Passenger Vessel Services Act

[land lover]

The article says $200/pp. I seem to remember that it's $300/pp. The cruise line will not knowingly allow you to violate the PVSA. What happens is that the ship is fined and they pass the fee along to the passenger so they avoid this by not allowing the passenger to board. So saying, I'll just pay the fine won't work. :) Plus, you may not be allowed to fly to the next port to meet the ship without a passport.

 

 

It was $300. A few years ago my traveling companion paid it. It was a short 4 day cruise on RCI...LA-San Diego-CAT-Ensenada ...she became very sea sick the first evening, even had a shot on the ship but decided to get off in SD...the ship's staff really made it difficult for her to disembarked, I handled all the details....interesting to say the least.

Edited December 27, 2013 by land lover

[chengkp75]

CBP, on their website, has a clear statement that they fine the cruise line, not the passenger, and that any "contractual agreement" between the passenger and cruise line as to who is responsible for payment is not a concern to CBP. They will collect from the line.

[Hlitner]

Somebody asked if the PVSA applies to airlines, and I believe (not 100% positive) that it does NOT. Airlines are governed by many different rules including individual treaties (and agreements) between nations, laws in certain countries, the ability to use gates at specific airports (many gates are actually owned or leased by individual airlines), etc. There are also agreements governed by the IATA and even some UN agreements. It is really complex...and there are also complications involving "overfly" treaties (such as the ability of US Airlines to overfly Cuba). Aviation is a fascinating subject, but totally different then the cruise industry. There has been so much civil aviation deregulation in recent years that it is hard to keep track. One good example is the:

Multilateral Agreement on the Liberalization of International Air Transportation, which was an important agreement adopted in 2000.

 

But the point of my post is that folks should not confuse the PVSA requirements with aviation requirements.

 

Hank

[Loonbeam]

Correct, the PVSA does not generally apply to airlines and air travel.

 

It's been around since 1886, long before common air travel and was never updated to deal with it.

 

Somebody asked if the PVSA applies to airlines, and I believe (not 100% positive) that it does NOT. Airlines are governed by many different rules including individual treaties (and agreements) between nations, laws in certain countries, the ability to use gates at specific airports (many gates are actually owned or leased by individual airlines), etc. There are also agreements governed by the IATA and even some UN agreements. It is really complex...and there are also complications involving "overfly" treaties (such as the ability of US Airlines to overfly Cuba). Aviation is a fascinating subject, but totally different then the cruise industry. There has been so much civil aviation deregulation in recent years that it is hard to keep track. One good example is the:

Multilateral Agreement on the Liberalization of International Air Transportation, which was an important agreement adopted in 2000.

 

But the point of my post is that folks should not confuse the PVSA requirements with aviation requirements.

 

Hank

[Pam in CA]

It was $300. A few years ago my traveling companion paid it. It was a short 4 day cruise on RCI...LA-San Diego-CAT-Ensenada ...she became very sea sick the first evening, even had a shot on the ship but decided to get off in SD...the ship's staff really made it difficult for her to disembarked, I handled all the details....interesting to say the least.

Since it wasn't a medical emergency, the ship couldn't request a waiver. And, since the ship is fined, not the passenger, they try to avoid it. Plus, they have to make arrangements with Customs and Immigration for the person to disembark. It's not as simple as deciding to get off the highway at a different exit. There are a lot of things to coordinate and because the reason was someone changing their mind about the cruise, they're a bit reluctant to go to all that trouble. After all, they could change their mind back.

[Cruisin' Chick]

CBP, on their website, has a clear statement that they fine the cruise line, not the passenger, and that any "contractual agreement" between the passenger and cruise line as to who is responsible for payment is not a concern to CBP. They will collect from the line.

 

Yes, but the cruise line will usually pass on the fine to the passenger(s) who are responsible for the fine in the first place. And why not. Aside from medical or true (verifiable) family emergencies, why should the cruise line shoulder the cost?

 

I remember a few cruises ago, someone at a meet and greet told me that his son was going to leave the cruise at the last Hawaiian port because he was told by his boss he would need to be back at work the next day or so, or else lose his job. He claimed they got a letter from the captain. I mentioned the PVSA (even though whoever wrote the Patters for our upcoming ports wrongly said that any passenger missing getting back on board in any of the Hawaiian ports will be fined due to the Jones Act).

 

Never heard what happened to his son's job as we had to miss Kona, our last Hawaiian port) due to high winds. The earliest he would have been able to leave our cruise would have been January 5, our Ensenada port day.

 

My understanding is if you leave a cruise early by deliberately not getting back on the ship and by doing so, violate the PVSA, a cruise line can ban you for life.

[Loonbeam]

A line can ban you for any reason they want that is not discriminatory.. That said, it wouldn't be likely.

 

The cruise contract allows the line to pass on any costs you accor including but not limited to fines, citations and charges. So typically they will pass on the $300 and a small admin fee.

 

Do note that if they need to arrange customs facilities at ports that do not normally have them, the port can charge the ship as well, often a substantial fee because technically they have to set up a secure customs zone. This happened in Juneau a few years ago where someone had to get off for a non-emergency reason. The port charged several hundred dollars to set up a 'customs clearance zone'. Its a wierd legal technicality, but if someone is disembarking (without an emergency waiver) they are required to pass through a customs area with no opportunity of egress. Then again, Customs can clear the passenger on the ship if they are so inclined.

 

I always have wondered how they would handle an emergency evac of an immigration area since technically they have to evac to another secured perimeter.

 

 

 

Yes' date=' but the cruise line will usually pass on the fine to the passenger(s) who are responsible for the fine in the first place. And why not. Aside from medical or true (verifiable) family emergencies, why should the cruise line shoulder the cost?

 

I remember a few cruises ago, someone at a meet and greet told me that his son was going to leave the cruise at the last Hawaiian port because he was told by his boss he would need to be back at work the next day or so, or else lose his job. He claimed they got a letter from the captain. I mentioned the PVSA (even though whoever wrote the Patters for our upcoming ports wrongly said that any passenger missing getting back on board in any of the Hawaiian ports will be fined due to the Jones Act).

 

Never heard what happened to his son's job as we had to miss Kona, our last Hawaiian port) due to high winds. The earliest he would have been able to leave our cruise would have been January 5, our Ensenada port day.

 

My understanding is if you leave a cruise early by deliberately not getting back on the ship and by doing so, violate the PVSA, a cruise line can ban you for life.[/quote']

[hmg1215]

So I am reading this thread and my anxiety level is through the roof.

My hubby and I booked Princess cruise to Panama Canal. To make long story short, we are flying in the same day and arriving to FLL about 1.5 hours before sailing. We arranged trip through Princess EZAir and have also transfer to ship with Princess. But the timing sucks.

If our flight is delayed, then we would miss sailing. The next stop would be in Aruba. We both have valid passports, so this is not an issue.

But may we be prevented from joining the ship in Aruba????

[beg3yrs]

So I am reading this thread and my anxiety level is through the roof.

My hubby and I booked Princess cruise to Panama Canal. To make long story short, we are flying in the same day and arriving to FLL about 1.5 hours before sailing. We arranged trip through Princess EZAir and have also transfer to ship with Princess. But the timing sucks.

If our flight is delayed, then we would miss sailing. The next stop would be in Aruba. We both have valid passports, so this is not an issue.

But may we be prevented from joining the ship in Aruba????

 

Nope. Getting on a foreign flagged ship in a foreign port will be no problem WRT the PVSA.

[Pam in CA]

But may we be prevented from joining the ship in Aruba????

No problem. You'd be embarking in Aruba, not in the US, so the PVSA wouldn't apply.

[Pam in CA]

I always have wondered how they would handle an emergency evac of an immigration area since technically they have to evac to another secured perimeter.

If it's an emergency evacuation, the passenger's passport and ID are sent electronically to be cleared. It's coordinated by the Medical Center and PSD. Luggage is disembarked and cleared with the travel companion as usual. When my BIL was so sick, he was pre-cleared and evacuated as soon as the lines were tied. My sister packed the bags and both of us were told to leave our luggage in our cabins. We were instructed to go to the Medical Center by 9am, long after my BIL had gone and disembarkation begun. While we were there, our luggage was collected and brought to the Medical Center. We were then led off the ship (with our luggage still on a cart with a porter) by the Princess Care Team and through Immigration and Customs. By then, there were few people disembarking. I'm guessing that it would be similar at a non-disembarkation port.

[Loonbeam]

I was thinking larger scale. Like for example the customs and immigration area at Ft Lauderdale. 1000 people in line, they need to evac. Where do they go?? They can't just let people through... Or at an airport...

 

 

If it's an emergency evacuation, the passenger's passport and ID are sent electronically to be cleared. It's coordinated by the Medical Center and PSD. Luggage is disembarked and cleared with the travel companion as usual. When my BIL was so sick, he was pre-cleared and evacuated as soon as the lines were tied. My sister packed the bags and both of us were told to leave our luggage in our cabins. We were instructed to go to the Medical Center by 9am, long after my BIL had gone and disembarkation begun. While we were there, our luggage was collected and brought to the Medical Center. We were then led off the ship (with our luggage still on a cart with a porter) by the Princess Care Team and through Immigration and Customs. By then, there were few people disembarking. I'm guessing that it would be similar at a non-disembarkation port.

[don'tleavewithoutme]

Someone reading this likely has more information than I do, but I have been told that at least one of Princess' sister cruise lines will not allow you to just change ships while in port in Vancouver. They require an overnight stay or jump to a different cruise line. Any truth to this?

 

I, too, have changed ships on the same day in Vancouver with no problem on Princess. Another time I unwittingly tried to book a non-PVSA-compliant trip and Princess' computers disallowed it.

[Pam in CA]

I was thinking larger scale. Like for example the customs and immigration area at Ft Lauderdale. 1000 people in line, they need to evac. Where do they go?? They can't just let people through... Or at an airport...

I would guess that someone who cruises Carnival would have experience with that. :)

 

Someone reading this likely has more information than I do' date=' but I have been told that at least one of Princess' sister cruise lines will not allow you to just change ships while in port in Vancouver. They require an overnight stay or jump to a different cruise line. Any truth to this?[/quote']I doubt it because the PVSA applies to initial embarkation and final disembarkation on a ship. It doesn't say "same cruise line." When you disembark a ship and leave with your luggage, you've disembarked. That satisfies the PVSA requirement. It's possible that some lines might be sticklers and require beyond what the PVSA does.

[Av8tor]

Since it wasn't a medical emergency, the ship couldn't request a waiver. And, since the ship is fined, not the passenger, they try to avoid it. Plus, they have to make arrangements with Customs and Immigration for the person to disembark. It's not as simple as deciding to get off the highway at a different exit. There are a lot of things to coordinate and because the reason was someone changing their mind about the cruise, they're a bit reluctant to go to all that trouble. After all, they could change their mind back.

 

In the case the OP quoted, no customs or immigrations would be required since the passenger had only sailed from LA to SD - no foreign travel was involved. But yes, it did violate the PVSA, hence the fine.

[MandD]

It wasn't so much that Sen. Inouye's wife was a ship's godmother, it was the fact that he had been the driving force behind getting funding for the loan guarantees for Hawaiian Amercian's original ship (which became NCL's POA), and the Patriot, which was an older HAL ship reflagged to US to operate in Hawaii, and the bill that allowed NCL to complete the POA overseas, and flag in the other two ships.

 

As anyone who looks at cruise prices can see, the NCL POA cruise price for a 7 day cruise is similar to the price the other lines charge for a 14 day cruise from the West Coast.

 

Clarification please, by POA do you refer to Pride of Aloha or Pride of America?

[Loonbeam]

Or RCCL - Even Disney, there had to be a total of 300-400 people in line or more when we got off the Dream.

 

I would guess that someone who cruises Carnival would have experience with that. :)

 

[BillB48]

Clarification please, by POA do you refer to Pride of Aloha or Pride of America?

 

 

I'm fairly certain the reference is to the Pride of America as it was the first of the U.S. flagged ships which was started in the U.S. completed in Germany and now the only U.S. flagged passenger ship. On the other hand the Pride of Aloha, the second of the three ships started out as the Norwegian Sky (Bahamas), then later re-flagged U.S. (Aloha) and left the Hawaiian market in 2008 taking her original name and flag back.

[brentlym]

I know that a different ship makes all the difference, but what about same ship…i.e. Embarking Golden in Vancouver and cruise to LA, then continuing on Golden to Ensenada, then back to LA? These are sold as separate cruises. I'm thinking it's not possible, but the law is so confusing. :confused:

[NavyVeteran]

I know that a different ship makes all the difference, but what about same ship…i.e. Embarking Golden in Vancouver and cruise to LA, then continuing on Golden to Ensenada, then back to LA? These are sold as separate cruises. I'm thinking it's not possible, but the law is so confusing. :confused:

 

It does not matter how it is sold - as one cruise or as multiple cruises. The only thing that matters is your origin, destination, and intermediate ports for your specific itinerary. If you get off the ship and change to another ship, it is a different cruise. If you stay on the same ship, it is the same cruise.

 

The itinerary from Vancouver to LA to LA is completely legal - since you start your cruise in a foreign port.

 

On the other hand, a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver to LA is not legal, since it is between two different US ports without a stop at a DISTANT foreign port. This is the reason for the one-night repositioning cruises from Seattle to Vancouver - it's the only way they can get the ship from Seattle to LA.

 

The law is actually not that confusing:

• If you start or end at any foreign port, it is legal.
  
• If you start and end at the same US port, then you must stop in a foreign port (any foreign port will do, such as Victoria or Ensenada).
  
• If you start at one US port and end at a different US port, then you must stop at a DISTANT foreign port (and no ports in Canada or Mexico are DISTANT). This is why a Panama Canal cruise from LA to Fort Lauderdale is legal - it stops at a DISTANT Central American port.
  

[RickEk]

It does not matter how it is sold - as one cruise or as multiple cruises. The only thing that matters is your origin, destination, and intermediate ports for your specific itinerary. If you get off the ship and change to another ship, it is a different cruise. If you stay on the same ship, it is the same cruise.

 

The itinerary from Vancouver to LA to LA is completely legal - since you start your cruise in a foreign port.

 

On the other hand, a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver to LA is not legal, since it is between two different US ports without a stop at a DISTANT foreign port. This is the reason for the one-night repositioning cruises from Seattle to Vancouver - it's the only way they can get the ship from Seattle to LA.

 

The law is actually not that confusing:

• If you start or end at any foreign port, it is legal.
  
• If you start and end at the same US port, then you must stop in a foreign port (any foreign port will do, such as Victoria or Ensenada).
  
• If you start at one US port and end at a different US port, then you must stop at a DISTANT foreign port (and no ports in Canada or Mexico are DISTANT). This is why a Panama Canal cruise from LA to Fort Lauderdale is legal - it stops at a DISTANT Central American port.
  

 

Technically, the Aruba or Cartagena stops are the distant foreign port on those itineraries...

[brentlym]

It does not matter how it is sold - as one cruise or as multiple cruises. The only thing that matters is your origin, destination, and intermediate ports for your specific itinerary. If you get off the ship and change to another ship, it is a different cruise. If you stay on the same ship, it is the same cruise.

 

The itinerary from Vancouver to LA to LA is completely legal - since you start your cruise in a foreign port.

 

On the other hand, a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver to LA is not legal, since it is between two different US ports without a stop at a DISTANT foreign port. This is the reason for the one-night repositioning cruises from Seattle to Vancouver - it's the only way they can get the ship from Seattle to LA.

 

The law is actually not that confusing:

• If you start or end at any foreign port, it is legal.
  
• If you start and end at the same US port, then you must stop in a foreign port (any foreign port will do, such as Victoria or Ensenada).
  
• If you start at one US port and end at a different US port, then you must stop at a DISTANT foreign port (and no ports in Canada or Mexico are DISTANT). This is why a Panama Canal cruise from LA to Fort Lauderdale is legal - it stops at a DISTANT Central American port.
  

 

Thanks NavyVeteran! You're explanation is the easiest one to understand that I've ever seen, and agree…it's not that confusing in those terms. Appreciate the response.

[deminggraham]

This law seems pretty stupid and unnessary. Does anyone know why it still exists? Have there been efforts to repeal it and what has happened to those efforts?

[thinfool]

This law seems pretty stupid and unnessary. Does anyone know why it still exists? Have there been efforts to repeal it and what has happened to those efforts?

 

Talk to mr Google before you call it names. He will illuminate the issues.

[Hlitner]

Talk to mr Google before you call it names. He will illuminate the issues.

And those "issues" are stupid and unnecessary :).

 

Hank