Smoking policy on Holland

[cbr663]

We have been following this verandah smoking theme on cc for some time now. We do not smoke and are no longer used to being around smokers. We are trying not to be concerned but with comments like this it is hard not to be. We have cabin 8167 on the Nieuw Amsterdam and want to use our balcony on our Mediterranean cruise. How many agree with the previous post?

Thanks.

 

If being able to use your balcony without encountering the smell of cigarette smoke at all is your goal then you have chosen the wrong cruise line. HAL does allow smoking on its balconies. Keep in mind that as more cruise lines like Celebrity restrict its smoking locations, more and more smokers are attracted to cruise lines that are not so restrictive.

 

We have had HAL balconies that were next to smokers and it has never bothered us. Just depends on your own personal preferences.

[Cruising-along]

We have been following this verandah smoking theme on cc for some time now. We do not smoke and are no longer used to being around smokers. We are trying not to be concerned but with comments like this it is hard not to be. We have cabin 8167 on the Nieuw Amsterdam and want to use our balcony on our Mediterranean cruise. How many agree with the previous post?

Thanks.

 

I'm afraid that it's the luck of the draw :( We personally have never had a problem with smokers nearby, but one time my sister and brother-in-law never were able to use their verandah (and we were on the same cruise, just opposite sides of the ship). So you just never know. We cross our fingers every time we book a verandah with HAL.

 

I hope you will have no problems as we haven't. :)

[Hlitner]

We have been following this verandah smoking theme on cc for some time now. We do not smoke and are no longer used to being around smokers. We are trying not to be concerned but with comments like this it is hard not to be. We have cabin 8167 on the Nieuw Amsterdam and want to use our balcony on our Mediterranean cruise. How many agree with the previous post?

Thanks.

 

I will give you a fair and balanced answer from a non-smoking HAL 4 Star Mariner who has booked both verandahs and outside cabins. It is like rolling the dice! We have cruised with verandahs on HAL (most recently for 35 days on the Westerdam) and had no smoke issues. On other cruises we could hardly use our verandah because we were constantly forced to breath smoke rather then clean sea air. And it is just not about your immediate neighbors. If you get a few cigarette or cigar smokers who happen to be upwind from your veranda, these folks can be many cabins distant or even on a different deck and can be quite annoying. This is why most other cruise lines totally banned verandah smoking rather then trying to limit it to parts of the ship

 

So, to quote Dirty Harry (kind of rhymes with Dirty Ashtray) "are you feeling lucky today?"

 

I should add that we play it both ways. On a recent 28 day Veendam cruise we booked an outside (as opposed to verandah) because the combination of the cost differential and smoke risk kept us from a verandah. But on a future Oosterdam 38 day cruise we have booked a verandah and are again "rolling the dice" that we get lucky. However, we have two other lengthy cruises booked this year and they are with Celebrity and Princess. Both would have been HAL cruises except for the smoking issue. When we can find another cruise line that fits our itinerary wants....we book that other line rather then HAL....because of the smoking issue and A/C problems we have encountered on several HAL cruises.

 

Hank

Edited March 2, 2014 by Hlitner

[chrispb]

Most adult smokers today are the hard core who smokers who will not likely ever give up cigarettes.

 

Rather a sweeping statement, don't you think?

[sail7seas]

No, with all respect, I really don't think it is an overstatement.

 

Most people are aware of the huge health risk and only those who really are dedicated, deeply addicted continue to smoke. Most who want to quit for their health and reasons of inconvenience and expense etc have either already done so or are trying.

 

I seriously doubt there are few educated people who really WANT to continue smoking. I think, if honest, most smokers would say they wish they were not smokers.

 

That is what I think.

No one need agree. ;)

 

Edited March 2, 2014 by sail7seas

[HamOp]

No, with all respect, I really don't think it is an overstatement.

 

Most people are aware of the huge health risk and only those who really are dedicated, deeply addicted continue to smoke. Most who want to quit for their health and reasons of inconvenience and expense etc have either already done so or are trying.

 

I seriously doubt there are few educated people who really WANT to continue smoking. I think, if honest, most smokers would say they wish they were not smokers.

 

That is what I think.

No one need agree. ;)

 

 

But if that were true, then no one from this day forward would ever quit.

Some number of people will stop tomorrow and the next day and the next.

 

Many will try and fail every day, but some small percentage of those will win the fight.

 

I do agree that most, but not all, people who smoke would like to quit. I know it's not easy, but from what I read here many of our posters are former smokers.

[whogo]

What does a smoker look like? I'm really curious.:rolleyes:

On average a bit older, wrinklier than other people his age.

[legalslave]

On average a bit older, wrinklier than other people his age.

 

WRONG! I don't look my age and I smoked up until 3 years ago. Many people are shocked when I tell them how old I am. No, I don't look 10 years younger but I do look younger. Of course, I didn't smoke but maybe a half pack a day. I know many people who smoked for years and are my age and quit and don't look older and more wrinkled. I will be 66. I know many people who have never smoked in their life and look at least 5 to 10 years older than they are. Natural wrinkles are often hereditary.

 

Diane

[sail7seas]

But if that were true, then no one from this day forward would ever quit.

Some number of people will stop tomorrow and the next day and the next.

 

Many will try and fail every day, but some small percentage of those will win the fight.

 

I do agree that most, but not all, people who smoke would like to quit. I know it's not easy, but from what I read here many of our posters are former smokers.

 

 

That is my point.....

 

Most adults who want to quit have done so or are now trying. Those who are not at that point now, are at a certain age and have smoked many years, possibly will never try to quit. They are who I refer to as the hard core, die hard smokers.

 

You're right there are many former smokers here. They have already quit.

 

We are all dying each day and at some point all of us, including the smokers, will have passed,,,,,

 

Assuming the kids get the message to not start smoking, by attrition, one day there might/could be no smokers.

 

Edited March 2, 2014 by sail7seas

[QueenGlassHalfFull]

I will give you a fair and balanced answer from a non-smoking HAL 4 Star Mariner who has booked both verandahs and outside cabins. It is like rolling the dice! We have cruised with verandahs on HAL (most recently for 35 days on the Westerdam) and had no smoke issues. On other cruises we could hardly use our verandah because we were constantly forced to breath smoke rather then clean sea air. And it is just not about your immediate neighbors. If you get a few cigarette or cigar smokers who happen to be upwind from your veranda, these folks can be many cabins distant or even on a different deck and can be quite annoying. This is why most other cruise lines totally banned verandah smoking rather then trying to limit it to parts of the ship

 

So, to quote Dirty Harry (kind of rhymes with Dirty Ashtray) "are you feeling lucky today?"

 

I should add that we play it both ways. On a recent 28 day Veendam cruise we booked an outside (as opposed to verandah) because the combination of the cost differential and smoke risk kept us from a verandah. But on a future Oosterdam 38 day cruise we have booked a verandah and are again "rolling the dice" that we get lucky. However, we have two other lengthy cruises booked this year and they are with Celebrity and Princess. Both would have been HAL cruises except for the smoking issue. When we can find another cruise line that fits our itinerary wants....we book that other line rather then HAL....because of the smoking issue and A/C problems we have encountered on several HAL cruises.

 

Hank

 

Well said. We just finished a 21 day cruise with HAL and for the first time in over 5 years, we do not have another HAL cruise booked. Since we now like the longer cruises in a Neptune Suite, and the cost of Neptune Suites are rising faster than other types of HAL cabins, we decided to re-evaluate whether we wanted to continue spending so much money with HAL when we had past cruises where we could not use our verandah due to heavy smokers beside us. We have another cruise booked later this year with RCL and are looking at cruises for next year on Oceana and Celebrity. As 4 star Mariners with HAL, it is very difficult to say good-bye to our "good friend" but common sense tells us that we are no longer getting our money's worth with HAL when we cannot use our verandah on certain cruises. Not being gamblers, we don't want to continue to "roll the dice" with HAL. By the way, I got the same "form response" about smoking from HAL after completing the survey from our most recent cruise. There was no indication that HAL was concerned that a long-time customer was going to try other cruise lines because of the HAL smoking policy.

 

No cruise line is perfect but our health and ability to enjoy our cruise accommodations are very important in our decision on which cruise line to use. I don't think that there are enough cruising smokers to sustain HAL on a long-term basis if indeed the Carnival plan is for HAL to be the "smoking line" in the Corporation. Unfortunately, once you lose a customer, most find another alternative that is just as satisfactory if not better. Getting a customer back is very difficult once the change has been made. We are no longer recommending HAL to those who ask about our cruising experience.

[whogo]

WRONG! I don't look my age and I smoked up until 3 years ago. Many people are shocked when I tell them how old I am. No, I don't look 10 years younger but I do look younger. Of course, I didn't smoke but maybe a half pack a day. I know many people who smoked for years and are my age and quit and don't look older and more wrinkled. I will be 66. I know many people who have never smoked in their life and look at least 5 to 10 years older than they are. Natural wrinkles are often hereditary.

 

Diane

In spite of your anecdotal evidence, I stand by my statement that on average, smokers look older than others their age. Scientists agree:

"Facial Changes Caused by Smoking: A Comparison between Smoking and Nonsmoking Identical Twins" http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Abstract/2013/11000/Facial_Changes_Caused_by_Smoking___A_Comparison.10.aspx

[LindaM]

In spite of your anecdotal evidence, I stand by my statement that on average, smokers look older than others their age. Scientists agree:

"Facial Changes Caused by Smoking: A Comparison between Smoking and Nonsmoking Identical Twins" http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Abstract/2013/11000/Facial_Changes_Caused_by_Smoking___A_Comparison.10.aspx

 

Smokers can't help but have wrinkles at their mouth, due to the drawing in motion. Their skin is also an "off" color. I can always tell a smoker by their deeper, raspier voice, as well. Maybe people who smoke only 10 cigarettes a day might not have as severe an effect. Smokers (particularly women) do look like smokers.

 

I am a former smoker and I do know how hard it is to quit. I will never forget that it took years and years for the desire to go away. I would smoke in my dreams--how weird is that???

[HamOp]

That is my point.....

 

Most adults who want to quit have done so or are now trying. Those who are not at that point now, are at a certain age and have smoked many years, possibly will never try to quit. They are who I refer to as the hard core, die hard smokers.

 

You're right there are many former smokers here. They have already quit.

 

We are all dying each day and at some point all of us, including the smokers, will have passed,,,,,

 

Assuming the kids get the message to not start smoking, by attrition, one day there might/could be no smokers.

 

 

Point well taken. Good post, Sail

[lovesublime]

Smokers can't help but have wrinkles at their mouth, due to the drawing in motion. Their skin is also an "off" color. I can always tell a smoker by their deeper, raspier voice, as well. Maybe people who smoke only 10 cigarettes a day might not have as severe an effect. Smokers (particularly women) do look like smokers.

 

I am a former smoker and I do know how hard it is to quit. I will never forget that it took years and years for the desire to go away. I would smoke in my dreams--how weird is that???

 

 

 

I can spot a smoker a mile away. They have raspy voices. Their skin color is off. Their skin sags more than usual and they definitely have more wrinkles than others their age. Their mouth area is wrinkled and shrunken in. They just have that smoker's look.

[sail7seas]

Point well taken. Good post, Sail

 

 

Thanks, HamOp. :)

[YubaSutter]

I can spot a smoker a mile away. They have raspy voices. Their skin color is off. Their skin sags more than usual and they definitely have more wrinkles than others their age. Their mouth area is wrinkled and shrunken in. They just have that smoker's look.

 

I can also spot a smoker. They usually have a cigarette in their hand.

[chrispb]

No, with all respect, I really don't think it is an overstatement.

 

Most people are aware of the huge health risk and only those who really are dedicated, deeply addicted continue to smoke. Most who want to quit for their health and reasons of inconvenience and expense etc have either already done so or are trying.

 

I seriously doubt there are few educated people who really WANT to continue smoking. I think, if honest, most smokers would say they wish they were not smokers.

 

That is what I think.

No one need agree. ;)

 

 

There are plenty of doctors, lawyers, even ship's Captains' who are smokers (as you should know!). I suppose they're not educated either?

 

As for your other remark, perhaps you need to recall the number of posters on this board who have given up in recent years or even months and I don't think there are many members here who are teenagers;) which means they've given up around middle age or even older.

 

As far as health risks go, there are a number of people here who have medical issues of one kind or another who have never smoked.

 

I haven't got heart problems, nor on meds for high blood pressure, cholesterol or diabetes. Touch wood, I'm doing fine so far. But yes, I am aware of the risks but I believe they are overstated and that smoking gets blamed for almost every ailment or illness.

 

Put simply, I enjoy smoking. The time may come when I don't and then I will stop (no need to give up if that happens).

 

I know that I'll eventually die of something - nobody lives for ever.:cool:

[sail7seas]

There are plenty of doctors, lawyers, even ship's Captains' who are smokers (as you should know!). I suppose they're not educated either?

 

As for your other remark, perhaps you need to recall the number of posters on this board who have given up in recent years or even months and I don't think there are many members here who are teenagers;) which means they've given up around middle age or even older.

 

As far as health risks go, there are a number of people here who have medical issues of one kind or another who have never smoked.

 

I haven't got heart problems, nor on meds for high blood pressure, cholesterol or diabetes. Touch wood, I'm doing fine so far. But yes, I am aware of the risks but I believe they are overstated and that smoking gets blamed for almost every ailment or illness.

 

Put simply, I enjoy smoking. The time may come when I don't and then I will stop (no need to give up if that happens).

 

I know that I'll eventually die of something - nobody lives for ever.:cool:

 

 

Why is it mutually exclusive for a doctor, lawyer or cruise ship Captain to be a smoker? :confused:

 

By comment is most educated people who continue to smoke are in the category I PERSONALLY categorize as hard core smokers. They certainly know all the dangers and risks and if they choose to continue to smoke, it is not out of ignorance of what they are doing. They are making an educated choice to continue a very addictive, dangerous habit. That does not make them any less able a doctor, lawyer or ship's captain. It makes them confirmed, heels dug in smoker IMO

 

[sail7seas]

There are plenty of doctors, lawyers, even ship's Captains' who are smokers (as you should know!). I suppose they're not educated either?

 

As for your other remark, perhaps you need to recall the number of posters on this board who have given up in recent years or even months and I don't think there are many members here who are teenagers;) which means they've given up around middle age or even older.

 

As far as health risks go, there are a number of people here who have medical issues of one kind or another who have never smoked.

 

I haven't got heart problems, nor on meds for high blood pressure, cholesterol or diabetes. Touch wood, I'm doing fine so far. But yes, I am aware of the risks but I believe they are overstated and that smoking gets blamed for almost every ailment or illness.

 

Put simply, I enjoy smoking. The time may come when I don't and then I will stop (no need to give up if that happens).

 

I know that I'll eventually die of something - nobody lives for ever.:cool:

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sail7seas

No, with all respect, I really don't think it is an overstatement.

 

Most people are aware of the huge health risk and only those who really are dedicated, deeply addicted continue to smoke. Most who want to quit for their health and reasons of inconvenience and expense etc have either already done so or are trying.

 

I seriously doubt there are few educated people who really WANT to continue smoking. I think, if honest, most smokers would say they wish they were not smokers.

 

That is what I think.

No one need agree. ;)

 

 

Are you sure you read what I posted?

Where did I say smokers are uneducated?

Where did I say only smokers become ill?

Kindly reread and see what it is I said.

 

Thanks. :)

 

Edited March 3, 2014 by sail7seas

[jimmy2x]

There are plenty of doctors, lawyers, even ship's Captains' who are smokers (as you should know!). I suppose they're not educated either?

 

As for your other remark, perhaps you need to recall the number of posters on this board who have given up in recent years or even months and I don't think there are many members here who are teenagers;) which means they've given up around middle age or even older.

 

As far as health risks go, there are a number of people here who have medical issues of one kind or another who have never smoked.

 

I haven't got heart problems, nor on meds for high blood pressure, cholesterol or diabetes. Touch wood, I'm doing fine so far. But yes, I am aware of the risks but I believe they are overstated and that smoking gets blamed for almost every ailment or illness.

 

Put simply, I enjoy smoking. The time may come when I don't and then I will stop (no need to give up if that happens).

 

I know that I'll eventually die of something - nobody lives for ever.:cool:

 

You need to just ignore these threads. For everyone's pleasure, I'm sure that another one will start in a few weeks.;)

[HamOp]

There are plenty of doctors, lawyers, even ship's Captains' who are smokers (as you should know!). I suppose they're not educated either?

 

As for your other remark, perhaps you need to recall the number of posters on this board who have given up in recent years or even months and I don't think there are many members here who are teenagers;) which means they've given up around middle age or even older.

 

As far as health risks go, there are a number of people here who have medical issues of one kind or another who have never smoked.

 

I haven't got heart problems, nor on meds for high blood pressure, cholesterol or diabetes. Touch wood, I'm doing fine so far. But yes, I am aware of the risks but I believe they are overstated and that smoking gets blamed for almost every ailment or illness.

 

Put simply, I enjoy smoking. The time may come when I don't and then I will stop (no need to give up if that happens).

 

I know that I'll eventually die of something - nobody lives for ever.:cool:

 

@Chrispb

 

First off, know that I am not anti-smoking. I can see myself so clearly in your post. I too loved to smoke, my health is fine and I even have used that line about how we'll all die someday from something.

 

While it may not be a sign of being uneducated, the fact is that the majority of smokers today are of the lower social economic status and that is most likely a result of lower education levels. This is not to say that there are no "smart" or well-to-do smokers; of course there are. Heck, even Johnny Carson smoked and he is what I would consider well to do!

 

When and if your time comes to give it up, it will come from within. No one can bully you, beg you, threaten you or pay you to quit. Warnings on the side of the pack mean nothing to you. And that tax you pay on every pack? How many times did I say I'd quit when it went up another dollar a pack? I've been in your shoes.

 

So enjoy those cigs, and try to be mindful of those who don't smoke.

[kpgibbs]

I have tried to refrain from posting on this topic. But I have now decided to give in.

I am a smoker. I do my very best to be considerate of non smokers. But when a non smoker comes into a smoking section and starts complaining, my consideration goes right out the window. Some non smokers (some right here on this thread) act like they are the only ones who have rights.

I know smoking is bad for me. I don't need a lecture about that. One day I will quit. But not today. I enjoy smoking. And I have a right to smoke where smoking is allowed.

As for the veranda, I can see where maybe your next door neighbor's smoking might bother you. But no way no how will smoke bother you from several doors down or another deck. The only way that might happen is if the ship is docked. And that's pushing it.

All I'm saying is that we have rights too. If my smoking bothers you while I'm in a smoking area, then stay out of that area. I have seen some non smokers that are so over the top about this that it's actually kind of funny.

[cbr663]

@Chrispb

While it may not be a sign of being uneducated, the fact is that the majority of smokers today are of the lower social economic status and that is most likely a result of lower education levels. This is not to say that there are no "smart" or well-to-do smokers; of course there are. Heck, even Johnny Carson smoked and he is what I would consider well to do!

 

I would love to know the source of this fact, as this isn't true in Canada. While in Canada university graduates had half the smoking prevalence of any other educational group, it would be erroneous to conclude from this fact that smoking is a habit of those with lower education levels. In fact, at the population level, more than 700,000 university graduates, more than 1 million people with college graduates smoke and more than 2 million high school graduates smoke. Nearly 1 million with less than a high school education smoke.

 

http://www.tobaccoreport.ca/2013/TobaccoUseinCanada_2013.pdf

[lovesublime]

I have tried to refrain from posting on this topic. But I have now decided to give in.

I am a smoker. I do my very best to be considerate of non smokers. But when a non smoker comes into a smoking section and starts complaining, my consideration goes right out the window. Some non smokers (some right here on this thread) act like they are the only ones who have rights.

I know smoking is bad for me. I don't need a lecture about that. One day I will quit. But not today. I enjoy smoking. And I have a right to smoke where smoking is allowed.

As for the veranda, I can see where maybe your next door neighbor's smoking might bother you. But no way no how will smoke bother you from several doors down or another deck. The only way that might happen is if the ship is docked. And that's pushing it.

All I'm saying is that we have rights too. If my smoking bothers you while I'm in a smoking area, then stay out of that area. I have seen some non smokers that are so over the top about this that it's actually kind of funny.

 

 

 

 

You're living in fantasy land.

[hal lover]

I can spot a smoker a mile away. They have raspy voices. Their skin color is off. Their skin sags more than usual and they definitely have more wrinkles than others their age. Their mouth area is wrinkled and shrunken in. They just have that smoker's look.

 

 

WOW! REALLY?? I smoked for 35 years and quit 10 months ago. No one ever guessed me to be a smoker. They would be surprised when I would excuse myself to have a cigarette. Good genes, I suppose. I do know "the look" that you mention but not all smokers have it.

 

My advice is that smokers, smoke where it is allowed and be courteous. Non smokers, stay away from smoking areas and if you go there remember that you do not have to be there.

 

Excuse me now, I have to go make sure that that "look" has not set in on me yet! TOO FUNNY!:eek: