Child Drowns on Norwegian Cruise Ship, Second Child Airlifted to Hospital

[GailnBrad]

I disagree...we must blame and start assigning accountability...or things like this will continue to happen....

[ksimpso3]

Watched correctly? What does that mean? I hate to add real world experience to this whole blame game.....but I was a lifeguard in college, spent a combined 20 years in the USCG and served on my local marine unit with the Sheriffs Office. On top of all that, I live right on the water, go boating almost every weekend, and have my Captains license. I'm not bragging....what I'm saying is, I have seen people go under right before my eyes, we had them out in seconds, and they still did not survive.

 

My point is, you people really need to stop with this blame crap. Unless you were there, you saw everything that happened, and you know first hand what the parents were up to, you do not have enough to say they are at fault. There isn't even enough info available for an opinion. Period.

 

You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, but just because you say "there isn't even enough info available for an opinion. Period." does not make it so! You do not have the final say. Period. You are entitled to say that with all your years of training that it is possible for someone to drown right in front of someone else. I do believe that. However, I do not believe that these boys' guardian was "right in front of them" when they drowned based on what I have read so far, so therefore, I do believe there is fault to be had...sad as it is for people to hear! I feel horrible that this happened, and even feel sorry for the grandmother as she will have to live with this for the rest of her life, but if she was negligent in her responsibility to care for these boys leading to the death of one, she should be held accountable.

[mjkacmom]

I disagree...we must blame and start assigning accountability...or things like this will continue to happen....

 

But how often does this happen? It's extremely rare - it's not like it's a new epidemic. Here in NJ, many more people drown in a single summer at the beach than all of the cruise ship drownings. It's a very rare accident. Maybe it's because it so rarely happens that some parents are too relaxed around the pools.

 

For those of you condeming this family, please make sure your kids get swimming lessons - lots of them. Because you won't always be there next to them.

[katyjeka]

So, we are to believe the two boys went under as the guardian stood in the water watching. That would make sense I guess, since it was a crew member who spotted them, as stated in the news, and had the heroic, but sad job of removing them. I'm also to believe the responsible guardian,while in the water continued to stand and watch as both boys lay at the bottom of the pool. I guess I'll follow my gut, and say, its another case of little, innocent children left alone in a very unsafe place. I'm calling it as I see it, and will not coddle irresponsible adults.

[DrNora]

I disagree...we must blame and start assigning accountability...or things like this will continue to happen....

 

???????

 

'We' blame "______. How does this prevent anything?

 

We require_________to be accountable.

Doesn't help after the fact.

[DrNora]

First there is nothing "exciting" about one child dying and another in the hospital fighting for his life. It was a tragedy that could have been prevented.

 

Secondly, an adult who dies on a ship, is an adult and is responsible for their own health, safety, etc. We are talking about a child who is not responsible for themselves, that is why they are not allowed to cruise without a parent or guardian and that parent or guardian is responsible for their safety.

 

I think if the child had died from and illness or a non-preventable accident, I think you would see that everyone's posts would have taken a different direction.

 

I meant EXCITED as in 'emotionally stirring" And all this reading FB posts and interpreting things and statements such as ' they seem like a nice family'..it all seems a bit too voyeuristic to me. And you missed the point- blame game, stalking the family on the internet, comment after comment without having been involved.. the poor baby is gone. Three threads because it is so emotional. I simply do not think that the demand so many are making for ALL THE DETAILS is anyone's affair. Except, of course, the family.

IF there were a general safety issue- like the child got his hair stuck in a mal-functioning filter ( as was conjectured early on) then it would be a different story. For all anyone knows the grandma was in the pool with them and had a TIA- ALL THE GUESSING does nothing. Posts about pool safety, how to recognize drowning, the need for people to know CPR and AED usage...thee I understand.

[drarill]

I don't know the facts of this case, I was making a general statement about children drowning. What I do know is that a child drowning is preventable by caregivers watching children in a pool or limiting access to a child to the pool when there is not adequate supervision or giving a child swiming lessons at an early age or always being in the pool with a child under a certain age or not letting a child into a crowded pool where they can get hurt or by making sure a child can not get into a pool without anyone knowing. Do diligence can prevent a child from drowning. Living here in Arizona, we hear all to often about children drowing in family pools and it is usually that they got into the pool without the parent knowing through a doggie door or an unlocked fence or the parent/caregiver looked away for a few minutes, etc. and they all could have been prevented.

 

The fact I did post is that the person responsible will live with this the rest of their life.

As always, an excellent post… my children took swimming lessons at an early age, we had a fence around our pool even though they knew how to swim, and when cruising, they were never allowed to go by themselves to the pool until recently. Really hope the story about the grandmother stepping out of the pool for a smoke is not true. Even though I belong to the anti-smoking brigade, I really hope we can't blame this death on smoking.

I keep coming back to this board to see if there is new information about the injured child. My thoughts and prayers are with the family, passengers and crew members.

[stormynow]

The reports from people on the ship state the grandmother left the children at the pool to go have a cigarette. This is child negect pure and simple period. Child negect is against the law.

[mamaofami]

I'm not familiar with NCL's smoking policy. If the grandmother did leave to have a smoke, where would she have gone? How far away ? Yes, I know any place away from the pool wouldn't be a good thing, but I wonder where she would have had to go.

 

I'm a grandmother, and while I don't smoke, I frequently have to go to the bathroom. I would never leave my young children alone in the pool while I went. I can't imagine what she was thinking.

[biker@sea]

I'm not familiar with NCL's smoking policy. If the grandmother did leave to have a smoke, where would she have gone? How far away ? Yes, I know any place away from the pool wouldn't be a good thing, but I wonder where she would have had to go.

 

I'm a grandmother, and while I don't smoke, I frequently have to go to the bathroom. I would never leave my young children alone in the pool while I went. I can't imagine what she was thinking.

 

Smoking is allowed in the pool area on the port side .

[Aquahound]

For those of you condeming this family, please make sure your kids get swimming lessons - lots of them. Because you won't always be there next to them.

 

And for goodness sake, do not ever leave them alone with the grandparents. Otherwise, anything that happens will be YOUR fault. :rolleyes:

[Donray]

You do not KNOW if this was avoidable. And you should not presume so.

 

 

This is one of the most ignorant statements I have read. Of course every drowning is avoidable. Don't let kids near a pool.

[Budget Queen]

Smoking is allowed in the pool area on the port side .

 

I did not see any smoking by the pool. The Breakaway, actually has an enclosed separate smoking area on the deck with the buffet and kids pool. Not within sight of the pool area.

[biker@sea]

I did not see any smoking by the pool. The Breakaway, actually has an enclosed separate smoking area on the deck with the buffet and kids pool. Not within sight of the pool area.

 

MY bad .:eek:

 

I have not had the pleasure of sailing BA.

 

The NCL ships I have been on allow smoking on outside decks on the port side .

[mamaofami]

And for goodness sake, do not ever leave them alone with the grandparents. Otherwise, anything that happens will be YOUR fault. :rolleyes:

 

Most grandparents view taking care of their grandchildren as an awesome responsibility; more so than when they took care of their own kids. We don't ever want anything to happen on our watch because then we would have to live with that guilt forever.

[garycarla]

This is one of the most ignorant statements I have read. Of course every drowning is avoidable. Don't let kids near a pool.

 

On average, 10 people in America die every day from non boating drowning. Two of those are young children.

 

I am not sure those involved would agree every one of those was avoidable.

 

Sad. Very sad.

[brigittetom]

The reports from people on the ship state the grandmother left the children at the pool to go have a cigarette. This is child negect pure and simple period. Child negect is against the law.

 

What is the difference if she left to have a cigarette or to get milk and cookies. The end result is the same.

[cruiseapril]

It seems that, after the fact, we as cruisers should concentrate on helping to ensure the safety of all children on cruise ships. We need to be pro-active about pool safety and all other aspects of safety of a ship.

 

Certainly, the cruise lines warn their passengers about all kinds of hazards- such as wearing improper shoes on deck, or being on deck when there are high seas and we are asked to stay in our cabins or to stay inside until the waves calm. Some people just don't obey the rules and that is a hazard to all passengers and crew.

 

As far as ship's pools are concerned, there need to be identifiable security people in the pool area who passengers can speak with if they see dangerous or problematic situations. Yes, all children need supervision 24/7, but passengers also need strong paths of communication to report problems in any area of a ship.

[KateQ22003]

Let me tell you a little story. Last fall on the Dawn we saw a mother with a roughly 8 month old baby dunking said child up and down like a teabag in the main pool. I said something to one of the wait staff to please report this; nothing was done. The next day, same mother, same teabag routine. I happened to see a ship's officer at the bar (The F&B director), so I went up to him and told him there was a diapered baby in the pool. He looked shocked, like he had never heard of such a thing. A full 20 minutes later he went up to the mother and spoke to her and she took the child out. It was not 5 minutes later that the officer left the pool area, and the mom proceeded to go back to dunking her child as if nothing had happened. This happened every day of the cruise that I was poolside (which was every day); I reported it every day. Nothing was done.

 

Moral of the story? Reporting any infractions to the ship's crew is going to get you nowhere. They are so afraid of pissing a paying customer off that they look the other way at diapers, cannonballing kids leaping on others, or toddlers in the adult hot tubs. They don't want to deal with it, and they won't. Until the cruise lines enforce the rules for the safety and comfort of ALL passengers, nothing is going to change.

[H&J]

KateQ22003

Cool Cruiser

 

Let me tell you a little story. Last fall on the Dawn we saw a mother with a roughly 8 month old baby dunking said child up and down like a teabag in the main pool. I said something to one of the wait staff to please report this; nothing was done. The next day, same mother, same teabag routine. I happened to see a ship's officer at the bar (The F&B director), so I went up to him and told him there was a diapered baby in the pool. He looked shocked, like he had never heard of such a thing. A full 20 minutes later he went up to the mother and spoke to her and she took the child out. It was not 5 minutes later that the officer left the pool area, and the mom proceeded to go back to dunking her child as if nothing had happened. This happened every day of the cruise that I was poolside (which was every day); I reported it every day. Nothing was done.

 

Moral of the story? Reporting any infractions to the ship's crew is going to get you nowhere. They are so afraid of pissing a paying customer off that they look the other way at diapers, cannonballing kids leaping on others, or toddlers in the adult hot tubs. They don't want to deal with it, and they won't. Until the cruise lines enforce the rules for the safety and comfort of ALL passengers, nothing is going to change.

This is why we NEVER get into the hot tubs or the pool. It's a veritable fecal stew.Why does NCL not enforce the rules? Could it be the rush to get the almightly dollar whatever the costs or consequences? In any event, to quote the late southern humorist, Lewis Grizzard, "Never wash your face with water you sat in."

 

Back to the original tenor of this thread; in my opinion, whoever was supposed to be watching those children is not just negligent, but criminally negligent if they left the area for whatever reason.

[declansdad]

This is one of the most ignorant statements I have read. Of course every drowning is avoidable. Don't let kids near a pool.

 

 

Are you saying kids should never be allowed in a pool?

[ksimpso3]

"Back to the original tenor of this thread; in my opinion, whoever was supposed to be watching those children is not just negligent, but criminally negligent if they left the area for whatever reason."

 

 

I agree 100% with you. I am tired of people refusing to place blame where blame is due. This "fluffy" world we are turning into is disgusting!! Everyone is so afraid of offending someone else, that they turn a blind eye or say "I'm sure they didn't mean for something bad to happen". I'm sure this woman probably "didn't want something bad to happen" either, but guess what?? It did!! The worst possible thing happened!! A baby boy died!!! And there does need to be blame placed somewhere! There were no lifeguards on duty, so we can't blame them. There were clearly posted signs that no lifeguards were on duty and to "swim at your own risk". Since a 4 and 6 year old cannot be responsible for themselves, the adult who brought them there was. It is sad and heartbreaking but doesn't sound like this was an "accident" per se. If the guardian was right in the pool with these boys and something happened to them that she couldn't handle... and she screamed for help...and help came...but it was still too late (and that's a lot of ifs), then I might say it was just "an accident". Everything that has been posted so far from actual witnesses leads me to believe that this was not how this went down. I am furious that this happened!!! Everyone reading this story should be saddened and furious too! But don't say "NCL should have had lifeguards"...because they don't!! Everyone stepping foot near that pool was aware of that, so therefore they needed to be responsible for themselves and anyone underage that they brought there with them! I just don't understand why people can't get that!

[Host Star]

ok.. folks,, I think this thread has run its course

 

a very sad situation .. I realize emotions are running high but

 

enough finger pointing.............

 

let's close the thread and let everyone heal and keep the surviving child in our prayers