Open Passage Concerns (Threads Merged)

[Arizonasunshine]

My problem with Open Passages is that Azamara has a habit of changing the rules in the middle of the game. The post concerning the 25% land discoveries discount is an example. It seems to me that Azamara thinks that they can offer and make a deal, and then change it to suit their needs.

[marinaro44]

My problem with Open Passages is that Azamara has a habit of changing the rules in the middle of the game. The post concerning the 25% land discoveries discount is an example. It seems to me that Azamara thinks that they can offer and make a deal, and then change it to suit their needs.

I've been buying Open Passages for four years and the rules have not changed in that time. The problem is some people buy them without reading the terms and restrictions, and then complain when the restrictions apply to their situation.

[Jade13]

I am pleased to report that after E Mail discussions with customer services regarding the on board sale and subsequent "attempt to use" an open passage certificate/certificattes this has now been resolved to our satisfaction.

 

So, did you get the additional discount?

 

Also, do you have the low deposit or are you already after final payment? I ask because one of the benefits of booking onboard is the low deposit BUT, all group rates as far as I know require a full deposit, hence the travel agents saying the Passages can not be used (with their group rate). Was that the case with your situation?

[BBMacLaird]

Hello All,

 

There has been much discussion and debate regarding the Open Passages certificates. When you refer to the terms and conditions printed on the Open Passages certificate you will note these restrictions.

 

- A Open Passage booking may not be combinable with more than two other Onboard Credits and dollars off promotions.

 

- Converting an Open Passage account to select restricted fares is prohibited.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account cannot be used for cruises chartered by third parties and may not be used for certain customized group programs.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account balance is not redeemable for cash.

 

- Certain restrictions apply.

 

If you are having issues redeeming your Open Passages certificate perhaps your travel agent is working with one of these restricted programs.

[Jade13]

BBMacLaird;42921455][/b]Hello All,

 

There has been much discussion and debate regarding the Open Passages certificates. When you refer to the terms and conditions printed on the Open Passages certificate you will note these restrictions.

 

- A Open Passage booking may not be combinable with more than two other Onboard Credits and dollars off promotions.

 

- Converting an Open Passage account to select restricted fares is prohibited.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account cannot be used for cruises chartered by third parties and may not be used for certain customized group programs.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account balance is not redeemable for cash.

 

- Certain restrictions apply.

 

If you are having issues redeeming your Open Passages certificate perhaps your travel agent is working with one of these restricted programs.

 

Bonnie,

 

With all due respect, wouldn't it be more helpful if you let us all know what the majority of issues the company is finding as to the reasons why so many are having trouble redeeming their Passages?

 

I think most people on this board have looked at the restrictions, and if not, they have been posted previously or a link was provided. I guess it is good that you reminded everyone of the restrictions.

 

By "two other" promotions, does that mean that passengers can pick which ones they want to use? It doesn't sound like these TA's are giving their clients options. I am not in the UK, but I know that many in Europe have bundled packages so would probably like to know if the certificates can be used with the bundled air and hotel packages?

 

Furthermore, and not mentioned, is whether "guests" are given the option to just use the Passage without the discount so they do not loose the non-refundable deposit amount. I did that with a Celebrity Passage which I used to book a Galapagos cruise two years in advance. My only advantage was that I only had to pay the lower deposit until final payment, no OBC as is usually the bonus with Celebrity Passages.

 

It would be helpful to understand better examples of what would not qualify. By restricted fares I always thought Azamara meant interline/industry rates.

[Arizonasunshine]

Hello All,

 

There has been much discussion and debate regarding the Open Passages certificates. When you refer to the terms and conditions printed on the Open Passages certificate you will note these restrictions.

 

- A Open Passage booking may not be combinable with more than two other Onboard Credits and dollars off promotions.

 

- Converting an Open Passage account to select restricted fares is prohibited.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account cannot be used for cruises chartered by third parties and may not be used for certain customized group programs.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account balance is not redeemable for cash.

 

- Certain restrictions apply.

 

If you are having issues redeeming your Open Passages certificate perhaps your travel agent is working with one of these restricted programs.

 

Does the recent double upgrade promo count as one or two credits??

[Panderie]

Hello All,

 

There has been much discussion and debate regarding the Open Passages certificates. When you refer to the terms and conditions printed on the Open Passages certificate you will note these restrictions.

 

- A Open Passage booking may not be combinable with more than two other Onboard Credits and dollars off promotions.

 

- Converting an Open Passage account to select restricted fares is prohibited.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account cannot be used for cruises chartered by third parties and may not be used for certain customized group programs.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account balance is not redeemable for cash.

 

- Certain restrictions apply.

 

If you are having issues redeeming your Open Passages certificate perhaps your travel agent is working with one of these restricted programs.

 

Bonnie

I am assuming that as I opened this discussion, you are addressing this to me? In our case this appears not to be so. I have been in contact with Le Club Voyage as you suggested with all details of our booking, and as I previously reported on this discussion, the email I received in response clarified that we should have received the Open Passage discount:

"Thank you for your email

The open passage discount was combinable with the two promotions (Free

Air & Cruise Only GTY promotions.) Unfortunately, the free air promotion

has already finished. I am not sure why you were told that you will only get a GBP -75.00 discount."

And that's it! If you read back to my earlier posting, you will see that I tried to book this cruise using the Open Passage with three different travel agents who were informed by Azamara that it was not combinable, so I finally gave up and booked it without using the certificate. And even though in retrospect we should have had the Open Passage applied, in retrospect we have not.

[Wacktle]

Hello All,

 

There has been much discussion and debate regarding the Open Passages certificates. When you refer to the terms and conditions printed on the Open Passages certificate you will note these restrictions.

 

- A Open Passage booking may not be combinable with more than two other Onboard Credits and dollars off promotions.

 

- Converting an Open Passage account to select restricted fares is prohibited.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account cannot be used for cruises chartered by third parties and may not be used for certain customized group programs.

 

- The Azamara Open Passages account balance is not redeemable for cash.

 

- Certain restrictions apply.

 

If you are having issues redeeming your Open Passages certificate perhaps your travel agent is working with one of these restricted programs.

 

As I've said elsewhere, we considered buying an Open Passage onboard Quest two weeks ago, but decided at the last minute that the rules were unclear. I specifically asked Jesse, the Future Sales Agent onboard, what restrictions applied. She told me that basically it could be used for anything as long as the cruise wasn't so heavily discounted that it meant that Azamara were paying us to cruise. It seems that isn't actually so. The above doesn't help. What are "select restricted fares". What are the "certain restrictions"? What are the "two other Onboard Credits and dollars off promotions"? We live in the UK. At the Future Sales promotion session onboard, the brochure handed out contained a leaflet relating only to US dollar discounts. It was only on the 2nd visit to Jesse's desk (on our last day) that she gave me a leaflet relating to UK bookings. Wouldn't life be so much easier for staff and passengers if you just gave a straight discount for repeat bookings? I see that the new Viking Ocean Cruise line is doing just that.

[Glenndale]

As I've said elsewhere, we considered buying an Open Passage onboard Quest two weeks ago, but decided at the last minute that the rules were unclear.

Same here, on board Journey. We spoke to other guests from Australia and UK and heard consistent criticism of the ease of use and decided not to buy.

 

......The above doesn't help. What are "select restricted fares". What are the "certain restrictions"? What are the "two other Onboard Credits and dollars off promotions"? We live in the UK. At the Future Sales promotion session onboard, the brochure handed out contained a leaflet relating only to US dollar discounts. It was only on the 2nd visit to Jesse's desk (on our last day) that she gave me a leaflet relating to UK bookings. Wouldn't life be so much easier for staff and passengers if you just gave a straight discount for repeat bookings? I see that the new Viking Ocean Cruise line is doing just that.

 

It doesn't help either when people are told that the OPC isn't valid by Azamara agents only to be finally told "Yes, it was valid for the cruise you booked but we won't apply it retrospectively"

[procter]

Hi Bonnie,

Sorry to hear you have been stuck in meetings all week.

I remember those days but DO NOT MISS THEM!!!

It is good that you will forward this thread to Larry BUT

it might be better for the "brand" that he/you actually address Azamarites concerns re Open passage certificates.

You can see from the threads that people are not buying OPC because of perceived issues.

This means you ARE losing some guaranteed customers in the future and putting off countless others.

Additionally it was alleged UK MD was following this thread but has not deigned to acknowledge this by posting "hi".

Finally some input re Larrys boast that he did not become CEO to be CEO of a 2 ship line.

We love azamara BUT !!!!!!

[midwestchick]

Hi Bonnie,

Sorry to hear you have been stuck in meetings all week.

I remember those days but DO NOT MISS THEM!!!

It is good that you will forward this thread to Larry BUT

it might be better for the "brand" that he/you actually address Azamarites concerns re Open passage certificates.

You can see from the threads that people are not buying OPC because of perceived issues.

This means you ARE losing some guaranteed customers in the future and putting off countless others.

Additionally it was alleged UK MD was following this thread but has not deigned to acknowledge this by posting "hi".

Finally some input re Larrys boast that he did not become CEO to be CEO of a 2 ship line.

We love azamara BUT !!!!!!

 

What? Is that true? That's a frightening thought. :eek: :eek:

Edited June 1, 2014 by midwestchick

[BBMacLaird]

Hi Bonnie,

Sorry to hear you have been stuck in meetings all week.

I remember those days but DO NOT MISS THEM!!!

It is good that you will forward this thread to Larry BUT

it might be better for the "brand" that he/you actually address Azamarites concerns re Open passage certificates.

You can see from the threads that people are not buying OPC because of perceived issues.

This means you ARE losing some guaranteed customers in the future and putting off countless others.

Additionally it was alleged UK MD was following this thread but has not deigned to acknowledge this by posting "hi".

Finally some input re Larrys boast that he did not become CEO to be CEO of a 2 ship line.

We love azamara BUT !!!!!!

 

Hello Proctor,

Yes, I lived through the week of meetings, and loved every minute of it; but the air conditioned buildings in Miami did me in by the time I got home yesterday. Fear not, my voice will return!

 

Now let me address some of your comments:

Re. the Open Passage problems - this thread is not about the Open Passage Certificate issues, but he has seen those pertinent threads as well.

 

Re. your thoughts on the OPC - I'm not sure there has been a drop in purchases of OPC's, and if true, that is a future sales problem which will be researched.

 

My thoughts on the OPC - What I think needs to happen is that the discount portion of the certificate should be eliminated altogether. NOTE THIS DISCLAIMER: this is JUST MY OPINION, and I'm not in any position to affect that change. My rationale is that the dollar discount is the portion that causes problems in some markets when some certificate holders try to redeem them.

So what do you think is better, that the discount be continued but some will inevitably have problems at the market level, or the discount be discontinued, perhaps in lieu of some other benefit that doesn't impact price or the distribution network?

 

Re. why doesn't the UK office say hi on CC - it is company opinion that there should only be one voice answering all of you on the CC community. That person, for better or worse, is me.

 

Re. Larry - I am one of Larry's biggest fans, and have worked for him at now 3 cruise lines (see my first blog post "The New Girl on the Blog).

My Azamara gig is to write a weekly blog about traveling the world, and to read all of this Community's comments, good & bad. It does not include speculating on future growth plans, or any executive's words; that includes their past, present or future words.

At the top of our ACC page on CC there's a sub-forum by Larry. (hint hint)

 

Hopefully I've answered most of your concerns.

Bonnie

Edited June 1, 2014 by BBMacLaird
correcting "sticky" to "sub-forum"

[procter]

Bonnie,

Thanks for reply and hope your voice returns soon.

It is apparent from comments made on this forum that some members have not purchased these certificates because of concerns expressed here and on board ships by other passengers.

This together with uncertainties re validity and the comment that you check before booking when you have already purchased the certificate.

I accept that there may be cases where a TA (Not Azamara) puts together a package to include air and transport which may not be suitable for discount but if this is so then it must be clearer.

If you eliminate discount then not sure of the value of certificate.

My preference would be for a discount linked via Le club voyage number based on number of previous cruises.

Perhaps 1% per cruise taken with discount applied (ideally with air included but I can see problems with this.)

This rewards regular cruisers with minimal admin.

I am sure that Elbon would love this and obviously there would have to be a maximum discount. Perhaps 20%.

Hope this helps

 

Procter

[Prefdavid]

 

My thoughts on the OPC - What I think needs to happen is that the discount portion of the certificate should be eliminated altogether. NOTE THIS DISCLAIMER: this is JUST MY OPINION, and I'm not in any position to affect that change. My rationale is that the dollar discount is the portion that causes problems in some markets when some certificate holders try to redeem them.

So what do you think is better, that the discount be continued but some will inevitably have problems at the market level, or the discount be discontinued, perhaps in lieu of some other benefit that doesn't impact price or the distribution network?

 

 

Bonnie

 

Hi Bonnie

 

Pardon me for jumping in but if you really want to kill off the sales of these, then removing the incentive for purchasing an Open Passage certificate is a pretty good way to do it. If you take away the discount offered and don't replace it with anything else, then I see the only benefit is a reduced deposit and that incentive would certainly have not convinced us to purchase as we did.

 

If Azamara weren't so inclusive then an incentive like On Board credit could be beneficial but we found it difficult to spend a mere $250 OBC on our recent 15 day TA on Quest (though we did manage it ;)).

 

All I think any of us want (especially in the UK) is a very clear and definitive response that demonstrates that our Certificates will be honoured when we book an Azamara cruise whether direct or via a travel agent and if there are any problems and the T's & C's have been fully met, Azamara will sort this out, retrospectively if necessary. Simples! :)

[Panderie]

What I think needs to happen is that the discount portion of the certificate should be eliminated altogether. NOTE THIS DISCLAIMER: this is JUST MY OPINION, and I'm not in any position to affect that change. My rationale is that the dollar discount is the portion that causes problems in some markets when some certificate holders try to redeem them.

 

We have waited over a month for an official explanation for the Open Passage problems, both on this forum and by email with Azamara.

Bonnie's opinion seems to accord in spirit with the current official Azamara position on the Open Passage Certificate, and thus it apears that we have been mis-sold the Open Passage, as the specified discount (in £ sterling NOT dollars) is clearly stated in our OP documentation according to the level of stateroom booked.

Especially unhappy reading all the recent negative posts about Azamara, and hearing less than favourable reports from friends recently returned. We do hope that our cruise in August does not become our last on this line.

[BBMacLaird]

What I think needs to happen is that the discount portion of the certificate should be eliminated altogether. NOTE THIS DISCLAIMER: this is JUST MY OPINION, and I'm not in any position to affect that change. My rationale is that the dollar discount is the portion that causes problems in some markets when some certificate holders try to redeem them.

 

We have waited over a month for an official explanation for the Open Passage problems, both on this forum and by email with Azamara.

Bonnie's opinion seems to accord in spirit with the current official Azamara position on the Open Passage Certificate, and thus it apears that we have been mis-sold the Open Passage, as the specified discount (in £ sterling NOT dollars) is clearly stated in our OP documentation according to the level of stateroom booked.

Especially unhappy reading all the recent negative posts about Azamara, and hearing less than favourable reports from friends recently returned. We do hope that our cruise in August does not become our last on this line.

 

Hello Panderie, please see my Post of May 29, 2014 which is #79 on this thread. In this thread I explained the restrictions as written on the Certificate.

[nana541]

Bonnie,

 

With all due respect, wouldn't it be more helpful if you let us all know what the majority of issues the company is finding as to the reasons why so many are having trouble redeeming their Passages?

 

I think most people on this board have looked at the restrictions, and if not, they have been posted previously or a link was provided. I guess it is good that you reminded everyone of the restrictions.

 

By "two other" promotions, does that mean that passengers can pick which ones they want to use? It doesn't sound like these TA's are giving their clients options. I am not in the UK, but I know that many in Europe have bundled packages so would probably like to know if the certificates can be used with the bundled air and hotel packages?

 

Furthermore, and not mentioned, is whether "guests" are given the option to just use the Passage without the discount so they do not loose the non-refundable deposit amount. I did that with a Celebrity Passage which I used to book a Galapagos cruise two years in advance. My only advantage was that I only had to pay the lower deposit until final payment, no OBC as is usually the bonus with Celebrity Passages.

 

It would be helpful to understand better examples of what would not qualify. By restricted fares I always thought Azamara meant interline/industry rates.

 

 

Bonnie...

 

I think that the about quoted question is STILL the questions that even after reading your #79 answers it did not really clear up what has been happening??? Please carefully read and respond to the above!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[Panderie]

 

Hello Panderie, please see my Post of May 29, 2014 which is #79 on this thread. In this thread I explained the restrictions as written on the Certificate.

 

Dear Bonnie

Please refer back to my post no 82 on this thread where I responded to yours (79). Our email reply from Azamara informed us that we should have received the Open Passage Discount, but they do not know why we did not.

[Prefdavid]

In addition to that I sort of asked in #89 the following:-

 

"All I think any of us want (especially in the UK) is a very clear and definitive response that demonstrates that our Certificates will be honoured when we book an Azamara cruise whether direct or via a travel agent and if there are any problems and the T's & C's have been fully met, Azamara will sort this out, retrospectively if necessary. Simples!"

 

Appreciate it if we really could get this commitment as your post #79 doesn't give any commitment at all when things go wrong, merely a restating of the terms. I should add that when we purchased this we asked very clearly if there were any conditions where we couldn't use this and were informed NONE!

 

A verbal contract is still a contract!

Edited June 11, 2014 by Prefdavid

[Jade13]

In addition to that I sort of asked in #89 the following:-

 

"All I think any of us want (especially in the UK) is a very clear and definitive response that demonstrates that our Certificates will be honoured when we book an Azamara cruise whether direct or via a travel agent and if there are any problems and the T's & C's have been fully met, Azamara will sort this out, retrospectively if necessary. Simples!"

 

Appreciate it if we really could get this commitment as your post #79 doesn't give any commitment at all when things go wrong, merely a restating of the terms. I should add that when we purchased this we asked very clearly if there were any conditions where we couldn't use this and were informed NONE!

 

A verbal contract is still a contract!

 

It is very obvious that some Passages are not being honored because of some type of discounted fare, but how would any consumer know that if they are not a TA or using an interline/industry rate.

 

I haven't had a problem (yet), but my biggest issue with Azamara is the fact that they do not understand that they have a communication issue with their guests regarding these Passages. I don't know what the big secret is. These fares much be coded somehow and/or part of specific promotions, number of promotions, or bundled packages. Why can't they spell it out. Then the consumer has the option to take the agents fare/promotion or opt for another one where they can use the Passage.

 

They should also have an option in place where one can use the deposit associated with the Passage just so they don't loose it regardless of whether they do not end up with any benefit. I have done this with Celebrity, where I used the Passage but did not get the discount (in the case of Celebrity that would have been OBC which you cannot get on Xpedition in Galapagos).

[English Tim]

I don't buy these certificates as I don't trust the shoreside operations.

[nana541]

Have been following this thread for a very long time as DH wants to sail with Azamara. One of the things I am noticing about this whole issue (other than the total disconnect in customer service) is that this cruise line continued (and continues) to sell these certificates to a seemingly whole group of passengers (UK) that typically buy Holiday packages and this group is still allowed to buy certificates even though it is unlikely they will ever be permitted to use them?

 

Am I understanding this correctly? So I am walking away from this cruise line due to worse than normal customer service coming out of Guatemala of all places. How can a CSR even comprehend taking a cruise, when they are or have never been on a cruise ship and are 1000's of miles away.... This cruiser is turned off by this whole .... Customer service disaster!

 

Taking my marbles and going back to Regent to play .... Safe travels all!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

Edited June 11, 2014 by nana541

[BBMacLaird]

Hi Nana541, I'm truly sorry if we've lost you because of this issue. I hope you'll come back to Azamara some day.

 

I wish there were a simple solution. I have seen a flurry of inter-office emails on this topic. Please know it is under discussion.

 

And for all of you who are wishing for a more thorough answer, I asked those above me for better wording to share with you using a specific booking that had a problem using the Open Passage. Perhaps this will serve as one example?

 

"The Azamara Open Passages program is combinable with promotions and programs offered by Azamara Club Cruises, with very few exceptions, such as industry rates and employee rates.

The Open Passages Certificates are also not combinable with certain third party travel agent offers or programs. This specific booking was made by a travel agency using such a program referred to as a Net Rate Program. This program allows a travel agency to create additional value to their clients by creating packaged vacations including other non-cruise components such as air, hotel, transfers, etc., not booked through Azamara Club Cruises.

Bookings made using such programs are not combinable with the Azamara Open Passages or any other discount or program offered by Azamara Club Cruises."

 

 

[BBMacLaird]

"The UK office is aware that there are issues with information regarding Open Passages.

The only way to resolve this is for each person to share their issue with Azamara UK, and the best way to do this is for each person to email myself directly at RTwynam@AzamaraClubCruises.com and I will personally ensure we resolve each issue.

Thank you for your understanding and time, Richard Twynam." (June 11, 2014)

[Panderie]

Hi Nana541, I'm truly sorry if we've lost you because of this issue. I hope you'll come back to Azamara some day.

 

I wish there were a simple solution. I have seen a flurry of inter-office emails on this topic. Please know it is under discussion.

 

And for all of you who are wishing for a more thorough answer, I asked those above me for better wording to share with you using a specific booking that had a problem using the Open Passage. Perhaps this will serve as one example?

 

"The Azamara Open Passages program is combinable with promotions and programs offered by Azamara Club Cruises, with very few exceptions, such as industry rates and employee rates.

The Open Passages Certificates are also not combinable with certain third party travel agent offers or programs. This specific booking was made by a travel agency using such a program referred to as a Net Rate Program. This program allows a travel agency to create additional value to their clients by creating packaged vacations including other non-cruise components such as air, hotel, transfers, etc., not booked through Azamara Club Cruises.

Bookings made using such programs are not combinable with the Azamara Open Passages or any other discount or program offered by Azamara Club Cruises."

 

 

Perhaps this might serve as one example as you say. But this is not the example in our case, and we are still awaiting a positive and helpful response.