Child Drowns on Norwegian Cruise Ship, Second Child Airlifted to Hospital

[NLH Arizona]

Hoping you are correct and the guardian just froze. I'm trying really hard to not blame whoever was in charge of the children..... It's just a senseless loss and so sad.

 

You are correct, it was preventable. Whoever is to blame will have to live with it the rest of their life.

[Karysa]

Wow...I can understand being depressed and thinking about this tragedy, but IMHO there is such a thing as being too sensitive

 

once I was held up in traffic on 95 on my merrry way to the Port of Miami - a huge and very fatal wreck - body bags , rescue vehicles leaving with body bags and no siren - not needed...

 

I still went on the cruise,

 

Every time I leave my complex I see the spot where a neighbor was killed in a car accident - sad but I still drive and drive by it.

 

I am sure you pass by hospitals - children die in hospitals...I am sure you pass by those sad roadside "crosses" don't you?? Does that bother you??

 

Life goes on - of course not the same if you actually knew them, and unthinkable for the poor family - but for the rest of us?

I do feel especially bad for the good Samaritans who tried CPR...hopefully they can console themselves with knowing that one boy was apparently saved by their heroic efforts

 

My babies were in the NICU. Babies died there not infrequently during their long stay. Of course I kept going back. Visiting my babies and having the time of my life are very different to me. I am not judging others, I know that nothing would change the situation if I stayed and the sensible part of me would say, stay. I just do not think that I could have stayed and carried on my vacation there.

 

Yes I agree with you that there were heros on that ship that day.

[BeagleOne]

Fact: They haven't released if these babies were even related.

 

It's been known from soon after the tragedy that the boys were brothers.

[XCaliGurl]

It's been known from soon after the tragedy that the boys were brothers.

 

The latest report I heard this morning was that the families wish to remain nameless at this time and that it hadn't been confirmed any relation.

 

But this goes back to none of us know the actual facts. There is always 2 sides to every story and truth is somewhere in the middle.

[garycarla]

You are correct, it was preventable. Whoever is to blame will have to live with it the rest of their life.

 

One more poster than appears to have the facts and seems to KNOW it was preventable.

 

Will somebody that apparently has the facts share them?

 

Why do people make statements like this without KNOWING the facts?

[Raindrops27]

Here is another person that knows all the facts. They apparently know exactly what happen enough to consider a lawsuit. Since you have so many facts, can you please share with the rest of us exactly what happened.

 

And how these events place blame on specific persons?

 

We would all like to know.

 

Gary, I've watched your snarky remarks about this. The fact of the matter is this although this is a devastating tragedy. Whoever was the guardian of these children are to blame..I've been on several cruises and always see unsupervised children whilst the parents/guardians are off in their own worlds. Bottom line, parents/guardians should be supervising their children. Especially, children these ages in a pool without a parent/ guardian right next to holding them...Unbelievable...

[don't-use-real-name]

The guilt lies with everyone !

 

There is a security sign outside the MSP airport

 

" IF YOU SEE SOMETHING - SAY SOMETHING " !

 

Anyone who was there could have done something - made an issue of the

event - alerted the ships crew - but everyone was too complacent to note

the possibility of the danger. Oh why bother it just kids; Oh I have to order

another drink; What are you doing for dinner; Better apply some sun screen;

Look there go the newly weds; After I finish another chapter in the novel

think I will head down to the casino; What was that shore excursion that was

not available; It is getting a bit windy think I will find some quiet place;

 

Well note all this and - - - - - - - - - -

 

"BULL CRAP" - THE ROPE NETTING WAS OVER THE POOL FOR A REASON !

Why were the kids in the pool ?

 

" IF YOU SEE SOMETHING - SAY SOMETHING " !

 

Egad what is the matter with people ?

 

Very sickening that a life was lost because someone did not say something !

And if they did Why were they ignored ?

 

Reading of these things takes me back to the starting of this post - - -

 

"The guilt lies with everyone" !

 

If this post is a bit strong on reading take note - - -

 

" IF YOU SEE SOMETHING - SAY SOMETHING " !

 

Condolences and Sympathies aside this did not have to happen - It just tears

my heart out to read of things !

 

"God Bless" !

[Cruising4]

Ok, Gary, I acknowledge we don't have all the facts.

 

Nevertheless, when was the last time you heard of a child drowning while under vigilant supervision. Eyes on the kid and an arms length away?

[garycarla]

Gary, I've watched your snarky remarks about this. The fact of the matter is this although this is a devastating tragedy. Whoever was the guardian of these children are to blame..I've been on several cruises and always see unsupervised children whilst the parents/guardians are off in their own worlds. Bottom line, parents/guardians should be supervising their children. Especially, children these ages in a pool without a parent/ guardian right next to holding them...Unbelievable...

 

I am sorry that you feel the comments are "snarky". I too have seen many parents not supervising their children. The number of uncalled for, irresponsible parents is appalling.

 

But, until someone shares the facts, we do not KNOW what happened here. It is just as irresponsible to make assumptions that this was a result of supervision deficiency. Nor will I assume the parents or guardian were doing the right thing.

 

It may be the issue. And, it may not. Terrible things do happen, even in the best of times.

 

It is beyond me how people can place blame without knowing what happened.

[ksimpso3]

I am sorry that you feel the comments are "snarky". I too have seen many parents not supervising their children. The number of uncalled for, irresponsible parents is appalling.

 

But, until someone shares the facts, we do not KNOW what happened here. It is just as irresponsible to make assumptions that this was a result of supervision deficiency. Nor will I assume the parents or guardian were doing the right thing.

 

It may be the issue. And, it may not. Terrible things do happen, even in the best of times.

 

It is beyond me how people can place blame without knowing what happened.

 

I think some people (myself included) are just going on the limited info received here from some people that were on the ship and the boys own sister on facebook. The "facts" if we are to believe the sister and other passengers are that the boys were with the grandmother. So, I conclude grandma is responsible for them. I have read a couple times that the "rumor" (and whether it is true or not is yet to be seen, but I hope for grandma's sake it is not) is that grandma was having a cigarette away from the pool. If that is the case, I believe grandma is 100% to blame for this!! Harsh as it is...but those are my feelings right or wrong. This is a forum to discuss thoughts, feelings, etc. (I think some people may be persecuting based on what they have read on here.) I hope the "rumors" are not true , but if they are, it reinforces the need for responsible guardianship. I tend to believe the "rumors" as it has been posted several times that no guardian was nearby when the boys were pulled from the pool (as stated by several onboard witnesses.) This is what is infuriating many people, including me!! As I said, I hope these "rumors" are wrong!!

Edited February 8, 2014 by ksimpso3

[iwannacruznow]

 

"BULL CRAP" - THE ROPE NETTING WAS OVER THE POOL FOR A REASON !

Why were the kids in the pool ?

 

!

I didn't see that. Did I miss something.

[ksimpso3]

Ok, Gary, I acknowledge we don't have all the facts.

 

Nevertheless, when was the last time you heard of a child drowning while under vigilant supervision. Eyes on the kid and an arms length away?

 

Agreed!! The guardian was clearly not within arms length as reported by fellow passengers who witnessed the rescue attempts. It is very hard for some people to realize bad things happen that were preventable, and it is easier to post statements about "what drowning looks like", "maybe the grandmother froze", etc. No one was watching these boys by the sound of it. I am not saying a child can't drown with an adult right next to them, but it certainly doesn't sound like that was the case here. We will probably never know what really happened. It is extremely sad!!

[NLH Arizona]

One more poster than appears to have the facts and seems to KNOW it was preventable.

 

Will somebody that apparently has the facts share them?

 

Why do people make statements like this without KNOWING the facts?

I don't know the facts of this case, I was making a general statement about children drowning. What I do know is that a child drowning is preventable by caregivers watching children in a pool or limiting access to a child to the pool when there is not adequate supervision or giving a child swiming lessons at an early age or always being in the pool with a child under a certain age or not letting a child into a crowded pool where they can get hurt or by making sure a child can not get into a pool without anyone knowing. Do diligence can prevent a child from drowning. Living here in Arizona, we hear all to often about children drowing in family pools and it is usually that they got into the pool without the parent knowing through a doggie door or an unlocked fence or the parent/caregiver looked away for a few minutes, etc. and they all could have been prevented.

 

The fact I did post is that the person responsible will live with this the rest of their life.

Edited February 8, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[karoo]

I don't know the facts of this case, I was making a general statement about children drowning. What I do know is that a child drowning is preventable by caregivers watching children in a pool or limiting access to a child to the pool when there is not adequate supervision or giving a child swiming lessons at an early age or always being in the pool with a child under a certain age or not letting a child into a crowded pool where they can get hurt or by making sure a child can not get into a pool without anyone knowing. Do diligence can prevent a child from drowning. Living here in Arizona, we hear all to often about children drowing in family pools and it is usually that they got into the pool without the parent knowing through a doggie door or an unlocked fence or the parent/caregiver looked away for a few minutes, etc. and they all could have been prevented.

 

The fact I did post is that the person responsible will live with this the rest of their life.

 

This is just so true! When will parents learn that to keep their children safe they must be vigilant when they are in or near water? Yes the parents will probably always live with this - a very hard way to learn a lesson!

[Crusin6]

I didn't see that. Did I miss something.

 

This is the first I am hearing about this as well.

 

Can someone confirm this or is this just another case of cc posters lack of comprehension?

[Karysa]

Agreed!! The guardian was clearly not within arms length as reported by fellow passengers who witnessed the rescue attempts. It is very hard for some people to realize bad things happen that were preventable, and it is easier to post statements about "what drowning looks like", "maybe the grandmother froze", etc. No one was watching these boys by the sound of it. I am not saying a child can't drown with an adult right next to them, but it certainly doesn't sound like that was the case here. We will probably never know what really happened. It is extremely sad!!

 

Lifeguards notice when kids are in trouble and they are trained to react. Lifeguards also are there to reinforce rules which include no children under (12?) in the pool unsupervised.

 

A lifeguard for the watching and a big bouncer looking security guard doing the " I am sorry mam/sir but the rules clearly state that all children under the age of (?) must be accompanied in the water by an adult, would you like me to have the head of our hotel department contact you for further discussion on the matter?"

[sharecruises]

Wow...some here are bending the facts - no evidence that the "netting was over the pool"...the boys did not sneak in, others were in the pool....this was not a kid's club activity from all we have heard...they were in the pool at ages 4 and 6....

someone was their guardian...the only one we have heard about is the grandmother (went with the 6 year old to hospital on helicopter)

 

IF....and I say IF..she did go away from pool for a cigarette...yeah she should be charged. Just as parents here who forget their kids in a car and kid dies of heatstroke are sometimes charged (and IMHO should always be charged).

 

I too live in Florida and yes drowning is the number one cause of death for young children here despite laws, public service announcements

 

Karysa - maybe you wish to spend more on cruises and have the pool/spa hours cut and the deck cleared for lifeguards but most of us do not...we are a sue happy country and this would be lawsuits waiting to happen. It could even endanger kids whose parents use it as babysitter

the logical answer is to increase the security (I have already suggested a special kids security team....just one at each pool and some roaming the ship at night on lookout for kids acting up).....

this would not increase ship fares or liability .. your endless lifeguard lament is going to mean more parents will use them as the babysitter...plus with pools on NCL and Carnival etc they won't even be able to see who is where , so crowded =unless they clear the whole deck for them

 

Bottom line is that the parents/guardians are responsible for these kids and somehow these 2 were let down

 

there is no way that NCL is responsible if someone thinks that a 4 and 6 year old should be in a pool with depth up to 6 feet on their own

 

If the same guardians gave the kids hydrochloric acid to play with or a loaded gun or a bag of drugs to play with they would be liable.

 

I really don't care what Disney does or doesn't do - I would not want to spend that money to be on a kid themed ship , no thanks. For those who want lifeguards - Disney is an option

 

Statistically with the amount of people cruising, these tragedies are a very small number - not acceptable - but in the other cases it really came down to bad judgement - the boy on Disney "lost" from family, the 6 year old on Carnival in the pool being "watched" by his 10 year old brother! Honestly the NCL tragedy also seems to have the same bad judgement.

 

I think the best thing is to have NON tippped . salaried employees who are there to oversee kids /pool rules.....clear rules given to each parent/guardian along with the kids wristband....haul them out of the hot tubs if adult only.....make sure every kid is really with an adult at the pools...first time a warning - 2nd time family banned from pool for rest of cruise, if they go back in put them off the boat

 

Once people see they mean business they might think twice before letting little kids in pool on their own

[DrNora]

Unless it can be proven by the FBI investigation that a physical/mechanical problem or engineering flaw exists in the pool in which theses boys were playing exists, or that there is a public safety issue that could have been prevented by altering the design of the pool - well, then I do not think that the details of this tragedy are anybody's business at all.

 

We have been crusies where people died of heart attacks. I never thought to question the lifestyle and habits of the deceased, nor did I come on the boards and question whether or not the spouse of the victim did all that they could do save the victim."where was the wife when he was lighting that cigarette...where were his kids when he failed to take his prescribed meds..i heard that he ate fried foods against his doctor's orders".....

 

This is 'exciting" because it involves children. But it is not any of our business unless we and our kids are also in danger.

 

Our power has been out for days, I come back to CC and still the blame game, name -calling is going on in THREE SEPARATE THREADS!!

 

There is nothing NOTHING as horrid as losing a child. I speak from experience , as a 12 year veteran of that exclusive and sad club. Please drop the conjecture and innuendo. Even if the guardians of these children were on a different deck and had given the boys benadryl before they swam...IT DOES NOT CONCERN ANY OF US!!! If there was negligence the authorities will take care of it.

 

None of these CC rantings will ever help heal the broken hearts of the family or assuage any guilt they have- WHETHER MISPLACED OR NOT!!

 

 

I shall put the soap box away.

 

and many thanks to Garycarla.

 

 

NORA

Edited February 8, 2014 by DrNora

[NLH Arizona]

The guilt lies with everyone !

 

Have to totally disagree. The guilt doesn't lie with everyone. If there are 2,000 or 4,000 passengers on a ship, it is not their responsibility to watch someone's child when they are on vacation. It is the responsibility of the the parents and/or caregiver to watch them, not to put the in a situation that will harm them and to keep them safe.

 

It is a human responsibilty, which I hope everyone would do, to intervene and help if they see a problem, just as the gentlman did who pulled the child out of the pool and did CPR on him.

 

To say that the guilt lies with everyone is very disingenuous.

[NLH Arizona]

We have been crusies where people died of heart attacks. I never thought to question the lifestyle and habits of the deceased, nor did I come on the boards and question whether or not the spouse of the victim did all that they could do save the victim."where was the wife when he was lighting that cigarette...where were his kids when he failed to take his prescribed meds..i heard that he ate fried foods against his doctor's orders".....

 

This is 'exciting" because it involves children. But it is not any of our business unless we and our kids are also in danger.

 

First there is nothing "exciting" about one child dying and another in the hospital fighting for his life. It was a tragedy that could have been prevented.

 

Secondly, an adult who dies on a ship, is an adult and is responsible for their own health, safety, etc. We are talking about a child who is not responsible for themselves, that is why they are not allowed to cruise without a parent or guardian and that parent or guardian is responsible for their safety.

 

I think if the child had died from and illness or a non-preventable accident, I think you would see that everyone's posts would have taken a different direction.

Edited February 8, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[katyjeka]

I've cruised with our kids for years and have got a lot of valuable info. from the boards. At this point I'm used to attacks from parents who feel ships are just big playgrounds for their kids. In one sentence they insist children's safety is everyone's job, the next there telling us not to blame the innocent parent/guardian. When my dh and I cruise it is OUR responsibility to watch and keep our kids safe. NOONE else's! If we don't want to do this, we cruise alone or don't go. Two little boys do not drown if they are being watched correctly. I'm not cold hearted but tired of parents who have no respect for other cruisers and just assume fellow cruisers will happily watch their kids. Its time adults are held accountable for their actions, especially when innocent children are at risk. I'm praying for a full recovery for the little one, and applaud everyone involved in saving his life. They are true heroes.

[luddite]

I've cruised with our kids for years and have got a lot of valuable info. from the boards. At this point I'm used to attacks from parents who feel ships are just big playgrounds for their kids. In one sentence they insist children's safety is everyone's job, the next there telling us not to blame the innocent parent/guardian. When my dh and I cruise it is OUR responsibility to watch and keep our kids safe. NOONE else's! If we don't want to do this, we cruise alone or don't go. Two little boys do not drown if they are being watched correctly. I'm not cold hearted but tired of parents who have no respect for other cruisers and just assume fellow cruisers will happily watch their kids. Its time adults are held accountable for their actions, especially when innocent children are at risk. I'm praying for a full recovery for the little one, and applaud everyone involved in saving his life. They are true heroes.

 

Oh now. There will be none of this on CC......

Common sense. Resposibility. Accountability.....

Nope. There is no place for that around here.

[cod]

We should stop with this 'until we know all the facts' nonsense. THE FACT is that the adult(s) cruising with these kids, whose responsibility it was TO WATCH them, DID NOT!!!

 

Does this mean that the family does not have everyones sympathy and prayers?...of course not. But the blame certainly doesn't lie with NCL or other passengers.

 

JMHO and my last word on this tragic, sad subject.

[Aquahound]

Two little boys do not drown if they are being watched correctly.

 

Watched correctly? What does that mean? I hate to add real world experience to this whole blame game.....but I was a lifeguard in college, spent a combined 20 years in the USCG and served on my local marine unit with the Sheriffs Office. On top of all that, I live right on the water, go boating almost every weekend, and have my Captains license. I'm not bragging....what I'm saying is, I have seen people go under right before my eyes, we had them out in seconds, and they still did not survive.

 

My point is, you people really need to stop with this blame crap. Unless you were there, you saw everything that happened, and you know first hand what the parents were up to, you do not have enough to say they are at fault. There isn't even enough info available for an opinion. Period.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Aquahound

[garycarla]

Watched correctly? What does that mean? I hate to add real world experience to this whole blame game.....but I was a lifeguard in college, spent a combined 20 years in the USCG and served on my local marine unit with the Sheriffs Office. On top of all that, I live right on the water, go boating almost every weekend, and have my Captains license. I'm not bragging....what I'm saying is, I have seen people go under right before my eyes, we had them out in seconds, and they still did not survive.

 

My point is, you people really need to stop with this blame crap. Unless you were there, you saw everything that happened, and you know first hand what the patents were up to, you do not have enough to say they are at fault. There isn't even enough info available for an opinion. Period.

 

Thank for you adding some basic logic here. I wish others understand things are not always as they seem.