No smoking on balconys?

[jstraw20]

Just so everyone is clear on this: PM2.5 refers to "fine particulate matter" and is NOT some sort of evil compound specific to e-cigs.

 

Feel free to Google it if you doubt me.

[leisuretraveler223]

I am a non-smoker who is allergic to cigarette smoke. When exposed to smoke I start coughing and find it difficult to breath IMMEDIATELY!

 

Clarification. You have a high sensitivity to cigarette smoke as it causes irritation and bronchospasm. This is a very good reason to avoid cigarette smoke at all costs. However, it is NOT an allergy. Allergies are immune-mediated responses. What you describe is a severe sensitivity to an irritant.

[goodycruising]

They planted security outside their doors and then what. Did they handcuff them to the radiator and then throw them over board? :rolleyes:

 

They waited while they packed and then they were escorted off. They were kicked off the ship. Didn't think they were handcuffed, just not allowed out of the cabin. I don't think they threw them overboard. They were several cabins up from us and the room attendants and the Diamond concierge confirmed what had occurred. Pretty simple and not sure what the roll eyes is about.

[Thoie]

Actually the particulate pollution involved with diesel engines is PM10, while there are health effects associated with PM10, they are not as severe as PM2.5.

 

PM2.5 are smaller particles and penetrate deeper into the lung. A major problem with e-cigs (which I assume you were referring to with the comment about water vapor) is PM2.5. EPA levels for PM2.5 is 15ug/m3. In a recent study in a fully ventilated room and 9 users of e-cigs the PM2.5 level reached 197ug/m3 (13 times the EPA level)

 

As far as the health impact of PM2.5 this comes out of a recent study

 

Of the dozens of epidemiological studies on PM2.5 published since EPA’s NAAQS rulemaking in

1997, one of the most important is a recent article extending the analysis of the American Cancer Society

cohort of approximately 1.2 million adults with an additional eight years of follow-up.48 The article concludes

that long-term exposure to combustion-related PM2.5 air pollution is an important environmental risk factor

for cardiopulmonary mortality and lung cancer. Using statistical techniques that seek to adjust for age,

gender, race, smoking, education, martial status, body weight, alcohol consumption, occupational dust

exposure and diet, the study concludes that a 10 µg/m3 increase in long-term average ambient PM2.5

concentrations results in a 9% increase in the cardiopulmonary mortality rate and a 14% increase in the lung

cancer mortality rate.

 

Diesel exhaust has two parts - the "soot" (PM10) and the "gas" (PM2.5).

 

From https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/dpm_size.php :

 

Nearly all diesel particulates have sizes of significantly less than 1 µm. As such, they represent a mixture of fine, ultrafine, and nanoparticles.

 

The biggest sources of PM2.5 at sea are the diesel exhaust fumes, and sea spray. Perfume, hairspray and spray deodorant are also sources of PM2.5.

[medic123]

I hope they do change the policy on e-cigs. I having been quit smoking and using an e-cig for 4 years. I know I am a lot healthier because of it. I have postponed booking my next cruise waiting on Royal to "review" the e-cig policy. If it is not changed I guess I will be doing my future cruising with Princess and their "adult" policy on e-cigs.

[Folk Singer]

don't smoke or don't cruise! I am so glad they have finally done this I hate going out my balcony and smelling the stink or have ashes fall all over my balcony from above. My dad smoked my whole life I have always hated the smell Do people not know how bad they stink?

 

 

agree

[leisuretraveler223]

One of the logistical problems with e-cigs is they generate confusion. This is why a lot of bars and restaurants around me have forbidden them. Someone sees another person "smoking" and they assume it's okay and light up. Conversely, someone sees someone "smoking" and gets all worked up and starts complaining.

 

Just not worth the hassle.

[poncho1973]

Clarification. You have a high sensitivity to cigarette smoke as it causes irritation and bronchospasm. This is a very good reason to avoid cigarette smoke at all costs. However, it is NOT an allergy. Allergies are immune-mediated responses. What you describe is a severe sensitivity to an irritant.

 

Excellent post. It's similiar to people using venomous and poisonous interchangeably.

 

Allergic and sensitive are close, but very different as you aptly pointed out. People say "oh I'm allergic to that" but mean they are sensitive and have an irritant reaction.

 

Some people say "that is a poisonous spider" and they actually mean venomous. Poisons are ingested... a poisonous spider would be one that you ate, rubbed (or maybe just licked for some weird reason) and got sick and/or died. Venoms are injected. The spider bites you and injects venom into you and you get sick and/or die.

 

It's nice to be informed, so you can use words properly.

[tserface]

One of the logistical problems with e-cigs is they generate confusion. This is why a lot of bars and restaurants around me have forbidden them. Someone sees another person "smoking" and they assume it's okay and light up. Conversely, someone sees someone "smoking" and gets all worked up and starts complaining.

 

 

 

Just not worth the hassle.

 

 

It's worth the hassle if you're a person trying to quit smoking. I bet it would be possible to have signs that say something like "No cigarette, pipe, or cigar smoking allowed... Electronic cigarettes are allowed." Like I said, if more people allowed this it may encourage people to cut down on smoking in preference to E-cigs being more widely accepted. It could be a win win.

 

I'm not a smoker and really hate the smell. I'd happily live with e-cigs if it helped people kick or lessen the habit.

 

Tom

[DrD]

I hope they do change the policy on e-cigs. I having been quit smoking and using an e-cig for 4 years. I know I am a lot healthier because of it. I have postponed booking my next cruise waiting on Royal to "review" the e-cig policy. If it is not changed I guess I will be doing my future cruising with Princess and their "adult" policy on e-cigs.

 

But as you know, realistically, you can vape in your cabin or even on your balcony all you want, and no one will know. I have a very sensitive nose and when a patient of mine demoed his "device" I smelled nothing, zero, zilch. There was no residual odor either. And the vapor dissipated very rapidly, it didn't float near the ceiling like real smoke.

 

True you won't be able to use it out in public.

[poncho1973]

One of the logistical problems with e-cigs is they generate confusion.

 

I find it odd that so many of the devices look like cigs.

 

I've seen a few of the ones that kinda look like hookah pieces and those don't look like cigs at all. A guy that used to work for me had a silver one with a blue LED tip that was the same size as a cig, but blatantly not one.

 

Those I understand. You can see from 50 feet that they aren't cigs.

 

I don't understand the white ones with the tan bands that have red/orange LED tips. Those are just asking for confusion. Do you need to try and fool smokers into thinking you're still one of them?

 

 

 

ETA: I've said this many times. I'm VERY anti-smoking because smoke doesn't respect my personal space, even if the smoker does. I don't want to smoke with you. I don't think others should have to share in your choice. I feel really strongly that way about myself, my family, and children. If adults choose to stand in secondhand smoke... no problem. They choose to. It just kills me to see kids forced to breathe in their parent's smoke.

 

That said, unless they find out that vaping is harmful (not like has been kinda/sorta/vaguely alleged in this thread) to secondhand folks, I'm for it. I wish just wish they'd cut out the fake smoke altogether. It seems childish to NEED to see some cloud appear before you. Just huff on your little nicotine machine and let that be the end of it. We don't need vapor proof of your doing so. You are an adult and choose to e-cig? Cool.

Edited January 30, 2014 by poncho1973

[RDC1]

Diesel exhaust has two parts - the "soot" (PM10) and the "gas" (PM2.5).

 

From https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/dpm_size.php :

 

 

 

The biggest sources of PM2.5 at sea are the diesel exhaust fumes, and sea spray. Perfume, hairspray and spray deodorant are also sources of PM2.5.

 

The gas is not PM2.5. As someone mentioned PM are particulates they will be carried in the gas flow, but by definition they are solids, not gas. 2.5 is the size of the particles. While diesel exhaust contains PM2.5 the stack pushes them up and away from the ship. PM10 is more likely to fall, but even with PM10 the particle size is small enough that it will get carried away. The soot you see if far far more coarse then PM10 usually.

 

Note as I indicated earlier the problem with PM2.5 from e-cigs is inside space, even fully ventilated. The good thing is that they do not run diesel exhaust through the inside spaces. I would not want to be around someone in common space sitting there spraying hairspray, applying deodorant or spritzing themselves with perfume for long periods of time. The good news for those products is that they are applied for short periods, usually in the privacy of ones cabin. If you stood there and sprayed deodorant in the air for 5-10 minutes in a room you would probably get PM2.5 values similar or higher than the study indicates for e-cigs. Would not want to be in that room either.

Edited January 30, 2014 by RDC1

[RDC1]

I hope they do change the policy on e-cigs. I having been quit smoking and using an e-cig for 4 years. I know I am a lot healthier because of it. I have postponed booking my next cruise waiting on Royal to "review" the e-cig policy. If it is not changed I guess I will be doing my future cruising with Princess and their "adult" policy on e-cigs.

 

Note that the Princess policy says that you can use them in non-smoking areas UNLESS another guest complains. At which point you would have to stop.

 

I consider the Princess policy to not be very good because it creates uncertainty and creates very large potential for conflict.

 

A better policy, that would be good based up facts, would be to allow e-cigs in all out door spaces, including balconies, in inside smoking areas, and inside staterooms, but not in other inside common areas.

 

That would remove the issue of impact on air quality in inside space except for the persons own cabin. Since e-cigs do not carry the problem of odor residue in cabins (the biggiest problem with allowing smoking in staterooms) the only person affected air quality there is the user and other members of their party.

There is still some potential of nicotine on the surfaces impacting later guests, but the health impact is probably minimal.

[babyher]

Good point. I just had a guy in house for 37 days due to hyponatremia (water intoxication.)

 

He's still not quite right mentally but should be ok.

 

 

 

 

I rememeber quite a few years ago some morning radio show had a contest. The contestants had to drink some insane amount of water, and the last one to have to go to the bathroom won the new video game system that was all the rage that year .

 

I can still remember the contest was called "Don't go wee wee , and win a Wii" I swear to God I am not kidding.

 

I forget how much water this woman actually drank all in one sitting. but she did collapse and die.

 

A nurse who was listening to the show actually called in to say how dangerous this was and the Djs just laughed and her and said "Its just water"

 

i forget if charges were pressed against the station or the DJs or what the outcome was

[yogimax]

Haven't we gotten quite a bit off topic???

[medic123]

But as you know, realistically, you can vape in your cabin or even on your balcony all you want, and no one will know. I have a very sensitive nose and when a patient of mine demoed his "device" I smelled nothing, zero, zilch. There was no residual odor either. And the vapor dissipated very rapidly, it didn't float near the ceiling like real smoke.

 

True you won't be able to use it out in public.

 

I know that I can. The problem is I won't. I am a rule follower, even when I think the rule is without merit. I think putting the explanation of vape vs smoke on the vapor is well worth the ability to use my e-cig, and I can probability explain it better than a crew member.

[medic123]

Note that the Princess policy says that you can use them in non-smoking areas UNLESS another guest complains. At which point you would have to stop.

 

I consider the Princess policy to not be very good because it creates uncertainty and creates very large potential for conflict.

 

A better policy, that would be good based up facts, would be to allow e-cigs in all out door spaces, including balconies, in inside smoking areas, and inside staterooms, but not in other inside common areas.

 

That would remove the issue of impact on air quality in inside space except for the persons own cabin. Since e-cigs do not carry the problem of odor residue in cabins (the biggiest problem with allowing smoking in staterooms) the only person affected air quality there is the user and other members of their party.

There is still some potential of nicotine on the surfaces impacting later guests, but the health impact is probably minimal.

 

Your post has merit, but at least Princess is trying to accommodate vapors. No one is going to confuse my mod for a cigarette, cigar, or pipe.

Edited January 30, 2014 by medic123

[LetsGetWet!]

But as you know, realistically, you can vape in your cabin or even on your balcony all you want, and no one will know. I have a very sensitive nose and when a patient of mine demoed his "device" I smelled nothing, zero, zilch. There was no residual odor either. And the vapor dissipated very rapidly, it didn't float near the ceiling like real smoke.

 

True you won't be able to use it out in public.

 

Thanks for your voice of reason in the thread. I have to ask though, how you can smell "nothing, zero, zilch" when most all of the e-cig liquids specifically have fragrances added? I'll grant you there's no "smoke smell" at all, but the ones I've been around have quite distinct, although widely varying fragrances.

 

(Again, I doubt it would bother me at all if someone on a neighboring balcony was "vaping" so if e-cigs were specifically exempted from the "no smoking on balconies" ban, I'd be fine with that.)

[babyher]

Thanks for your voice of reason in the thread. I have to ask though, how you can smell "nothing, zero, zilch" when most all of the e-cig liquids specifically have fragrances added? I'll grant you there's no "smoke smell" at all, but the ones I've been around have quite distinct, although widely varying fragrances.

 

(Again, I doubt it would bother me at all if someone on a neighboring balcony was "vaping" so if e-cigs were specifically exempted from the "no smoking on balconies" ban, I'd be fine with that.)

 

 

 

 

 

Not all of these E cigs have a scent or a flavor , The one I have tried just emits a very light vapor. And it just has the taste of a regular cigarette .

[Sherlock43031]

Thanks for your voice of reason in the thread. I have to ask though, how you can smell "nothing, zero, zilch" when most all of the e-cig liquids specifically have fragrances added? I'll grant you there's no "smoke smell" at all, but the ones I've been around have quite distinct, although widely varying fragrances.

 

(Again, I doubt it would bother me at all if someone on a neighboring balcony was "vaping" so if e-cigs were specifically exempted from the "no smoking on balconies" ban, I'd be fine with that.)

 

you could stand next to one of those nasty women who think more is better when it comes to cheap perfume.

[babyher]

you could stand next to one of those nasty women who think more is better when it comes to cheap perfume.

 

 

 

 

Nasty women I could be around all day. Its cheap perfume that turns me off :)

[DrD]

I rememeber quite a few years ago some morning radio show had a contest. The contestants had to drink some insane amount of water, and the last one to have to go to the bathroom won the new video game system that was all the rage that year .

 

I can still remember the contest was called "Don't go wee wee , and win a Wii" I swear to God I am not kidding.

 

I forget how much water this woman actually drank all in one sitting. but she did collapse and die.

 

A nurse who was listening to the show actually called in to say how dangerous this was and the Djs just laughed and her and said "Its just water"

 

i forget if charges were pressed against the station or the DJs or what the outcome was

 

Yep, hold your wee for a wii. They were both (DJs) prosecuted and plead out, I don't recall if they got jail time but I think not. Also can happen to runners who drink too much in a long race.

[DrD]

Thanks for your voice of reason in the thread. I have to ask though, how you can smell "nothing, zero, zilch" when most all of the e-cig liquids specifically have fragrances added? I'll grant you there's no "smoke smell" at all, but the ones I've been around have quite distinct, although widely varying fragrances.

 

(Again, I doubt it would bother me at all if someone on a neighboring balcony was "vaping" so if e-cigs were specifically exempted from the "no smoking on balconies" ban, I'd be fine with that.)

 

Well I'm not sure, I've only seen the one, and it didn't have an odor. I'll have to ask the guy but I assume there are non-scented varieties.

Edited January 30, 2014 by DrD

[LetsGetWet!]

Not all of these E cigs have a scent or a flavor , The one I have tried just emits a very light vapor. And it just has the taste of a regular cigarette .

 

Okay, guess I haven't run across those, although my experience is certainly limited since I'm not a user myself.

[DrD]

I know that I can. The problem is I won't. I am a rule follower, even when I think the rule is without merit. I think putting the explanation of vape vs smoke on the vapor is well worth the ability to use my e-cig, and I can probability explain it better than a crew member.

 

That is awesome and I respect that tremendously.