need to understand that this is an exception to the normal practice of the travel industry...or any industry for that matter.

 

We should all be thankfull for the exceptions that are being made rather than demanding that the exceptions become the norm...becasue that just isn't going to happen! In fact, if the complaints continue, the exceptions will become more and more rare until they no longer exist.