Breakaway Engine Problem?

[Chesneygirl]

Hopefully the BA is doing okay with it's "issues" and is able to handle the sea conditions that they are currently in. :(

[chengkp75]

I wish NCL would update everyone as to what is going on. I hope it is fixed very soon and no other issues arise.

 

13 more days!

 

Well, from my point of view, it requires more information before saying there is an issue or how long it would take, or whatever. Passengers, and many hotel department crew, consider a "propulsion" problem to be an "engine" problem. The above reported "down one engine" is somewhat misleading to me. Does this mean an azipod is out of service, which could affect ship's speed, or that an engine (diesel generator) is out of service, which could also affect ship's speed, but only if required by the ship's particular itinerary to make top speed. An engine could be repaired underway, a pod repair may require a drydocking or just more time in port with the ship not moving.

[markf]

we were on the cruise that returned yesterday--we heard of no issues , and there appeared to be no issues

[peg013]

Well, from my point of view, it requires more information before saying there is an issue or how long it would take, or whatever. Passengers, and many hotel department crew, consider a "propulsion" problem to be an "engine" problem. The above reported "down one engine" is somewhat misleading to me. Does this mean an azipod is out of service, which could affect ship's speed, or that an engine (diesel generator) is out of service, which could also affect ship's speed, but only if required by the ship's particular itinerary to make top speed. An engine could be repaired underway, a pod repair may require a drydocking or just more time in port with the ship not moving.

 

NCL is calling it a "technical issue with one of the ship's engines".....

 

[KeithJenner]

I wish NCL would update everyone as to what is going on. I hope it is fixed very soon and no other issues arise.

 

13 more days!

 

I'd be very surprised if they updated anyone outside of this cruise, unless the problems aren't fixed.

 

Assuming they fix the problems this week then it won't impact anyone else, so there is no need for notifying anyone.

[meatball_nyc]

She's going through some rough waters this morning I saw on her webcam.

I also saw a pic of snow on one of the balconies.

 

Hope all is well for her and all aboard.

 

It's our turn in 111 days :)

Safe Sailing!

 

 

~Robin

Norwegian Breakaway July 2014

Carnival Miracle 2010

Carnival Legend 2006

[nycmode]

Wow I hope this doesn't affect everyone too much, especially us since we're sailing on Sunday! :D

 

One question - let's say the schedule change affects the excursion timetable in Canaveral - are people entitled to get refunds? For instance we booked a trip to Disney World, but given the abridged timeline would we be able to ask for a refund in the event the same schedule pertains to us next week?

[KeithJenner]

Wow I hope this doesn't affect everyone too much, especially us since we're sailing on Sunday! :D

 

One question - let's say the schedule change affects the excursion timetable in Canaveral - are people entitled to get refunds? For instance we booked a trip to Disney World, but given the abridged timeline would we be able to ask for a refund in the event the same schedule pertains to us next week?

 

I assume you're talking about NCL excursions.

 

If NCL cancel the tour then you will automatically get a refund. I imagine this will be the case for a Disney excursion as the new timings probably wouldn't allow for the excursion to happen.

 

If NCL don't cancel the tour, but you no longer want to take it then you can cancel it yourself, as long as you do it before the deadline (which is either 24 or 48 hours). Given the circumstances, I imagine they would be reasonably lenient if you missed that deadline.

 

Any refunds would be credited to your onboard account I believe.

[chengkp75]

Thanks to Peg013 for the info.

 

I've sailed with Evans, and if he says its the engines, its the engines. I've done a quick port to port calculation, and see that the difference in itinerary means instead of 20 knots (nearly full speed), she is required to make 18 knots. Since Breakaway only has 4 diesel generators, being without one would definitely affect her being able to make full speed (yes, those last two knots of speed requires nearly 20% of the ships power to attain). Repairs to the diesel generators can be made while underway, and MAN (the engine manufacturer) has a large presence for service engineers and materials in Florida. I would say that the problem will most likely not affect the next cruise, unless it is something unusual that requires parts that are generally not kept in stock.

[nycmode]

I assume you're talking about NCL excursions.

 

If NCL cancel the tour then you will automatically get a refund. I imagine this will be the case for a Disney excursion as the new timings probably wouldn't allow for the excursion to happen.

 

If NCL don't cancel the tour, but you no longer want to take it then you can cancel it yourself, as long as you do it before the deadline (which is either 24 or 48 hours). Given the circumstances, I imagine they would be reasonably lenient if you missed that deadline.

 

Any refunds would be credited to your onboard account I believe.

 

Yes indeed! And thank you :)

I guess one of the reasons why we book (albeit sometimes begrudgingly) from NCL is that in case something happens we can see if we can get a refund or OBC that can be promptly spent on more liquor :D

[meatball_nyc]

Thanks to Peg013 for the info.

 

 

 

I've sailed with Evans, and if he says its the engines, its the engines. I've done a quick port to port calculation, and see that the difference in itinerary means instead of 20 knots (nearly full speed), she is required to make 18 knots. Since Breakaway only has 4 diesel generators, being without one would definitely affect her being able to make full speed (yes, those last two knots of speed requires nearly 20% of the ships power to attain). Repairs to the diesel generators can be made while underway, and MAN (the engine manufacturer) has a large presence for service engineers and materials in Florida. I would say that the problem will most likely not affect the next cruise, unless it is something unusual that requires parts that are generally not kept in stock.

 

 

Thank you for this info. Very interesting to read!

 

Safe Sailing

 

 

~Robin

Norwegian Breakaway July 2014

Carnival Miracle 2010

Carnival Legend 2006

[dexddd]

Thanks to Peg013 for the info.

 

I've sailed with Evans, and if he says its the engines, its the engines. I've done a quick port to port calculation, and see that the difference in itinerary means instead of 20 knots (nearly full speed), she is required to make 18 knots. Since Breakaway only has 4 diesel generators, being without one would definitely affect her being able to make full speed (yes, those last two knots of speed requires nearly 20% of the ships power to attain). Repairs to the diesel generators can be made while underway, and MAN (the engine manufacturer) has a large presence for service engineers and materials in Florida. I would say that the problem will most likely not affect the next cruise, unless it is something unusual that requires parts that are generally not kept in stock.

 

Have you been able to track it and the speed? I was supposedly seeing it early this a.m. and a couple times since saying 20.5 knots at 193 heading. But I'm not 100% sure that the info is accurate.

[chengkp75]

Have you been able to track it and the speed? I was supposedly seeing it early this a.m. and a couple times since saying 20.5 knots at 193 heading. But I'm not 100% sure that the info is accurate.

 

I don't hold much with commercial AIS sites (Marine Traffic, etc), which I assume you're using. First off, AIS depends on shore stations, so if the ship is more than about 40 miles offshore, there is no current data, and the commercial sites only subscribe to certain shore stations as well.

 

She could be doing 20.5, while only generating enough power to make 18 knots, this is what we call "slip" or the difference between what the ship's propellers should provide, and what the ship is actually doing (in this case, negative slip). With a following wind, following seas, and if she is properly positioned in the counter-current, she could easily be doing 20.5. As most know, the Gulf Stream flows north along the US East Coast, so travelling south in the teeth of the Stream is not smart. But along both the outer and inner fringes of the Stream, there is a sizable (though not as strong as the Stream itself) counter-current that runs southbound.

[meatball_nyc]

Thanks. I find all this information fascinating.

Great to learn about it.

 

 

 

~Robin

Norwegian Breakaway July 2014

Carnival Miracle 2010

Carnival Legend 2006

[time2cruise1]

Have you been able to track it and the speed? I was supposedly seeing it early this a.m. and a couple times since saying 20.5 knots at 193 heading. But I'm not 100% sure that the info is accurate.

 

There were 3 pings that had the ship doing 20.5 but they were from about 10pm last night EDT.

[smeyer418]

just a note from someone who travels this route once a year(and on different cruise lines sometimes).

 

Carnival builds in another day to do the same route(eight days instead of 7). Its so they won't have to travel at nearly full speed on the run down from NY. Planning to run at almost full speed is heck on the engines. Its why NCL is sometimes are late into Canaveral(like a lot). I have been late a few times on NCL on this run. Almost any delay makes for a late arrival in Florida.

FWIW.

[dexddd]

just a note from someone who travels this route once a year(and on different cruise lines sometimes).

 

Carnival builds in another day to do the same route(eight days instead of 7). Its so they won't have to travel at nearly full speed on the run down from NY. Planning to run at almost full speed is heck on the engines. Its why NCL is sometimes are late into Canaveral(like a lot). I have been late a few times on NCL on this run. Almost any delay makes for a late arrival in Florida.

FWIW.

 

NCL used to do a 6 night out of New York on the Spirit going to PC, Nassau, and GSC. We went on it in 2007 and they had at least 14 dates from the info I had starting at $479 for an inside. Plus we got into PC at 7 or 8 a.m.

[chengkp75]

just a note from someone who travels this route once a year(and on different cruise lines sometimes).

 

Carnival builds in another day to do the same route(eight days instead of 7). Its so they won't have to travel at nearly full speed on the run down from NY. Planning to run at almost full speed is heck on the engines. Its why NCL is sometimes are late into Canaveral(like a lot). I have been late a few times on NCL on this run. Almost any delay makes for a late arrival in Florida.

FWIW.

 

While I'll agree that planning an itinerary going southbound at near design speed is not a good business model, I disagree with you over the "run at almost full speed is heck on the engines". As you say, if you plan for full speed in the itinerary, any problems due to weather or mechanical issues will cause a delay.

 

Breakaway has two azipods rated at 17.5Mw, or 35Mw total. Her generators are rated at 62.4Mw total. Therefore, at full load on the pods, propulsion only accounts for 56% of the rated capacity of the engines, and hotel functions will only add another 10-15%, or 70% of capacity at most. Diesel engines are most efficient when running at 80-90% load. The problem with Breakaway is that with only 4 diesels, loss of only one will bring the capacity down to 48Mw at best (one of the 12 cylinder diesels out), which if you consider the normal automation limit of 85% capacity before load limiting, that's 40.8Mw, and if you take out 8-9Mw for hotel (rather high), you've only got 31+-Mw for propulsion, so you can't get full speed out of your propulsion. This is why most cruise ships have 5-6 separate diesels, so that loss of one will not affect the ability to make full speed. I understand that the Breakaway Plus ships will have a 5th generator of the same size.

[jakeT]

We were on the ship last cruise. We had no problem coming home. It only has to go full speed the first day and half. After FL all the other stops are close by. And it takes two and half days to come home. It only goes 15 nots home

[chengkp75]

We were on the ship last cruise. We had no problem coming home. It only has to go full speed the first day and half. After FL all the other stops are close by. And it takes two and half days to come home. It only goes 15 nots home

 

No one said there would be a problem getting back in time. You are correct, in that the difference in distance between NY-Port Canaveral, and Nassau-NY is only 100 miles or so, and they allow 17 more hours returning than going. There must be a scheduling problem with changing days in the FL and Bahamas ports, as it would make far better sense to allow 2 sea days southbound and only 1 sea day northbound. Let the Stream do the heavy lifting.

[Laszlo]

Lets keep in mind this is probably not an "Engine" Problem. More likely one of the Azipod's is the culprit.

[chengkp75]

Lets keep in mind this is probably not an "Engine" Problem. More likely one of the Azipod's is the culprit.

 

I don't agree, after seeing the notice from the Captain (whom I know personally) that states it's an engine problem. Also, if there was a problem with one of two pods, they would not be able to make the speed they require to make even the revised itinerary.

[smeyer418]

We were on the ship last cruise. We had no problem coming home. It only has to go full speed the first day and half. After FL all the other stops are close by. And it takes two and half days to come home. It only goes 15 nots home

Its required to reduce speed near NY because this is a whale migratory route. They can and sometimes do go faster when there is a medical emergency on board but they have to report that to the coast guard and they better not fib about it.

 

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Speed-Limit-for-Ships-Is-Reduced-to-Protect-North-Atlantic-Right-Whales-237819481.html

[smeyer418]

While I'll agree that planning an itinerary going southbound at near design speed is not a good business model, I disagree with you over the "run at almost full speed is heck on the engines". As you say, if you plan for full speed in the itinerary, any problems due to weather or mechanical issues will cause a delay.

 

Breakaway has two azipods rated at 17.5Mw, or 35Mw total. Her generators are rated at 62.4Mw total. Therefore, at full load on the pods, propulsion only accounts for 56% of the rated capacity of the engines, and hotel functions will only add another 10-15%, or 70% of capacity at most. Diesel engines are most efficient when running at 80-90% load. The problem with Breakaway is that with only 4 diesels, loss of only one will bring the capacity down to 48Mw at best (one of the 12 cylinder diesels out), which if you consider the normal automation limit of 85% capacity before load limiting, that's 40.8Mw, and if you take out 8-9Mw for hotel (rather high), you've only got 31+-Mw for propulsion, so you can't get full speed out of your propulsion. This is why most cruise ships have 5-6 separate diesels, so that loss of one will not affect the ability to make full speed. I understand that the Breakaway Plus ships will have a 5th generator of the same size.

 

 

with respect. Running the ship at full speed is not good for them and is heck on gas mileage. First to get full speed you have to use much more fuel than running at 75% of speed. Running one engine less also saves fuel and allows you when you have a problem to make the same time. Ask NCL and they will tell you that running the Dawn at almost full speed for the time it did when it was traveling from NY to Florida on this run wasn't good for it...

[Laszlo]

I don't agree, after seeing the notice from the Captain (whom I know personally) that states it's an engine problem. Also, if there was a problem with one of two pods, they would not be able to make the speed they require to make even the revised itinerary.

 

 

Not going to disagree but the Breakaway has 6 very large fuel powered engines, which basically power everything electric. The entire propulsion system is electric, the ship needs three online to run at normal cruising speed. One engine is not going to slow the ship down, on a normal day only 4 engines are online, sometimes 5. It could very well be a bearing issue with one of the pods. My numbers may be off, I might be thinking of the Gem

Edited March 17, 2014 by Laszlo