Cruise Passenger Assaulted on Holland America Cruise Ship

[cruisin'girl]

Of course not. Absent a court hearing or stipulation, we won't know the facts. All we hear is what the press reports, and we all know the fallacies of that source. This thread has been rife with speculation. Interesting though it might be, speculation has a way of turning into "fact" or rumors, and that helps no one.

Not to say I might not have missed something, but the press reports I have read have only been accounts of the HAL and FBI statements, not speculation or rumor.

[magandab]

(snip) And what, exactly, his job title was is irrelevant.

 

.

 

I think, from my reading, that the relevance is only here on this board. His job title is not relevant to the crime; what people are wondering his which jobs give the employee access to a master key to all the cabins. That is, who can enter my cabin at will?

 

Will that knowledge protect us? Maybe or maybe not, but I think knowing who can and cannot (or should be able to or not) enter a cabin without being admitted by the passenger, is a bit more information people want to have.

[Himself]

What happened was horrible. My understanding is the perpetrator is under arrest and is no longer a HAL employee. Hopefully the victim will not be too scarred.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Himself

[sjn911]

I applaud Host Walt at trying to keep each person's thoughts here but culling some that may be just to problematic on many levels..and thank you from moi. It is an issue that just cuts to the bone and hard to be clear about or get the facts about..that's the nature of the crime..and to have it happen in the place we travelers go to get the best out if this life in the safest possible way on a premium line...very difficult. I do have hope that this incident will improve things and the victim hopefully will hold her head high again one day in surviving this..prayers to this woman and her family..prayers for Holland as they work it out...prayers for all of us as we grapple...a lot of good was said and left in this thread in beginning,,very very thoughtfully and lovingly managed...Sarah

Edited February 21, 2014 by sjn911

[TiogaCruiser]

my underline

 

 

That is my interest in his job title.

I want to know if Room Service stewards have pass keys.

 

 

The CC Article, posted by Walt in post 18 (http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5743) called him a Room service attendant. It went on to say he used his company issued master key to let himself in. (So if there is speculation there.....)

 

It will be interesting what the cruiseline industry response will be in the coming weeks with relation to reassuring pax, especially solos, of who has access to cabins.

It seems prudent that cruiselines review policies and procedures and reevaluate who really needs 24/7 access to cabins- both for the prevention of issues and the prevention of accusations.

Edited February 21, 2014 by TiogaCruiser

[Host Walt]

Just so everyone understands, this incident is, fortunately, extremely rare. The only facts that are known by anyone are those reported on by the media, and, sadly, we all know how even with careful source checking, even the media can get the story wrong.

 

Unfortunately the alleged perpetrator had his picture made public And some on this forum recognized him from previous voyages.

 

For that reason posts that are speculating on the circumstances and associated elements of those circumstances are raising legitimate concerns, but unless and until the alleged perpetrator is given his day in court, or actually confesses to his actions, it's totally unfair to him to speculate on what actually did take place.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Host Walt

[sail7seas]

I used to be a property manager...I realize that is not the same thing here, but my educated guess:

 

If the door is a "slider" probably not. If it is a door hung from the side frame, and opens inward/outward, possibly. The reason for this distinction is simple: a slider has an internal lock mechanism that is attached to the straight bar that goes into the other end of the frame when the door is slid shut. Such a lock would be standard, and would be hard to manufacture with different combo tumblers.

 

If it is a "regular" door in the sense that it opens inward toward the room (or outward toward the balcony) this is very possible. In this case, there is no straight bar --- just a regular shaft from the door knob, to the jamb and this could allow for all types of locks to be placed, exchanged, swapped out, etc.

 

I may not be explaining it well, but that is my take on it and would be happy to try and clarify. Hopefully, there's a locksmith passenger on these boards that could help with this question and/or correct me if I am wrong.

 

I have not cruised in a balcony cabin on HAL so I am unfamiliar with how their doors are made/hung.

 

 

The verandah doors on HAL ships open outward toward the railing.

There is a turn lock on every door. One must turn either a key which is left in the lock or turn the lock knob and the door can be locked from the inside.

 

Many is the night we returned from our evening out and about the ship to find our cabin steward, while doing night cabin service, locked the verandah door for us. It is far more often we find it locked than not and we know for sure we did not leave it locked when we went out for the evening.

 

If we are to believe the statements credited to the defendant, having a lock on the verandah door made no difference. He came into the cabin from the hallway entry door.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2014 by sail7seas

[Lauranne]

It's making me feel uncomfortable to know so many people have key access to my cabin. Anyone else feel the same way? We always defend the crew saying they would never do anything to put their job in jeopardy, but here it is and it did happen. Maybe just one unstable man who went way over the edge (no pun intended) but it did and can happen. We all do need to be more vigilant in what we say and how we say it to those people working so hard to serve us.

 

I agree. I stayed solo in a luxury hotel last night. I went out for dinner but made sure that many lights were left on and I certainly locked every lock possible when I returned as well as checked in all the rooms of my one bedroom suite (including behind the shower curtain...Bates hotel :-0) A situation like this really does give one pause. Thankfully I rarely travel alone. This young women has been in my thoughts and I wish her peace.

[JDinWA]

[...]

If we are to believe the statements credited to the defendant, having a lock on the verandah door made no difference. He came into the cabin from the hallway entry door.

 

According to the statements credited to the defendant, he entered the cabin from the hallway and then waited on her balcony (where he fell asleep). The recently rewritten news article on cruisecritic.com (http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5743) still includes that detail.

[cruisin'girl]

The verandah doors on HAL ships open outward toward the railing.

There is a turn lock on every door. One must turn either a key which is left in the lock or turn the lock knob and the door can be locked from the inside.

 

Many is the night we returned from our evening out and about the ship to find our cabin steward, while doing night cabin service, locked the verandah door for us. It is far more often we find it locked than not and we know for sure we did not leave it locked when we went out for the evening.

 

If we are to believe the statements credited to the defendant, having a lock on the verandah door made no difference. He came into the cabin from the hallway entry door.

 

 

 

 

Can a verandah door locked from the inside be opened with a master key from the outside? He was hiding out on the verandah until she went to bed and then reentered the cabin according to the FBI, the Holland America statement, and the Cruise Critic posted report of the incident, so I don't consider saying that speculation. If the door had been locked from the inside could he have opened it with his key from the balcony side?

Edited February 22, 2014 by cruisin'girl

[cbr663]

Can a verandah door locked from the inside be opened with a master key from the outside? He was hiding out on the verandah until she went to bed and then reentered the cabin according to the FBI' date=' the Holland America statement, and the Cruise Critic posted report of the incident, so I don't consider saying that speculation. If the door had been locked from the inside could he have opened it with his key from the balcony side?[/quote']

 

The assailant used his position of trust to access the cabin and to wait for his victim on the balcony. He already had access to the cabin. The key to the balcony door is an actual key, it isn't a swipe card. The balcony key is quite small and it would be relatively easy for any assailant to remove the key and keep it with them to ensure access to the cabin via the balcony. Being a small key, many people would not notice it missing unless they were looking for it.

 

What this incident has highlighted for me is that balconies are security risks on a ship. It is a place that an intruder can hide at night (remember, employees are well aware of night time turn down procedures and the fact that the drapes to the balconies are closed every evening). The balcony is also an ingress area that anyone can use to gain access to your cabin.

 

Always keep your balcony door locked and make sure that you check all areas of your cabin when you return. And remember, if you are going to check for an intruder, make sure that you are prepared should you find an intruder.

[artist47]

The verandah doors on HAL ships open outward toward the railing.

There is a turn lock on every door. One must turn either a key which is left in the lock or turn the lock knob and the door can be locked from the inside.

 

Many is the night we returned from our evening out and about the ship to find our cabin steward, while doing night cabin service, locked the verandah door for us. It is far more often we find it locked than not and we know for sure we did not leave it locked when we went out for the evening.

 

If we are to believe the statements credited to the defendant, having a lock on the verandah door made no difference. He came into the cabin from the hallway entry door.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for helping me to understand this --- I agree that it would not have made a difference, in this case, according to what the defendant has said.

 

The locks/knobs/doors being as you describe, they would be harder to break into the cabin FROM the balcony in my opinion. Someone would be able to jump from balcony to balcony as the defendant did during his escape, according to his own statement. So, if that was the case, then

a) it would not have a made a difference in THIS case since as you say, he entered through the hall door BUT

b) it also means he found an open balcony door through which he escaped. And that means, ladies and gentlemen, please lock your balcony door before leaving your cabin and take the key with you at all times.

 

Thank you again, for your response.

Edited February 22, 2014 by artist47

[sjn911]

Now we just have to sit back from the shock and wait..and be glad that alot has been covered here..it is true innocent until proven guilty is what we have in the US. We chose that as a nation; so we must abide by it...

 

The alleged perpetrator did turn himself into his roomate first..as per article...just considering nature of deep uncontrolled rage and then aftershock..ie when someone goes out of control this evening...as humans we can be more capable of this than we like to think. So many issues that have been discussed can be in play and yet not..we really do not know many things.

Edited February 22, 2014 by sjn911

[WhansaMi]

Now we just have to sit back from the shock and wait..and be glad that alot has been covered here..it is true innocent until proven guilty is what we have in the US. We chose that as a nation; so we must abide by it...

 

The alleged perpetrator did turn himself into his roomate first..as per article...just considering nature of deep uncontrolled rage and then aftershock..ie when someone goes out of control this evening...as humans we can be more capable of this than we like to think. So many issues that have been discussed can be in play and yet not..we really do not know many things.

 

While I'd like to be open to the idea that his turning himself in was a sign of remorse (and I believe that it is kind of you to think so), I don't think that is the case. It is a ship, isolated in the ocean, with a finite number of people aboard, and I suspect that he was the only one impaled by a corkscrew that night.

 

Had he been able to throw her overboard, I doubt that he would have confessed to anyone.

Edited February 22, 2014 by WhansaMi

[runnergirl71]

I agree. I stayed solo in a luxury hotel last night. I went out for dinner but made sure that many lights were left on and I certainly locked every lock possible when I returned as well as checked in all the rooms of my one bedroom suite (including behind the shower curtain...Bates hotel :-0) A situation like this really does give one pause. Thankfully I rarely travel alone. This young women has been in my thoughts and I wish her peace.

 

I do travel solo most of the time and take all the standard precautions (and I live in NYC, so I'm probably extra cautious and more aware of potential dangers) and have never felt unsafe, but honestly this is giving me second thoughts about my Alaska cruise this summer. I'll probably still go as one of my flights is on miles so non-refundable (the flight back) and my couple of nights in Seattle before are non-refundable, but I am extra nervous about it.

[Tampa Girl]

I do travel solo most of the time and take all the standard precautions (and I live in NYC, so I'm probably extra cautious and more aware of potential dangers) and have never felt unsafe, but honestly this is giving me second thoughts about my Alaska cruise this summer. I'll probably still go as one of my flights is on miles so non-refundable (the flight back) and my couple of nights in Seattle before are non-refundable, but I am extra nervous about it.

 

 

Please don't be. This was a very rare occurrence which comes under the heading of "Anything can happen..." But it rarely does. I'm not sure if it every has happened before, but I assume that someone will enlighten us if it has.

[pv girl]

this tragic incident has folks worrying about cruise safety, but I imagine that as a result we will see enhanced measures for onboard security in the near future

 

and folks will be more aware of watching out for themselves when entering cabins, etc. - and maybe using lower voices when asked for cabin numbers at public venues so that others don't overhear - and if a lone male exits elevator with you and goes down same hallway, just go right past your room and back to a public area - lots of little things we can do to help ourselves

 

runnergirl - your cruise is several months away - don't ruin the anticipation and planning by worrying - you have been looking forward to this trip for quite a while - statistics are on your side - you have more chance of trouble in NY than on an Alaskan cruise

 

the Alaskan port cities are very safe and since you are going to be part of a small group, you will have company in numbers while on the ship and in port - and you will be kept too busy to worry!

 

have a wonderful trip!:):):)

[runnergirl71]

this tragic incident has folks worrying about cruise safety, but I imagine that as a result we will see enhanced measures for onboard security in the near future

 

and folks will be more aware of watching out for themselves when entering cabins, etc. - and maybe using lower voices when asked for cabin numbers at public venues so that others don't overhear - and if a lone male exits elevator with you and goes down same hallway, just go right past your room and back to a public area - lots of little things we can do to help ourselves

 

runnergirl - your cruise is several months away - don't ruin the anticipation and planning by worrying - you have been looking forward to this trip for quite a while - statistics are on your side - you have more chance of trouble in NY than on an Alaskan cruise

 

the Alaskan port cities are very safe and since you are going to be part of a small group, you will have company in numbers while on the ship and in port - and you will be kept too busy to worry!

 

have a wonderful trip!:):):)

 

Thanks for the reassurance!! :)

[JDinWA]

I do travel solo most of the time and take all the standard precautions (and I live in NYC, so I'm probably extra cautious and more aware of potential dangers) and have never felt unsafe, but honestly this is giving me second thoughts about my Alaska cruise this summer. I'll probably still go as one of my flights is on miles so non-refundable (the flight back) and my couple of nights in Seattle before are non-refundable, but I am extra nervous about it.

 

What I've been reminding myself is that this same risk has always been there, but now I'll be more aware and cautious. I've never been careful about locking the balcony door at night; now, I will be.

 

If you've never read Gavin de Becker's book, The Gift of Fear, I highly recommend it, especially if you travel alone.

[cbr663]

I do travel solo most of the time and take all the standard precautions (and I live in NYC, so I'm probably extra cautious and more aware of potential dangers) and have never felt unsafe, but honestly this is giving me second thoughts about my Alaska cruise this summer. I'll probably still go as one of my flights is on miles so non-refundable (the flight back) and my couple of nights in Seattle before are non-refundable, but I am extra nervous about it.

 

Instead of worrying, might I suggest that you spend some time educating yourself on what precautions you can take to increase your level of protection while traveling? For instance, there are lots of devices that you can purchase that can prevent a hotel door from being opened. You may wish to look for personal alarms that you can simply use. Another option is to consider bringing an items with you that you can leave out in your cabin that can be used as a weapon.

 

There is little doubt in my mind that the victim in this crime did the right thing by fighting back. Prepare yourself mentally to fight back and prepare yourself for the unlikely event. Here are some tips that we plan on implementing for our Spring Alaska cruise:

 

 

• When we leave our cabin we will make sure that the bathroom door is left opened so we can easily see in there and make sure that no one is in there,
  
• We are going to make sure that our cabin lights are on in the evening so that we never have to enter a dark cabin,
  
• I am going to request that the cabin steward not close our drapes at night,
  
• I always make sure that the balcony door is locked (I do that always now but for a different reason),
  
• I am going to make sure that there is something out and close by in the cabin that could be used as a weapon should the need arise,
  
• Continue to make eye contact with anyone that you meet in the hallways and say hello - it displays confidence and makes others know that you are aware that they are there,
  

I am sure that we will think of lots more.

[COLLEYBERRY]

Reducing vulnerability is for sure our best defence...but to live in fear has you paying a price for something which most probably will never happen.

Fighting back may not always be a women's best choice ( if the criminal is armed)..surviving an attack is the goal ...however that end is achieved was the right choice.

When someone is attempting to throw you overboard it is absolutely the time to make him very sorry he picked you.

[runnergirl71]

Instead of worrying, might I suggest that you spend some time educating yourself on what precautions you can take to increase your level of protection while traveling? For instance, there are lots of devices that you can purchase that can prevent a hotel door from being opened. You may wish to look for personal alarms that you can simply use. Another option is to consider bringing an items with you that you can leave out in your cabin that can be used as a weapon.

 

There is little doubt in my mind that the victim in this crime did the right thing by fighting back. Prepare yourself mentally to fight back and prepare yourself for the unlikely event. Here are some tips that we plan on implementing for our Spring Alaska cruise:

 

 

• When we leave our cabin we will make sure that the bathroom door is left opened so we can easily see in there and make sure that no one is in there,
  
• We are going to make sure that our cabin lights are on in the evening so that we never have to enter a dark cabin,
  
• I am going to request that the cabin steward not close our drapes at night,
  
• I always make sure that the balcony door is locked (I do that always now but for a different reason),
  
• I am going to make sure that there is something out and close by in the cabin that could be used as a weapon should the need arise,
  
• Continue to make eye contact with anyone that you meet in the hallways and say hello - it displays confidence and makes others know that you are aware that they are there,
  

I am sure that we will think of lots more.

 

 

Great tips! Thanks! I would have thought of some of them, but not asking to have the curtain left open. I open them back anyway, but that's a great idea to not have to do it to begin with.

 

Is the door to the balcony such that a chair (I'm assuming there is one in the cabin...) could be wedged under the door handle as an added measure?

 

 

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[sail7seas]

The verandah doors open out so there is no way to wedge a chair against it to keep it from being opened by someone on the verandah.

 

[wander]

What a horrible experience! Lesson for me - a reminder that "things happen" and to take reasonable precautions whether I be on a cruise ship, in a hotel, walking down my hometown street or at home!

 

For those expressing reservations about cruising again - have there never been any cases of muggings, rapes, burglaries, etc, in your neighborhood? Home Town or City? How about car jacking, grabbing folks off the street, etc. Stuff happens almost everywhere, but life goes on. Maybe not for the victims - but for others. Why is a cruise any different. Just think of the odds of such an attack with the 10s of thousands cruising each day. (No that does NOT make it any better for the selected victims, I know.)

 

One advantage on a ship is that the desk can tell what key cards were used to enter each cabin at any time. The same cannot be said for most homes. Now, it still does not help the victim at the time - but crew know that they will be tracked down unless they jump overboard. (Yes, they can "borrow" someone else's card, but that too can probably be resolved fairly easily.)

 

Without minimizing the impact of the trauma to individual victims, we should keep the keep such incidents in perspective for folks in general.

[runnergirl71]

The verandah doors open out so there is no way to wedge a chair against it to keep it from being opened by someone on the verandah.

 

 

 

 

 

Darn. That would have been a good plan - especially since they can apparently be opened by anyone with a key. :/

 

 

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