Crew Compensation, Auto-Tips, and Loyalty Status - An Honest discussion

[Pam in CA]

Thanks for the info on tipping. A couple of comments. One is that on Princess, the "auto-tip" was implemented in August or September 2001, so it's been in place for over twelve years.

 

Second, regarding paying crew more, they are hired through agencies which take a percentage of their salary in commission. Pay more and don't tip, and they make less because they have to pay that commission to the agency. Plus, for some, they pay taxes at home and the more they make in salary, the more taxes. While it might be more convenient for passengers to include the tips in the fare and pay the crew higher salaries, many prefer the current system for the above reasons.

[dfields1814]

Regarding the value of the evaluation form. We had my grandson in the kids club for 3 year olds. We do not turn off the automatic tip. I didn't know if the employees of the kids clubs are included in the pool. No matter we gave the employees that watch and entertained my grandson a very heathy tip. They liked the tip but seemed to be even more concerned that I write them a good evaluation. I got the impression the valued the evaluation even more than the extra tip. But that could be just one crew or my impressions of what happened. BTW they got both: a tip and a raving evaluation.

[Salacia]

Thanks for the info on tipping. A couple of comments. One is that on Princess, the "auto-tip" was implemented in August or September 2001, so it's been in place for over twelve years.

 

Second, regarding paying crew more, they are hired through agencies which take a percentage of their salary in commission. Pay more and don't tip, and they make less because they have to pay that commission to the agency. Plus, for some, they pay taxes at home and the more they make in salary, the more taxes. While it might be more convenient for passengers to include the tips in the fare and pay the crew higher salaries, many prefer the current system for the above reasons.

 

Since tips are to be shared "across the fleet" wouldn't this income be shown on crew members pay stubs, unlike cash tips? The concept that crew members wouldn't want to be paid more because "they are hired through agencies which take a percentage of their salary in commission" and they will also pay more in taxes is an interesting theory - but it only works if passengers tip in cash to compensate for crew members low salary. And even then, there seems to be some question as to whether or not those tips must be shared if passengers remove the auto charge.

 

Frankly, I have no way of knowing how many prefer the current/new system. But - sadly, for the first time, I can understand why passengers might elect to opt out of the auto tipping charge. -S.

[dunbawn]

Only twice have we been tempted to remove the "auto-tip" though we never did. Once was when our cabin steward decided to tell us how bad our country was politically and the other was when the steward "forgot" to straighten up our cabin. I didn't think it would be nice to "punish" the other people who rely on the tip. I usually make up tip envelopes before our cruise. Once I have the cruise booked I start to make them. I print up a picture of the ship we are on and put the cabin number on it. During the year I slip extra singles in the envelope if during the course of the cruise I feel someone deserves more I"ll put more in. I do this for land based vacations too.

[Times Prince]

We are right on with maintaining the hotel charge, and tipping extra. And we have learned the importance of the written compliment; the "You Made a Difference" card, and especially a mention on the post cruise survey.

 

Several times we have had crew members mention that a compliment on the post cruise survey may be the difference on whether another contract is offered to the crew member (or someone else) when it comes time to renew again. I was not aware of the point system, but survey compliments probably play into that system.

[Salacia]

We are right on with maintaining the hotel charge, and tipping extra. And we have learned the importance of the written compliment; the "You Made a Difference" card, and especially a mention on the post cruise survey.

 

Several times we have had crew members mention that a compliment on the post cruise survey may be the difference on whether another contract is offered to the crew member (or someone else) when it comes time to renew again. I was not aware of the point system, but survey compliments probably play into that system.

 

 

Yes, that has also been my experience. Just as a couple of examples: a cabin steward that we knew after a couple of voyages on the ship (not on a Princess ship) told us that it was most important for him to get a good score on the survey or his contract would not be renewed and he would be sent home. On another cruise line, our MDR server also asked that we complete the survey and please to give him a high rating. My impression was that crew member's score on the survey is of paramount importance in terms of whether or not their contract is renewed or terminated. If it has any impact on the amount of money crew members get from the auto-tip pool, I have no personal information. But the thought that crew members need to request a high score on surveys to either keep their job or supplement their income is disquieting, imho.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Salacia

[Salacia]

The new pooling system makes sense, as it definitely spreads the impact for adverse affects a little better (for example, I am certain tips were down on the recent crown sailing).

 

I'll see if I can dig into the point system a little.

 

The only downside I can see is it probably takes the crew member a little longer to see the tips as the auto-tips have to be reported across the ship classes, and with different sail dates they must be doing on it a regular schedule (monthly?)[/quote]

 

That's a good question: over what period of time are the auto-tips "shared across the Princess Fleet"? I imagine all of the auto-tips across the fleet amount to a sizable amount of money for however amount of time the account is held prior to being "shared". How frequently is that money distributed to crew members?

[caribill]

I didn't know if the employees of the kids clubs are included in the pool.

 

They are not.

[lovesublime]

I'm curious as to how such a conversation transpires between a pax and cruise ship employees. It seems to me, to be completely inappropriate on the part of the pax and unprofessional of the employees.

 

BTW, I am really tired of hearing how the crew works so hard for money for their families :rolleyes: Don't we all!!

 

Also, if I receive poor service from crew, you can bet I will make note of that on the survey.

[harfield]

Quote.

Let me start by saying we cruise a lot (over 70 days each year) and do not remove auto tips when on lines like Princess that impose such fees. We also will often give extra tips to specific crew for extraordinary service.

 

 

That being said, we are totally opposed to this entire faux-tip system used by Princess (and many other lines). Calling the system "tips" is just one big lie! It is simply a way for the cruise lines to market a lower price, while using their faux-tip system as a way to increase the cruise price without fully disclosing that in their ads. If they simply increase the price of the cruise by $13 a passenger day, and then enforce a no-tipping policy, this would be a much more honest approach.

 

 

Now, we also have some strong feelings about crew compensation. To be blunt, we see it as none of our business! When we go into a restaurant we do not concern ourselves with the compensation of the cooks in the kitchen, the dishwasher, the laundry man/woman, etc. When we go to a hotel we do not concern ourselves with the compensation of the desk clerk, the cleaning staff, etc. When we fly on the airlines we do not concern ourselves with the compensation of the flight attendants. the gate agent, etc. So why in the world should we be concerned about the compensation of the crew on a ship...most of whom we never even see!

 

 

Folks need to understand that nobody is "impressed" into cruise ship service. The crew competes to get their jobs, they are not slaves, and they can choose to quit anytime they please (although they will pay their own way home if they do not complete their contract). We also have some friends (both Officers and regular crew) who work on cruise ships. What they talk about is not their tips, but the respect (or lack thereof) they get from passengers. We see passengers mistreat crew on every cruise and assume their attitude is "we pay tips so we don't have to be polite." If you are in a position to ask crew members what they want from passengers, they will usually say they want to be treated with respect and consideration. Sure, they appreciate any extra tips...but more importantly they appreciate the considerate passenger. When we talk to our friends they do not talk about tips..but rather the nice passengers and the "jerks" they meet during their work.

 

 

A couple of years ago we were on a long (62 day) HAL cruise and became pretty friendly with the bar staff in a certain bar...who served us every day. They were so good that we actually wrote a note to the hotel manager praising these folks. The ripple effect was amazing. We got thanks from ships beverage manager, hotel director, and lots of smiles and thanks from the bar staff. The impact was far greater then we would normally get by slipping a twenty to a staff member (we do that too). So my advice to any cruiser is that if you encounter an exceptional crew member, make sure his/her chain of command is aware of that fact.

...........".....................

 

Thank you for a different point of view and total agree with what you said.

Yes we do remove auto tips but always tip the staff directly.

 

A few points that I would like to express and is only my opinion.

Here in Australia tipping is not applied to most services as the wages are a lot higher so you will find that a lot of Aussie do remove the tips . I agree that if the cruise lines pay their staff a decent wage instead of treating them like slaves it would be better for everyone.

As for cruises being cheap that maybe the case in the states but here in Australia our prices are a lot higher so tips should be included in the total price as we all get the same service.

Tips means a voluntary reward if you wish, not compulsory.

The staff do work very hard and in most cases deserves their tips.

Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

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[dorisis]

on the australian based princess ships all gratuities are included in the fare if booked with a local ta and things work out well

 

i wish that were the case here in usa.

[chester32]

Not defending tip removers (never done it myself), but most blue cards probaly don't know they can remove the tips.

 

Unfortunately those that remove tips onboard, probally minimal tip on land also.

Don't know why you think blue cards don't know, there is over loyalty programmes other than that on princess but I certainly agree no one should remove the gratuities there are part off the price anyway (prepay)

[lexdisic]

I have met many cruisers who say "I dont tip" which makes me quite angry that I am subsidising their share of their cruise costs. Even on a land trip I was asked if I was going to tip (we had a wonderful tour) and when I said yes and they said they wouldnt bother, it then made me feel guilty that I hadnt given enough considering I was the only one that did.

Make it mandatory within the cruise price and tip appropriately for above and beyond. Those that dont tip wont for above and beyond anyway but at least they will pay their fair share. As posted, any dissatisfaction can be noted on the survey.

Unfortunately it requires the co-operation of all the cruise lines and there will be those lines that use the auto tip to reduce the base cruise price and may not be willing to be the first to implement it for fear of losing their marketing edge.

[Dan1113]

Thank you for a different point of view and total agree with what you said.

Yes we do remove auto tips but always tip the staff directly.

 

See, I am not sure how fair doing that actually is. Sure, it is great and very rewarding for the staff who are very visible in making your cruise a good experience -- and lucky for them! -- but there are plenty of other people who will have minimal to no customer contact at all, but they are equally as valuable in making the experience a good one.

 

That being said, I agree with previous comments about the auto tipping just being a way to lower prices etc. I'd much rather it be simply included in the price to begin with, with fair wages being paid to everyone.

[mollymoo12]

Surely if the tip was included in the fare, it would not need to be the equivalent of $11.50/$12.50 a day?

 

I am sure if they added on around $8 a day to the fare this would raise the same amount of tips for the staff as this amount is guaranteed as everyone has to pay it. This would allow for the fact that perhaps a third of auto tips get taken off (no idea if this guesstimate is right or not but you get the gist of what I am saying I hope).

 

I would gladly pay $8 a day on top of my fare, especially knowing that everyone else is paying the same.

 

I never take auto-tips off, even though being British, we do not have the same culture of tipping over here.

[majortom10]

Sorry to upset our American cruisers but tipping in America and the UK is a culture thing and totally different where staff working in bars and restaurants already get a minimum wage so are not reliant on tips in the UK. Very few people when going to a "pub" for a drink would think about leaving a tip and some but not all might leave a tip in a restaurant depending on the establishment and the service they get. For what it is worth and I know upsetting a lot of people when we cruise with Princess it is usually on 14nt cruises and to pay for a couple £200 and then add on top 15% tip for every drink is excessive. We remove our tips and then as the whole idea of tips is to give tips for good service received either it be by waiters or cabin stewards and not have it automatically taken whether you have had good service or not. Before everybody jumps on the bandwagon and say you never get poor service on Princess last year we had appalling service in Crown Grill and walked out of meal halfway through the meal with wife in tears, special meal to celebrate a special birthday which is why we booked the cruise.

[CRLess]

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to post, as some here do, that I'd actually inquired of staff what their compensation arrangements were. Imagine if it were turnabout and one's room steward was suddenly curious about one's take-home pay, one's average 401(k) deducation, and how much FICA one was paying in monthly. Some of our fellow cruisers are seriously boundary-challenged.

 

I'm curious as to how such a conversation transpires between a pax and cruise ship employees. It seems to me, to be completely inappropriate on the part of the pax and unprofessional of the employees.

 

BTW, I am really tired of hearing how the crew works so hard for money for their families :rolleyes: Don't we all!!

 

Also, if I receive poor service from crew, you can bet I will make note of that on the survey.

 

To be clear, the subject came up as part of a normal conversation with one of the staff. I would never ask a total stranger "How much money do you make". That is simply tacky. I always ask the staff how many contracts they have completed and how far into their current contract they are. It is simply an ice breaker to get them to open up and talk. In the particular conversation I was having, this staff member was telling me about how he moved through the ranks over his many contracts and he told me about how he was compensated...not how much money he makes, but rather how he earned his points. It was during this conversation that I was told the comment cards are far more important than anything.

 

As for your comment Sublime...I agree we all work hard. However, I seriously doubt that any of us work 10 months straight, every day of the week, 12+ hours a day, before we get a day off. It's all about perspective...

[lexdisic]

Sorry to upset our American cruisers but tipping in America and the UK is a culture thing and totally different where staff working in bars and restaurants already get a minimum wage so are not reliant on tips in the UK. Very few people when going to a "pub" for a drink would think about leaving a tip and some but not all might leave a tip in a restaurant depending on the establishment and the service they get.

 

We are not in the UK and the cruise staff dont have the protection of UK laws - they rely solely on the "gratuities" although they are the service charge - there is a difference. Saying that we are "British" is no excuse when we are using the services in another jurisdiction. Its the way they are paid. Tipping is a different issue and should be treated separately. The British restaurant includes a service charge within the bill which is obligatory and, of course tipping is discretionary. When in Rome ........

[ccrain]

Great civil discussion on tipping.

 

We have never removed the auto-tip and we tip staff who go above and beyond extra at the end of the cruise - like the ladies or gents who clean the public bathrooms on deck 7. We've even tipped a couple of head waiters in Anytime for extraordinary service and we have always tipped our room steward extra. Some more than others.

 

We also diligently fill out the blue cards, commend specific people on the survey and mention a lot more on the travelog that gets sent to Princess after every cruise. We also make it a point, during social gathering like the Elite Lounge or the CC party to track down people's supervisors and specifically point out what a good job certain people do. And we follow the chain up to the chef or the matre de or the F&B manager when someone does a great job.

 

We have also been known to walk up to the Purser's Desk and state very loudly that we have absolutely no complaints! That really throws them for a loop!

 

Oh and our new hobby is passing out candy to the crew and staff at every opportunity...

 

That being said, no cruise is every perfect and we take the little things in stride. The missed shampoo bottle, no paper towels in the restroom. Bigger things we take care of on the ship with the purser's desk or the individual supervisors. But we have never, ever, in 30+ cruises and over 350 days at sea ever had an incident that was unforgivable or was absolutely uncalled for by any of the crew. On the other hand we have witnessed many times passengers berating staff, especially at the purser's desk, or being disrespectful or just plain rude.

 

And we include all of these extra tips, and the auto-tips, in our budgeting for the cruise, so I am torn as to whether or not I want those as part of the cruise fare or not. I understand there are corporate tax, marketing and other business reasons for having "tips", but I won't even begin to guess what they are.

 

I do know that the staff appreciates us and our business. Whether its a piece of salt water taffy or an envelope stuffed with all of our left over currency from a dozen countries, their smiles makes it all worthwhile...

[ccrain]

We are not in the UK and the cruise staff dont have the protection of UK laws - they rely solely on the "gratuities" although they are the service charge - there is a difference. Saying that we are "British" is no excuse when we are using the services in another jurisdiction. Its the way they are paid. Tipping is a different issue and should be treated separately. The British restaurant includes a service charge within the bill which is obligatory and, of course tipping is discretionary. When in Rome ........

 

In the US tipped employees are paid a sub-minimum wage AND have taxes taken out based on the gross revenue of the business allocated per tipped employee. It is not unusual for waitresses to not even get a paycheck as all is taken out for Taxes based on the allocation of gross revenue. (The last I looked it was assumed by the IRS that the tipped employee makes 8% tips and they are taxed on that basis.)

 

That being said, most tipped employees I know make all of their money on tips. My granddaughter just started at a waitress and was making $100 per day in tips alone, working part time!

 

We have a hard time in Europe not tipping like in the US. It almost feels wrong, so the cultural differences cut both ways!

[Dave.ca]

Firstly, let me say that we always leave auto-tips in place, and often tip additionally for exceptional service. That said...

 

Tips from the pool to the wait staff and housekeeping are determined by the number of “points” that person has (a function of seniority, ratings from surveys, and job classification).

 

Thank-you for this. We have often skipped filling out the post cruise survey, not understanding its importance in this context. We will no longer do so.

 

Bottom line…After hearing this, I feel it is shameful to remove auto-tips from your shipboard account. All these people work hard to support themselves and perhaps a family back home. If you are not happy with the service you receive, removing auto-tips does NOT punish the person providing the poor service…it hurts them all.

 

Many people object to the concept of blanket tipping and (unaware that it gets pooled anyway) prefer to tip as they see fit. It does not make them shamefull, just uninformed.

 

Cruise fares are so cheap now, the non-salaried staff depends on tips to earn a living.. Auto-tips should be considered as a mandatory cost to your cruise…I wish Princess would make it impossible to remove them from your account..

 

I agree that people should just be paid a decent wage. But this would, of course, increase the "upfront" cost of the cruise. And the cruise industry is not alone in burying additional costs in fine print to advertise the lowest price possible. Airlines, hotels, car dealerships...

 

 

And according to the staff, who is the biggest offender of auto-tip removal? I’ll give you a hint….it’s not the Blue cards (or the Red, Gold or Silver)….I was truly shocked to find out that it is the most-experienced cruisers that are guilty of this. How embarrassing….makes me wonder why first time cruisers seem to get upgrades more often than those of us at the higher loyalty levels.

 

Wow. where to start. Again, the implication that auto-tip removal = tip avoiding is unfair. That the most experienced cruises are "guilty" of auto-tip removal could just as easily mean that, as more experienced cruisers, they have settled on their own tipping routines. Finally, the suggestion that corpoarte doles out upgrades based on how a passenger tips the staff that corparate itself underpays is, well, silly. New customers get upgrades to seduce them into becoming repeat customers. Higher loyalty levels are already seduced by climbing the loyalty ladder.

 

Please don’t shoot the messenger…I am only passing along information provided to me from the staff, since I took an interest in how they were compensated.

 

Not shooting, honest. Just pointing out that you've been a bit harsh in some of your conclusions. As well, I'll point out your own statement "information provided to me from the staff". We all come to like many of the staff we interact with on our cruises. They are part of our lives for 7, 14, or more days at a time. It is a much more intimate relationship than that we have with any other service industry workers. But, bottom line, we are customers. They want our tips. If telling us how poorly they're treated by OTHER cruisers will help... Just sayin'. Grain of salt.

[FritzG]

A few points that I would like to express and is only my opinion.

Here in Australia tipping is not applied to most services as the wages are a lot higher so you will find that a lot of Aussie do remove the tips . I agree that if the cruise lines pay their staff a decent wage instead of treating them like slaves it would be better for everyone.

As for cruises being cheap that maybe the case in the states but here in Australia our prices are a lot higher so tips should be included in the total price as we all get the same service.

Tips means a voluntary reward if you wish, not compulsory.

The staff do work very hard and in most cases deserves their tips.

Just my opinion.

 

Is it possible that the cruise prices are higher because Australians sometimes remove auto tips?

[two_black_dogs]

Cruise prices are higher in Australia because there are no auto tips. In other words, the price charged is exactly that. The service charge/gratuity is built into the price structure, and staff are paid accordingly. There is no option to remove this apparently "voluntary" payment. Of course, if people want to make payments over and above, they will no doubt be appreciated by the recipients.

[lexdisic]

Cruise prices are higher in Australia because there are no auto tips. In other words, the price charged is exactly that. The service charge/gratuity is built into the price structure, and staff are paid accordingly. There is no option to remove this apparently "voluntary" payment. Of course, if people want to make payments over and above, they will no doubt be appreciated by the recipients.

 

Am I right in saying that there is no gratuity on drinks either on Oz cruises? If so, it would be interesting to see the price of drinks and if they distinguish between Oz and other passengers or at what point do they put the gratuity back on/reduce price - could play havoc with the admin of bar staff wages

[Loonbeam]

It's broken out, just like in many land based restaurants where if you add the tip to a credit card, it gets posted to their next check.

 

The reason it needs to be referred to as an 'optional hotel charge' or tip, is a matter of legal terminology.

 

As long as it is at least technically optional (you can opt out), its considered a gratuity and thus subject to those rules, which can vary from country to country and agency to agency. If the amount cannot be removed, its considered salary, since its 'guaranteed'.

 

Since Princess also pays a fee to some agencies based on salary (some are per employee), the amount currently covered by the hotel charge would actually have to increase a bit to cover Princess's cost. Also, as a reminder, taxes and insurance are based on the pre-cruise paid fare amounts, so raising the fares to cover the auto-tip would increase those as well.

 

Since tips are to be shared "across the fleet" wouldn't this income be shown on crew members pay stubs, unlike cash tips? The concept that crew members wouldn't want to be paid more because "they are hired through agencies which take a percentage of their salary in commission" and they will also pay more in taxes is an interesting theory - but it only works if passengers tip in cash to compensate for crew members low salary. And even then, there seems to be some question as to whether or not those tips must be shared if passengers remove the auto charge.

 

Frankly, I have no way of knowing how many prefer the current/new system. But - sadly, for the first time, I can understand why passengers might elect to opt out of the auto tipping charge. -S.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Loonbeam