Crew Compensation, Auto-Tips, and Loyalty Status - An Honest discussion

[Colo Cruiser]

Second, regarding paying crew more, they are hired through agencies which take a percentage of their salary in commission. Pay more and don't tip, and they make less because they have to pay that commission to the agency. Plus, for some, they pay taxes at home and the more they make in salary, the more taxes. While it might be more convenient for passengers to include the tips in the fare and pay the crew higher salaries, many prefer the current system for the above reasons.

 

 

If you call a fee part of the crewmembers salary then yes, however they don't take a percentage over the length of their contract. Its a one time fee.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Colo Cruiser

[lexdisic]

Does anyone know just how many people opt out of the auto tip? I cant start to imagine how the tax implications can impact on their wages but what would be better 1) have people opt out and staff pay less tax or 2) everyone opt in giving a higher gross and pay the tax? :confused::confused:

[Colo Cruiser]

Does anyone know just how many people opt out of the auto tip? I cant start to imagine how the tax implications can impact on their wages but what would be better 1) have people opt out and staff pay less tax or 2) everyone opt in giving a higher gross and pay the tax? :confused::confused:

 

Many don't pay a tax.

[lexdisic]

Many don't pay a tax.

 

So is there any benefit to keep the "gratuity" as a voluntary payment that allows opt outs - or just include it as part of the cruise fare?

[Colo Cruiser]

So is there any benefit to keep the "gratuity" as a voluntary payment that allows opt outs - or just include it as part of the cruise fare?

 

Or keep it and don't allow opt outs.

[coloradocruisers101]

Thanks for the information Chris, and this info we know, but many might not. Regarding the post cruise survey, we had a situation with a bar manager on the Royal last month. I was discussing it with another bar server and it got back to the manager. He was so insistant to make it right to us, almost overboard to where it was embarrasing. Found out later that the survey is the most important part of their points/keeping their contracts and management mainly looks at the negative comments. With that said, we did not make any negative comments. It was the first night and his first time on the Royal. Things happened for different reasons and we don't know everyones situation. The entire cruise was great and every staff member was wonderful. We ALWAYS keep to auto tip on and also tip most servers. Just wanted to mention how important the surveys are to the crew members.

[swedish weave]

I understand the difference in the tipping practices in different parts of the world, but one thing that I question is how the system works when those from Australia or UK book their cruises through a USA based agency.

 

I see many posts that indicate the booking is done that way because it is less costly. If tips are included in the price in Australia and they are not in the USA, what is used to determine who gets charged the daily service charge ?

[lexdisic]

I understand the difference in the tipping practices in different parts of the world, but one thing that I question is how the system works when those from Australia or UK book their cruises through a USA based agency.

 

I see many posts that indicate the booking is done that way because it is less costly. If tips are included in the price in Australia and they are not in the USA, what is used to determine who gets charged the daily service charge ?

 

Sometimes booking with a US TA can be cheaper than the ones in the UK. Deposits are non refundable in the UK and gratuities are the same. There can be drawbacks if anything goes wrong as officially it is not allowed by the cruise lines and any consumer protection we have here would be lost. I can only assume that if an Aussie booked through a US TA then they would have to pay the same gratuities

[ProjectJack]

Bottom line…After hearing this, I feel it is shameful to remove auto-tips from your shipboard account. All these people work hard to support themselves and perhaps a family back home. If you are not happy with the service you receive, removing auto-tips does NOT punish the person providing the poor service…it hurts them all. Giving poor grades to the person or staff that let you down in your post-cruise survey is more harmful than anything you can do, since it can take points away from the person. Remember…points determine their share of the tip pool. Cruise fares are so cheap now, the non-salaried staff depends on tips to earn a living. Auto-tips should be considered as a mandatory cost to your cruise…I wish Princess would make it impossible to remove them from your account.

 

Wow thanks for posting this and I could not agree more. I was unaware that anyone actually did this.

 

My fiancee and I are in our late 20s/early 30s and both worked in the service industry through college. We have recent memories of how awful this type of work can be and how downright abusive some customers are. These people deserve every cent of the minimum "auto-tip" even if they have a bad day. We tip well above the minimum on each cruise and I thought (and I hope) that is common.

[PescadoAmarillo]

I'm curious as to how such a conversation transpires between a pax and cruise ship employees. It seems to me, to be completely inappropriate on the part of the pax and unprofessional of the employees.

 

BTW, I am really tired of hearing how the crew works so hard for money for their families :rolleyes: Don't we all!!

In the OP's defense, we have no idea just how this conversation went down, and I do believe it was as innocuous as he/she claims. I think it's unfair for us to assume that everyone's interactions with the crew are the same as ours. Certainly, there are crew members who welcome a deeper conversation, and do open up a bit more. There's nothing impolite about building on that, nor in sharing information (both ways) that wouldn't be shared in 99% of crew interactions.

 

I had someone on this board once accuse me of taking an officer's valuable time to ask a question (really), when, in fact, we were standing behind her for awhile waiting to disembark, and had time to talk about that question and many other things. My point is, we shouldn't judge when we don't know the context.

 

As for all of us working hard...yes, too true. Try telling any employed parent that working 10 hours a day 7 days a week for 10 months is grueling, and you'll get no argument. But it's also the reality of most of the world's population. I think it's a wonderful thing that the crew has the opportunity to make more money than they ever would at home, and whether they choose to do it for one contract, or many years, as others have pointed out, this isn't slavery. I show them sincere appreciation for their effort; I don't act they're being held against their will in an untenable situation.

Edited April 24, 2014 by PescadoAmarillo

[golfb4cruzing]

While touring Roatan in a rented cab, the cabbie was telling us that the general population averaged $100 per WEEK. So while the crews do put in many hours, the end result for them and their families is substantially better. My son and I started our own business, we closed for 3 Holidays each year and the rest was at the job. We did this for 4 years. It's necessary to grow a business. It's all relative.

[cr8tiv1]

Very interesting thread. Thanks Chris for getting this started. Here's my two cents.

 

Before I knew better, I did amend my auto tips (to 75%). My thinking was that those who deserved it would be more rewarded. I have since learned that I was wrong. I will not do this again.

 

I would also like to think that my "Consummate Host" comment cards and after a cruise survey helped a waiter that I had on several cruises (5 Golden Princess voyages in less a year) becoming a Horizon Court Supervisor. He was terrific. He remembered me each time. He acknowledge and greeted me every time we were in the same area. And I don't think it was because of the tips I handed him on various occasions. He was just a great guy.

 

And lastly, NCL Hawaii pays US minimum wages and gratuities are still expected. I did meet a land based waiter who was on one contract with NCL. He voluntarily discussed the atmosphere on the ship and how hard it was to keep US residents on staff. I did one voyage with The Spirit of Aloha and will not do this again (although I do have to admit that NCL has the very best itinerary for the same cost of a 15 day cruise from LA). I think the service on Princess ships is outstanding.

[billco]

When we go on a cruise, the furthest thing from our minds is how the crew gets compensated or how the hotel charge is distributed. I don't really understand why there is so much discussion about it.

[more cruises]

partial quote:

 

"...During your cruise, regardless of which Princess ship you choose, you will meet staff who provide you with excellent service. Crew members often rotate to different vessels within the Princess fleet which helps to maintain our high standards on every ship. These dedicated workers reflect our philosophy that all crew on all ships are but one family who share in our success.

To simplify the tipping process for our passengers, a discretionary gratuity of $12 per person for mini-suites and suites, and $11.50 per passenger in all other staterooms per day (including children) will be automatically added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. This gratuity will be shared amongst those staff who help provide and support your cruise experience, including all waitstaff, stateroom stewards, buffet stewards, and housekeeping staff across the fleet..." copied from http://www.princess.com/learn/faq_answer/onboard/experience.jsp

 

I personally don't like this policy, I prefer my gratuities go to the people who actually provide me the service. On the other hand, I totally understand the reasoning for this - why should a US based cabin attendant make more than a European or Australian cabin attendant simply based on the tipping culture of where their ship is cruising?

 

What I don't like is they way the service people hang around the last night of the cruise looking for an additional tip. Don't get me wrong, we always leave the auto tip in place and usually tip our cabin steward extra (because we ask for extra things), I just don't like that they expect it.

 

We have Anytime dining so we don't generally give our waiters an additional tip. I feel like they give us average service at best. Maybe if we had Traditional Dining and had a chance to build a relationship with the wait staff I would feel differently.

[Cruisin' Chick]

Now I feel doubly happy that I did do the post-cruise online survey. What helped was having our waitstaff's names (on the last day, our waiter wrote down his name and his assistant's), our Sabatini's waitstaff names (hubby made sure to get their names), and our cabin steward (I took a photo of his card in the cabin). The previous cruise, I never got around to doing the survey as I had a lot to attend to at that time.

 

On a tour we took on the last cruise, as we were leaving the bus at the port terminal, hubby made sure to give the guide some money for her and her driver. We noticed that some of the others didn't. But I'm guessing they probably enjoyed the day as much as we did.

 

And it's nice to know that our enthusiasm about crew members can help them get promotions. We were happy to see our assistant waiter on our first Princess cruise had been promoted and was our waiter on our second one, a year and a half later.

[Loonbeam]

Depends on the agency as I understand it. Some do get a percentage of base compensation over the length of the contract. I am not sure which one(s) Princess uses. Even the fee is usually computed on base pay.

 

 

 

If you call a fee part of the crewmembers salary then yes, however they don't take a percentage over the length of their contract. Its a one time fee.

[Loonbeam]

See my above post- it reduces passenger taxes, insurance costs, carrying costs and in some cases where taxed or feed separately means more money to the crew member.

 

So is there any benefit to keep the "gratuity" as a voluntary payment that allows opt outs - or just include it as part of the cruise fare?

[Colo Cruiser]

Depends on the agency as I understand it. Some do get a percentage of base compensation over the length of the contract. I am not sure which one(s) Princess uses. Even the fee is usually computed on base pay.

 

 

That would be the fee in any case.

[hillslife]

We heard the same info from a crew member on our TA last year. He was on a couple of our shore excursions as an escort and we had plenty of time to chat during the days. He said it was a pretty new process, but seemed to be working well for the crew. Some itineraries and areas of the world are historically known to be poor tippers, so to make it more fair to all, they stared pooling the tips.

 

So he said when a crew member leaves the ship at the end of a contract, HQ pays them on departure and knows exactly how much tips they will get based on the average of their ship class. So he was all in favor of it.

[tothemall&beyond]

More Cruises wrote: I personally don't like this policy, I prefer my gratuities go to the people who actually provide me the service.

... We have Anytime dining so we don't generally give our waiters an additional tip. I feel like they give us average service at best. Maybe if we had Traditional Dining and had a chance to build a relationship with the wait staff I would feel differently.

 

 

I agree. And as another poster wrote, it is not right for the OP and others to be so judgmental of those who remove auto tips.

 

We remove the autotips because: 1) we object to having to pre-tip for service I may or may not receive - especially true if you use Anytime Dining; 2) we object to the manner in which Princess disburses the tips, especially with the new cross-fleet method; 3) we object to tipping people with whom I do not have any direct interaction, merely for doing their jobs.

 

Auto tips are a way for Princess to avoid paying their crew proper salaries. We refuse to participate in their scheme. I would be fine with paying a few more dollars per day (but not $11.50) for the crew to have a better salary and not be so reliant on tips.

 

We tip our cabin stewards very well - more than what the auto tip would be. We also tip everyone else who provides us service above and beyond what they "have to do". We also write extremely detailed recommendations on the post-cruise survey that goes directly to Princess, not to the ship's staff. One Deputy Cruise Director that we repeatedly lauded after sailing 4 cruises (just under 40 nights) with him was indeed promoted to Cruise Director last month.

 

Yes, the crew members work hard. But so do we all. They are not indentured slaves. They have a choice as to whether or not they wish to work in this industry. I recognize superior service through my tips, not just mere existence.

Edited April 24, 2014 by tothemall&beyond

[pablo222]

We tip our cabin stewards very well - more than what the auto tip would be. We also tip everyone else who provides us service above and beyond what they "have to do".

 

So, a waiter who does a competent job would receive nothing from you?

[jnc411]

To the OP, thank you for such a good informational post. I did not know some of these things, and it is helpful to know. Some of the comment regarding just put the tip amount added to the cost of the cruise up front are worth considering depending on how it would affect the total amount the crew would receive. And I never book a cruise without first adding the amount the tips would be to the cost of the cruise ( and insurance for that matter). Then I consider that the price of the cruise. If that is what I am willing to pay , fine, I then book the cruise, If I think that is more than I am willing to pay then I don't book the cruise. I just consider it part of the price of the cruise from the get go. I have never taken the auto tips off and don't intend to in the future. As in all things I guess it is different strokes for different folks. We have worked very hard for whatever we have and I can see that the crew on the ships also works very hard as well. I believe in the " Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" rule. So we leave the tips on....

Cori

[JustinPlusLauren]

Totally agree with the OP - I would never remove auto tips. I would likely miss someone in the process and there are so many people working behind the scenes that I don't even know to tip sometimes. I tip above and beyond to those who made our cruise special! Everyone on the ships works so hard and they deserve it!!

 

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[judyjudy56]

We never remove the auto tips and on most cruises we tip very generously during and at the end of the cruise those who have done and exceptional job. We always let them know that we have not removed the auto tips so the money is for them to keep. We also thank them for the service they have provided. I usually fill out you made a difference cards but now will do that as well as specifically mention those people in the online survey. Interesting to know about the point system. I can't even imagine doing the work that the crew does day in and day out.

[Loonbeam]

You do understand that when you do this, the steward has to turn in the tips to make up the auto-tip amount into the pool? Until that is caught up, he does NOT get to keep what you give him.

 

Example. At the end of a 7 day cruise, you give your steward $100 for 2 people (more than the auto tip would be) and $20 to a waiter you liked.

 

The auto tip for 7 days = $23.00x7 or $161. So all of that $120 will go into the tip pool and the steward will get back a pro-rated share of the now undertipped amount (it used to be a direct share, now its based on the new point system so not sure exactly how much, but I will go with the old formula where about 50% went to the steward. The steward will get back something in the area of $60 and the server about $20-30 depending on being a head or assistant. The rest will go to back of house, other serving staff, etc.

 

So by doing it that way, you are not giving what you think you are.

 

 

 

More Cruises wrote: I personally don't like this policy, I prefer my gratuities go to the people who actually provide me the service.

... We have Anytime dining so we don't generally give our waiters an additional tip. I feel like they give us average service at best. Maybe if we had Traditional Dining and had a chance to build a relationship with the wait staff I would feel differently.

 

 

I agree. And as another poster wrote, it is not right for the OP and others to be so judgmental of those who remove auto tips.

 

We remove the autotips because: 1) we object to having to pre-tip for service I may or may not receive - especially true if you use Anytime Dining; 2) we object to the manner in which Princess disburses the tips, especially with the new cross-fleet method; 3) we object to tipping people with whom I do not have any direct interaction, merely for doing their jobs.

 

Auto tips are a way for Princess to avoid paying their crew proper salaries. We refuse to participate in their scheme. I would be fine with paying a few more dollars per day (but not $11.50) for the crew to have a better salary and not be so reliant on tips.

 

We tip our cabin stewards very well - more than what the auto tip would be. We also tip everyone else who provides us service above and beyond what they "have to do". We also write extremely detailed recommendations on the post-cruise survey that goes directly to Princess, not to the ship's staff. One Deputy Cruise Director that we repeatedly lauded after sailing 4 cruises (just under 40 nights) with him was indeed promoted to Cruise Director last month.

 

Yes, the crew members work hard. But so do we all. They are not indentured slaves. They have a choice as to whether or not they wish to work in this industry. I recognize superior service through my tips, not just mere existence.